Making peace with a neighbor

[JIN MOUSA]

I've got a sticky situation with a neighbor that I'd like to try to make right. Please be gentle - I'm not claiming I didn't make a mistake, just trying to figure out what I can do from here.

We moved in to our house a few years ago. We spent a few years doing some work on the house itself, and now I've turned my attention to the yard. On one side, we have a few feet of garden space between our driveway and the neighbor's yard. It currently has an old wire fence and a mess of plants. Mixed in among the plants, with their trunks on my side of the fence, are some invasive large shrubs/small trees. I'd like to clean up this bit of garden and plant some nice things (versus the mess of stuff encroaching on our driveway). I double checked my survey (shows the fence on my property) and identified the invasive plants using multiple pictures and descriptions from our local botanical garden. 

I agree that I should have at least mentioned to my neighbor that I was planning on getting rid of the invasive plants. I failed to do that. Now she's super angry with me because she says I've destroyed her yard and the privacy hedge that was between our driveway and her front yard. 

I put a couple of 7 ft tall garden trellises against the fence and planted a few (non-invasive) vines that should quickly grow to cover the trellises and parts of the old fence, to replace some of the privacy. 

She pulled out her survey, and I pulled out mine. They show the fence on my property, but according to her, it's hers. She also doesn't think the plant is invasive.

She seems to think I reached over *her* fence and cut down a tree on her property. She also is upset that others of the invasive plants have been dying. She's upset about how the previous owner of our house trimmed the sides that were  over the fence, or she seems to think I've been putting an herbicide on them to kill them. I told her that I haven't been using any chemicals.

She's also apparently upset about a tree that we had to have removed when we moved in a few years ago. We had a good local tree company come check everything, and a tree (wholly on my property) was in danger of falling on the house. The plan to remove the tree was submitted through the city and approved. Before the work was done, I went over to introduce myself to her and let her know what was going to be happening. Now she says that I just chopped that tree down and didn't discuss it with her. 

I apologized for not talking to her about the work I did this weekend. I tried to explain my side more, but the only way out of the conversation was an admission of her being right and me being wrong. 

I'm trying to figure out if there's anything I can do to be on good terms with her. Obviously I'm not going to touch anything else along the property line for quite a while. Then I'll discuss it with her before doing anything. 
 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The best thing you could do would be to stop apologizing - she already thinks she has more say in what happens on YOUR side of the property line than she should - and keep working on those privacy fences and trellises. Keep yourselves to yourselves, keep up your place, and give her time.

Maybe after some time goes by, look for ways to be neighborly that do not involve discussions of how you manage your yard.

[Carol in Cal.]

She might be a loony, grouchy person.

She might just be misinformed, sad at losing the tree and shrubbery that made the place so much more pleasant, and judgy about you for being what made that happen.

Either way, you have to decide how neighborly you want to be.  It's neighborly to be pleasant, to share from your garden, to let people know if you are going to make some noise or change the appearance of your property to them.  It's not legally or morally obligatory not to do that stuff, but it's not neighborly either.  So that's your first thing.

If you want to have a good relationship, I dunno, that might be a bridge too far; but consistently being neighborly AND making friendly but brief conversation every time you see her would be the way I would start.  At this point, I wouldn't apologize further about not letting her know about what you did, but I might invite her to a neighborhood barbeque this summer or bring her a plate of cookies the next time you make some, and just low key be positive and see what develops.  

I have made more friends on my block by bringing people apricots from our tree -- I think I'm the only person who everyone is pleasant to.  (We have a somewhat contentious block with a lot economic disparity and some general nastiness of various types, unfortunately.)

[itsheresomewhere]

I live next to one of these.  Even got upset over the removal of a dead tree in the middle of our yard. You are not going to make her happy no matter what you do.   Even if you told her well in advance, she would still be all upset.  

What has worked for me is to find a way to make what we did as improvement to compliment her yard.  “. Look at how happy your ( insert whatever flower/bush here) is now that is can grow.  It is such a lovely plant.”  “My how much bigger your house looks now that we can see it”.  Rinse, repeat and good luck.  Neighbor does still complain sometimes but it falls on deaf ears. Don’t let her stop you from gardening, she will think she say over your yard.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Do you live next to my mother?  J/K  Seriously, though, plants are like pets to some people, and they get highly offended when people mess with their pet plants, no matter whose property they're on.  It's a no win situation.  Do what you want with your property.  

