Are college fraternities a “white boy” thing?

[ktgrok]

I was in a sorority at FSU, and had friends in Fraternities there as well. First, because I can hear my friend Eric saying every time I read a post here, it's a Fraternity, not a Frat, lol. As he not so gracefully put it, you don't abbreviate  "country" to just the first syllable, so don't do it with Fraternity ?

Anyway, honestly, it depends so much on both the individual school and the individual chapter. You really can't make sweeping generalizations as they are run totally differently on each campus. Truly. 

As for expenses, they will be given that information during Rush. In fact, I'm pretty sure that financial transparancy was one of the conditions of being allowed to operate on campus where I was. You got detailed information on a handout, so no worries about hidden fees. And after joining, yes there were the occasional small purchases, like buying a few very small things for a pledge below you or a big sister above you, but small - like a travel mug and some candy or something. Not more than you'd get your roommate in the dorm or whatever. Also, liviing in the sorority house was much less expensive than the dorms, and that helped balance out some of the membership fees. Pretty sure living in a Fraternity house was even cheaper. At my campus the sororities had house mothers that lived there, a meal plan with a cook, etc. (meal plan was mandatory to make sure people got together daily at the house) but the Fraternities had none of that. Again, that will vary depending on the campus. 

I saw NO hazing in my sorority, heard of some hazing in other sororities (but looking back it was more urban myth and probably just petty gossip about other sororities - things like one sorority forcing overweight sisters to do mandatory walks/exercise, that was seriously the worst I heard of even via rumor), and some in Fraternities but nothing life threatening, just stupid stuff.  I did hear a rumor of pledges to a fraternity being forced to swallow a goldfish, but to this day I'm not sure if that was true or a joke. My friends that joined did not have any hazing regarding alcohol and if that was found any fraternity would have been likely suspended from campus. 

The sororities were not allowed to have alcohol in the houses, the fraternities did. (run by different organizations, those were the organization rules not the school rules). And parties held off campus by sororities had to serve non alcoholic drinks if they served alcohol, had to have "non salty snacks" to avoid triggering people to drink more, etc. We also had a police officer come in each year to speak to the new members about the dangers of binge drinking as well as campus safety. 

My sorority did have mandatory study hours for every new member for the first year, some of which were on the honor system and some of which were monitored in the study room (open certain hours, always quiet, lots of desks, chairs, beanbags, and sisters took turns being the monitor who would sign off that you were there for however long). After your first year IF your GPA was high enough you no longer had mandatory hours, but if your grades dropped at any point you went back on mandatory study time.  We also got candy at the weekly chapter meetings if we attended all our classes. My grades were never as good as they were while in the sorority. Seriously, I will encourage my daughters to join one for that reason alone. I NEEDED that structure. We also kept a file cabinet of all the sisters' old tests so you could check those out and see how a professor tended to test his class. (this was well known by the professors, and not against the rules). Grades were a #1 priority, partly because at Rush when you were given a packet of info about each house it included the average GPA of the members. So people rushing were judging the sororities by their GPA. I have no idea if that info is given when rushing a Fraternity though. 

My only regret with joining a sorority are on me, not them. I have some face blindness, and didn't realize it at the time or know how to talk about it. So being in a house full of girls all the same age, all constantly swapping clothes (how I usually told people apart), all helping each other try new hairstyles (also how I told people apart), meant I had no idea who the heck anyone was most of the time. And was too embarrassed to tell people I didn't recognize them, so just kind of kept to myself. I REALLY regret this, probably one of my biggest regrets ever, actually. They were all very nice, and it still bugs me that I didn't take better advantage of the opportunity to make a lot of good friends. I ended up staying at my boyfriend's apartment most of the time, with his two friends, where I could recognize everyone ?

Anyway, it was a very positive thing. It was nothing like the stereotypes of Greek life. It was worth the money. It provided a lot of structure, a great chance to make friends (and they go for diversity, so there were athletes and bookworms and social butterflies  etc). It HEAVILY encouraged leadership - hugely. Weekly meetings were a way to learn to address issues in a civil way(the Fraternities had these too). And community service was of course a factor as well. 

But, again, this varies from place to place. At my sorority you had to live in the house for at least 2 years, other campuses don't even have houses, etc etc. And then even on a certain campus some things will vary, I'm sure. 

