How many SAT Subject Tests?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I know it depends on the student and the school, but I'm curious how others decided. Is there a magic number that keeps open the most doors?  From what I've read, it's my understanding they aren't always required. When they are required, usually two is sufficient. Three are occasionally required, but I've never seen four or more required. Is there any reason to do four?

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[EKS]

My son took one.  Physics.  He applied to engineering schools, and physics was the only science/math course that didn't have some sort of "verifier."  Math and chemistry had DE classes, and biology was taken at a private school.  He also took astronomy and meteorology, but they don't have subject tests for those :)

[yvonne]

We aimed for 1 math, 1 science, and 1 humanities SAT subject exam, at a minimum. I think the only subject exam specifically required was Math 1 or 2 for Claremont McKenna.

 

We're in CA, and subject exams can be used to satisfy UC a-g requirements. If we were targeting UC schools, we'd have done two or three more.

[regentrude]

DD took four. Math2, Physics, German, and English.

Math and a science were required by some of her colleges.

 

We used the English test to substantiate her English grade for 11th grade when she completely unschooled English.

(It is also an extremely easy test and can quickly check the subject test box. She did one practice exam and no other prep)

 

German was a validation of her second language fluency.

Edited December 20, 2017 by regentrude

[8filltheheart]

Typically 2. Ds took chem and math2. Dd took Latin and math2. We have not needed them to verify classes completed at home. Dd's transcript was accepted by schools like URochester and Fordham even though the only outsourced class she had at all at the time was Russian.

 

There are schools that require more. URichmond is one. "Provide results of AP tests or SAT Subject Tests in history, a foreign language, and a natural science field." (I thought last yr that they required 4, but I might be misremembering.) In that case it really boils down to how much your student wants to apply. My kids are more likely to reject more hoops and standardized testing is something that they don't want to spend time doing, so they are more likely to just move on to a school that doesn't require them. Dd decided not to apply to URichmond specifically bc of the subject test requirements.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

From these posts and various school websites, there seems to be a pattern emerging. Math, science, and foreign language seem to be the most useful.  (Followed by history.) Even when the subject tests aren't required, they are sometimes used for placement. If the student doesn't have the subject test scores, they are required to take a placement test at the school. In that situation, the subject test might be preferred. (If the student has a bad testing day, the subject test can be taken again.)

 

Thanks for the responses thus far!

Edited December 20, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[creekland]

We did none.  No regrets.  

 

YMMV as some schools do require them.  Middle son had one on his list that required them and wouldn't accept his AP or DE instead (Emory).  It was easier for him to drop that school from his list.

[JeanM]

From these posts and various school websites, there seems to be a pattern emerging. Math, science, and foreign language seem to be the most useful. Even when they aren't required, they are sometimes used for placement. If the student doesn't have the subject test scores, they are required to take a placement test at the school. In that situation, the subject test might be preferred. (If the student has a bad testing day, the subject test can be taken again.)

 

Thanks for the responses thus far!

 

Just to show an exception to the bolded, my ds took US history, world history, English, and physics. So he did have one science. He didn't need that many for admission. Whether having 4 helped him as a part-time homeschooler is impossible for me to say.

 

Right now younger ds has taken US history and English.

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Does anyone have thoughts on the foreign language subject tests? How many years are recommended before taking them? I seem to remember reading somewhere the foreign language test curves are tough because so many native speakers take the tests. Thoughts?

Edited December 20, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Has anyone seen English Lit being required or helpful other than for giving weight to a homegrown course? I'm wondering if taking a foreign language subject test might be more useful in the end. (If a student already has math, science, and history.)

[regentrude]

Has anyone seen English Lit being required or helpful other than for giving weight to a homegrown course? I'm wondering if taking a foreign language subject test might be more useful in the end. (If a student already has math, science, and history.)

 

The English test is one you can simply throw in if the student is showing up to take other subject tests as well. It is pretty similar to the general SAT English portion and really not a hurdle for a student with a good grasp of the English language. But I see no benefit in taking it at a separate test date in addition to math, science and history

[regentrude]

. Math, science, and foreign language seem to be the most useful.  (Followed by history.) Even when the subject tests aren't required, they are sometimes used for placement. If the student doesn't have the subject test scores, they are required to take a placement test at the school.

 

I have not come across any school that placed students in science based on their subject test scores. Since this tests high school level science, but college science courses start from the beginning, that would not make sense to me.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I have not come across any school that placed students in science based on their subject test scores. Since this tests high school level science, but college science courses start from the beginning, that would not make sense to me.

