Those who have RAD adopted kids

[Pen]

I highly recommend:

 

Resilient: How to Grow an Unshakable Core of Calm, Strength, and Happiness https://www.amazon.com/dp/0451498844/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_dCDCCbJAVJP5B

 

not in any way specific to RAD, or to parenting, but has many, many, many methods of increasing ability to cope and feel happier in whatever circumstances we find ourselves.  

I experienced it in audio format, which I  recommend.  I think it was read by the author and extremely helpful as it made it seem more like an excellent, skilled therapist talking personally to me , rather than reading a book.

Also, some parts were leading the listener through a body scan or meditation, which works really well being able to listen and perhaps close eyes to do what says to do, as he says to do it.  

 

Edited February 24, 2019 by Pen

[Terabith]

I have a friend who worked at Chaddock, and it's supposed to be one of the best places in the country for kids with RAD or other aggressive mental illnesses.  It might be worth calling and talking to them?  https://www.chaddock.org/

[Katy]

You mentioned church, so I'm going to use some significant Christian language that I would otherwise avoid instead of only psychology and neuroscience.

I think you have to let go of the idea that she will ever say she wants a mother, or anything else you need her to say for you to feel better about the situation.  She doesn't want a mother, but she does NEED you to mother her.  That isn't her fault.  It isn't your fault. There is nothing you can do to make this better except ride it out with her and hope she's in the group that turns into a normal adult when the hormones turn off.

It's the fault of whoever didn't parent her as an infant. It's brain damage exacerbated by puberty hormones. She needs you, but she's not capable of even thinking that way, let alone saying it. Because the part of her brain that normally tells a person that they can trust others and love them wasn't formed.  Hers was formed to never trust others and to lash out when someone is trying to get you to trust them because it must be a trick. It's brain damage, it isn't who she was meant to be. Parenting a child with RAD is the most selfless love there is, apart from what Jesus did for all of us. It is truly the ONLY unconditional love on earth.  And it definitely isn't what most people sign up for when their local church has Orphan Sunday.

From what I can tell from support groups and reading about children who fit the child psychopath profile, there's a high chance that before the age of 20 she's going to want nothing to do with you and will run away.  And then when she finishes growing up, around mid 20's, she'll either come back and apologize and then be the sort of adult who is thankful for everything you went through for her or she'll remain detached and if she would bother going to a therapist would probably get diagnosed as a sociopath. But that group doesn't tend to go to therapy.  As far as I can tell there's no way to predict which group a child will grow up to be.

As to how to get through it:

1. Pray.  Pray the scriptures for your kid. Record yourself praying whichever of these prayers you need most right now, and listen to them and pray them once a day.  Note: this will probably not have an immediate effect on her. It WILL help you turn all of this over to God, it will help you be responsible for what you can control (YOU and your reactions to her), and it will help you respond to her in a more graceful, loving way when she does terrible things.
2. Has anyone mentioned Beyond Consequences yet?  It's not intuitive, but it does help if you can get over how NOT intuitive it is.
3. If she does something truly dangerous, call the police and have her admitted to the hospital.  This is what the adoptive parents of one of my children's biological siblings had to do a couple of times in order to get the best attachment therapy in there area.  The wait list for kids not hospitalized first was a couple of years long.  The wait list for kids coming from the hospital was nothing, because they stayed admitted until they were allowed in the program. They both had multiple bruises and black eyes from their smaller child.
4. Group homes.  Yep, I know several people who had to have children move to basically the child version of a psych hospital on a long term basis because they were too violent to live in a family. I don't know how those families stay so involved because it truly is selfless, but it happens.
5. Take time apart with your spouse. Reconnect as a couple, even if the only time you have to do it is if your husband flexes some hours so you have time together without your daughter while she is at school.

[Ottakee]

Has she always been like this or is this a big change over the years?  How was she as a toddler, preschooler, early elementary age?

