Questions to ask if wanting a handicap van

[Melissa in New York]

I have a friend who recently became paralyzed after back surgery :( In addition to that, she has cerebral palsy, a traumatic brain injury from some years ago, and is legally blind.

 

She is looking to start a GoFund me page to buy a handicap van for folks to cart her around. There are options in our county that will help her to get where she needs to but she is unwilling to utilize those options at this time, because it is perceived it is restrictive (in terms of hours/days and availability)

 

Before she lost the use of her legs, folks from our church would drive her to grocery shopping, banking, small errands. She got use to the personalized attention.

 

She now wants to have a handicap van that we can drive her around. I'm on the fence as whether or not this is a good idea. We are a small church with limited drivers especially if it is to drive a large vehicle. What would help is to have a list of questions that will need to be asked before proceeding with this idea.

 

Since I have seen a wealth of wisdom from this site, I would love thoughts and questions that should be presented to her.

Thank you!

[Guest]

I hate to be a wet blanket for good intentions, but before she proceeds with this, someone should check out the legalities of it all...does one need a special license to do this sort of driving? and what about insurance coverage?

 

And then if you can, I would ask those who have been driving her if they are still willing and able to do this.  The change in her physical capabilities may limit the number of people who can take this on, due to their own physical strength.  They might not be willing to drive someone else's car, especially if they are not used to the size of it.  

 

The only reason I point these things out is that if she goes to the trouble and other people to the expense to buy the van, but it is never used, there may be some other options to look at.  

 

Poor gal.  That must be very hard.  My mom has a friend in a similar situation (re: being used to having friends drive her around); she is unwilling to use other options, but to tell the truth, her friends are also getting worn out...they themselves are not spring chickens.  

 

You are really nice to look into this for her.  Sorry I can't be much help and for being a wet blanket.  I guess having older parents and seeing all that they and their friends go through in life has made me a little aware that things have to change when our circumstances change.  

 

 

[bethben]

Most wheelchair vans are adapted mini-vans right now. The only difference is the floor of the car is a bit lower so you have to watch with speed bumps and snow drifts. The insurance for the van is a little higher because the adaptation is so expensive but it’s just regular car insurance. The bigger question is car insurance. Can she get car insurance knowing there will be multiple drivers? Also, is she expecting personal care assistance from her drivers to get around? Anyone with that level of disability will require help just to get around. IMO, you’re looking at full care not just driving her someplace. Think toileting as a big care need. As far as wheelchair transport services, they may not be as restrictive. But they could be. One company wouldn’t drop a person in a wheelchair off at our church because we’re on the other side of the road that is the boundary of their service area. If she did use the transport service, it would be a ton cheaper. A new ramp van can be over $50k. A used one with high miles can be over $30k. That’s a LOT of money to raise.

 

 

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[Guest]

Most wheelchair vans are adapted mini-vans right now. The only difference is the floor of the car is a bit lower so you have to watch with speed bumps and snow drifts. The insurance for the van is a little higher because the adaptation is so expensive but it’s just regular car insurance. The bigger question is car insurance. Can she get car insurance knowing there will be multiple drivers? Also, is she expecting personal care assistance from her drivers to get around? Anyone with that level of disability will require help just to get around. IMO, you’re looking at full care not just driving her someplace. Think toileting as a big care need. As far as wheelchair transport services, they may not be as restrictive. But they could be. One company wouldn’t drop a person in a wheelchair off at our church because we’re on the other side of the road that is the boundary of their service area. If she did use the transport service, it would be a ton cheaper. A new ramp van can be over $50k. A used one with high miles can be over $30k. That’s a LOT of money to raise.

 

 

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My mom really doesn't drive any more.  But. it was hard for her to let go of her car.  I sat down with her and showed her that she would spend less money on a taxi that she was spending on monthly insurance; that turned the trick for her.  Perhaps the "handi-cab" vs. $50K van plus insurance and so on scenario could help.  And instead of asking people to drive her, she could ask that they *accompany* her on the handi-cab drives.  