 

That was poor wording on my part. Some schools want to see a science score. Some even request specific tests, such as physics or chemistry. Math and foreign language are the ones sometimes used for placement. 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

The English test is one you can simply throw in if the student is showing up to take other subject tests as well. It is pretty similar to the general SAT English portion and really not a hurdle for a student with a good grasp of the English language. But I see no benefit in taking it at a separate test date in addition to math, science and history

 

Thanks. This is helpful. We're dealing with scheduling conflicts on almost every testing date. She has time to take a test or maybe two on some dates, but not three tests. Not all test dates will work.  We want to make sure she's choosing tests wisely and not giving up other opportunities to take a test she doesn't even need.

 

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and experiences.

[regentrude]

. She has time to take a test or maybe two on some dates, but not three tests.

 

Not having the entire morning available sounds problematic, because testing may not start promptly. I would do whatever possible to free up the whole testing morning and not limit her to two hour slots because that may put her in a time crunch and may make it impossible to test if they are running behind.

[MarkT]

Probably obvious but make sure you take the SAT 2 test just after the corresponding course completion and some test prep work (usually the June dates).

 

Precalc => SAT 2 Math 2

AP or Honors Bio => SAT 2 Bio

etc

 

my DS' best friend is following this strategy so far so good - he will be applying to very competitive colleges (Junior this year)

[8filltheheart]

That was poor wording on my part. Some schools want to see a science score. Some even request specific tests, such as physics or chemistry. Math and foreign language are the ones sometimes used for placement.

Is math placement based on the math subject test or general math SAT/ACT score? I not have seen placement based on the math subject test before.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Not having the entire morning available sounds problematic, because testing may not start promptly. I would do whatever possible to free up the whole testing morning and not limit her to two hour slots because that may put her in a time crunch and may make it impossible to test if they are running behind.

 

 

She has plenty of buffer if she just takes one or two, but adding a third could push the testing into the afternoon if there's a delay.  We're planning on her being at the site until noon, if needed. We just want to have the best odds that even with delays she will be able to complete whatever test/s she planned to take without stressing about time.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Is math placement based on the math subject test or general math SAT/ACT score? I not have seen placement based on the math subject test before.

 

Some schools list the math subject test score as one method of placement. A few even offer credit for some subject test scores. Not many, but a few.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Probably obvious but make sure you take the SAT 2 test just after the corresponding course completion and some test prep work (usually the June dates).

 

Precalc => SAT 2 Math 2

AP or Honors Bio => SAT 2 Bio

etc

 

my DS' best friend is following this strategy so far so good - he will be applying to very competitive colleges (Junior this year)

 

Yes, this is the approach she's taken thus far and it's worked well. Although sometimes the May date is better because it's around the same time as APs, so there's no need to study all through June. (Unless, of course, the student needs the extra time.)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

To save time linking individual schools, I've linked this instead:

 

Note that colleges are more likely to award college credit for the AP Calculus AB exam or AP Calculus BC exam than for the SAT Math Subject Test. However, a few colleges will grant course credit for the SAT Math Subject Test, and many will use the exam as a math placement exam.

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/math-sat-subject-test-score-788685

 

(ETA: We're not trying to use the math subject test for credit. I've just include this for general information.)

Edited December 20, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[MarkT]

Yes, this is the approach she's taken thus far and it's worked well. Although sometimes the May date is better because it's around the same time as APs, so there's no need to study all through June. (Unless, of course, the student needs the extra time.)

wow your student is tough - the boys need a few weeks to unwind after the grueling APs

[Woodland Mist Academy]

wow your student is tough - the boys need a few weeks to unwind after the grueling APs

 

She would rather get the subject tests over with while the AP adrenaline is still flowing.  ;)  

 

Also, finals are later in May, so she wants to turn her focus to those. 

 

(If the class isn't AP, she's more likely to choose the June date, which is right after finals.)

Edited December 20, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[GoodGrief]

Probably obvious but make sure you take the SAT 2 test just after the corresponding course completion and some test prep work (usually the June dates).

 

Precalc => SAT 2 Math 2

AP or Honors Bio => SAT 2 Bio

etc

 

my DS' best friend is following this strategy so far so good - he will be applying to very competitive colleges (Junior this year)

 

Our experience, I think if possible, for best result, the student should do prep specific to the test from a book or course intended for that purpose to make sure any holes left by the course are covered. Course content, even with APs, can vary significantly.

