Annulment process? (Catholics)

[heartlikealion]

I've read a mix of info online. Would rather hear from someone that has gone through it/going through it/knows someone that went through it. How long did it actually take? 

I can't start the process til after my legal divorce is complete and that process is taking forever. In fact, there was talk about a settlement but I honestly don't think we'd agree on something now if we couldn't a year ago. So I am anticipating court at the end of May. My priest basically said talk to him after the legal stuff is complete. 

I do realize this does not affect my ability to receive Communion. However, I may one day want to date or remarry. I read anywhere from 4-16 months for the process. What has been your experience/knowledge of this? 

[klmama]

I worked with a woman whose marriage was annulled.  It took about 9 months.  

[City Mouse]

The only person I know who went through the annulment process was 17 when she got married so hers was way but still took many months

[scholastica]

There should be a tribunal in your diocese. Most likely your priest will put you in contact with them when you do talk again. I would see if you can contact them directly.

[heartlikealion]

Just now, scholastica said:

There should be a tribunal in your diocese. Most likely your priest will put you in contact with them when you do talk again. I would see if you can contact them directly.

Yeah I read about that but I don’t think I’m supposed to contact them yet? 

This process is such a turn off, I can see why someone might just not do it. Just like accept being single forever lol but I don't want to limit myself because you never know. 

[catz]

2 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Yeah I read about that but I don’t think I’m supposed to contact them yet? 

This process is such a turn off, I can see why someone might just not do it. Just like accept being single forever lol but I don't want to limit myself because you never know. 

Well, this is basically why my husband and I aren't catholic anymore.  He had a young marriage and was divorced.  Process was too daunting and felt like paying off the church for a clean slate.  Have a friend who was really hurt during the process as a child when her parents went through annulment and chose not to have kids as a result.   So if you do it, I'd be careful how it is presented to your kids.  

[heartlikealion]

2 minutes ago, catz said:

Well, this is basically why my husband and I aren't catholic anymore.  He had a young marriage and was divorced.  Process was too daunting and felt like paying off the church for a clean slate.  Have a friend who was really hurt during the process as a child when her parents went through annulment and chose not to have kids as a result.   So if you do it, I'd be careful how it is presented to your kids.  

Oh my gosh I hadn’t even thought about a conversation with the kids. But they do know mommy still wears her wedding ring because we are still married (dh stopped wearing his years ago because he claims it bothered him to wear things on his hands. He also stopped wearing a watch so there’s probably some truth to it). 

[heartlikealion]

7 minutes ago, catz said:

Well, this is basically why my husband and I aren't catholic anymore.  He had a young marriage and was divorced.  Process was too daunting and felt like paying off the church for a clean slate.  Have a friend who was really hurt during the process as a child when her parents went through annulment and chose not to have kids as a result.   So if you do it, I'd be careful how it is presented to your kids.  

If I may ask, what did the friend think as a child? They weren’t questioned for paperwork, were they? 

I know it doesn’t affect the Church’s stance in the “legitimacy” of the child. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by heartlikealion

[catz]

2 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

If I may ask, what did the friend think as a child? They weren’t questioned for paperwork, were they? 

I know it doesn’t affect the Church’s stance in the “legitimacy” of the child. 

She was really hurt that her father no longer considered his marriage that resulted in 2 children and was a number of years long to her mother non-existent.  He went on to have a very over the top Catholic wedding to another woman who was also divorced/annulled.  It was multi faceted in her case, she never had a great relationship with her father after than and there was tension between parents that wasn't well handled in sight of the kids.  But she left the Catholic church as well over it.  Even though the church tried to emphasize children are still legitimate she struggled with resolving that since it also says a legal marriage never occurred.  I think she was middle school age when they divorced which is a hard age anyway.  

[heartlikealion]

3 minutes ago, catz said:

She was really hurt that her father no longer considered his marriage that resulted in 2 children and was a number of years long to her mother non-existent.  He went on to have a very over the top Catholic wedding to another woman who was also divorced/annulled.  It was multi faceted in her case, she never had a great relationship with her father after than and there was tension between parents that wasn't well handled in sight of the kids.  But she left the Catholic church as well over it.  Even though the church tried to emphasize children are still legitimate she struggled with resolving that since it also says a legal marriage never occurred.  I think she was middle school age when they divorced which is a hard age anyway.  

