High school courses - STEM Track

[Allthebest]

Cross-post:

My dd will be entering 9th grade this fall and would like to major in mathematics with aim of taking Calculus BC by 12th grade. We are thinking about options to accelerate dd to achieve this goal (summer classes, additional course during school year, I.e. algebra 2 alongside geometry).  Below are courses for the fall:

1- World History advanced (wants to also self study to take AP World exam starting this summer) 

2- Honors Geometry (will take enrichment classes/self study to deepen understanding) 

3- Biology regents (is this necessary or is self study for AP biology exam advisable? Or is physics first a better option?)

4- English 9 honors (literature and language studies). Not strongest subject so will need additional support 

5-PROJECT LEAD THE WAY (PLTW): Introduction to Engineering Design 

Dd would also like to self study for the AP computer science or computer science principles exam and take the PSAT.  
 

any advice would be appreciated in coming up with a more comprehensive plan/accelerated course load? 
 

thank you! 

[Lilaclady]

I think one of the best things you can do is go through lots of the threads already posted about planning for high school- there are 2 motherlode threads by Lori that are very helpful. 
secondly, she is already on a good start if she has taken algebra 1 in middle school. She should be able to get to calculus BC by 12th grade. The common progression - not necessarily what you have to do- is algebra 1, geometry, algebra2, precalc and calc so she is on the right track no need to double up unless she wants to.

if she has not taken an AP course before, I will suggest only doing 1 or 2 at first for get a feel for it. It is a college course and can be overwhelming so you don’t want to load up and do AP world history- which requires a lot of reading, with AP biology and AP computer science in 9th grade for first AP. It might prove to be too much and she may not do well which will be counter productive. 
so spend some time reading through past threads and they will give you different ideas about how to approach high school. All the best. 

[stripe]

I would strongly consider taking chemistry before taking AP biology. Many people take regular biology before AP.

I don’t know that it’s necessary to take English and History as honors / AP if they are not your child’s strongest subject, because at a minimum, they will take time away from the main interests of science and math.

Is your daughter doing PLTW at home or somewhere else?

Edited March 13, 2021 by stripe

[skctgbrlis]

I have some STEM kids. The best, most motivating thing for them has been participating in a homeschool FIRST (FTC) Robotics team throughout high school. They have gained incredible knowledge and skills through the experience. Alongside, they’ve done some Saxon, Apologia, IEW, Notgrass... 

My current senior is taking Calculus BC through PAH and some dual enrollment as well. He has some independent study computer courses on his transcript also. Oh, Compuscholar AP Java also...

[Swimmer1112]

math acceleration paths that I’ve seen are

1. take Algebra 2 and Geometry together. 
2. Skip Pre-calculus and go straight into AP Calculus AB or AP Calculus BC

3. take Pre-calculus over the summer 

4. skip AP Calculus AB go straight into AP Calculus BC

my daughter took Pre-calculus over the summer after 10 th grade and went into AP Calculus BC in 11th. This allowed her to take 2 math classes at the CC in 12th.  

Edited March 13, 2021 by Marie.Sd

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I didn't see a foreign language. That is often one of the core courses that student take each year. Most colleges will expect to see some foreign language (typically at least two years of the same language, but 3-4 years at more selective colleges).

Do you have a source for doing the PLTW courses? I investigated this a couple years ago and couldn't find a way to do this as a homeschooler.

[Allthebest]

Thank you for the responses.  PLTW is through the school but there are various homeschool charter schools/co-ops.  Dd is taking Spanish (since 7th grade) and will continue throughout HS.  

[chiguirre]

Calculus AB and BC aren't both required. Some kids take AB one year and BC the second, but you can go straight into BC if you are a strong math student. The BC test covers two semesters of college calc. However, STEM majors usually require 3 semesters of college calc (Derivatives, Integrals, Multivariable). If your dd wants to finish the entire sequence, you can see if your local CC offers the classes and check to see if their reputation for being rigorous is good. Some universities offer a condensed calc sequence in two semesters that covers the material normally taught in three. If you can't find any better option locally or online, UT Austin offers their condensed sequence online. It's asynchronous so I don't think it's your best option, but it exists if you need it.