I have seen proper medication make such a huge difference for so many kids like her.  Puberty, trauma and mental health concerns are a terrible trio........but in many cases there is hope.

[Pen]

21 hours ago, Terabith said:

I have a friend who worked at Chaddock, and it's supposed to be one of the best places in the country for kids with RAD or other aggressive mental illnesses.  It might be worth calling and talking to them?  https://www.chaddock.org/

 

I clicked the link and it looks interesting—and maybe nowadays help could come from such a place using Skype or FaceTime or similar even if in a different state, or country.  

[bethben]

32 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Has she always been like this or is this a big change over the years?  How was she as a toddler, preschooler, early elementary age?

I have seen proper medication make such a huge difference for so many kids like her.  Puberty, trauma and mental health concerns are a terrible trio........but in many cases there is hope.

As a toddler, she was much like she is now - not wanting to listen to us, temper tantrums, wanting to run away.  In early elementary, she was pretty ok.  She was little high strung and a little on the hyper side, but not too excessive.  She didn't stress us nearly as much.  I feel like she's regressed back to those toddler years when she first came to us.  But, sometimes parenting a teen feels like parenting a toddler again with a NT kid.  

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, bethben said:

As a toddler, she was much like she is now - not wanting to listen to us, temper tantrums, wanting to run away.  In early elementary, she was pretty ok.  She was little high strung and a little on the hyper side, but not too excessive.  She didn't stress us nearly as much.  I feel like she's regressed back to those toddler years when she first came to us.  But, sometimes parenting a teen feels like parenting a toddler again with a NT kid.  

 

That sounds like potential to be hopeful that she can circle back to a new “pretty okay” stage as hormones and teen stuff moves along.

[bethben]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

You mentioned church, so I'm going to use some significant Christian language that I would otherwise avoid instead of only psychology and neuroscience.

I think you have to let go of the idea that she will ever say she wants a mother, or anything else you need her to say for you to feel better about the situation.  She doesn't want a mother, but she does NEED you to mother her.  That isn't her fault.  It isn't your fault. There is nothing you can do to make this better except ride it out with her and hope she's in the group that turns into a normal adult when the hormones turn off.

It's the fault of whoever didn't parent her as an infant. It's brain damage exacerbated by puberty hormones. She needs you, but she's not capable of even thinking that way, let alone saying it. Because the part of her brain that normally tells a person that they can trust others and love them wasn't formed.  Hers was formed to never trust others and to lash out when someone is trying to get you to trust them because it must be a trick. It's brain damage, it isn't who she was meant to be. Parenting a child with RAD is the most selfless love there is, apart from what Jesus did for all of us. It is truly the ONLY unconditional love on earth.  And it definitely isn't what most people sign up for when their local church has Orphan Sunday.

 

 

I determined today that raising this child and trying to love her will be my "offering" to God.  The apostle Paul mentioned how he endured beatings and prison for Jesus and while I know it's not the same, in some ways, I do feel slightly trapped by this child.  I will do what I can and be what I can and leave the rest for God to deal with.  I am learning how not to take responsibility for her choices.  I can do what I can and get her as much help as I can, but I can only do so much and some of the choice has to be hers also.  I told her the other day that as her mom, I would choose to love her and be there for her, but if she was going to choose to push me away, there was nothing I could do to stop her.  I told her that she had to make a choice also and that I would just wait. 

 I KNOW it's not what people sign up for when they consider adopting an orphan.  I wish wish wish that the church in general would also have a whole program of support and easy to find resources (including money) for people who do so.  It's usually not a fuzzy happy picture like they show.

[Ottakee]

34 minutes ago, bethben said:

As a toddler, she was much like she is now - not wanting to listen to us, temper tantrums, wanting to run away.  In early elementary, she was pretty ok.  She was little high strung and a little on the hyper side, but not too excessive.  She didn't stress us nearly as much.  I feel like she's regressed back to those toddler years when she first came to us.  But, sometimes parenting a teen feels like parenting a toddler again with a NT kid.  

