bibiche Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 If ever you wanted to learn how to say "shithole" in other languages, today is the day that its translation features prominently on the front page of newspapers throughout the world! 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ailaena Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I had no idea what you were talking about but I was intrigued. Now I’m... “sad†isn’t exactly the word. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Unsurprisingly, the newspaper I read just used "shithole countries" in quotes, both in the header, and in the rest of the article: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/01/12/trump-wil-geen-immigranten-uit-shithole-countries-in-afrika-a1588119 Okay, this newspaper does slightly better - they do translate in the article, though "achterlijke landen" would more accurately mean "retarded countries" or "backward countries", but more likely the former than the latter, so, be careful with whether that translation works in other circumstances (which, of course, is a warning for w/e other languages you might look at too): https://www.ad.nl/buitenland/vn-reageren-gebeten-op-shitholes-van-trump~a1db954f/ This one does the same thing: http://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1532639/trump-ontkent-dat-hij-sprak-over-shitholes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiche Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Unsurprisingly, the newspaper I read just used "shithole countries" in quotes, both in the header, and in the rest of the article: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/01/12/trump-wil-geen-immigranten-uit-shithole-countries-in-afrika-a1588119 Okay, this newspaper does slightly better - they do translate in the article, though "achterlijke landen" would more accurately mean "retarded countries" or "backward countries", but more likely the former than the latter, so, be careful with whether that translation works in other circumstances (which, of course, is a warning for w/e other languages you might look at too): https://www.ad.nl/buitenland/vn-reageren-gebeten-op-shitholes-van-trump~a1db954f/ This one does the same thing: http://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1532639/trump-ontkent-dat-hij-sprak-over-shitholes Le Figaro translates it as "pays de merde". Haiti's Le Nouvelliste went with a more literal translation ("trou de merde"). Here's a Spanish paper (Diario de Sevilla) with a more literal translation of "agujeros de mierda." El Salvador's La Prensa Grafica also went with that translation. As did Argentina's La Prensa. Guatemala's La Prensa Libre. preferred to go with 'paises de mierda," as did Mexico City's La Prensa. A more discreet Portuguese paper refers to "retrete [toilet] de m*." Italy's Il Giornale is also more discreet. ("posti di m...") I'm just getting started in my search, but finding the slightly different translations interesting. Edited January 12, 2018 by bibiche 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiche Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Can we keep the political nonsense on the political board please? It’s obnoxious. Just trying to make lemonade from lemons. Might as well turn an embarrassment into an educational experience. :) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just trying to make lemonade from lemons. Might as well turn an embarrassment into an educational experience. :) It's linguistics (or lexicography, or w/e): https://korystamper.wordpress.com/2018/01/11/down-the-shithole-why-lexicographers-need-your-profanity/ And, as the article notes, it's not who said it, but that newspapers printed it, mostly without asterisks. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just checked 2 major European papers and didn't see anything. But I can follow the links luuknam posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 It's linguistics (or lexicography, or w/e): https://korystamper.wordpress.com/2018/01/11/down-the-shithole-why-lexicographers-need-your-profanity/ And, as the article notes, it's not who said it, but that newspapers printed it, mostly without asterisks. Thanks, that was really interesting. I hadn't thought a lot about how lexicographers go about deciding on a word's register. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Le Figaro translates it as "pays de merde". Haiti's Le Nouvelliste went with a more literal translation ("trou de merde"). Here's a Spanish paper (Diario de Sevilla) with a more literal translation of "agujeros de mierda." El Salvador's La Prensa Grafica also went with that translation. As did Argentina's La Prensa. Guatemala's La Prensa Libre. preferred to go with 'paises de mierda," as did Mexico City's La Prensa. A more discreet Portuguese paper refers to "retrete [toilet] de m*." Italy's Il Giornale is also more discreet. ("posti di m...") I'm just getting started in my search, but finding the slightly different translations interesting. I think it may be that the translation of sh!t doesn't have the same register in every language. Some languages and/or countries use other terms as their go-to derogatory adjective. Those places are much more likely to print its verbatim translation than a place where it's a strongly derogatory term. Edited January 12, 2018 by chiguirre 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just checked 2 major European papers and didn't see anything. But I can follow the links luuknam posted. I had to dig a bit, because it's already a little way down the news cycle there. Der Spiegel has multiple articles about it, e.g.: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/shithole-countries-donald-trump-soll-haiti-und-teile-afrikas-drecksloecher-genannt-haben-a-1187414.html Apparently the word there is Dreckslöcher (filthholes, I think). Le Monde went with "pays de merde" (shit countries): http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/article/2018/01/12/trump-traite-haiti-et-des-nations-africaines-de-pays-de-merde_5240652_3222.