[City Mouse]

I don't see anything wrong with her getting a van, but the logistics of relying on volunteers to be available to take her everywhere seems a bit presumptuous especially considering your comment that she is choosing not to use the public transportation options.

 

If she was planning an hiring a driver, That would be a different situation to me.

 

When my MIL got to where she couldn't transfer from her wheelchair without considerable assistance, we tried taxis for wheelchairs but that was a pain due to our location. We did rent vans a few times. Some had a ramp on the side, but a few had a ramp from the rear.

Edited October 5, 2017 by City Mouse

[Lanny]

The GoFundMe to buy a private vehicle, only for her use, seems bad to me.  If it was to be utilized by multiple people, that would seem to be much better use of that kind of money, from a moral standpoint. I'm not sure what words to use to describe how I feel about GoFundMe to buy a van only for her to use. That seems Selfish.  I do not have the proper vocabulary for this.

 

There may be a need for her to hire a professional assistant to drive her and take care of her?

 

It may be time for her to consider going into Assisted Living or some other type of living arrangement? Among her other issues, she is legally blind.  This is *very* difficult for elderly people who are in rather good physical and mental health. She is not blessed with that.

 

Good luck to her!

[bethben]

Is she living by herself?  Maybe that's a bigger question than raising funds for a van.  

[Lanny]

Is she living by herself?  Maybe that's a bigger question than raising funds for a van.  

 

+1    I suspect that's the case and probably she will need to "bite the bullet" and either hire people to help her in her house, or, move from her house into Assisted Living or a Nursing Home.  That is probably ALWAYS very tough for people to do and there is usually great resistance to that. Assisted Living or Live In Help are probably what she needs now, not a Van paid for by GoFundMe and volunteers to drive her where she wants to go and when she wants to go there.

[Melissa in New York]

I hate to be a wet blanket for good intentions, but before she proceeds with this, someone should check out the legalities of it all...does one need a special license to do this sort of driving? and what about insurance coverage?

 

And then if you can, I would ask those who have been driving her if they are still willing and able to do this.  The change in her physical capabilities may limit the number of people who can take this on, due to their own physical strength.  They might not be willing to drive someone else's car, especially if they are not used to the size of it.  

 

The only reason I point these things out is that if she goes to the trouble and other people to the expense to buy the van, but it is never used, there may be some other options to look at.  

 

Poor gal.  That must be very hard.  My mom has a friend in a similar situation (re: being used to having friends drive her around); she is unwilling to use other options, but to tell the truth, her friends are also getting worn out...they themselves are not spring chickens.  

 

You are really nice to look into this for her.  Sorry I can't be much help and for being a wet blanket.  I guess having older parents and seeing all that they and their friends go through in life has made me a little aware that things have to change when our circumstances change.  

 

Wet blanket?  Absolutely not!    :)    This is exactly why I came to the boards.  This situation needs many questions to be asked and I'm grateful for them being expressed as I know I won't be able to think of them all by myself.   

 

And I do think she will have to consider the county options.   I head up the Compassion Ministry in my church and figured I should at least try to see if the van option is feasible.  She can be pretty stubborn when she wants something and if I have a host of questions for her to consider, she might realize she has to rethink her thoughts.

~melissa

[Melissa in New York]

Most wheelchair vans are adapted mini-vans right now. The only difference is the floor of the car is a bit lower so you have to watch with speed bumps and snow drifts. The insurance for the van is a little higher because the adaptation is so expensive but it’s just regular car insurance. The bigger question is car insurance. Can she get car insurance knowing there will be multiple drivers? Also, is she expecting personal care assistance from her drivers to get around? Anyone with that level of disability will require help just to get around. IMO, you’re looking at full care not just driving her someplace. Think toileting as a big care need. As far as wheelchair transport services, they may not be as restrictive. But they could be. One company wouldn’t drop a person in a wheelchair off at our church because we’re on the other side of the road that is the boundary of their service area. If she did use the transport service, it would be a ton cheaper. A new ramp van can be over $50k. A used one with high miles can be over $30k. That’s a LOT of money to raise.