[UmmIbrahim]

1 hour ago, Allthebest said:

My dd will be entering 9th grade this fall and would like to major in mathematics with aim of taking Calculus BC by 12th grade. We are thinking about options to accelerate dd to achieve this goal (summer classes, additional course during school year, I.e. algebra 2 alongside geometry).  Below are courses for the fall:

1- World History advanced (wants to also self study to take AP World exam starting this summer) 

If your dd is very strongly STEM focused, I would carefully consider whether the world history AP is something she wants to do. The history AP exams are well known for being a substantial time commitment, and that would be time that she would not be spending on science/math interests. If she absolutely loves history, then that's a wonderful plan, but if it's more of a "I think I should have x number of AP exams to be competitive" plan, then perhaps reconsider.

My oldest son (very STEM oriented) primarily took AP exams in areas he was interested in. This meant math, science, computer science, then a few other ones he liked (the econ ones and psychology). He had no particular interest in history, and he felt that his time saved in not grinding out hours of history work was better spent in pursuing some outside computer projects and other interest projects. 

 

 

[Allthebest]

5 minutes ago, UmmIbrahim said:

If your dd is very strongly STEM focused, I would carefully consider whether the world history AP is something she wants to do. The history AP exams are well known for being a substantial time commitment, and that would be time that she would not be spending on science/math interests. If she absolutely loves history, then that's a wonderful plan, but if it's more of a "I think I should have x number of AP exams to be competitive" plan, then perhaps reconsider.

My oldest son (very STEM oriented) primarily took AP exams in areas he was interested in. This meant math, science, computer science, then a few other ones he liked (the econ ones and psychology). He had no particular interest in history, and he felt that his time saved in not grinding out hours of history work was better spent in pursuing some outside computer projects and other interest projects. 

 

 

Thank you! Yes, she’s not a big history fan and was looking at taking min 8 AP courses over the 4 years.  

[Clemsondana]

Alternatively, getting AP/DE credit for classes outside your major can help with college - instead of a 3 hr English or history class in college, having credit for that requirement allowed us to dedicate more time to studying our science classes or spend that time in the lab.  But, I wouldn't load up on those sorts of classes  At schools that we've looked at, 1 English and 1 history are all that would be useful.  We're looking at this now with our older.  Some classes are time consuming whether taken in high school or college, so we're looking at balancing getting some done in high school while not limiting our ability to study interesting things or overload the schedule.  

Our own experience leads us to not encourage trying to test out of a ton of intro classes in the desired field of study.  Like, as a biochem major it was helpful to test out of English and testing out of physics would have been lovely.  But, the college bio classes covered more than the high school AP course, so I'm glad that my high school didn't offer it.  I don't mean don't skip anything - if you make it through all of calc in high school and are taking linear algebra, you might not need to go back and retake it.  But, spouse tested out of 2 semesters of calc but chose to only skip the first one to make sure that they weren't missing anything that they'd need later.  

[SDMomof3]

34 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

Alternatively, getting AP/DE credit for classes outside your major can help with college - instead of a 3 hr English or history class in college, having credit for that requirement allowed us to dedicate more time to studying our science classes or spend that time in the lab.  But, I wouldn't load up on those sorts of classes  At schools that we've looked at, 1 English and 1 history are all that would be useful.  We're looking at this now with our older.  Some classes are time consuming whether taken in high school or college, so we're looking at balancing getting some done in high school while not limiting our ability to study interesting things or overload the schedule.  

Our own experience leads us to not encourage trying to test out of a ton of intro classes in the desired field of study.  Like, as a biochem major it was helpful to test out of English and testing out of physics would have been lovely.  But, the college bio classes covered more than the high school AP course, so I'm glad that my high school didn't offer it.  I don't mean don't skip anything - if you make it through all of calc in high school and are taking linear algebra, you might not need to go back and retake it.  But, spouse tested out of 2 semesters of calc but chose to only skip the first one to make sure that they weren't missing anything that they'd need later.  

I have to agree, my dd was able to get credit for most of her GEs, she only had to take 2 writing classes in college. Not having to take humanities classes gave her more time to concentrate on her engineering classes.

[Kassia]

15 minutes ago, SDMomof3 said:

I have to agree, my dd was able to get credit for most of her GEs, she only had to take 2 writing classes in college. Not having to take humanities classes gave her more time to concentrate on her engineering classes.