Then I think you are likely dealing with mental health and/or trauma issues, not true RAD.  It doesn't make parenting easier but I think you have hope.

Check out the book, As Real As It Gets by Amanda Barton at www.westolivepress.com   It is a kids book but still helpful at her age and it is the story of a boy that keeps telling his mom "you're not my REAL mom".

[Katy]

24 minutes ago, bethben said:

 

I determined today that raising this child and trying to love her will be my "offering" to God.  The apostle Paul mentioned how he endured beatings and prison for Jesus and while I know it's not the same, in some ways, I do feel slightly trapped by this child.  I will do what I can and be what I can and leave the rest for God to deal with.  I am learning how not to take responsibility for her choices.  I can do what I can and get her as much help as I can, but I can only do so much and some of the choice has to be hers also.  I told her the other day that as her mom, I would choose to love her and be there for her, but if she was going to choose to push me away, there was nothing I could do to stop her.  I told her that she had to make a choice also and that I would just wait. 

 I KNOW it's not what people sign up for when they consider adopting an orphan.  I wish wish wish that the church in general would also have a whole program of support and easy to find resources (including money) for people who do so.  It's usually not a fuzzy happy picture like they show.

 

I think that you're going to find that making this decision was one of the best decisions you ever made in your life.  Regardless of what kind of person she becomes, learning to love unconditionally will change you into a kind of person you never dreamed you could be...  oh, how does that Mother Teresa quote go?  "I have found the paradox that if you love until it hurts there can be no more hurt, there can only be more love."  It doesn't mean she will or won't love you back, but it is possible (with a lot of prayer and tears) to love her through all the pain until you find she can't hurt you any more. Anyway, there's a peace in it. Even joy.  I wouldn't change my experiences, but I would have bought that praying the scriptures book earlier.

I agree that there should be more support for families in this position. Maybe when you get through this you can make helping others your life's work.

You might also like Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life at some point when you have the energy for non-essential books or you're looking for a new audible choice to listen to when cleaning or driving. He talks at length about the meaning of life coming not from the pursuit of happiness, but from the overcoming of suffering and from taking responsibility for difficult things.  Basically, pick up your cross and follow Christ, though he has a very secular, psychology & literature influenced take on it.  He explains it more as a metaphorical truth than Bible as Word of God type of interpretation. So if you're in a very literal explanation only sort of faith you might find it offensive.  If you're open to "literal might be true but it works over here in the metaphor realm as well" kind of message you might like it.

[bethben]

30 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Then I think you are likely dealing with mental health and/or trauma issues, not true RAD.  It doesn't make parenting easier but I think you have hope.

Check out the book, As Real As It Gets by Amanda Barton at www.westolivepress.com   It is a kids book but still helpful at her age and it is the story of a boy that keeps telling his mom "you're not my REAL mom".

I'm starting to wonder if it's bipolar sometimes.  Sometimes I wonder if she has FASD.  Sometimes it seems like RAD.  This is why I'm getting her a full evaluation.  I can't possibly guess and I'm going to let someone else do it.  Thankfully, I have a lot of situational symptoms and evidence of what being on Prozac did to her.  I've been charting her moods and rages for four months now.  At first, I was thinking hormones were inducing rages since the first few months I was charting were every 28 days.  Then it went to every two weeks and now it's weekly so something is ramping up.  I do believe she is close to getting her first period.  That will not be a fun time.  She's really much younger in hygiene than her age and my training should indicate.  I still ask her if she's wiped her bottom after she goes to the bathroom because she still forgets.  