Oh man. That sounds rough. 

I’m already seeing struggles with my family and the Church. Dd doesn’t want to attend Sunday school but will need to do First Communion prep next year. Ds (teen now) doesn’t agree with stuff and thinks baptizing and raising someone in your faith is kinda wrong/pushing them into it. Dh was never Catholic but had to agree to them being raised Catholic when we married. He takes them to church on the weekends he has them. 

[Bootsie]

39 minutes ago, catz said:

She was really hurt that her father no longer considered his marriage that resulted in 2 children and was a number of years long to her mother non-existent.  He went on to have a very over the top Catholic wedding to another woman who was also divorced/annulled.  It was multi faceted in her case, she never had a great relationship with her father after than and there was tension between parents that wasn't well handled in sight of the kids.  But she left the Catholic church as well over it.  Even though the church tried to emphasize children are still legitimate she struggled with resolving that since it also says a legal marriage never occurred.  I think she was middle school age when they divorced which is a hard age anyway.  

How does an annulment by the Catholic church that says a Christian, Catholic sacramental marriage did not take place say that  legal marriage never occurred?  

Edited February 21, 2022 by Bootsie

[heartlikealion]

I think she meant to use another word?? Like that the church sees it as no “real” marriage occurred. 

Not sure, though. 
 

 

[ktgrok]

It was about 8 months I think, for me. But, supposedly it is faster now. Also free now, where before it was a few hundred dollars. (unless you couldn't afford it of course)

Basically I filled out a form with a bunch of questions and met with someone that handles these. Forms were also sent to my ex (who didn't fill it out) and to two witnesses who knew us at the time we got married (those people did fill them out). I THINK only one diocese has to sign off on it now, when I did it it took two which made the process take twice as long. 

[Frances]

57 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Oh man. That sounds rough. 

I’m already seeing struggles with my family and the Church. Dd doesn’t want to attend Sunday school but will need to do First Communion prep next year. Ds (teen now) doesn’t agree with stuff and thinks baptizing and raising someone in your faith is kinda wrong/pushing them into it. Dh was never Catholic but had to agree to them being raised Catholic when we married. He takes them to church on the weekends he has them. 

I would encourage you to listen to your son before he is placed in confirmation classes. My young adult niece just shared me with me that one of many reasons she left the Catholic Church is because no one, including her parents, listened to her when she said she didn’t want to be confirmed because she was questioning her faith, Catholicism, etc.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Frances

[heartlikealion]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

I would encourage you to listen to your son before he is placed in confirmation classes. My young adult niece just shared me with me that one of many reasons she left the Catholic Church is because no one, including her parents, listened to her when she said she didn’t want to be confirmed because she was questioning her faith, Catholicism, etc.

I have already told him he’ll have a choice to be confirmed or not. They do that in 11th grade. He’s in 8th grade now and currently only doing online Catholic Sunday school. I’m actually debating about forcing him to go in person for the youth group experience (class/youth group meets Sun evenings). But so far it’s been a hard no because a) we thought dd would be doing Sunday school in person by now (they offer it Sun morning but with Covid and unmasked kids we’ve hesitated) and we didn’t want to drive 45 min twice Sunday b) ds refuses all interaction like this we suggest (but clearly needs friends). 

I told him honestly before that confirmation will be his decision and when I was a teen one of my peers didn’t get confirmed.  

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

the process is such a turn off, I can see why someone might just not do it. Just like accept being single forever lol but I don't want to limit myself because you never know. 

Honestly, the process was really healing. It is sort of like therapy - scary to start, and sometimes painful, but healing in the end. Also, if there is ANY chance you may remarry do the annulment sooner rather than later, as you need witnesses and it can be harder to find people that knew you back then if you wait too long. Or they won't remember stuff, etc. 

1 hour ago, catz said:

Well, this is basically why my husband and I aren't catholic anymore.  He had a young marriage and was divorced.  Process was too daunting and felt like paying off the church for a clean slate.  Have a friend who was really hurt during the process as a child when her parents went through annulment and chose not to have kids as a result.   So if you do it, I'd be careful how it is presented to your kids.  