[Stibalfamily]

Please don't apologize to a bully! If both surveys show the fence is on your property, I'm not sure why her opinion matters. If she is disputing it, she needs some proof. Other than that, I wouldn't really care much. Don't let yourself be pushed around. If it's your property Im not sure why you are seeking your neighbors input or permission. Maybe that's not a "neighborly" attitude. She's lucky I'm not her neighbor, I'd let her know where she can stick her opinions from then on. ?

Also, on a related note, I'm on a diet and I get notoriously grouchy on them. Pretty much no one will make eye contact with me right now ?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

1 minute ago, Stibalfamily said:

Please don't apologize to a bully! If both surveys show the fence is on your property, I'm not sure why her opinion matters. If she is disputing it, she needs some proof. Other than that, I wouldn't really care much. Don't let yourself be pushed around. If it's your property Im not sure why you are seeking your neighbors input or permission. Maybe that's not a "neighborly" attitude. She's lucky I'm not her neighbor, I'd let her know where she can stick her opinions from then on. ?

Also, on a related note, I'm on a diet and I get notoriously grouchy on them. Pretty much no one will make eye contact with me right now ?

 

This made me laugh. "Dear neighbor, say it with chocolate, or don't say it at all!"

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, JIN MOUSA said:

She seems to think I reached over *her* fence and cut down a tree on her property. She also is upset that others of the invasive plants have been dying. She's upset about how the previous owner of our house trimmed the sides that were  over the fence,

what is the invasive plant?  the bolded has me confused.  are there more of this invasive plants with stems in her yard - that reach over the fence to your yard?   and the neighbor trimmed them?  if they were suckers from the main tree, cutting down the main tree could kill them - you're not the former owner, you don't want those trees, the trunks were on your property so you had the right to cut them down.

do you know how long the fence has been there - DO NOT TAKE DOWN THE FENCE before this is resolved.  legally  - at least in some jurisdictions - the fence line can make a property survey irrelevant under adverse possession. (here - it's seven years and a property line can become moot.)  surveyors can also disagree about property lines. whether she realizes it or not,  she is claiming the fence in on her property.  (I don't think I would suggest that to her - she sounds too unreasonable.)

I'm not sure anything can be done.  however, to try and repair the relationship, I'd bring her some goodies - and a sketch of what you are doing  with your beds/placement and some information on what plants you are putting in. (which is gracious - but certainly not required of a neighbor)  she can like it - or not.  if she doesn't, just move on.  say hi to her when she's outside.   compliment her on her flowers/yard - or something you can think of.  take it slowly. occasionally make a batch of cookies, and take over some  because you thought she'd enjoy them.  etc.  just try to be neighborly.  sometimes people are this way because they are afraid of change, or lonely, or bored.   like coaxing a scared animal - just take your time.

just to reassure you, you are not responsible for her privacy along the fence line.

 

 

eta: and I agree - STOP apologizing for what you do on your property.

[lavender's green]

Neighbors who feel slighted by something you've done with your own property have very long memories, in my experience. My neighborhood was built 20 years ago, and many, many people on Nextdoor who are one street over are still doing and saying petty things because "we" built our houses "right in their back yards." Nevermind that I was ten years old and had never so much as dreamed of living in this state, and yeah people were totally trying to personally irritate you by building right behind your tiny lot, which any idiot could look up the city planning map for and say "Oh hey, City has okayed building on that lot right behind me and it's going to be a tiny lot just like mine, so the house will be a stone's throw away." Same with my in-laws. Still moaning about people legally building on their own property decades(!) ago.

As realtors say, "location, location, location." If you don't own it, you have no say over it. We actually almost bought a house around the corner that was on the end of a dead-end road and was objectively better, at the time, than the one we ended up with. But we did our due diligence, saw that the large farm property on the other side of the dead end was up for sale and was zoned for apartment buildings. Guess what? 6 years later and the City is determined to make that road a through-way with apartments at the other end. Traffic will be awful and they'll have hundreds of new neighbors. Turns out we bought the better house after all. Sure, we have a bunch of houses who are a stone's-throw away and have a slightly busier road (for now, anyway), but at least we knew that going into it.

