Thanks

[Rachel]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Rach

[Alessandra]

I might be concerned about accidents or liability. We are in A Girl Scout hiking group run by dedicated leader/hikers. There is a lot of planning that goes into it. Orientation-equipment, reminders, pre-hiking the area to make sure everything is ok and timing is right for getting people back on time, etc, etc. we do Boy Scouts and Venture Scouts too, and I'm not sure adults would want to lead if there were not insurance.

 

We have also done REI and similar programs. Parents sign all sorts of releases and must be at the program themselves. Their website has some good ideas. In our area, there are a number of king groups for adults, listed on NY NJ Trail Conference website.

 

If I were in your position, I would seek out one or more families that like hiking and then let the group grow organically. Our GS group has lots of leaders. If a girl sprains an ankle, for example, at least one adult will go with her to the trailhead, wait till parents come etc. also, not every adult can go on every hike -- so the more leaders in your group, the better. Sometimes parents are not that fit and want to leave early.

 

Not trying to be negative -- I *love* your idea -- but be aware of pitfalls. Leading a group is so different from a family hike.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Alessandra

[Rachel]

Yeah, I'm not thinking of anything that formal. More like inviting 2-4 homeschool families I know. For my sanity I think they need a little instruction first on how to act on the trail. Depending on the families, that may need to happen every time.

[regentrude]

Not wanting to rain on your parade, but I tend to agree with pp.

I am an avid hiker and run a local website and fb page for hiking in the area, and am often asked about leading group hikes. I won't touch this with a ten foot pole, for a variety of reasons. Things to ponder:

1.Liability. Adults are bad enough; I would never want to be responsible for a group of strangers'  kids in the woods. I don't know how you would go about acquiring liability insurance for an organized group, and imagine this to be quite expensive.

2.Group composition. The success of a hike depends on the group composition and requires selecting participants with matching abilities, goals, and styles. Where adults sometimes may be able to compensate for a less than ideal group dynamic (and I have seen my share of things going wrong there even among good friends), I would not expect this from kids. The wilderness is not a place to discover personality differences.

3. Ability. What happens if parents misrepresent their kids' abilities and instead of being able to hike 6 miles they complain, or refuse to continue, after two? 

 

I would invite a family of friends, each parent is responsible for their own kids, and hike together. Perhaps that grows into a group. Or seek out hikes that are organized through an organization like the Sierra Club etc. 

[Rachel]

I'll check the REI site for reference.

 

I've spent the last year backpacking over 300 miles with a group for adults. That has been so good for me, but we have a lot more kid friendly trails that are close by.

[MistyMountain]

Our area has had several active hiking group for parents that are lead and planned for by other parents. It mostly attracts parents of babies, toddler and preschoolers during the school year but I think one for homeschoolers would be cool. I used to do the hiking groups when my kids were younger. It never has been an issue. One group did eventually add a liability thing and they all included details in the descriptions of what the hike was like to prepare for the weather and terrain or whether or not pets were allowed etc. None of the groups were quiet but no parents left trash or damaged stuff or anything. Parents were glad to have other adults to talk to and you actually do want to scare away critters when there are bears in the area. There also was no issues with different personalities getting along or any conflict during hikes.

Edited November 7, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Earthmerlin]

I say go for it! It's an awesome idea & I also think people can be too loud and disrespectful towards nature. I'd feel it out with some families and be upfront about expected behaviors. When I go with my child, we meander slowly, observing and (respectfully) exploring as much as we can. Perhaps give kids a nature scavenger hunt the 1st time to encourage both observation skills and keep them engaged. Take guide books/pamphlets too. Perhaps hire a naturalist the 1st time so he/she can not only point things out but also discuss outdoor manners (& therefore leave you free from addressing this sensitive subject). Great idea, though!

[Earthmerlin]

I say go for it! It's an awesome idea & I also think people can be too loud and disrespectful towards nature. I'd feel it out with some families and be upfront about expected behaviors. When I go with my child, we meander slowly, observing and (respectfully) exploring as much as we can. Perhaps give kids a nature scavenger hunt the 1st time to encourage both observation skills and keep them engaged. Take guide books/pamphlets too. Perhaps hire a naturalist the 1st time so he/she can not only point things out but also discuss outdoor manners (& therefore leave you free from addressing this sensitive subject). Great idea, though!

Keep it small and informal. Larger groups are harder to control. Be upfront with disclaimers ('at your own risk', etc.). Have a standing date planned to keep things regular. Forget the naysayers and go for it.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Earthmerlin

[lmrich]

If you live anywhere near a state park, see if a ranger can give the talk and then you can just remind the kids. 

 

I would absolutely invite parents to come along with their child.

[Rachel]

If you live anywhere near a state park, see if a ranger can give the talk and then you can just remind the kids.

 

I would absolutely invite parents to come along with their child.

Excellent idea. I know a naturalist at the nearby state park.

 

And yes, I wouldn't do it without parents.

[Rachel]

I say go for it! It's an awesome idea & I also think people can be too loud and disrespectful towards nature. I'd feel it out with some families and be upfront about expected behaviors. When I go with my child, we meander slowly, observing and (respectfully) exploring as much as we can. Perhaps give kids a nature scavenger hunt the 1st time to encourage both observation skills and keep them engaged. Take guide books/pamphlets too. Perhaps hire a naturalist the 1st time so he/she can not only point things out but also discuss outdoor manners (& therefore leave you free from addressing this sensitive subject). Great idea, though!

Yes. I think I need to be realistic as to noise level. Maybe we won't see any deer even with kids talking. I just would like to make sure the kids are taught to keep things to a dull roar. No jumping up on something and then screaming to someone 100 feet away "hey, look at me!"