They have changed the process in the last few years for this reason - to make it much quicker and it is now also totally free. 

1 hour ago, catz said:

She was really hurt that her father no longer considered his marriage that resulted in 2 children and was a number of years long to her mother non-existent.  He went on to have a very over the top Catholic wedding to another woman who was also divorced/annulled.  It was multi faceted in her case, she never had a great relationship with her father after than and there was tension between parents that wasn't well handled in sight of the kids.  But she left the Catholic church as well over it.  Even though the church tried to emphasize children are still legitimate she struggled with resolving that since it also says a legal marriage never occurred.  I think she was middle school age when they divorced which is a hard age anyway.  

Just clarifying for anyone reading - the bolded is not true. It does NOT say that there was no legal marriage. It says that the marriage was not sacramental. So for instance, if two athiests marry each other, the RCC would not consider their marriage ceremony to be a Christian Sacrament, but of course would acknowledge that they were legally married. 

The annulment is only about the sacramental nature of the marriage. It states that the marriage - which did take place - was lacking something that is required for it to be considered a sacrament. Either true consent, knowledge, form, etc. In my case, I felt very pressured by society to get married because I was pregnant (I was actually planning to break up with him when I found out I was pregnant), and that pressure takes away the true ability to consent in the eyes of the church (they actually now don't marry people until after the baby is born as a general rule, for this reason). AND my ex had serious mental health problems that were ongoing and clouded his ability to make any kind of commitment. We were married less than 2 months after I got the positive test, it was a horrid idea, and I never should have done it. That's a very common scenario/reason for annulment. 

But annulment did not change that we were legally married, just acknowledged that it was a truly sacramental marriage as is intended. 

[heartlikealion]

10 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

It was about 8 months I think, for me. But, supposedly it is faster now. Also free now, where before it was a few hundred dollars. (unless you couldn't afford it of course)

Basically I filled out a form with a bunch of questions and met with someone that handles these. Forms were also sent to my ex (who didn't fill it out) and to two witnesses who knew us at the time we got married (those people did fill them out). I THINK only one diocese has to sign off on it now, when I did it it took two which made the process take twice as long. 

Last time I googled it (like a week ago?) it still said there’s a fee. Like a couple hundred dollars. I’ll come up with the moves if I need to though. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

Last time I googled it (like a week ago?) it still said there’s a fee. Like a couple hundred dollars. I’ll come up with the moves if I need to though. 

Ok, just looked. Seems Pope Francis asked dioceses to make it free if at all possible, but some may, if they need to, ask for money to cover costs or for a donation. But that should be able to be paid over time (I made monthly payments) and can be waived if it is a financial hardship. It should NEVER be a reason not to get an annulment - in fact pretty sure I didn't pay the full fee, they asked what I could pay. 

My now DH was fairly annoyed (in a funny way) when shortly after we made the last payment the Pope announced the change. 

[ktgrok]

This is the info from 2015 when changes were made https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/09/world/europe/pope-francis-marriage-annulment-reforms.html

[catz]

I admit I was running to a zoom session when I responded.  I definitely did not mean legal in the US law sense of the word. Sorry about that.  

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Honestly, the process was really healing. It is sort of like therapy - scary to start, and sometimes painful, but healing in the end. Also, if there is ANY chance you may remarry do the annulment sooner rather than later, as you need witnesses and it can be harder to find people that knew you back then if you wait too long. Or they won't remember stuff, etc. 

They have changed the process in the last few years for this reason - to make it much quicker and it is now also totally free. 

Just clarifying for anyone reading - the bolded is not true. It does NOT say that there was no legal marriage. It says that the marriage was not sacramental. So for instance, if two athiests marry each other, the RCC would not consider their marriage ceremony to be a Christian Sacrament, but of course would acknowledge that they were legally married. 