This is why property lines exist.

I wouldn't do much to appease them any more. I've just never known an angry neighbor to drop it. But do toe the line regarding pets, trash, grass length, etc.

[Tanaqui]

Quote

Now she says that I just chopped that tree down and didn't discuss it with her. 

 

...which was your moral right to do.

Quote

I apologized for not talking to her about the work I did this weekend. I tried to explain my side more, but the only way out of the conversation was an admission of her being right and me being wrong. 

 

Stop apologizing to this neighbor, and don't discuss your yardwork with her. It's none of her business, but if you let her talk about it with you you're sending the message that it IS her business. If she wants to complain about the property line, tell her to get a new survey done. Don't argue with her, just say that you're sure you were on your property, but if she disagrees she can get a new survey done. If she wants to complain about your weeding, say that you don't intend to discuss it, and then walk away. Don't explain why it was necessary or try to defend yourself - your behavior was perfectly proper and legal, and she knows it. If you argue with her, you fuel her indignation.

And if I were you, I'd start putting aside money now to replace that wire fence with a brick wall, 6 feet or higher. You can espalier some fruit trees against it.

[laundrycrisis]

I would just stop talking to her at all and plant what you want.  If she thinks she has a legal case, she can try to find a lawyer who agrees.  

When you find yourself in a relationship that has you second guessing yourself and apologizing for stuff that wasn't wrong and walking on eggshells, there is only one way to get out of it  - stomp on all the eggs !  Make sure your survey is right, and just do it. 

[Jyhwkmama]

I would pay for a survey with stakes. You need to know 100% what is your property.

[Spryte]

1 hour ago, Jyhwkmama said:

I would pay for a survey with stakes. You need to know 100% what is your property.

 

I like that idea, and I also like making peace.  Always in favor of that.  

Though your neighbor may not want peace, and that is her issue.  Not yours.  Some people don’t.

We lived trying to make peace with a neighbor for 15 years, and never succeeded in a way that stuck.  She was my “project” for years.  We shoveled her snow, raked her leaves, toddler made her valentines, we delivered cookies and took meals when she was sick, which was a lot.  At one point, she was car-less and we had a reliable old car that had been passed around (a 1989 Volvo!) ... we sold it to her for a $1 so she didn’t have to walk through snow to work.  All of that, for years and years, and I finally realized she was just a negative, gossipy, sort of mean person.  She had mental health issues and was struggling with Hep C.  She had no friends, no family.  Just no one, and it broke my heart.  Boy, was she mean to us though.  I finally gave up, after some nastiness that we just couldn’t overlook.  We moved, and I heard she died shortly after.  So sad.

Don’t go through all that.  Seriously, I did backflips trying to make that lady feel some joy or peace.  

Be neighborly, be kind, but have boundaries and don’t apologize for things that are ok.  Making changes on your property is ok!  

Since there’s a question re: the property line, a survey with stakes is a great idea.  Tell her ahead of time that you’re doing it, so that you don’t encroach on her property.

Wishing you peace and good boundaries. And hoping a beautiful privacy fence is in your future!

[JIN MOUSA]

19 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

what is the invasive plant?  the bolded has me confused.  are there more of this invasive plants with stems in her yard - that reach over the fence to your yard?   and the neighbor trimmed them?  if they were suckers from the main tree, cutting down the main tree could kill them - you're not the former owner, you don't want those trees, the trunks were on your property so you had the right to cut them down.

do you know how long the fence has been there - DO NOT TAKE DOWN THE FENCE before this is resolved.  legally  - at least in some jurisdictions - the fence line can make a property survey irrelevant under adverse possession. (here - it's seven years and a property line can become moot.)  surveyors can also disagree about property lines. whether she realizes it or not,  she is claiming the fence in on her property.  (I don't think I would suggest that to her - she sounds too unreasonable.)