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I am often interested in whether a particular, specific word, exists in other languages. I study Torah with two or more translations open, and there are very often telling differences in the English lens through which the words come; and I also, more occasionally, attempt laboriously to practice Spanish by holding Neruda or Juan Felipe Herrera with side-by-side Spanish-English translations. It can be telling -- culturally revealing -- what particular words exist vs need multi-word workarounds to translate. Aside from the translation issues, I am also interested, even just in the US press, which media outlets go the pearl-clutching "we cannot use that word, the children!" route, which choose the asterisked / in quotes middle ground, and which opt to tell it like it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 The German magazine Spiegel.de used a weaker term that translates into dirt holes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Interesting thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Looked at a lot of Russian newspapers before finding anything (doesn't help that I'm only at the beginning of Unit 10 for Russian Rosetta Stone): https://www.rg.ru/2018/01/12/tramp-priznal-upotreblenie-zhestkih-vyrazhenij-v-otnoshenii-immigrantov.html "Ñтран-гадюшников" Unfortunately, Google doesn't know what the latter part means (the first part is "countries"). Okay, there's this: https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/гадюшник Which lists "unpleasant, ugly place" as its 3rd meaning (the other meanings have to do with snakes or taverns or a collective in which relations of mutual hostility, hostility, intrigue, etc. have been established???): ETA: odd highlighting because of copy&paste. https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fru.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2Fгадюшник&edit-text=&act=url Edited January 12, 2018 by luuknam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Just trying to make lemonade from lemons. Might as well turn an embarrassment into an educational experience. :) Yeah! I was looking at people posting pictures on facebook and instagram of their supposed shitholes. The ones from Haiti were breathtaking. The sea was so blue and the beaches were pristine. It led me on to Conde Nast and other Travel websites who have their own take on what is being talked about and absolutely gorgeous pictures. Consider this as a lesson in geography and other cultures as well. ETA: beautiful travel pictures from the countries discussed in today's headlines: https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/reasons-to-visit-the-shithole-countries-president-trump-singled-out Edited January 12, 2018 by mathnerd 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 re found in translation: The German magazine Spiegel.de used a weaker term that translates into dirt holes. Spitting out coffee, here. Is "dirt holes" an existing common term, or fused particularly to today's purpose? Because I would think that a very great percentage of holes, in Germany as here, would be made of.... dirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Thai newspaper: https://mgronline.com/around/detail/9610000003828 พวà¸à¸›à¸£à¸°à¹€à¸—ศเฮงซวย "inferior/bad countries" (or, "countries that are bad places", if I were translating, but I haven't really used Thai in a loooong time) That was also like, the 5th newspaper I tried. I'm not 100% sure if I just overlooked something, but it seems that some countries' newspapers are much more enthusiastic in reporting about this than others. ETA: article in Google translate's sh*tty translation (which doesn't even seem to use the phrase above, but it's in the original Thai): https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmgronline.com%2Faround%2Fdetail%2F9610000003828&edit-text=&act=url Edited January 12, 2018 by luuknam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Thai newspaper: https://mgronline.com/around/detail/9610000003828 พวà¸à¸›à¸£à¸°à¹€à¸—ศเฮงซวย "inferior/bad countries" (or, "countries that are bad places", if I were translating, but I haven't really used Thai in a loooong time) That was also like, the 5th newspaper I tried. I'm not 100% sure if I just overlooked something, but it seems that some countries' newspapers are much more enthusiastic in reporting about this than others. ETA: article in Google translate's sh*tty translation (which doesn't even seem to use the phrase above, but it's in the original Thai): https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmgronline.com%2Faround%2Fdetail%2F9610000003828&edit-text=&act=url In many cultures, using the word "shithole" is not socially acceptable. So, there is no equivalent word for it in those languages. The translations try to get as close as possible to the original english equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) De Standaard (Belgian newspaper): http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20180112_03294456 klotelanden "klote" is a vulgar word for testicles. "landen" is of course "countries". Edited January 12, 2018 by luuknam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 In many cultures, using the word "shithole" is not socially acceptable. So, there is no equivalent word for it in those languages. The translations try to get as close as possible to the original english equivalent. I get that. I'm just saying that Google sucks at translating Thai - which should be clear if you read some Google translations of Thai. Google does better with most other languages I'm familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) re found in translation: Spitting out coffee, here. Is "dirt holes" an existing common term, or fused particularly to today's purpose? Because I would think that a very great percentage of holes, in Germany as here, would be made of.... dirt. Because of the difference between the 3 Dutch newspapers and the 1 Belgian newspaper I looked at, I decided to glance at some Austrian newspapers as well, and they all (well, the 3 I looked at) use the same word as Der Spiegel. Now, I'm going