The annulment is only about the sacramental nature of the marriage. It states that the marriage - which did take place - was lacking something that is required for it to be considered a sacrament. Either true consent, knowledge, form, etc. In my case, I felt very pressured by society to get married because I was pregnant (I was actually planning to break up with him when I found out I was pregnant), and that pressure takes away the true ability to consent in the eyes of the church (they actually now don't marry people until after the baby is born as a general rule, for this reason). AND my ex had serious mental health problems that were ongoing and clouded his ability to make any kind of commitment. We were married less than 2 months after I got the positive test, it was a horrid idea, and I never should have done it. That's a very common scenario/reason for annulment. 

But annulment did not change that we were legally married, just acknowledged that it was a truly sacramental marriage as is intended. 

I was pregnant when I got married. It was unplanned. Dh had bought the engagement ring unbeknownst to me before I knew I was pregnant. He had hidden it and planned to propose soon. Then I found out I was pregnant. He may have thought he was ready but I wasn’t. I felt an immense amount of pressure to get married though I did love him. Everyone at work (super conservative area) knew as my pregnancy started to show and I told early on because I wanted to limit my exposure to the fumes in the press area (I worked at a newspaper and we printed in house). We attended a Catholic Engagement encounter and I felt like I may have seen a red flag but in my mind all I could think was “we’ve already mailed the wedding invitations.” And “my son will not be considered a bastard.” Sigh. 

I really wanted to make the marriage work despite all that. Ultimately he’s the one that served me and this long after we’d attended Retrouvaille and tried some counseling. 

[heartlikealion]

10 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Last time I googled it (like a week ago?) it still said there’s a fee. Like a couple hundred dollars. I’ll come up with the moves if I need to though. 

Moves? Money. 
dancing for payment 😂

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I was pregnant when I got married. It was unplanned. Dh had bought the engagement ring unbeknownst to me before I knew I was pregnant. He had hidden it and planned to propose soon. Then I found out I was pregnant. He may have thought he was ready but I wasn’t. I felt an immense amount of pressure to get married though I did love him. Everyone at work (super conservative area) knew as my pregnancy started to show and I told early on because I wanted to limit my exposure to the fumes in the press area (I worked at a newspaper and we printed in house). We attended a Catholic Engagement encounter and I felt like I may have seen a red flag but in my mind all I could think was “we’ve already mailed the wedding invitations.” And “my son will not be considered a bastard.” Sigh. 

I really wanted to make the marriage work despite all that. Ultimately he’s the one that served me and this long after we’d attended Retrouvaille and tried some counseling. 

Yup. It's so common it's cliche. 

And to clarify to anyone else, they are not saying that pregnancy means you should NOT get married, ever. They mean that you can't REALLY make a clear decision with full consent when you have the pressure weighing on you. You may regret it later, and you are likely to overlook red flags in the rush to get married before baby is born. If you are pressured, it's not true consent. Just like with sex - if you feel coerced, it's not truly consent. 

[Frances]

23 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Honestly, the process was really healing. It is sort of like therapy - scary to start, and sometimes painful, but healing in the end. Also, if there is ANY chance you may remarry do the annulment sooner rather than later, as you need witnesses and it can be harder to find people that knew you back then if you wait too long. Or they won't remember stuff, etc. 

They have changed the process in the last few years for this reason - to make it much quicker and it is now also totally free. 

Just clarifying for anyone reading - the bolded is not true. It does NOT say that there was no legal marriage. It says that the marriage was not sacramental. So for instance, if two athiests marry each other, the RCC would not consider their marriage ceremony to be a Christian Sacrament, but of course would acknowledge that they were legally married. 

The annulment is only about the sacramental nature of the marriage. It states that the marriage - which did take place - was lacking something that is required for it to be considered a sacrament. Either true consent, knowledge, form, etc. In my case, I felt very pressured by society to get married because I was pregnant (I was actually planning to break up with him when I found out I was pregnant), and that pressure takes away the true ability to consent in the eyes of the church (they actually now don't marry people until after the baby is born as a general rule, for this reason). AND my ex had serious mental health problems that were ongoing and clouded his ability to make any kind of commitment. We were married less than 2 months after I got the positive test, it was a horrid idea, and I never should have done it. That's a very common scenario/reason for annulment. 

But annulment did not change that we were legally married, just acknowledged that it was a truly sacramental marriage as is intended. 