 

 

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Thank you for the list of questions!

 

As for the personal assistance, she does have health aides around the clock.  The aides are not allowed to drive her anywhere with any vehicle, personal or not, due to state regulations.

 

The restrictions for the county services are not terrible but she is not willing at this point to use them unless absolutely necessary.  It has to due with waiting for them on their time table, not hers.  Thus, in her mind, having a van at her personal disposal would be the answer.

 

~melissa

 

p.s. I did try to "like" your post but the site is not allowing me. 

[Melissa in New York]

Insurance will sometimes cover them, but often the public transport just makes more financial and availability sense. Especially if this isn’t a husband or relative driving her, but church friends. That’s a lot of effort for other people when there may be a more convenient solution she can avail herself of.

 

 

I agree but she's one tough cookie.  I figured if she saw some of the reality that will occur with ownership of a van, she may reconsider.  But that remains to be seen  ;)

[Melissa in New York]

The GoFundMe to buy a private vehicle, only for her use, seems bad to me.  If it was to be utilized by multiple people, that would seem to be much better use of that kind of money, from a moral standpoint. I'm not sure what words to use to describe how I feel about GoFundMe to buy a van only for her to use. That seems Selfish.  I do not have the proper vocabulary for this.

 

There may be a need for her to hire a professional assistant to drive her and take care of her?

 

It may be time for her to consider going into Assisted Living or some other type of living arrangement? Among her other issues, she is legally blind.  This is *very* difficult for elderly people who are in rather good physical and mental health. She is not blessed with that.

 

Good luck to her!

 

 

I hear what you are saying!   Considering where the funds would come from, she should be open to others using the van.  And I do think she would, for the most part.  However, it gets tricky with insurance, and a few other things.

 

Buying a van through GoFundMe might be cost prohibitive, if we're talking $35,000+.  What happens if she never gets the amount?  Can the money get easily returned to folks who contributed?

 

As for assisted living, she probably won't.  At the moment, she is in a rehab place gaining upper strength for transferring from her wheelchair to her bed.  NY State is looking for a handicap-accessible apartment for her; that is the cheaper route for them.

 

Thanks for responding,

~melissa

[Melissa in New York]

Is she living by herself?  Maybe that's a bigger question than raising funds for a van.  

 

 

She has personal health aides 24/7 through NY state.  They are not allowed to drive her in any vehicle, personal or not.  I understand why but it's so frustrating.  The aides, for the most part, would be happy to go somewhere.  

[Lanny]

You are being very kind to her.  She may not be able to dictate how she travels at this time...  I hope they can find her a Handicap Accessible Apartment but that will still apparently require the people she has helping her now..  I don't know if Funds contributed to a GoFundMe page can be returned to the Donors. I have no idea how that works, but that is    possibly something you can find the answer for on the GoFundMe web site.

 

Another thing is what would happen, if she raises say USD $50K and buys a van and then she passes away? Who would get the van? Preferably, it would be in the name of your Church and there would be no issue with it being in her Will, if she has a Will.  

 

 

[Melissa in New York]

+1    I suspect that's the case and probably she will need to "bite the bullet" and either hire people to help her in her house, or, move from her house into Assisted Living or a Nursing Home.  That is probably ALWAYS very tough for people to do and there is usually great resistance to that. Assisted Living or Live In Help are probably what she needs now, not a Van paid for by GoFundMe and volunteers to drive her where she wants to go and when she wants to go there.

 

 

She's been taken care of by the state of NY for many years, due to her substantial disabilities.  She has round-the-clock care with aides.  However, those aides are not allowed to drive her anywhere due to state restrictions.  As for the housing, she is in a state-subsidized apartment but the state is now looking for a handicap apartment for her.  Overall, the costs lower doing it that route.

 

Yeah, I am thinking the handicap van is not the route to take.  Just needed to hear some feedback.  Now, to present those thoughts to her...!

[Tree Frog]

What would the tax implications be if she raised $35k? Would she lose some of the aid and support she currently receives?

