bethben Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Has anyone done this with their child or themselves? I'm trying to figure out if it's a sham or real science. It's to try to help my daughter who has anger issues, defiant issues, possible RAD, and ADHD. I'm not convinced she will choose to follow a therapist's recommendations with things to try at home to regulate her anger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I think PeterPan did it with at least one of her kids. I've known some people who did it in real life. It wasn't a sham exactly but also not really effective. Mightier might be a way to go? https://mightier.com/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I think it might help a parent deal with stress over children. I doubt it would work unless someone were personally motivated to put it into practice. From what I’ve read it isn’t especially helpful for ADHD. It might be helpful for anger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I believe some friends used it for trauma with a child adopted from foster care, and it was very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pronghorn Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I have not used it but have heard good things about it. The provider may need to understand attachment and trauma. The protocol is different than f or ADHD etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Btw I suggest looking up studies to help figure out what’s known about it helping your dd s issues. For example using google scholar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) As far as the computerized systems, yes we did it, I think Zengar. Utterly worthless from what I can tell and an excuse for not doing real therapy. And since it's computerized, the person pushing the button go has ZERO CLUE what it's doing or why. The theory was great, and there are some systems that are less passive and might even do something. Even then, they're scary. Like they'll claim they're doing a scan and targeting specific brain waves. But to relate any of that to the op's issues, how do they connect?? I don't see it. I must be missing it and op must have some research or something. That's what I'd be looking for. I can see the logic when you say an attention issue is due to certain types of brain waves and you're trying to increase them. But in reality it was forcing an issue that starts with chemicals. It wore out my severely ADHD kid and aggravated her APD. (you process/discriminate sound through fuzz, which basically wore her out and did nothing good for her) For my ds with ASD/aggression/anything else you want to list it did crap nothing. Actually scratch that, it made him wake up slower and more unhappy in the mornings, which isn't exactly what I'd call a good side effect. I finally realized having idiots who have no clue what they're doing messing with your kid's brain is DUMB. My dd begged to stop and we stopped. On May 13, 2019 at 10:30 AM, bethben said: I'm not convinced she will choose to follow a therapist's recommendations with things to try at home to regulate her anger. if she has a chemical problem, she's not likely to be ABLE to do the therapist's recommendations until the physical problems are dealt with. It's not like we can cognitive out everything. Sometimes our bodies are distinctly uncooperative. Sometimes there's an order, like get the body calm (removing food allergens, bringing in psychotropics or biomedical), THEN doing the CBT and social thinking and all that. Where is she with getting off the dairy? You had said she was eating a ton and then tested as reacting to it, right? Has removing dairy improved anything or is she non-compliant on that? My ds is basically unworkable on dairy. He can have tiny amounts (butter on a pancake), but if he actually drinks milk I can expect a really BAD DAY. Edited May 15, 2019 by PeterPan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pronghorn Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Are you on any Internet forums for parents of kids with attachment and trauma issues? That would be the place to ask for recommendations so that you get a practitioner that will do the right protocols for the types of problems your child may have. I used to be part of the attach-china yahoo group, where some people there had good neurofeedback results. Our kids have mostly grown up, so the group is not very active now. But you could give it a try. There used to be some of the wisest parents in the world on there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 9 hours ago, Pen said: I think it might help a parent deal with stress over children. I doubt it would work unless someone were personally motivated to put it into practice. From what I’ve read it isn’t especially helpful for ADHD. It might be helpful for anger This. The client has to be willing to take the info from the feedback and work with it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 8 hours ago, Pronghorn said: good neurofeedback You'd want to know exactly what system they were using. Then you'd need to account for the "I paid a lot of money for this so I'm raving about it" syndrome stuff. Then see if there's any actual research or published data saying what they're claiming. When it sounds too good to be true with therapy, it usually is. 5 hours ago, Liz CA said: The client has to be willing to take the info from the feedback and work with it. You must be working with a different system. Some are totally passive, and others are sustained attention exercises basically. There is no feedback for them to put into place. I've heard there are other types (active, with a person not a computer), but we could be talking about lots of different things here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 The other thing op has to watch for is this is nearing the end of the line for your dc's participation in therapies. It's not like they're little and can be compelled or are limitlessly enthusiastic. If this is the LAST THERAPY your dc is willing to do, is it the one you MOST WANT? It's something to think through. My dd hit that stage where she was like nope, we've tried enough, I'm done. And maybe your dc is not there quite yet, but it is coming. You have to choose very carefully. Your dc's tolerance for things that don't work out may decrease, especially if she's also on the spectrum. There could be a lot of digging in there at some point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 https://www.additudemag.com/neurofeedback-adhd-brain-training/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innisfree Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 9 hours ago, Liz CA said: This. The client has to be willing to take the info from the feedback and work with it. I asked a couple of our doctors about neurofeedback for dd and got this answer. If the dc is not motivated to change things, it isn't going to happen just by virtue of the technology. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Btw, I think it is a real thing— just not sure it would work well in your circumstances. Have you looked into EMDR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I have a sibling who is an attachment therapist who really believes in it. I haven't used it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 4 hours ago, PeterPan said: You'd want to know exactly what system they were using. Then you'd need to account for the "I paid a lot of money for this so I'm raving about it" syndrome stuff. Then see if there's any actual research or published data saying what they're claiming. When it sounds too good to be true with therapy, it usually is. You must be working with a different system. Some are totally passive, and others are sustained attention exercises basically. There is no feedback for them to put into place. I've heard there are other types (active, with a person not a computer), but we could be talking about lots of different things here. 23 minutes ago, Innisfree said: I asked a couple of our doctors about neurofeedback for dd and got this answer. If the dc is not motivated to change things, it isn't going to happen just by virtue of the technology. I am most familiar with the brain scan technology of neurofeedback that allows clients to receive feedback from fMRI or EEG and learn how to change certain brainwave patterns. There is a method where it is a more passive approach with computerized feedback, so this may be a less client-involved modality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) http://www.eegspectrum.com/applications/attachment-disorder/4yomale/ I didn’t see any studies related to attachment , but might have missed finding them. There are some promising case studies as the above one even with someone perhaps too young to be actively wanting to change— though perhaps also not the opposite. However, it was from a site essentially selling Neurofeedback services Edited May 15, 2019 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Katy said: I have a sibling who is an attachment therapist who really believes in it. I haven't used it myself. Do you know any more specifics? The type used? Length of treatment ? Anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachGal Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Another idea is equine therapy if you have it in your area. Working with horses can be therapeutic for some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachGal Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 On 5/14/2019 at 1:42 PM, Terabith said: I think PeterPan did it with at least one of her kids. I've known some people who did it in real life. It wasn't a sham exactly but also not really effective. Mightier might be a way to go? https://mightier.com/ This is very interesting. The breathing is basically vagal toning. Very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 5 hours ago, Pen said: Do you know any more specifics? The type used? Length of treatment ? Anything? I don't know any specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.