S/O of a S/O Earning High School Credits in Middle School

[wendyroo]

The discussion in the other threads were about earning high school credits in public school, but I am more interested in how early dual enrollment gets "counted" for homeschool students.

 

I took my first college courses (Psychology and Film Studies) at a local university when I was 13.  It wasn't dual enrollment or anything, just something to keep me busy three afternoons a week during the summer.  I have no clue if they ended up on my (public school) high school transcript, I doubt it, but I do know that I took that college transcript to MIT with me and they gave me credit for both of those courses (as Psychology and a general elective) regardless of the fact that I was a middle schooler when I took them.

 

I know the general rule of thumb is that very few courses taken before 9th grade get put on the high school transcript even if they are "high school level" courses.  But does that apply even if they are college level courses?  We have access to an amazing dual enrollment program, so I could see one of my kiddos taking Computer Programming, Psychology, Writing, etc during middle school.  Courses that typically would not be carried up from middle school onto the high school transcript.  OTOH, if a middle schooler aces a college course, then seems like important outside validation which deserves a place on their transcript.

 

Thoughts?

[Arcadia]

OTOH, if a middle schooler aces a college course, then seems like important outside validation which deserves a place on their transcript.

The college transcripts get sent in as part of college applications. My district and the private high schools we asked don't need to include those in the high school transcript since proof will come from the college transcript.

 

My oldest has two AP scores as a 7th grader. He might take a few AP exams as a 8th grader, we aren't deciding until Feb/March. Our local public school won't need to include his middle school AP scores in his high school transcript (assuming he attends public high school) as they expect us to send the AP score reports to whichever college he applies to that ask for it.

 

If my oldest does dual enrollment this year, the public high school would want the college transcript to check off high school graduation requirements. With his 7th grade AP scores he has check off the entire math requirement and an elective requirement for high school graduation requirement.

 

ETA:

If you are talking about a homeschool high school transcript, then it is totally your choice whether to list the courses there. You have to send all the college transcripts anyway whether or not the courses are listed on your child's high school transcript unless your child took those college courses in audit mode versus credit mode.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Arcadia

[Dmmetler]

My DD started concurrent enrollment at the local CC at age 12. We homeschool through a cover school. So far, her college classes are being listed as Class Name/Number, DE at school name, grade given by college, and yes, they count as high school credits.

 

The other thing is that college classes are contained on a college transcript, so there will be a record.

[madteaparty]

I don't understand. If you took the courses for credit (versus just auditing them) you *have* to provide those transcripts when you apply to college. There's really no discretion on your part.

I tell DS not to take a college class unless he is certain to get an A in it for this reason. But those will be reported to colleges no matter what, so you bet I'll be including them on his high school transcript.

[wendyroo]

I don't understand. If you took the courses for credit (versus just auditing them) you *have* to provide those transcripts when you apply to college. There's really no discretion on your part.

I tell DS not to take a college class unless he is certain to get an A in it for this reason. But those will be reported to colleges no matter what, so you bet I'll be including them on his high school transcript.

 

No, I know that I included the college transcripts in my applications, but I don't think my high school even knew that I ever took those college classes, so I'm pretty sure those courses were never "counted" as high school credits.

 

I'm mostly curious as to whether college courses can be included on a high school transcript (backed up by the college transcript) if desired.

 

For example, if a student dual enrolled in Biology with lab in 8th grade, could that appear on the high school transcript and count as a lab science so that in later years they would be free to take a higher level, non-lab science.

 

Or, if they dual enrolled in Spanish 1-4 in grades 7-10, and then decided to spend 11th and 12th studying Japanese, could those four years of Spanish all appear on the high school transcript so they would meet college requirements of studying the same language for more than 2 years.

 

Just curious.

[Arcadia]

For example, if a student dual enrolled in Biology with lab in 8th grade, could that appear on the high school transcript and count as a lab science so that in later years they would be free to take a higher level, non-lab science.

 

Or, if they dual enrolled in Spanish 1-4 in grades 7-10, and then decided to spend 11th and 12th studying Japanese, could those four years of Spanish all appear on the high school transcript so they would meet college requirements of studying the same language for more than 2 years.