 

eta: Posting from my phone doesn't always work well.

Edited October 7, 2017 by wilrunner

[bethben]

What would the tax implications be if she raised $35k? Would she lose some of the sid and support she currently receives?

 

Yes--will that count as income?  I know with my son's social security disability, if he has over $2000 to his name, they can drop any support or reduce it (I'm not sure what they do, but $2000 is a limit of some sort you don't want to cross).

[PeterPan]

There are rental companies for these. https://wheelersvanrentals.com/?gclid=CI6Asvyy3tYCFda1wAodRrgGAg

 

I think the public transportation would be way easier but I guess watch the video and see. Personally I'd ask whether this is emotional and do the go fund me and take her to Disney instead. She could go multiple times, maybe once a year for 10 years, for the cost of the van, and they'd treat her like a queen.

[KungFuPanda]

She needs to get over using public transport. People have already paid for this with their taxes so it doesn't make sense to ask anyone to pay again. In many communities, this is free and you just schedule it like a private cab. This is probably easier than calling your friends and lining up a driver. Also, handicapped vans are expensive. We're talking 25k for a dodge caravan. This is the cheapest. It hoes way up from there. They have to be late model vans because the loans are longer and the van needs to outlive its loan. Insurance is much higher.

 

You'd be doing her a huge favor if you gathered the information for her and maybe accompanied her on her first ride. There is likely paperwork and proof of disability involved. She's already made tougher adjustments. This is a mental block.

[BlsdMama]

It also might be easier/cheaper to convert a current vehicle.  We looked into this and it is not that terribly expensive.  She has full use of her arms?  Is she young or older? Strength in her arms/upper body?  Because there are a LOT of options out there for people who have upper body strength and have "only" lost their legs.  (I know it's a very big deal physically and emotionally which is why I put only in quotes.)

[Melissa in New York]

What would the tax implications be if she raised $35k? Would she lose some of the aid and support she currently receives?

 

eta: Posting from my phone doesn't always work well.

 

 

Yes--will that count as income?  I know with my son's social security disability, if he has over $2000 to his name, they can drop any support or reduce it (I'm not sure what they do, but $2000 is a limit of some sort you don't want to cross).

 

Thank you both for these questions.  I would have never thought of them myself!

 

 

There are rental companies for these. https://wheelersvanrentals.com/?gclid=CI6Asvyy3tYCFda1wAodRrgGAg

 

I think the public transportation would be way easier but I guess watch the video and see. Personally I'd ask whether this is emotional and do the go fund me and take her to Disney instead. She could go multiple times, maybe once a year for 10 years, for the cost of the van, and they'd treat her like a queen.

 

The link is a good one to know.  Thank you!

 

 

She needs to get over using public transport. People have already paid for this with their taxes so it doesn't make sense to ask anyone to pay again. In many communities, this is free and you just schedule it like a private cab. This is probably easier than calling your friends and lining up a driver. Also, handicapped vans are expensive. We're talking 25k for a dodge caravan. This is the cheapest. It hoes way up from there. They have to be late model vans because the loans are longer and the van needs to outlive its loan. Insurance is much higher.

 

You'd be doing her a huge favor if you gathered the information for her and maybe accompanied her on her first ride. There is likely paperwork and proof of disability involved. She's already made tougher adjustments. This is a mental block.

 

I'm thinking that I will put all the info together and you can give her the information.  LOL!

 

 

 

It also might be easier/cheaper to convert a current vehicle.  We looked into this and it is not that terribly expensive.  She has full use of her arms?  Is she young or older? Strength in her arms/upper body?  Because there are a LOT of options out there for people who have upper body strength and have "only" lost their legs.  (I know it's a very big deal physically and emotionally which is why I put only in quotes.)

 

Good to know!  My friend is 54 years old and prior to the back surgery, she had simple upper body strength.  In rehab, they are working her hard to build strength.