[Ottakee]

13 minutes ago, bethben said:

I'm starting to wonder if it's bipolar sometimes.  Sometimes I wonder if she has FASD.  Sometimes it seems like RAD.  This is why I'm getting her a full evaluation.  I can't possibly guess and I'm going to let someone else do it.  Thankfully, I have a lot of situational symptoms and evidence of what being on Prozac did to her.  I've been charting her moods and rages for four months now.  At first, I was thinking hormones were inducing rages since the first few months I was charting were every 28 days.  Then it went to every two weeks and now it's weekly so something is ramping up.  I do believe she is close to getting her first period.  That will not be a fun time.  She's really much younger in hygiene than her age and my training should indicate.  I still ask her if she's wiped her bottom after she goes to the bathroom because she still forgets.  

Bipolar could certainly fit.  I have 1 with bipolar here and one with mood disorder NOS and one with FAS.....lots of fun at my house.  The full eval is very good idea.  For some, they settle down a bit once they get their first period.  I understand the hygiene and emotional immaturity all too well.

This might be premature (and it goes against my being to even mention it) but you might want to talk to her doctor about Nexplanon.  It is a rod that is inserted in the upper arm and provides 3 years of birth control.  These kiddos are at such high risk of unintended pregnancy through raging hormones, lack of forward thinking, being vulnerable, etc.  On the plus, it can help with hormonal surges and often makes periods much lighter and cramps much less.  It took a good friend of mine a few months of discussing it with me to convince me it was a good idea.  She is a DNP/FNP (along with adoptive mom of challenging kiddos) so she knows her stuff.  My girls love having it to help with their periods and cramps even though neither is "active" .

[KrissiK]

((Bethben))  I have five children we adopted through foster care. My oldest is in pretty bad shape right now. We are suspecting some mental health issues and are trying to get evaluations, but it is very very difficult. He presents as a perfect kid. Well, not perfect, but you can't tell by talking to him that he has put our family through he11. But, we continue to push and tell our story and hopefully someone will listen and figure out what's wrong with him. My other four.... they are a joy.  They really are.  They aren't perfect, but they are so sweet.  So, hang in there.

Edited February 25, 2019 by KrissiK

[Terabith]

Not at all in the same boat, but my younger one started her first period when she was 10, and she is pretty young in terms of hygiene.  I was really worried, because I was still having to ask about bottom wiping, and laundry made it evident that even with my asking, it wasn't always done (at least not well).  However, she's done much better than I expected with her period.  I guess it's so visual that it's a solid prompt.  Not perfect, but as good as any young teen, I think.  She doesn't use tampons (can't make them work), and in many ways I'm glad of that because I worry it would get forgotten too easily.  

[bethben]

Someone please tell me this will get better....today I’m calling psych hospitals to find out the procedure for admittance just in case.  She threatened us saying, “if you give me consequences, then you know what I’m going to do.”  That usually means a multi hour rage.  She was horrible this morning.  DH and I are supposed to go away for 24 hours this weekend.  We haven’t been away for a night for over ten years (not counting when I came to our current location to find a house and got altitude sickness) and finally found someone to watch my oldest son.  She may wreck that also and we both just want to sit down and weep.  Everything is starting to point to a bipolar condition imo.

Edited February 25, 2019 by bethben

[Ottakee]

Can her doctor call in an emergency med?  

If at all possible, good away this weekend.  You need it.....and she needs to see that you will go away and come back.

[Katy]

44 minutes ago, bethben said:

Someone please tell me this will get better....today I’m calling psych hospitals to find out the procedure for admittance just in case.  She threatened us saying, “if you give me consequences, then you know what I’m going to do.”  That usually means a multi hour rage.  She was horrible this morning.  DH and I are supposed to go away for 24 hours this weekend.  We haven’t been away for a night for over ten years (not counting when I came to our current location to find a house and got altitude sickness) and finally found someone to watch my oldest son.  She may wreck that also and we both just want to sit down and weep.  Everything is starting to point to a bipolar condition imo.

 

It will get better.   This too will pass.

I will warn you it may take a while to get a bipolar diagnosis, it's one of those things some people don't like to diagnose in children.

