Selectively choose DE classes to list on transcript? Yes or No?

[my2boysteacher]

We are getting ready to apply to colleges and finishing all the paperwork. My son will have a couple dozen dual enrolled courses from a community college he took through high school.  If he took two social studies classes (or computer classes, or whatever) in one year, can I just take the one with the higher grade to put on his transcript, or will that look suspicious if we have ALL his courses transferred over to his college. Would anyone even know we didn't put them all on the transcript? 

[Roadrunner]

I believe he will need to supply the transcript from the CC, so all the classes need to be listed.

[yvonne]

If he was enrolled at the community college, which I assume he was, the Common App will require you to upload his transcript from the community college. You won't be able to choose which classes and grades to include.

That's one potential risk of DE courses... the student is stuck with those grades, and you'll have to submit that transcript. 

[Matryoshka]

You have to submit a complete transcript of any college classes he takes, directly from the other college. So, yes, they will know if you leave them off.

[my2boysteacher]

6 minutes ago, yvonne said:

If he was enrolled at the community college, which I assume he was, the Common App will require you to upload his transcript from the community college. You won't be able to choose which classes and grades to include.

That's one potential risk of DE courses... the student is stuck with those grades, and you'll have to submit that transcript. 

I'm not familiar with Common App.  The college we talked to didn't mention that, just told him to apply on their website? 

[regentrude]

He will be required to submit the official college transcript; all classes are listed on there, so I would not cherry pick for the transcript.

[my2boysteacher]

Thanks everyone.  He's our first so this is the first time we are dealing with this.  The college he likes guaranteed he would be accepted based on his high ACT score, so we were looking at Merit scholarships and how much of a difference he would get between having a 3.6 versus a 3.8.  A couple thousands dollars difference, but not a deal breaker. 

[regentrude]

8 minutes ago, my2boysteacher said:

Thanks everyone.  He's our first so this is the first time we are dealing with this.  The college he likes guaranteed he would be accepted based on his high ACT score, so we were looking at Merit scholarships and how much of a difference he would get between having a 3.6 versus a 3.8.  A couple thousands dollars difference, but not a deal breaker. 

You are free to weight grades in your homeschool. Some schools give additional points for college or AP classes. The college he is applying to may decide to use your weighted GPA, or they may decide to unweight the grades.

[yvonne]

5 minutes ago, my2boysteacher said:

Thanks everyone.  He's our first so this is the first time we are dealing with this.  The college he likes guaranteed he would be accepted based on his high ACT score, so we were looking at Merit scholarships and how much of a difference he would get between having a 3.6 versus a 3.8.  A couple thousands dollars difference, but not a deal breaker. 

The first time through the process is so anxiety-provoking.  If he is already guaranteed acceptance, you're set! 

Do not cherry pick DE classes and grades. It is not worth the risk. They will definitely find out because you will have to send the official transcript, whether you do Common App or not. It could put his admission and any merit scholarships he does get at risk.

 

[my2boysteacher]

This is a good point, I will need to look into this further as he is doing some honor level classes. 

[Corraleno]

The first thing I'd do is check with the college that offered the acceptance, to see if they use unweighted grades, or re-weight them with their own formula, or take whatever weighted GPA you give them. If they re-weight with their own formula, I'd use that. If they take whatever GPA you give them, it's common to weight DE and AP courses a full point, so an A in a DE class would be worth 5 points, a B would be worth 4 points (same as an A in a regular high school level class), etc. I would put all the DE courses on his transcript (which you have to report anyway) and then calculate a weighted GPA giving an extra point to all DE classes; some schools also give an extra half-point for Honors classes.

[my2boysteacher]

Thank you, Corraleno. That is so helpful.

[teachermom2834]

I agree to list everything on the high school transcript for all the reasons above. Most schools we have looked at used the weighted GPA we provided or weighted according to their own formula giving a full quality point for DE. If your ds has that many de classes he should be in good shape once weighted even if a few had lower grades. 

Another thought is that in my state it is common practice to bump up the grade a letter grade from college transcript to high school transcript. So, a B in a de class is listed as an A on the high school transcript. I haven’t done this, as mine have had only a stray B or so in de and it didn’t hurt them. But, I think colleges in my region are used to seeing this as a common practice and it wouldn’t be a problem. It probably would make no difference good or bad (it seems like double dipping to me- a kid gets a B in a de class, it gets listed as an A, and then someone looks at it and weights it as a de class and now the kid as 5 quality points for a B). It makes sense as a way of weighting in am unweighted transcript scenario I guess. But, the college is going to get the official transcript so they will know anyway. So you aren’t hiding anything. Just seems easier to list the official grade earned.  

[JanetC]

The main reason to leave DE courses off a high school transcript is to get around a "no double-dipping" rule like this one:

http://college.lclark.edu/offices/admissions/apply/high_school_college_credit/

In this case, you might put a lower-level course on the high school transcript for high school credit and leave a follow-on course off the high school transcript so it counts for transfer credit.

Leaving courses off the high school transcript simply because you didn't like the grade received would not be appropriate.