[Junie]

She needs to get over using public transport. People have already paid for this with their taxes so it doesn't make sense to ask anyone to pay again. In many communities, this is free and you just schedule it like a private cab. This is probably easier than calling your friends and lining up a driver. Also, handicapped vans are expensive. We're talking 25k for a dodge caravan. This is the cheapest. It hoes way up from there. They have to be late model vans because the loans are longer and the van needs to outlive its loan. Insurance is much higher.

 

You'd be doing her a huge favor if you gathered the information for her and maybe accompanied her on her first ride. There is likely paperwork and proof of disability involved. She's already made tougher adjustments. This is a mental block.

 

:iagree:

[MedicMom]

:iagree:

I don't know where in New York the OP is, but in my area NYS Medicaid does not always cover wheelchair van service. The company I work for runs a wheelchair van service so when I'm scheduling and dispatching I deal with it as well as ambulances. We generally require payment up front if the patient has Medicare, as Medicare won't cover anything, and if it is not pre approved by Medicaid. Medicaid here will often cover if the wheelchair van is a medical necessity, such as to doctors or therapy appointments, but not for anything that is not related to a medical need--recently I tried to help one person at least get it covered so she could go pick up her medications at the pharmacy and Medicaid continued to deny it.

 

All this to say that taxes do not always cover a wheelchair van or taxi service. If the OP's friend needs to go shopping, pick up meds, go to church, or anything that isn't related to a medical need, she will be paying for a wheelchair van or taxi service out of pocket. We currently have no wheelchair taxis in my three county area so people are utilizing the wheelchair van companies, even for basic needs such as getting to the grocery store. Bus service is possible for wheelchairs here, but you are beholden then to their inconvenient schedule. I am having foot surgery soon and will be wheelchair confined for at least a month, so not only professionally, but personally I am quickly becoming familiar with what my area has to offer.

 

I agree that a gofund me for a wheelchair van relying on volunteers should be a no-go. Who is it going to be registered to? I'm assuming that being legally blind she doesn't have a driver's license. Who is going to pay for the upkeep(which is costlier due to the modifications), gas and insurance(neither of which are cheap in NYS)?

I know she's used to the personal attention and that it's a pain, but I think she will need to utilize public transportation.

[Melissa in New York]

I don't know where in New York the OP is, but in my area NYS Medicaid does not always cover wheelchair van service. The company I work for runs a wheelchair van service so when I'm scheduling and dispatching I deal with it as well as ambulances. We generally require payment up front if the patient has Medicare, as Medicare won't cover anything, and if it is not pre approved by Medicaid. Medicaid here will often cover if the wheelchair van is a medical necessity, such as to doctors or therapy appointments, but not for anything that is not related to a medical need--recently I tried to help one person at least get it covered so she could go pick up her medications at the pharmacy and Medicaid continued to deny it.

 

All this to say that taxes do not always cover a wheelchair van or taxi service. If the OP's friend needs to go shopping, pick up meds, go to church, or anything that isn't related to a medical need, she will be paying for a wheelchair van or taxi service out of pocket. We currently have no wheelchair taxis in my three county area so people are utilizing the wheelchair van companies, even for basic needs such as getting to the grocery store. Bus service is possible for wheelchairs here, but you are beholden then to their inconvenient schedule. I am having foot surgery soon and will be wheelchair confined for at least a month, so not only professionally, but personally I am quickly becoming familiar with what my area has to offer.

 

I agree that a gofund me for a wheelchair van relying on volunteers should be a no-go. Who is it going to be registered to? I'm assuming that being legally blind she doesn't have a driver's license. Who is going to pay for the upkeep(which is costlier due to the modifications), gas and insurance(neither of which are cheap in NYS)?

I know she's used to the personal attention and that it's a pain, but I think she will need to utilize public transportation.

This is very true about Medicaid. Thank you for telling about it much better than I ever could. :)

However, there are services that will drive her and the cost is not nearly the amount an ambulette is going to charge. She's being resistant to those.

[Lanny]

She is being resistant?  She may need to wait until hell freezes over to get what she wants.  She has the "I want I want I want" syndrome. I am very sad for her medical problems, but there are people far far far worse off than she is, who are not so selfish and demanding. 