My kids had the same experience.  They received credit for almost all of their core classes and were able to take fewer hours toward their degree meaning they could take fewer hours per semester, pick up a minor, and/or explore other subjects of interest (all engineering students).  

[UmmIbrahim]

1 hour ago, Allthebest said:

Thank you! Yes, she’s not a big history fan and was looking at taking min 8 AP courses over the 4 years.  

I guess a lot depends on what sorts of universities you think you might be considering and how those universities award credits for APs. In our personal situation, my oldest son was looking at very competitive universities, and the one he will attend in the fall (he's on a gap year currently) is VERY picky about awarding credit and will be giving him almost nothing (he took 8 AP exams and 60 credit hours of dual enrollment during high school). I think they will accept at most 2 AP exams for general credit. The others may just modify your placement for higher level courses, but not award credit.

That said, this school is not the norm. One of his other acceptance schools (a large state university) was going to give him an insane amount of credit from his dual enrollment + APs. So much depends on the particular university.

For us, we chose to use APs and Dual Enrollment to supplement his strong subjects or subjects that he particularly enjoyed. We used them to extend the rigor of high school and to allow him to explore some areas beyond a traditional high school scope. He might not have discovered a love for organic chemistry or higher level programming if he hadn't really tried some classes he thought were interesting. We didn't even have a list of universities to apply to until his junior year, so we weren't looking at what credits might be transferrable at a particular school. Some kids are really focused and have a short list of schools they want to attend early in their high school career. It would definitely be a nice thing to knock out some general education requirements (and those can vary!) if you are fairly sure of a short list of schools and what they might award credit for! However, if plans change, and the school list changes, it's probably a good idea to not only take things for the sake of credits, but to also incorporate high-interest subjects that can help hone their ideas about what they might like to major in or study. 

[daijobu]

8 hours ago, Allthebest said:

My dd will be entering 9th grade this fall and would like to major in mathematics with aim of taking Calculus BC by 12th grade. We are thinking about options to accelerate dd to achieve this goal (summer classes, additional course during school year, I.e. algebra 2 alongside geometry).  Below are courses for the fall:

1- World History advanced (wants to also self study to take AP World exam starting this summer) 

Dd would also like to self study for the AP computer science or computer science principles exam and take the PSAT.  
 

A typical US high school sequence for calculus in 12th grade is 

9th: geometry

10th: algebra 2

11th: precalc

12th calc

So I don't see any need to accelerate math unless you want to add in counting/probability and number theory which can be studied over the summer or concurrently during the school year.  

Skip AP World and AP CSP.  Take AP CSA.   If she likes history, then take APUSH, but doesn't need to be freshman year.  

Edited March 13, 2021 by daijobu

[vonfirmath]

17 hours ago, Allthebest said:

Cross-post:

 

My dd will be entering 9th grade this fall and would like to major in mathematics with aim of taking Calculus BC by 12th grade. We are thinking about options to accelerate dd to achieve this goal (summer classes, additional course during school year, I.e. algebra 2 alongside geometry).  Below are courses for the fall:

1- World History advanced (wants to also self study to take AP World exam starting this summer) 

2- Honors Geometry (will take enrichment classes/self study to deepen understanding) 

3- Biology regents (is this necessary or is self study for AP biology exam advisable? Or is physics first a better option?)

4- English 9 honors (literature and language studies). Not strongest subject so will need additional support 

5-PROJECT LEAD THE WAY (PLTW): Introduction to Engineering Design 

Dd would also like to self study for the AP computer science or computer science principles exam and take the PSAT.  
 

any advice would be appreciated in coming up with a more comprehensive plan/accelerated course load? 
 

thank you! 

My son's high school won't let them take AP biology in 9th grade. And also requires they take either biology or chemistry before taking AP biology so he's doing chemistry honors this year and AP biology next year (planned)

 

He's taken some Project Lead the Way courses in Middle School and REALLY enjoys them.

[lewelma]

My son accelerated through math by taking multiple AoPS courses in a school year.  I don't remember the details, but he worked over the summer and got through Algebra 2 and Precalculus in a 12 month period. 

 

[lewelma]

As for placing out of all the intro classes so you have more time for your STEM major, my older son has very much enjoyed taking one HASS class each term (Humanities, Arts, Social Science) as a break from a strong STEM load. There are only so many p-sets that even a STEM kid wants to do each week.  

Edited March 14, 2021 by lewelma