[Tap]

1 hour ago, bethben said:

Someone please tell me this will get better....today I’m calling psych hospitals to find out the procedure for admittance just in case.  She threatened us saying, “if you give me consequences, then you know what I’m going to do.”  That usually means a multi hour rage.  She was horrible this morning.  DH and I are supposed to go away for 24 hours this weekend.  We haven’t been away for a night for over ten years (not counting when I came to our current location to find a house and got altitude sickness) and finally found someone to watch my oldest son.  She may wreck that also and we both just want to sit down and weep.  Everything is starting to point to a bipolar condition imo.

I remember this time in my life so well. I wish I could walk beside you and help make those calls, and carry the burden of the decision you are contemplating. It isn't just a hard decision, it is horrific to go thru the thought process of what it means to have them placed in a facility even for the short term. I am glad you are trying to find out your options before a moment of extreme crisis.  Some states have mental health facilities for children and some do not. In patient care for children with mental health issues is greatly lacking in the US. 

As you call around to find out your options, one question to ask is what their general population looks like at this moment. The reason I am asking, is that one facility we were considering for dd12 a few years back, accepted 8yo to 18yo. When I called to talk to them about placing here there, they were legally allowed to take her, but the current population was all 16 and up, violent/predatory boys and a couple older girls. The person who answered the phone wasn't the receptionist, it was one of the councilors who spoke on a condition of anonymity. They said she would be the only young child (she was 9/10 at the time) and so they couldn't really isolate her from the older kids due to staffing. There would be large parts of the day that she would be with those kids, and the person on the phone told me the highly do not recommend she be placed there. They did not feel she would be safe.  I was desperate to find a place for her and if there was a complete mental break down on her part there wouldn't have been a choice, but at least they were honest and gave me some things to think about.

One thing I was told by a counselor, is that there are many more boys with extreme behavior issues, but when a girl has an issue, it is almost always at the far end of extreme. They are usually some of the most complicated and most difficult to help. I don't have any research to back that up, but from what I have seen in my little world, it definitely seems accurate. Out of 100 kids in my daughters school, there are less than 10 that are girls, and at one point, dd was one of only 3 girls. All the girls at her school are long time students. They don't transition back easily or quickly to a regular school. 

I am sorry you are having to go thru this thought process. I know what it is like to feel like you have used every single parenting strategy you know and the child continues to rage and tear apart your world. Not only the physical house, but to disrupt the family unit itself. To feel them raging against the ties that bind a family together, is a whole nother level of emotional destruction, that goes beyond the brain, and permeates the families heart as well.  

I have to run, but just know that there are those of us out there that know what you are going thru. We all wish we would could help and would in a heartbeat. I am in Portland Oregon/Vancouver Wa. If there is any thing I can do from here, just let me know. I am happy to help in any way I can.

[nixpix5]

On 2/21/2019 at 11:31 AM, bethben said:

Further question--how do people live year after year not believing anything will change and will most likely get worse?  How do people live in a constant hard?  

This one statement brought up so many painful memories for me. My adopted son was horrifically hard. Like the kind of hard that almost takes down your entire family. His brother shows some signs of trauma and my husband certainly white knuckled his way through it. I got him at 3 yo and within the span of two years was kicked out of 6 daycares. DH and I almost lost our jobs due to constantly having to leave to go pick him up. It always felt as though he held out family hostage. He continued to be hard through high school. He was brilliant but never seemed to learn from his mistakes, it was always someone else's fault and he walked away from relationships with ease while clinging too tightly to others. Getting him through high school felt like a marathon. I was in sheer survival mode. He was resistant to counseling as many RAD kiddos are. The protective denial was too thick. What helped me was to not let him black hole me. It was easy for him to become all we ever talked about, all we ever focused on. I tried to keep my diet stable, get exercise and take some me time to charge. DH and I would toggle back and forth passing off the baton so the other could breathe. I kept a journal where I would write down what blessings he had brought to me (oh yeah, sometimes this one was damn near impossible). I often meditated on how much I adored him and how much early pain he had to have suffered to become so broken. I told myself that each emotional sacrifice on my side did fill his bucket even if I didn't see it yet. I just had to fight hard to not let my thoughts take me down a rabbit hole. 