 

My daughter did quite well (mid-700s) on the physics and chemistry subject tests after completing decidedly average courses in those topics (using Apologia.) The prep book makes all the difference, imo, comparing her experience to those of her friends.

 

She also did World History and Math 2. Our purpose in having her complete multiple standardized tests was as validation of her grades, in hopes of making her competitive for scholarships.

 

My oldest did no subject tests. She got some decent acceptances and lower level scholarships, but I do think the lack of subject tests kept her out of programs she really hoped to attend.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Our experience, I think if possible, for best result, the student should do prep specific to the test from a book or course intended for that purpose to make sure any holes left by the course are covered. Course content, even with APs, can vary significantly.

 

 

Good point. This is the approach we take as well. No matter what type or level of course she takes, she always does as least a quick skim of a test prep book and takes a practice test or two. (She studies more and takes more practice tests if necessary and if time allows.)

[madteaparty]

Sorry to derail, but are people doing SAT subject tests in the same subjects as AP? And if so why? I'm really clueless it seems.

[GoodGrief]

Sorry to derail, but are people doing SAT subject tests in the same subjects as AP? And if so why? I'm really clueless it seems.

 

I suppose someone might because they are applying to a school that requires a certain number of subject tests on an application, but perhaps only offers credit for APs.

 

In my daughter's case, however, she was using the testing to validate grades, so it made no sense to take multiple tests in the same subject.

[MarkT]

Sorry to derail, but are people doing SAT subject tests in the same subjects as AP? And if so why? I'm really clueless it seems.

1) Certain competitive colleges want to see specific SAT subject tests for all applicants.

2) A larger number of colleges want home-schoolers to provide SAT subject tests as "proof of learning".

[8filltheheart]

Sorry to derail, but are people doing SAT subject tests in the same subjects as AP? And if so why? I'm really clueless it seems.

Some schools want subject tests from all applicants. AP scores are not replacements for those required subject test scores.

 

Fwiw, not intended for for the OP but more for others reading the thread who might be new to the process, most schools do not require subject tests. Most schools do not require homeschool courses to be validated. It is really more of an issue with the elite colleges. Read college websites and see what they specifically say about homeschool applicants.

[8filltheheart]

1) Certain competitive colleges want to see specific SAT subject tests for all applicants.

2) A larger number of colleges want home-schoolers to provide SAT subject tests as "proof of learning".

I agree with #1. What is considered a "larger number" in #2. 5? 10? 50? 100?

[madteaparty]

Some schools want subject tests from all applicants. AP scores are not replacements for those required subject test scores.

.

Hmph. That's crazy. APs are so much harder than SAT subject tests(and often harder than your generic CC class). I'll have to give some thought to this particular loop. Edited December 21, 2017 by madteaparty

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Hmph. That's crazy. APs are so much harder than SAT subject tests(and often harder than your generic CC class). I'll have to give some thought to this particular loop.

 

The bolded is part of the reason we decided the subject tests were hoops worth jumping. An hour long multiple-choice test on a subject she had sometimes already taken a more difficult test in didn't seem that big of a hoop to jump, especially given the potential benefits.  (If a student has severe test anxiety, every test -- no matter how short -- might be difficult. If that were the case, the decision might well be different.)

 

The tests are a breeze to schedule. It's like signing up for the SAT, not the APs.  The tests still take time, of course. That's our biggest struggle in deciding. There's no reason to take tests that won't add anything to the transcript. Each test needs to earn its place on the calendar.

[OnMyOwn]

Hmph. That's crazy. APs are so much harder than SAT subject tests(and often harder than your generic CC class). I'll have to give some thought to this particular loop.

It can seem kind of crazy. The university near us will actually give my dd more credit and place her in a higher level of Latin based on the SAT subject test score she received before taking AP Latin than what they give if she gets a 5 on the AP exam. I'm not sure why.

 

DD is doing both tests, though, because there are also many schools that will not give her any credit or even place her based on the SAT Subject test, but will give her credit based on an AP score. This is where it would really come in handy to know what school she is going to want to attend.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I suppose someone might because they are applying to a school that requires a certain number of subject tests on an application, but perhaps only offers credit for APs.

 

Yes. This is our reason.

[OnMyOwn]

It can seem kind of crazy. The university near us will actually give my dd more credit and place her in a higher level of Latin based on the SAT subject test score she received before taking AP Latin than what they give if she gets a 5 on the AP exam. I'm not sure why.