As for discrimination, when I rushed there were very few people of color that rushed with me. The next year there were a few more, and discrimination was actually brought up at a chapter meeting, in the context of "don't even think about discriminating based on skin color". We had people of various religions in the sorority, and actually, I don't think we even knew what religion someone was when they rushed. The fraternities seemed more diverse, perhaps at my school the traditionally black fraternities were less popular than the traditional black sororities, which were quite popular. Not sure. 

Finally, there is always the option of a service fraternity. Those are very different - no house, co-ed, etc but do help with making friends and such. I wanted a female only group though, so went with the traditional sorority. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Ktgrok

[BarbecueMom]

1 hour ago, Evanthe said:

 

What the heck brochure was this??  No!  Lol!  Dh (a Korean man) and I (not a white man) were both in a fraternity in college.  It was co-ed and the entire theme of the fraternity was service.  It's actually a pretty famous fraternity - there were US presidents who had been in our fraternity when they were in college.  Anyway, the fraternity had all kinds of people in it.  All we did was community service.  We did canned food drives, we built a "haunted house" and donated the ticket money to a community center...we worked at food banks, we collected eyeglasses (there's a charity that fixes them/cleans them and donates them)...  We had a few social events, but it was mostly "hey, let's go eat at this restaurant together" and it wasn't very often.  It was entirely community service-oriented.  

I think I was in the same one, but it's quite different from a social fraternity.  And we had many members who were also in social fraternities.  Membership in one does not preclude membership in another.  The national organization did not permit houses, either, although many of us were roommates off-campus.

It should be noted that any Greek letter organization with the word "fraternity" in their description isn't necessarily a social fraternity/sorority.  Some are service organizations or departmental groups. There's still technically rush and pledging and ritual and dues and all that, but it's not the same process as joining social frats.  The only thing remotely close to "hazing" I experienced was being taken out to breakfast at 6:30am... and I was tipped off ahead of time to make sure I didn't have any schedule conflicts like ROTC or work.  

[Splash1]

Both my husband and I  were part of the Greek system on campus.  It was one of my best decisions and added so much to my college experience.  For me it provided a smaller group of people to get to know, organized activities and fun events, ways to give back, etc.  I went to a large state university and didn't join my first year there.  I was overwhelmed by the size and couldn't seem to find a way integrate into the system (shy, introvert that likes to be busy and socialize).  It was just really overwhelming for me and I wasn't making close friendships (again I'm sure on me, I'm very reserved).  Being apart of a Sorority gave me the smaller group of girls to live with, bond with and have fun with.  I was not a party girl, didn't ever drink (very popular designated driver) and that was not a problem.  No hazing went on.  I worked hard to get top grades since the house only had four parking spaces and top grades got those, otherwise you parked down the street wherever you could find.  

Dh went through at the same time and also had a good experience.  He was also a college athlete so he already had team members but still says it was our best decision and made it so much more fun.  (he did not party at all, always about keeping his body in peak condition,  400 runner on a track scholarship he couldn't afford to lose)

My brother on the other hand flunked out of two colleges (where he pledged twice and never became a member because he couldn't make grades)  Third college/fraternity was a charm (that and some maturity).  He also now has a master's so as you see he finally figured out the whole school thing.  Not Fraternity's fault, my brother just hadn't learned how to manage life yet. (ADHD)

It wasn't that expensive from what I can remember, our house had a lot of girls who had to work and earn their own living expenses, etc.

I think it really depends on the college  and the kid.  

[Crimson Wife]

15 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I will say I don't get the whole thing.  I would strong discourage my kids from any of that.  Shrug, but what do I know.  

Career networking. The "good ol' boys/girls" network is alive and well. My DH has gotten jobs through some of his fraternity brothers. These days many if not most jobs are never advertised to the general public. If you don't know the right person, you'll never have a chance at the position.

I've seen examples of the networking among my sisters and members of the local alumnae group, even if I've not really taken advantage of it myself as a SAHM.

[Crimson Wife]

5 hours ago, Katy said:

I think in the South is less likely to have integrated sororities & fraternities, though I have absolutely no statistical data to back that up. 

I don't have statistical data to back this up, but seeing pledge class photos from various schools in my alumnae magazine I would agree that Northern and Western chapters are far more diverse than Southern and Midwestern ones (the latter is probably reflective of demographics in those states but the Southern ones could absolutely be more diverse if they made it a priority).