I think this is a great explanation and how as a former Catholic, I always understood it. Does you son know that you got an annulment based partially on being pregnant with him when you married? I know it was an unpleasant shock when one of my nieces figured out (I was there) that her mom was pregnant with her when her parents married, as the marriage did not end well. So it would seem to be a delicate situation to navigate with one’s child.

[heartlikealion]

6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Yup. It's so common it's cliche. 

And to clarify to anyone else, they are not saying that pregnancy means you should NOT get married, ever. They mean that you can't REALLY make a clear decision with full consent when you have the pressure weighing on you. You may regret it later, and you are likely to overlook red flags in the rush to get married before baby is born. If you are pressured, it's not true consent. Just like with sex - if you feel coerced, it's not truly consent. 

They were more worried that dh was pressured. The priest basically asked him your arm wasn’t twisted, right? (by my parents etc). 

For those that don’t know, my mother, who was a very mysterious woman in a way, was a religious sister (not in a convent) and nun (in a convent) prior to meeting my father. She explained to me why she left. There was nothing scandalous or anything. Most people didn’t know that about her as she didn’t share it but it’s in her obituary so I sometimes mention it. My father is very religious. Definitely raised in a strict, Catholic home. 

[heartlikealion]

20 minutes ago, Frances said:

I think this is a great explanation and how as a former Catholic, I always understood it. Does you son know that you got an annulment based partially on being pregnant with him when you married? I know it was an unpleasant shock when one of my nieces figured out (I was there) that her mom was pregnant with her when her parents married, as the marriage did not end well. So it would seem to be a delicate situation to navigate with one’s child.

Those seem like 2 different things. One, the realization that a child was formed out of wedlock and two, that annulment related back to the pregnancy. 

I think my son already knows he was formed outside of marriage. It’s sorta been referenced (by dad or a photo). I looked back at wedding photos and laughed that I was delusional enough to think “maybe the guests can’t tell.” I was huge lol 

[Frances]

30 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Those seem like 2 different things. One, the realization that a child was formed out of wedlock and two, that annulment related back to the pregnancy. 

I think my son already knows he was formed outside of marriage. It’s sorta been referenced (by dad or a photo). I looked back at wedding photos and laughed that I was delusional enough to think “maybe the guests can’t tell.” I was huge lol 

For my niece, she knew the strong Catholic beliefs of her grandparents (had lived with them for several years) and so understood the pressure my sister would have felt to marry. And the marriage ended very badly when she was eight. She realized as a teen her mom was pregnant and immediately tied that to the unhappy marriage.

[Shoeless]

3 hours ago, catz said:

She was really hurt that her father no longer considered his marriage that resulted in 2 children and was a number of years long to her mother non-existent.  He went on to have a very over the top Catholic wedding to another woman who was also divorced/annulled.  It was multi faceted in her case, she never had a great relationship with her father after than and there was tension between parents that wasn't well handled in sight of the kids.  But she left the Catholic church as well over it.  Even though the church tried to emphasize children are still legitimate she struggled with resolving that since it also says a legal marriage never occurred.  I think she was middle school age when they divorced which is a hard age anyway.  

My father pursued an annulment from my mother 30+ years after their divorce.  The entire process was handled poorly and is why I no longer consider myself Catholic. 

[scholastica]

@heartlikealion Are you familiar with Rose Sweet’s ministry to divorces Catholics? She is so kind and gentle and has been through it herself. She also accompanies people through the process. Praying for you. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Frances said:

I think this is a great explanation and how as a former Catholic, I always understood it. Does you son know that you got an annulment based partially on being pregnant with him when you married? I know it was an unpleasant shock when one of my nieces figured out (I was there) that her mom was pregnant with her when her parents married, as the marriage did not end well. So it would seem to be a delicate situation to navigate with one’s child.

You know, it's sort of talked around, but not something he and I discussed at length. We did discuss what an annulment meant, and he didn't care. His dad didn't care either - he didn't refuse t fill out the paperwork so much as he never got around to bothering. He was buddhist, and DS was an agnostic by then, so neither believed in marriage as a Sacrament anyway, so it made zero difference to them. We'd already been divorced for a long  while by that point. 