I have been told you can do what you want and the colleges will do what they want. However there are college courses that are not for high school credit and not transferable. There are also local community college classes that count for one state university system but not the other. So if my kid takes a course that counts for CSU but not UC, he will still be short on checking the boxes for UC if he depends on that course to fulfill UC requirements.

 

That is why my oldest is going the AP exam route before dual enrollment for sciences. The AP exam policy is usually on college websites. The colleges he is thinking off all have math placement tests. His top choice allows validation of foreign languages using AP exam score for someone who is not continuing with that language in college.

 

ETA:

Cambridge U.K. has reinstated entrance exams last year instead of relying on the A level exams results. I do not know how college applications would change from now to when my oldest is in 12th grade (4 years later). I'm already curious what the coalition app would be like since he start the process in 9th grade (next year).

 

Your oldest is 8, I would say keep all official records and worry later.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Arcadia

[Dmmetler]

If you're homeschooling, yes. If your D.C. goes to ps-it's going to be up to them. At minimum, classes taken in 9th-12th should count, and Spanish 3 and 4 on the transcript would tend to indicate 1 and 2 also completed. Similarly, even if bio doesn't make it on the high school transcript, the higher sciences would.

 

What we will likely do is label whatever year DD decides she wants to graduate as her senior year, and fo backwards from then. It would be no trouble to count any of the last three years as a high school year based on coursework completed-she entered college coursework when she was largely finished with high school coursework. I think that tends to be true of middle schoolers taking DE-they easily could go back and declare "oops,I was actually in 9th grade, not 7th"-and the transcript would back that up.

[Ellie]

The discussion in the other threads were about earning high school credits in public school, but I am more interested in how early dual enrollment gets "counted" for homeschool students.

 

I took my first college courses (Psychology and Film Studies) at a local university when I was 13.  It wasn't dual enrollment or anything, just something to keep me busy three afternoons a week during the summer.  I have no clue if they ended up on my (public school) high school transcript, I doubt it, but I do know that I took that college transcript to MIT with me and they gave me credit for both of those courses (as Psychology and a general elective) regardless of the fact that I was a middle schooler when I took them.

 

I know the general rule of thumb is that very few courses taken before 9th grade get put on the high school transcript even if they are "high school level" courses.  But does that apply even if they are college level courses?  We have access to an amazing dual enrollment program, so I could see one of my kiddos taking Computer Programming, Psychology, Writing, etc during middle school.  Courses that typically would not be carried up from middle school onto the high school transcript.  OTOH, if a middle schooler aces a college course, then seems like important outside validation which deserves a place on their transcript.

 

Thoughts?

 

My children did community college instead of high school. It was never my plan to do twelve years just like school, because why should that be the norm? So my dds began taking classes, for college credit not dual enrollment, when they were 14. If they had needed a high school transcript (which they never did, because they were able to transfer to CalState or UC, at which time a high school transcript would have been unnecessary), I would have made the transcript, with each semester-length c.c. class given a whole credit (in California, high school credits are 5 per semester). I would have included a notation that those credits were transfer credits, high school level or above.

 

So as far as "high school," I could have "counted" their college credits as high school credits. AFAIK, this would be true in most states, that the parents do the high school transcripts and include college classes on them.

[2_girls_mommy]

My high schooler is getting a couple credits from 8th grade for her homemade high school transcript from me. They are regular old homeschool high school courses that she took at home or co-op with other high schoolers that were getting the credit for it.  

[daijobu]

I'm organizing my transcript by subject, so I can include some math classes and AP classes that are typically taken in high school.  

[4KookieKids]

My children did community college instead of high school. It was never my plan to do twelve years just like school, because why should that be the norm? So my dds began taking classes, for college credit not dual enrollment, when they were 14. 

 

Ok, so I'm gonna show my ignorance here, but maybe I have an excuse since oldest only just turned 8. But what exactly is DE for a homeschooler? I think I understand it in the context of normal high school - classes you get both hs and college credit for - but I don't understand it in the context of homeschooling at all. Why would a college level course not count towards high school? 

[Dmmetler]

Dual enrollment has different rules than just registering for and starting college. In my state, high enough standardized test scores qualify you to enroll in a CC without a high school diploma, and after 12 hours completed with at least a C, you are considered a regular, matriculated student. You can take any classes you have prerequisites for, and register as whatever your course standing is, subject to regular credit/overload limits.DE students have far more hoops to jump, and are limited both in classes they can take and that they cannot do more than 12 credits a year. But, DE gets state funding. Just registering for college based on test scores with no diploma does not until you matriculate, and then only if you qualify for financial aid.