 I'm not sure anything can be done.  however, to try and repair the relationship, I'd bring her some goodies - and a sketch of what you are doing  with your beds/placement and some information on what plants you are putting in. (which is gracious - but certainly not required of a neighbor)  she can like it - or not.  if she doesn't, just move on.  say hi to her when she's outside.   compliment her on her flowers/yard - or something you can think of.  take it slowly. occasionally make a batch of cookies, and take over some  because you thought she'd enjoy them.  etc.  just try to be neighborly.  sometimes people are this way because they are afraid of change, or lonely, or bored.   like coaxing a scared animal - just take your time.

just to reassure you, you are not responsible for her privacy along the fence line.

 

 

eta: and I agree - STOP apologizing for what you do on your property.

It's bush honeysuckle, and there are a slew of them planted along the fence. I haven't gone digging in the overgrown mess down the whole property line to see if they're all on my property on not (she says they're all on her property ...). And yeah, the fence isn't really on my list of priorities, so rather than stirring up more stuff, I'm just leaving that one alone for now. 

 

17 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

...which was your moral right to do.

 

Stop apologizing to this neighbor, and don't discuss your yardwork with her. It's none of her business, but if you let her talk about it with you you're sending the message that it IS her business. If she wants to complain about the property line, tell her to get a new survey done. Don't argue with her, just say that you're sure you were on your property, but if she disagrees she can get a new survey done. If she wants to complain about your weeding, say that you don't intend to discuss it, and then walk away. Don't explain why it was necessary or try to defend yourself - your behavior was perfectly proper and legal, and she knows it. If you argue with her, you fuel her indignation.

And if I were you, I'd start putting aside money now to replace that wire fence with a brick wall, 6 feet or higher. You can espalier some fruit trees against it.

A large privacy fence would be nice ... but my city is insane and the maximum height for a fence from the street to the back corner of the house is 4', and brick is definitely not allowed. The fence is also a larger project that really wasn't on our radar, and especially if it comes with a side of drama, I'll just leave it be. Fortunately we don't have dogs or other critters we need to keep contained in the yard. 

 

14 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

I have no advice, but can I just say that I think it is wonderful that you want to come to peace?  It's so easy to slap at the world leaders about their inability to do so when we are so unable to at our own level.  It is people who seek peace where they can have an effect that will make peace in the world.  :::heart:::

Thank you for your kind words. I've really been feeling torn up about this. 

 

2 hours ago, Spryte said:

 

I like that idea, and I also like making peace.  Always in favor of that.  

Though your neighbor may not want peace, and that is her issue.  Not yours.  Some people don’t.

We lived trying to make peace with a neighbor for 15 years, and never succeeded in a way that stuck.  She was my “project” for years.  We shoveled her snow, raked her leaves, toddler made her valentines, we delivered cookies and took meals when she was sick, which was a lot.  At one point, she was car-less and we had a reliable old car that had been passed around (a 1989 Volvo!) ... we sold it to her for a $1 so she didn’t have to walk through snow to work.  All of that, for years and years, and I finally realized she was just a negative, gossipy, sort of mean person.  She had mental health issues and was struggling with Hep C.  She had no friends, no family.  Just no one, and it broke my heart.  Boy, was she mean to us though.  I finally gave up, after some nastiness that we just couldn’t overlook.  We moved, and I heard she died shortly after.  So sad.

Don’t go through all that.  Seriously, I did backflips trying to make that lady feel some joy or peace.  

Be neighborly, be kind, but have boundaries and don’t apologize for things that are ok.  Making changes on your property is ok!  

Since there’s a question re: the property line, a survey with stakes is a great idea.  Tell her ahead of time that you’re doing it, so that you don’t encroach on her property.

Wishing you peace and good boundaries. And hoping a beautiful privacy fence is in your future!

Thank you for the advice. Normally I do fine with emotional boundaries, but this is new territory for me. 

[sassenach]

I think you're getting bulldozed by her. You have the absolute right to do whatever you want to your property. You don't have to get any approval from her. Stop apologizing and stop running things by her first. It's not her property.

[SKL]

While I agree with letting her know about work you're planning to do that affects her quality of life in any way, I would stop trying to talk to her until she shows she can talk rationally.

Next time I would place a note in her mailbox to inform her politely what you are going to do.  If it requires any kind of permission from an outside entity, attach a copy of the permit to your note.

Does she always ask you first before she does any work on her own property?