I suppose my adivce to do it sooner rather than later should be modified by a "unless it will further traumatize the kids". Maybe it WAS better my son got to process the divorce separately. By the time I got the annulment it was not a thing to him. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

My father pursued an annulment from my mother 30+ years after their divorce.  The entire process was handled poorly and is why I no longer consider myself Catholic. 

I'm so sorry - as much as my process was both smooth and healing for me, I can definitely picture it being damaging if handled badly. Sort of like how the divorce itself was, for me, a good thing, but a messy divorce can be terrible. 

[heartlikealion]

2 hours ago, scholastica said:

@heartlikealion Are you familiar with Rose Sweet’s ministry to divorces Catholics? She is so kind and gentle and has been through it herself. She also accompanies people through the process. Praying for you. 

No, I am not. I’ll look it up. Thank you. 

[historically accurate]

3 hours ago, MissLemon said:

My father pursued an annulment from my mother 30+ years after their divorce.  The entire process was handled poorly and is why I no longer consider myself Catholic. 

How his mother's divorce/annulment was handled within the church is one of the main reasons my uncle is no longer Catholic. It was a while ago though, and it sounds like the process may have changed somewhat. 

[heartlikealion]

What went wrong with these annulments (feel free to be vague or not answer at all)? 

@ktgrok thank you for pointing out the timeline to consider with witnesses involved. 

[Shoeless]

1 minute ago, historically accurate said:

How his mother's divorce/annulment was handled within the church is one of the main reasons my uncle is no longer Catholic. It was a while ago though, and it sounds like the process may have changed somewhat. 

My father had his marriage to my mother annulled about 10 or 11 years ago. The process was similar to what Katie described: there was paperwork my dad filled out, paperwork sent to my mom (she declined to fill it out), and then paperwork sent to two "witnesses" from the time of the marriage.  Write a check, wait a few months, and voila. You are clean and free to have a fancy Catholic ceremony in the church. 

[historically accurate]

13 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

What went wrong with these annulments (feel free to be vague or not answer at all)? 

@ktgrok thank you for pointing out the timeline to consider with witnesses involved. 

I've only heard bits and pieces over the years.

In the case I know of, husband was abusive and abandoned her with 5 (6?) little kids. She finally was able to obtain a divorce (he left her with $0 and no job so it took a while to afford that), but she couldn't ever scrape up the money to pay for an annulment. When she passed, the children wanted to bury her with family in Catholic cemetery, but the church said no because she hadn't ever gotten the annulment. I don't recall where she ended up buried. 

[Shoeless]

20 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

What went wrong with these annulments (feel free to be vague or not answer at all)? 

@ktgrok thank you for pointing out the timeline to consider with witnesses involved. 

It felt like a church-sanctioned lie.  

My parents were married, twice: once in a civil ceremony, and again in the Catholic church about a year later.  There was no pressure or deceit in their decision to marry in the church. They'd lived as legally married people for a year and then had a religious ceremony after my mom became pregnant a year into the marriage.  It wasn't rushed, it wasn't under duress, it wasn't ill informed, no one was abusive or mentally ill. 

It felt like a big slap in the face that decades later, my father suddenly decided that his first marriage wasn't the marriage and family that god wanted him to have.  He lied and said he never loved my mother, and that was his grounds for annulment.  The church said okie dokie, his check cleared, and he got what he wanted.  Or more to the point, my stepmother got what she wanted, which was to further underscore her position that I was NOT family.  The "real" family was the one that god wanted him to have, and those were the children that came from the marriage blessed by the church. 

But his check cleared the bishop's office, so it's all good...  😠

 

eta: Now I'm not sure if I was answering the question you asked, heartlikealion.  

Edited February 22, 2022 by MissLemon

[teachermom2834]

I don’t have much experience with this but I guess I would mention to choose your witnesses carefully. I know someone that held up an annulment for years just dragging his feet filling out the paperwork. This person was against the whole thing and against the remarriage that was in the works and just kind of gummed up the process for the couple waiting for the annulment. He did it eventually but he made it more difficult than it had to be 😕

 

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, historically accurate said:

I've only heard bits and pieces over the years.