[Tap]

If she is legally blind, she cant have a drivers license. Without a dl, I doubt she can get insurance. I assume the van would be in her name?

 

ETA:I was wrong.I called a friend who is an insurance broker.  At least in Washington state, you can get insurance in this circumstance 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Tap

[Melissa in New York]

She is being resistant? She may need to wait until hell freezes over to get what she wants. She has the "I want I want I want" syndrome. I am very sad for her medical problems, but there are people far far far worse off than she is, who are not so selfish and demanding.

Awww, I'm sorry if I painted a very negative picture of her. While she is rather demanding, I don't believe she is able to process well in her brain. As mentioned in my first post, with a TBI, Cerebral Palsy, legally blind, and knowing a part of her childhood story, she hasn't had it easy. In addition, she walked into a hospital 2 months ago for her 3rd or 4th back surgery and had to be wheeled out and will be permanently paralyzed. (I believe the hospital may be culpable but that's a whole 'nother story.)

 

I never thought the idea of the van was a feasible one. I figured if I presented the facts of owning one vs taking public transportation, it might help her to process the information. It would be facts directing the subject, hopefully minimizing emotion or desire. Thus, my reason for asking you folks for advice.

[Melissa in New York]

If she is legally blind, she cant have a drivers license. Without a dl, I doubt she can get insurance. I assume the van would be in her name?

Honestly, I doubt it will even get that far. The facts of owning one are prohibitive in many aspects. I suspect it hasn't even registered in her mind. Pun intended. ;)

[MistyMountain]

This lady does have it really bad compared to most people and just got dealt another blow that severely limits her. The list of what she deals with is long. It is not selfish to try to find a way to get back to normal. It is also not selfish to use gofundme that way. I know someone whose friends did a gofundme for them because having a wheelchair assessable minivan had a huge impact on quality of life in a very positive way. Most places in this country are suburbs and some areas do not even have services that are wheelchair accessible and even if they do it can be very hard to use it for every day things. Public transport does not work well in suburbs. I know people who just get by in a regular vehicle with kids but when those kid become adults I think a gofundme funded van would really help them. We have a charity that helps families that cannot afford it get accessible vans. It does not sound like this is just a selfish lady who is dealing with what most people are at all.

 

That said I do not think it works in the case of her not having a family to take care of her as the main care provider but volunteers. It must be hard for her to be in that position because she probably liked having people she knew to socialize with.

Edited October 9, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Melissa in New York]

This lady does have it really bad compared to most people and just got dealt another blow that severely limits her. The list of what she deals with is long. It is not selfish to try to find a way to get back to normal. It is also not selfish to use gofundme that way. I know someone whose friends did a gofundme for them because having a wheelchair assessable minivan had a huge impact on quality of life in a very positive way. Most places in this country are suburbs and some areas do not even have services that are wheelchair accessible and even if they do it can be very hard to use it for every day things. Public transport does not work well in suburbs. I know people who just get by in a regular vehicle with kids but when those kid become adults I think a gofundme funded van would really help them. We have a charity that helps families that cannot afford it get accessible vans. It does not sound like this is just a selfish lady who is dealing with what most people are stupid all.

 

That said I do not think it works in the case of her not having a family to take care of her as the main care provider but volunteers. It must be hard for her to be in that position because she probably liked having people she knew to socialize with.

Thanks for your words. She has dealt with more than I ever have. Part of the tough exterior is having to fight for much in her world. Learning to temper it with grace and love is an area we both struggle with. She's brought me joy in my life and for that I am grateful.

[bethben]

I had a friend who took care of a woman who was a quadriplegic.  They were about the same size.  She used to be able to wedge her knees against the woman without feeling below the shoulders and get her into a sedan.  Not easily, but it worked until the other woman got a motorized wheelchair.  Could this work?  It sounds like maybe your friend is lonely for friendship and caretakers are supposed to maintain a professional distance most likely.  Maybe she just needs regular visitors?

[PeterPan]

Well if she gets a lawyer and sues the hospital, then it might pay for some of this stuff.