 

Homeschool parents can (and do) use CC classes to meet high school requirements whether DE or not.

[Lori D.]

... what exactly is DE for a homeschooler? I think I understand it in the context of normal high school - classes you get both hs and college credit for - but I don't understand it in the context of homeschooling at all. Why would a college level course not count towards high school? 

 

Short answer to your second question -- Because the DE was not college level to begin with. ;)

 

 

Not every dual enrollment program is ALSO dual credit.  If the courses are pre-college level, you can't be awarded college credit, just high school credit. :) Copy-pasting an excerpt from my reply on the recent High School board thread: "Dual enrollment or young college?":

 

"...There are some programs offered by community colleges that are high school courses, or advanced high school courses, in which the student is enrolled both at their high school AND at the community college in order to take the courses, but the courses are only of high school level, NOT college level, so credit will only be awarded on the high school transcript through the community college. These classes may be held either on the community college campus, or, on a high school campus, and are overseen by community college instructors teaching high school material.

 

Check the college's course numbers on the classes -- classes with a numbering below 100 are NOT college level, but either high school or remedial (for college students). For example: "097 Intermediate Algebra" or "096 English Composition Fundamentals". If the course numbers are above 100, then it is up to each individual university as to whether or not they will accept the college course for credit towards their degree program, or just accept as an "elective"."

 

So, a homeschooler who is outsourcing a course that is below college level -- say, Algebra 2 (the community college's 097 Intermediate Algebra) -- the student is dual enrolled (enrolled both at the college and in homeschool), BUT is only getting high school credit because the course is pre-college level. Yes, the number of units and grade *will* appear on the community college's transcript, and the GPA counts towards the permanent college transcript, but the course itself is below college level, so it doesn't transfer anywhere as *college* credit, nor does it count towards a community college degree. It is only counted as high school credit. :)

Edited August 26, 2017 by Lori D.

[Ellie]

Ok, so I'm gonna show my ignorance here, but maybe I have an excuse since oldest only just turned 8. But what exactly is DE for a homeschooler? I think I understand it in the context of normal high school - classes you get both hs and college credit for - but I don't understand it in the context of homeschooling at all. Why would a college level course not count towards high school? 

 

It depends.

 

The c.c. where my dds attended gave high school credit, not college credit, for dual-enrolled students (and they did not have to pay tuition). Once they graduated from high school, they  began to earn college credit. They did not have to repeat the classes they had already taken--and yes, they were college-level--but they had to take classes to equal those "high school" credits. I saw no purpose in my children earning "high school" credit, as I was going to graduate them whenever *I* thought they were ready. My dds were in a category called "student under 18 not enrolled in high school." They earned college credit, and they paid tuition just like everyone else.

 

However, not all c.c. did the same thing. It was up to each individual c.c. to make those decisions.

[8filltheheart]

Ok, so I'm gonna show my ignorance here, but maybe I have an excuse since oldest only just turned 8. But what exactly is DE for a homeschooler? I think I understand it in the context of normal high school - classes you get both hs and college credit for - but I don't understand it in the context of homeschooling at all. Why would a college level course not count towards high school?

Part of it is just terminology. Part of it has to do with the way some universities and some states stipulate requirements. In those certain circumstances (and by far this is not a universal position), courses used toward high school graduation requirements cannot be used toward college credit. It is not an issue my kids have ever run into, but it does exist.

 

A more common scenario is that some universities will not allow beyond x number of transfer credits, so kids that DE only end up with the "high school credit" (not exactly correct classification) and zero college credit at their destination college. (The reason That descriptor is no really correct is bc if they had attended a different college, they might have received full credit for all of their DE courses.)

 

And you will definitely hear about kids DEing in courses like college algebra for college credit. Well, that is a very fuzzy area bc college algebra may be algebra 2 or pre-cal or ?? (Depends on the school.) But, whether or not it counts as college credit toward a degree depends on major. For an engineering student, it would be considered remedial math bc the first math for credit for an engineering student is cal.

 

Clear as mud? Absolutely not anything to even think about with an 8 yr old. It will start to make sense when you get there.