[Kalmia]

A friend of mine and I ran a nature study group for several years that included short hikes. We protected ourselves legally by running them under the auspices of our local chapter of the Audubon society, of which we were already members and that had many volunteer led hikes and programs running already. We chose trails appropriate for whole families which meant they were jogger stroller friendly. We required parents to stay with their children, but we did not require quiet and we let the kids run and play in appropriate areas and within reason. None of the kids (from, over the years, more than 100 families) were destructive or so loud that we felt they needed correction. There are so many benefit from free play in nature that we didn't want to discourage it. (See Richard Louv's book Last Child in the Woods). Also there are thousands of species that are not disturbed by activity: all the plants, insects, invertebrates, etc. along the way. The kids generally found more interesting things than the adults.

[Raifta]

We did a modified version of this over the summer which I called "Nature and Neighbourhoods" (but only to myself).  

 

We basically invited one other family to come with us, which kept it both manageable and contained and also made my kids excited to participate because they got to do it with friends.  We would go out to a nearby park one week for a short hike (1 hour max), and the next week we would explore a new neighbourhood in our city by walking (also about 1 hour).  

 

We usually tried to learn a bit about the park and what we might see in terms of plants, animals, geology ahead of time or something about the history of the neighbourhood ahead of time.

 

Because we were limited to 7 people maximum and because the kids are on the older end (9+) and also because they are generally lovely respectful kids, we didn't have a problem with anyone being noisy/littering etc even though those things weren't made explicit ahead of time.

 

I'm not sure I would want to 'lead a group' but this was more like a neat family playdate where we all got outside and explored new things.  But I'm not really the 'lead a group' type person.  

[Coco_Clark]

I've been running a small hiking group for several years now. Its the highlight of our homeschooling week, tbh, and we've made so many friends.

 

I've never had any liability concerns. I am just meeting other families to hike, so I guess I've never considered myself responsible for more than my own children.

 

I do understand what you mean by noise and no, there's no way to keep the kids quiet. I'm always shocked we see any wildlife at all, but we do - deer, elk, moose, turkeys, quail, hawks, eagles, porcupines, ect. We've made great discoveries.

 

I try to keep hikes between 2-4 miles. That's all my 5yos can do without complaining and I find that's a good distance for most kids. I'm upfront about trail difficulty and length ahead and let members decide for themselves. I expect lots of lagging/stopping/slowness. We are WAY faster and get WAY further as a family.

 

I have kept the group purposefully small. At the largest ever it was 10 families. 4 to 6 is ideal. I have also kept it by invitation only and word of mouth. Sometimes I'd invite a potential family to hike with me, just as a one time thing, then later invite them to the group if it worked out. Not everyone who says they are a hiker actually is.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Coco_Clark

[Guest]

We've been part of hiking groups. Realistically, bringing kids together outside, they'll be loud. When it's just one family, of course the energy is different.

 

For leaving no trace, it should be up to the parents to set an example. If they don't know, then you set the example.

[mountains27]

Our elementary school has an outdoor adventures group that is for kids in 5th-8th grade. My home schooled daughter was allowed to join this year and went on her first hike this past weekend. She loved it! I have always hiked in these mountains and took my kids out as soon as they could walk so she is no stranger to the trails. There seemed to be a good amount of kids on the hike and I'm sure a good amount of noise is heard! The teacher who runs it is a hiker and I'm sure she instills good trail etiquette and makes sure the kids leave no trace. I feel perfectly fine letting my daughter go off on these outings without me and think it's a great thing for the school to offer. We live in a national forest with mountains all around us, these kids should be out exploring their backyard :)

[daijobu]

I think as long as you are clear up front about expectations.  I was surprised that you define hiking as being quiet and observing nature.  I define hiking to be walking on a dirt trail, venting and gossiping loudly with friends, walking at a brisk pace to get some exercise, and trying not to get lost.  

 

I wouldn't want to be in charge of a bunch of other peoples' kids in the woods strewn with poison oak and haunted by mountain lions.  That's just me.  

[Mergath]

You guys must not have bears where you hike. Around here, we don't worry too much about making noise because it warns off any bears hanging around. I mean, we don't go screaming through the woods, but normal talking and laughing is fine. I wouldn't want to startle a bear when I've got a bunch of little kids with me.

[Rachel]

You guys must not have bears where you hike. Around here, we don't worry too much about making noise because it warns off any bears hanging around. I mean, we don't go screaming through the woods, but normal talking and laughing is fine. I wouldn't want to startle a bear when I've got a bunch of little kids with me.

Oh I definitely don't expect complete quiet, normal talking and laughing yes. I always tell my kids in restaurants to speak softly enough so that their conversation doesn't disturb the people at the next table. When I'm hiking, I think it should about be the same way. Speak softly enough that you don't bother the group on down the trail.

 

No bears. No mountain lions. Lots of birds, squirrels, deer, salamanders, toads, tortoises.

[HS Mom in NC]

That's a bold move.  I'm really picky about who I hike with because I've noticed that even on very easy hikes some people are just complainers.  I don't go hiking to listen to people gripe. It's psychologically discouraging for people to do a hike that's challenging to them when there are complainers along.

I wouldn't classify observing nature as hiking.  I would call that a nature walk.  I consider physically challenging my self as hiking.  Now I've been on hikes where we stopped and observed and did some nature journaling/watercolor pencil painting, but then we got back to hiking. 

My brother and I are hiking buddies and when we have big hikes in our future we audition potential hiking friends on easier ones and see how it goes before we invite them to the next level hike. I think we've dodged some bullets with out screening process.