 

DD is doing both tests, though, because there are also many schools that will not give her any credit or even place her based on the SAT Subject test, but will give her credit based on an AP score. This is where it would really come in handy to know what school she is going to want to attend.

And just for kicks, when we were completing the common app for my ds this year, we downloaded the Harvard app just to see if it was much different from the types of colleges my ds was applying to. The main difference was that they required two SAT subject tests.

[MarkT]

example of a college that requires SAT subject tests - Harvey Mudd

https://www.hmc.edu/admission/apply/first-year-students/application-materials/

 

[due to expected high cost not covered by merit we ended up not applying]

 

AND

 

http://mitadmissions.org/apply/freshman/tests

 

of interest:

https://homeschoolsuccess.com/sat-subject-tests-homeschool/

 

https://blog.prepscholar.com/complete-list-of-colleges-that-require-sat-subject-tests

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Sometimes two short multiple choice tests can be tickets to places you didn't know you wanted to go until it was time to apply. Better to have them and not need them, than to not have them and wish you did...

[madteaparty]

The bolded is part of the reason we decided the subject tests were hoops worth jumping. An hour long multiple-choice test on a subject she had sometimes already taken a more difficult test in didn't seem that big of a hoop to jump, especially given the potential benefits. (If a student has severe test anxiety, every test -- no matter how short -- might be difficult. If that were the case, the decision might well be different.)

 

The tests are a breeze to schedule. It's like signing up for the SAT, not the APs. The tests still take time, of course. That's our biggest struggle in deciding. There's no reason to take tests that won't add anything to the transcript. Each test needs to earn its place on the calendar.

I know but we travel in summer. Already May is taken up and now June too? 🤔

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I know but we travel in summer. Already May is taken up and now June too? 🤔

 

I understand! The test dates for May and June couldn't be worse this year.... 

 

Could you possibly have your son take the test wherever you're traveling? I've known people to schedule tests in other states or even other countries. (Not always an option, but I thought I'd mention it, just in case.)

Edited December 21, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[madteaparty]

I understand! The test dates for May and June couldn't be worse this year....

 

Could you possibly have your son take the test wherever you're traveling? I've known people to schedule tests in other states or even other countries. (Not always an option, but I thought I'd mention it, just in case.)

Ha, not likely ;)

[8filltheheart]

I know but we travel in summer. Already May is taken up and now June too? 🤔

Most are offered yr round and students can take 3 in one sitting. FL tests are the ones that typically have more limited test dates. Iirc, Latin is only offered 2x/ yr and languages with listening 1 or 2x.

[Arcadia]

My oldest would likely have four or five subject test scores as he prefers credit by exam and UC doesn’t accept CLEP. He has math 2 and physics done already. He will take a subject test in either German or Chinese to satisfy high school world language requirement. Whether he wants to take the AP exam for world language to try to satisfy college general education requirement is up to him (as in he has the ability if he wants to put in the effort).

 

Sorry to derail, but are people doing SAT subject tests in the same subjects as AP? And if so why?

My oldest does that to hedge scores, if he has a bad AP test day, he can hope that he didn’t also have a bad subject test day. Since he is taking the AP exam in May, the subject test in June, the bulk of the subject test content is still fresh and he only needs to revise the topics on the SAT but not on the AP. Our school district high school finals are the week after June SAT so summer camps doesn’t start until late June anyway, so we don’t have a scheduling conflict with summer camps.

 

His physics subject test was done with math subject test because we wanted a ballpark for engineering and those two are the most widely accepted subject test scores in engineering admissions. So for physics, his AP Physics C exam would be after he already had his score for the SAT Physics test.

[GoodGrief]

Sometimes two short multiple choice tests can be tickets to places you didn't know you wanted to go until it was time to apply. Better to have them and not need them, than to not have them and wish you did...

 

Yes, keeping options open. We learned that from my older daughter's college app process.

[Penelope]

Yes, keeping options open. We learned that from my older daughter's college app process.

Yes, in ninth and tenth grade you might only have an inkling that some of the more selective schools could be on the table, but since in many cases it is best to take the SAT right after completing the course, you have to think ahead for the just-in-case scenarios.

 

When I was in high school I was unaware of the subject tests until I applied to programs that required them. I then had the pressure of quickly scheduling and taking exams for topics I had not recently studied. I’d rather my kids don’t have to do it that way, although I think if you don’t take them at the end of a course, all is certainly not lost, but it’s not optimal.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Penelope