Fast forward to now. He is in his mid 20s and we have an exceptional close mom/son relationship. He has a steady career, pays all of his own bills and has a close group of friends. He is an absolute blessing and I can now count them all without having to stretch too far. He has never acknowledged any of our sacrifice of course, he cannot see it. His RAD will never allow it but he has genuine love for us, his siblings and life. He still struggles in his intimate relationships but seeks advice from us and talks openly. His RAD will always effect him. I am so grateful I had to go through that journey with him and didn't give up. I NEVER thought I would say that when I was on the trenches. There were so many days I barely liked him if I were to be honest. He all have battle wounds but each time I fought back anger and frustration or took the time to be consistent even though he pushed back was worth it now. 

I know this won't be helpful in the here and now. I just want you to know that there is hope. RAD is the absolute HARDEST thing I have ever had to face. I am so sorry you are in the thick of it right now *hug*

[Pen]

1 hour ago, bethben said:

Someone please tell me this will get better....today I’m calling psych hospitals to find out the procedure for admittance just in case.  She threatened us saying, “if you give me consequences, then you know what I’m going to do.”  That usually means a multi hour rage.  She was horrible this morning.  DH and I are supposed to go away for 24 hours this weekend.  We haven’t been away for a night for over ten years (not counting when I came to our current location to find a house and got altitude sickness) and finally found someone to watch my oldest son.  She may wreck that also and we both just want to sit down and weep.  Everything is starting to point to a bipolar condition imo.

 

Do what you can to get away with dh  you (and your children) need your selves to be okay and your marriage to be okay 

Admittance May help toward answers

Negative “Consequences “ type parenting doesn’t work well for some children from ptsd sorts of backgrounds     I cannot use that    It was recommended against as a foster parent    

Hang in there.

hugs and prayers 

 

[Pen]

“Oppositional Defiance Disorder”?  

[Pen]

In terms of strategies for day to day dealing with RAD or similar behavior,

The A-Z of Therapeutic Parenting

might help. It’s arranged so that you can look up something like “Argues” and see suggestions for dealing with that.

However, focus on Safety (including your and dh and ds emotional safety), and if getting her into a facility will help, do it.  

Edited February 25, 2019 by Pen

[Tap]

30 minutes ago, Pen said:

“Oppositional Defiance Disorder”?  

Another diagnosis that not many people know about is Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder. It is one of the Dx that DD12 has.  There are some Youtube videos that are great on the topic. They are by Dr Fisher and are a multipart series.  They were eye opening for me and it really helped me to understand her dysregulation in a way I hadn't thought of before.

[Ottakee]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

 

It will get better.   This too will pass.

I will warn you it may take a while to get a bipolar diagnosis, it's one of those things some people don't like to diagnose in children.

Some doctors will treat the symptoms at least before a formal diagnosis.  Others will give a mood disorder NOS diagnosis as well.

[bethben]

We sent her to school and they called two hours later because she was really tired and felt nauseous.  She was running a slight fever.  She laid into me in the parking lot because she forgot her lunchbox and I had just loaded her disabled brother in the car and told her calmly she could get it when she went back.  So, she yelled at me about that.  She has refused to sleep at night or take naps and this morning refused to eat breakfast.  Of course she got sick.  I’m trying to find someone who can come over because she’ll behave if someone else is here.  DH is swamped at work because people are sick with the flu and he’s having to run interference.  It’s the perfect storm.

Edited February 25, 2019 by bethben

[maize]

This is an active Facebook group for parents of children with bipolar disorder, it might be worth joining if you think that is a potential diagnosis:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/276692175692925