to defer to native German-speakers as to the best translation, but before Regentrude posted, I'd translated it as "filthholes", which is slightly less mild, but the fact that they all use the same word makes me think that it is an existing word, not a made up word for the occasion. Edited January 12, 2018 by luuknam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Because of the difference between the 3 Dutch newspapers and the 1 Belgian newspaper I looked at, I decided to glance at some Austrian newspapers as well, and they all (well, the 3 I looked at) use the same word as Der Spiegel. Now, I'm going to defer to native German-speakers as to the best translation, but before Regentrude posted, I'd translated it as "filthholes", which is slightly less mild, but the fact that they all use the same word makes me think that it is an existing word, not a made up word for the occasion. The English original is an existing word, too, that started as a rude way to refer to latrines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twolittleboys Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 re found in translation: Spitting out coffee, here. Is "dirt holes" an existing common term, or fused particularly to today's purpose? Because I would think that a very great percentage of holes, in Germany as here, would be made of.... dirt. It is an existing word. However, the German word for "dirt" does not have the same double meaning as in English (i.e. "soil" and "filth") but only the later. So the German expression is maybe more accurately "filth holes" to distinguish the meaning. And I am happy to report that in Germany as everywhere holes are not necessarily especially dirty... Personally, I do feel that the German translation is less startling/vulgar than the original. That may be though because I live in a part of the country where language is fairly colorful so maybe I am just a bit desensitized. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam in CT Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 It is an existing word. However, the German word for "dirt" does not have the same double meaning as in English (i.e. "soil" and "filth") but only the later. So the German expression is maybe more accurately "filth holes" to distinguish the meaning. And I am happy to report that in Germany as everywhere holes are not necessarily especially dirty... Personally, I do feel that the German translation is less startling/vulgar than the original. That may be though because I live in a part of the country where language is fairly colorful so maybe I am just a bit desensitized. Ah. So in German, a different word would be used for "the backhoe dug up a huge pile of _______," referring to soil, than the word used in today's newspapers. Thank you. It really is true, that all sorts of things can serve as springboards to Teachable Moments. Bibiche, my youngest just texted me her example sentence from Spanish class, in which they are studying the subjunctive voice: ​Es ridiculo que nuestra presidente llame nuestros amigos aguejeros de mierda. :lol: #Sassy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 So, for example, Google translate translates the Dutch word 'drek' to: mud, dung, droppings, dirt, excrement, slime, ordure. It translates the German word 'dreck' to: dirt, filth, mud, muck, rubbish. I'm not sure to what degree there's an actual difference in meaning between Dutch and German, or if it's just Google happening to use different translations. Either way, you should be able to get a 'feel' for what they mean by looking at all possible translations - it's a bit yuckier than "the backhoe dug up a huge pile of dirt" as in soil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) re found in translation: Spitting out coffee, here. Is "dirt holes" an existing common term, or fused particularly to today's purpose? Because I would think that a very great percentage of holes, in Germany as here, would be made of.... dirt. In German, you can create compound words by simply merging words. I do not recall seeing the word "Dreckloecher" before, but it sounds like a normal word. It definitely has derogatory connotation and does not refer to holes in the ground, because the term "Dreck" is not a word for soil, but for dirt in its meaning as filth, or something that is unclean. German has a different word for dirt when it means soil, which happens to be the same word as the one for earth. Maybe I should have better translated it to "filth holes". in any case, it is not as crude as the original English term. Edited January 12, 2018 by regentrude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Personally, I do feel that the German translation is less startling/vulgar than the original. That may be though because I live in a part of the country where language is fairly colorful so maybe I am just a bit desensitized. No, your feeling is entirely correct. The German word "Dreck" is not a crude word for excrement. (If it ever refers to excrement, which is not its main meaning, it is used as a euphemism to avoid saying more direct words - like in "Hundedreck" ) The literal equivalent of "shit" is considered profanity and would not be acceptable in print in German media. Edited January 12, 2018 by regentrude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twolittleboys Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 No, your feeling is entirely correct. The German word "Dreck" is not a crude word for excrement. (If it ever refers to excrement, it is used as a euphemism to avoid saying more direct words - like in "Hundedreck" ) Yes, I am aware of that. But aside of that, in German (at least in the area I live in) there are a lot of expressions either with excrement or Ar... and they are not necessarily meant in a very negative sense or considered very vulgar. I mean of course they are vulgar but they are used quite a bit in normal conversations by normal people without causing much consternation. In English similar words (i.e. if you just translate it) seem a lot more crass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.