[yvonne]

6 hours ago, JanetC said:

The main reason to leave DE courses off a high school transcript is to get around a "no double-dipping" rule like this one:

http://college.lclark.edu/offices/admissions/apply/high_school_college_credit/

In this case, you might put a lower-level course on the high school transcript for high school credit and leave a follow-on course off the high school transcript so it counts for transfer credit.

Leaving courses off the high school transcript simply because you didn't like the grade received would not be appropriate.

 

Janet, So it is allowable to leave DE courses off a transcript for college admissions?  If one course is reported on the college app, whether for high school credit or toward transfer credit, the college will receive a transcript for all the courses, right?  It wouldn't raise a red flag for admissions to see some courses not reported on the transcript? 

And would withholding certain courses and keeping them in reserve, as it were, for transfer credit, could that affect one's freshman status at other colleges?  Or have you found L&C's policy standard across colleges?

Another question that comes up among irl friends about whether the student can take a DE course (or several) and then decide not to report ANY of the courses if s/he gets a low grade that s/he doesn't want to include on the transcript. I'd always assumed that would be unethical since the Common App specifically asks you to list all courses taken from another institution. But, if the student doesn't need a course for high school graduation or college admissions, maybe his/her DE courses could be considered more as pursuing a hobby/interest &, therefore, not something s/he would have to report?  It seems too risky to me, but I'm curious.

[JanetC]

L&C's policy is pretty rare. 

If you didn't report "extra" DE credits beyond what is needed for high school graduation on the high school transcript, I would include a prominent explanation why in the school profile.

I would still include the complete college transcript in the Common App, for all colleges attended.

I didn't attempt to distinguish between DE courses applied towards high school graduation requirements versus electives in my own materials. It seemed like the simpler path was just to report everything, then write a separate document explaining which DE courses were applied to high school graduation requirements if needed. And I didn't need it.

[yvonne]

1 minute ago, JanetC said:

I didn't attempt to distinguish between DE courses applied towards high school graduation requirements versus electives in my own materials. It seemed like the simpler path was just to report everything, then write a separate document explaining which DE courses were applied to high school graduation requirements if needed. And I didn't need it.

Including it all and then separately explaining which courses applied to hs grad reqmts seems a lot safer. Then there's no risk of looking like one tried to hide anything.

Sorry for the tangent, OP! Back to the regularly scheduled programming!

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, yvonne said:

And would withholding certain courses and keeping them in reserve, as it were, for transfer credit, could that affect one's freshman status at other colleges?  Or have you found L&C's policy standard across colleges?

Another question that comes up among irl friends about whether the student can take a DE course (or several) and then decide not to report ANY of the courses if s/he gets a low grade that s/he doesn't want to include on the transcript. I'd always assumed that would be unethical since the Common App specifically asks you to list all courses taken from another institution. But, if the student doesn't need a course for high school graduation or college admissions, maybe his/her DE courses could be considered more as pursuing a hobby/interest &, therefore, not something s/he would have to report?  It seems too risky to me, but I'm curious.

With both my kids' application processes, I have not come across any college that had such a policy.

All colleges, however, have asked for a complete list of all college courses and official transcripts. So, they will see ALL courses, including those with low grades. 

A non selective college is not going to care about those courses. For a selective college, low grades will raise a red flag, even if the courses are considered "hobby/interest" - they indicate that the student was not ready for college level work. 

[my2boysteacher]

I appreciate everyone's comments.  I've wondered  how his DE classes would affect college acceptance and scholarship.  He is determined to get his Associate degree in computer science before he graduates high school. I believe he is on schedule to graduate with his Associate degree summer after his senior year.  

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, my2boysteacher said:

I appreciate everyone's comments.  I've wondered  how his DE classes would affect college acceptance and scholarship.  He is determined to get his Associate degree in computer science before he graduates high school. I believe he is on schedule to graduate with his Associate degree summer after his senior year.  

He needs to verify with the college he plans on attending that he can take classes after he graduates and still maintain freshman status and scholarships. Some schools will consider a student who takes even a single course after graduation a transfer student which makes them ineligible for freshman scholarships.

[my2boysteacher]

Thank you for mentioning this, we were just talking about it.  You're right, we'll have to make sure he's done before he graduates high school. 

[Bristayl]

23 hours ago, yvonne said:

So it is allowable to leave DE courses off a transcript for college admissions?  If one course is reported on the college app, whether for high school credit or toward transfer credit, the college will receive a transcript for all the courses, right?  It wouldn't raise a red flag for admissions to see some courses not reported on the transcript? 

 

I haven't actually submitted a transcript yet, but my plan is to have a separate section on the transcript labeled "Concurrent enrollment--not used for high school credits" for college courses that aren't being used for high school requirements. I will include the grades on that list, but will not average them into the high school GPA. That way, I'm reporting all the classes, but making it clear which were counted for high school and which were not.

[Bristayl]

The reason I am separating some of the DE courses is because a couple of the colleges to which DD plans to apply state clearly that they will not accept a course for transfer credit if it was counted toward high school graduation requirements.