In the case I know of, husband was abusive and abandoned her with 5 (6?) little kids. She finally was able to obtain a divorce (he left her with $0 and no job so it took a while to afford that), but she couldn't ever scrape up the money to pay for an annulment. When she passed, the children wanted to bury her with family in Catholic cemetery, but the church said no because she hadn't ever gotten the annulment. I don't recall where she ended up buried. 

This seems crazy and not even in line with the impression I have of Catholic rules. If she hadn’t been dating (which would have been viewed as adultery) after the legal divorce, why would she be stopped from receiving Catholic things? 

My aunt is divorced and never bothered with the annulment and has remained single and a practicing Catholic. 

I’m not following. 

[heartlikealion]

4 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

It felt like a church-sanctioned lie.  

My parents were married, twice: once in a civil ceremony, and again in the Catholic church about a year later.  There was no pressure or deceit in their decision to marry in the church. They'd lived as legally married people for a year and then had a religious ceremony after my mom became pregnant a year into the marriage.  It wasn't rushed, it wasn't under duress, it wasn't ill informed, no one was abusive or mentally ill. 

It felt like a big slap in the face that decades later, my father suddenly decided that his first marriage wasn't the marriage and family that god wanted him to have.  He lied and said he never loved my mother, and that was his grounds for annulment.  The church said okie dokie, his check cleared, and he got what he wanted.  Or more to the point, my stepmother got what she wanted, which was to further underscore her position that I was NOT family.  The "real" family was the one that god wanted him to have, and those were the children that came from the marriage blessed by the church. 

But his check cleared the bishop's office, so it's all good...  😠

 

eta: Now I'm not sure if I was answering the question you asked, heartlikealion.  

It sounds like it was motivated by a pregnancy though so I’m wondering if he used that (assuming you didn’t see the actual documents; not sure if he listed mult. things). 

Yeah the whole annulment process doesn’t sit well with me. I’d rather them say ok we won’t hold this against you (you can stay in good standing) but we won’t say it never happened. 
The church doesn’t deny that a relationship existed but they do erase a marriage and I think that’s hard. 

[historically accurate]

13 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

This seems crazy and not even in line with the impression I have of Catholic rules. If she hadn’t been dating (which would have been viewed as adultery) after the legal divorce, why would she be stopped from receiving Catholic things? 

My aunt is divorced and never bothered with the annulment and has remained single and a practicing Catholic. 

I’m not following. 

She was a practicing Catholic, but she couldn't be buried in the cemetery. As I said, I don't know how it ended up.

[heartlikealion]

14 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

I don’t have much experience with this but I guess I would mention to choose your witnesses carefully. I know someone that held up an annulment for years just dragging his feet filling out the paperwork. This person was against the whole thing and against the remarriage that was in the works and just kind of gummed up the process for the couple waiting for the annulment. He did it eventually but he made it more difficult than it had to be 😕

 

Can someone tell me the role of the witnesses? Like how well did they need to know you? Can they be family? Hoe much do they need to answer. 

[Shoeless]

3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

It sounds like it was motivated by a pregnancy though so I’m wondering if he used that (assuming you didn’t see the actual documents; not sure if he listed mult. things). 

Yeah the whole annulment process doesn’t sit well with me. I’d rather them say ok we won’t hold this against you (you can stay in good standing) but we won’t say it never happened. 
The church doesn’t deny that a relationship existed but they do erase a marriage and I think that’s hard. 

I didn't see the paperwork; I just know what my mom told me he put down, and that pregnancy wasn't one of his reasons. She said she was surprised and he didn't use the pregnancy as his reason, that he settled on "I didn't really love her".  She was ticked about it, like, really? After all this time, this is what you're going with? Why do this, all these years later?

She'd offered him an annulment in the 70's when he was marrying my stepmother, but he declined it because he didn't like the sort of in-between space it left me.  And because it was basically lying.  Guess he got over that!

[ktgrok]

21 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

I've only heard bits and pieces over the years.

In the case I know of, husband was abusive and abandoned her with 5 (6?) little kids. She finally was able to obtain a divorce (he left her with $0 and no job so it took a while to afford that), but she couldn't ever scrape up the money to pay for an annulment. When she passed, the children wanted to bury her with family in Catholic cemetery, but the church said no because she hadn't ever gotten the annulment. I don't recall where she ended up buried. 