[Bootsie]

I was talking to a college student this week who said that the most expensive part of being in a sorority for her has been participating in rush as a sorority sister, rather than as a potential poledge. All of the sisters had to have similar clothing each day, down to the type of shoes.   So one day would be black sandals, another day would be white tennis shoes with pink shoe strings.  Because the rules were strict (no other color on the shoes), there wasn't much lead time, and she had an odd shoe size, it was not only a huge dollar investment, she found it a huge time commitment to get the proper attire.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jdahlquist said:

I was talking to a college student this week who said that the most expensive part of being in a sorority for her has been participating in rush as a sorority sister, rather than as a potential poledge. All of the sisters had to have similar clothing each day, down to the type of shoes.   So one day would be black sandals, another day would be white tennis shoes with pink shoe strings.  Because the rules were strict (no other color on the shoes), there wasn't much lead time, and she had an odd shoe size, it was not only a huge dollar investment, she found it a huge time commitment to get the proper attire.  

I have a feeling - though I could be wrong! - that guys in fraternities have fewer instances of having to buy specific outfits on short notice. I can see that being considered very important for sorority sisters, but less so for fraternity brothers. 

[Guest]

So, I was doing a little research this morning and one link I read was “Best National Fraternities.” (I’ll see if I can credit the link in a bit.) One of the fraternities that makes this list was Pi Kappa Alpha (Pike). The article said it was formed in 1868 at University of Virginia as a whites-only intentional segregation by race. (I am not sure how much sense this makes though because I can’t imagine there even were many/any non-whites on college campuses in 1868. I guess it could be that they wanted to establish it in case in the future black people wanted to join?) I don’t know; obviously this is no longer the endorsed position of the fraternity, but I would have concerns that that sentiment is still there, regardless of the official spoken party line. 

Another fraternity that was formed at almost the same time also at UVA was Kappa Sigma, and it is one of the largest nationally and does have a chapter at Towson U. They don’t claim to ever have been whites-only, but I am a little suspicious because it was formed at the same school and during the same time as Pike. Their sponsored charity is Military Heroes, which is something I expect would appeal to DS. It makes me wonder about some things, though...I’m picturing Confederate flags and lots of claims that one’s ancestors were confederate soldiers. Probably blowing that out of proportion, but it didn’t seem that way when the march on Charlottsville happened. 

[KungFuPanda]

Black fraternities and sororities provide a safe space and serve an important historical role. They can be a more attractive option to young black students who want to pledge. So while I’m positive some fraternities have racist pasts, a photo of an all white group doesn’t mean they’re turning people away today. They could be actively recruiting and not getting any bites. 

[skimomma]

2 hours ago, jdahlquist said:

I was talking to a college student this week who said that the most expensive part of being in a sorority for her has been participating in rush as a sorority sister, rather than as a potential poledge. All of the sisters had to have similar clothing each day, down to the type of shoes.   So one day would be black sandals, another day would be white tennis shoes with pink shoe strings.  Because the rules were strict (no other color on the shoes), there wasn't much lead time, and she had an odd shoe size, it was not only a huge dollar investment, she found it a huge time commitment to get the proper attire.  

 

This is going to vary so much by school and individual organization.  I was in a sorority and did not have this experience.  At all.  Being matchy matchy like that would not have been appealing to the members of my sorority.  Sometimes t-shirts for specific events were available for order but certainly not required.  And there were events where we dressed up (as in, no jeans), but that was about it.

There were costs outside of dues, most of which were optional.  In my case, dues were pretty low and rent to live in the house was so ridiculously low that even combined with dues, it was far cheaper to live in the house than the dorms.  Dues were outlined in detail before joining.

Race was never ever discussed during membership discussions.  The school had a low minority population but our own membership seemed to mirror the school's percentages on average.

But, there are no generalizations here.  Everything from costs to culture is going to vary widely, mostly based on school.

[scholastica]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

So, I was doing a little research this morning and one link I read was “Best National Fraternities.” (I’ll see if I can credit the link in a bit.) One of the fraternities that makes this list was Pi Kappa Alpha (Pike). The article said it was formed in 1868 at University of Virginia as a whites-only intentional segregation by race. (I am not sure how much sense this makes though because I can’t imagine there even were many/any non-whites on college campuses in 1868. I guess it could be that they wanted to establish it in case in the future black people wanted to join?) I don’t know; obviously this is no longer the endorsed position of the fraternity, but I would have concerns that that sentiment is still there, regardless of the official spoken party line. 