 

20 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

It felt like a church-sanctioned lie.  

My parents were married, twice: once in a civil ceremony, and again in the Catholic church about a year later.  There was no pressure or deceit in their decision to marry in the church. They'd lived as legally married people for a year and then had a religious ceremony after my mom became pregnant a year into the marriage.  It wasn't rushed, it wasn't under duress, it wasn't ill informed, no one was abusive or mentally ill. 

It felt like a big slap in the face that decades later, my father suddenly decided that his first marriage wasn't the marriage and family that god wanted him to have.  He lied and said he never loved my mother, and that was his grounds for annulment.  The church said okie dokie, his check cleared, and he got what he wanted.  Or more to the point, my stepmother got what she wanted, which was to further underscore her position that I was NOT family.  The "real" family was the one that god wanted him to have, and those were the children that came from the marriage blessed by the church. 

But his check cleared the bishop's office, so it's all good...  😠

 

eta: Now I'm not sure if I was answering the question you asked, heartlikealion.  

That's terrible, I'm sorry! 

3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Can someone tell me the role of the witnesses? Like how well did they need to know you? Can they be family? Hoe much do they need to answer. 

They ask them how well they knew you, what they knew of your marriage, if there were problems at the time of the marriage, etc etc. Yes, it can be family. I'd planned to have my mom fill it out, but she was not nice about the whole thing (she is not Catholic) and despite having warned me not to marry him, that he wasn't stable enough to be a husband, she didn't want any part of it. So I asked some friends of mine that knew us then. 

[heartlikealion]

4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

That's terrible, I'm sorry! 

They ask them how well they knew you, what they knew of your marriage, if there were problems at the time of the marriage, etc etc. Yes, it can be family. I'd planned to have my mom fill it out, but she was not nice about the whole thing (she is not Catholic) and despite having warned me not to marry him, that he wasn't stable enough to be a husband, she didn't want any part of it. So I asked some friends of mine that knew us then. 

Oh ok. I may need my dad and one other person. I never told my mom about the pending divorce. It happened just before she passed away but she maybe sensed it. She knew about my pregnancy before I told her. Like a 6th sense. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by heartlikealion

[scholastica]

2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

My father had his marriage to my mother annulled about 10 or 11 years ago. The process was similar to what Katie described: there was paperwork my dad filled out, paperwork sent to my mom (she declined to fill it out), and then paperwork sent to two "witnesses" from the time of the marriage.  Write a check, wait a few months, and voila. You are clean and free to have a fancy Catholic ceremony in the church. 

It doesn’t always work that way. A friend of mine’s annulment was just denied. Her ex was livid because he wants to get remarried.

[scholastica]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

It sounds like it was motivated by a pregnancy though so I’m wondering if he used that (assuming you didn’t see the actual documents; not sure if he listed mult. things). 

Yeah the whole annulment process doesn’t sit well with me. I’d rather them say ok we won’t hold this against you (you can stay in good standing) but we won’t say it never happened. 
The church doesn’t deny that a relationship existed but they do erase a marriage and I think that’s hard. 

It does not erase a marriage. It’s technically called a Declaration of Nullity. It’s a statement of the fact that there was an impediment that prevented a sacramental bond being formed. 

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, scholastica said:

It doesn’t always work that way. A friend of mine’s annulment was just denied. Her ex was livid because he wants to get remarried.

was he shocked or was he iffy about the thing being denied before he got the response? I cannot imagine! I guess that's another reason for me to start now. 

I've also binge watched 90 day fiancée and see people getting denied hope of being with their loved one because of visa issues etc. It's awful. 

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, scholastica said:

It does not erase a marriage. It’s technically called a Declaration of Nullity. It’s a statement of the fact that there was an impediment that prevented a sacramental bond being formed. 

Thank you. 

[scholastica]

 

1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

was he shocked or was he iffy about the thing being denied before he got the response? I cannot imagine! I guess that's another reason for me to start now. 

I've also binge watched 90 day fiancée and see people getting denied hope of being with their loved one because of visa issues etc. It's awful. 

I don’t know what he thought was going to happen. I just know he was angry. I guess he expected it to be declared null.