Another fraternity that was formed at almost the same time also at UVA was Kappa Sigma, and it is one of the largest nationally and does have a chapter at Towson U. They don’t claim to ever have been whites-only, but I am a little suspicious because it was formed at the same school and during the same time as Pike. Their sponsored charity is Military Heroes, which is something I expect would appeal to DS. It makes me wonder about some things, though...I’m picturing Confederate flags and lots of claims that one’s ancestors were confederate soldiers. Probably blowing that out of proportion, but it didn’t seem that way when the march on Charlottsville happened. 

My dh is a Kappa Sig. He attended two different universities and the chapters were vastly different. My dh is most definitely not a racist. He has never heard that there were any intentions of racial segregation. Not to say that I didn’t overhear racist opinions from some of his fraternity brothers. But it was the ‘90’s in the South. It was not uncommon to hear racist things. It was one of the things that shocked me coming from the Northeast. 

[Katy]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

So, I was doing a little research this morning and one link I read was “Best National Fraternities.” (I’ll see if I can credit the link in a bit.) One of the fraternities that makes this list was Pi Kappa Alpha (Pike). The article said it was formed in 1868 at University of Virginia as a whites-only intentional segregation by race. (I am not sure how much sense this makes though because I can’t imagine there even were many/any non-whites on college campuses in 1868. I guess it could be that they wanted to establish it in case in the future black people wanted to join?) I don’t know; obviously this is no longer the endorsed position of the fraternity, but I would have concerns that that sentiment is still there, regardless of the official spoken party line. 

Another fraternity that was formed at almost the same time also at UVA was Kappa Sigma, and it is one of the largest nationally and does have a chapter at Towson U. They don’t claim to ever have been whites-only, but I am a little suspicious because it was formed at the same school and during the same time as Pike. Their sponsored charity is Military Heroes, which is something I expect would appeal to DS. It makes me wonder about some things, though...I’m picturing Confederate flags and lots of claims that one’s ancestors were confederate soldiers. Probably blowing that out of proportion, but it didn’t seem that way when the march on Charlottsville happened. 

 

It took years after the civil war to legislate segregation.  I no longer remember the books, but I remember being assigned at least one book in high school about a handful of (relatively) upper class black people right after the civil war.  They were already illegally educated, many of them had inheritance from rich white fathers who loved their mothers and who treated them like their secret children instead of like slaves. They went straight into Southern universities and did quite well until a backlash later that stripped their rights, which I think is what led to some of the historically black colleges to be founded. I don't remember enough details to point to specific resources. My point is, I think it is reasonable that not only were some of the students at the time black, it's probably reasonable that they were the acknowledged children of fathers who had been in fraternities, and if they were somehow forced to accept them as legacy students, it's very possible new groups were formed as old groups were disbanded. Which hopefully doesn't have anything to do with any group's culture today but it certainly might.

[Tsuga]

Did not read the thread.

Frats are not only white but tend to be segregated because they center around social class.

My limited experience is that service-oriented and religious fraternities tend to be more diverse, but that might be geographic because here the church seems to be way less white than society in general.

[Janeway]

No, they are not. However, some colleges have fraternities meant for black people only really and as a result, a large portion of the black men wanting to go Greek will go there. But not all. I have known of plenty of men of a variety of races in the rest of the fraternities. My niece is in a sorority right now and I referred to her sorority page and it is a very diverse group.

[Bluegoat]

15 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Black fraternities and sororities provide a safe space and serve an important historical role. They can be a more attractive option to young black students who want to pledge. So while I’m positive some fraternities have racist pasts, a photo of an all white group doesn’t mean they’re turning people away today. They could be actively recruiting and not getting any bites. 

 

This kind of thing can be a culture thing too. At a lot of the universities here, non-white students seem to just not have a tradition of that sort of thing.  Lots of non-white students are overseas students and don't seem to care or be interested.  Some Asian kids will join but usually not first generation kids, and black students similarly if they do, they are not usually first generation university students.  There are also groups like the African-Canadian student group or Muslim student group which seem to fulfill some of the roles people might look for in a fraternity or sorority.