Writing for the reluctant writer in the logic stage

[silver]

My son hates writing but loves history and science. I've avoided giving him writing across the curriculum because of this. I try to make up for it by using both ELTL and Imitation in Writing. I know that as he progresses to the logic stage, I need to get him writing more. How can I do that at an appropriate level while not killing his love of the content subjects?

[MerryAtHope]

One thing I did was to let the writing portion of a history assignment count for that day's English. The research portion of a project or assignment would still count for history time (and my history lover didn't mind that--he was getting to dig in to a subject he enjoyed after all). But when it was time to write, I let the writing time take the place of any other English assignment. 

[TarynB]

What helped the most for my previously reluctant-writer son at that age was Institute for Excellence in Writing (IEW) Student Writing Intensive. For middle school, level B. Fully refundable if you use it and don't like it. It separates the tasks of invention (thinking of what to write) and composition (organizing). Made a huge difference for my son who is now a proficient and prolific writer as he enters 10th grade. :)

 

http://iew.com/shop/products/student-writing-intensive-level-b

[Mrs Twain]

Ditto above. I think IEW-SWI B would be a good fit.

[Farrar]

I think Brave Writer is good for reluctant writers because it focuses in part on getting kids to appreciate and like writing and on being positive about writing... but it depends a little on the reluctance reason. Programs like IEW break down the process into small steps that help some kids figure out what to do and make writing less of an overwhelming and confusing process.

 

I second what MerryatHope said - protect history and science time without writing, but let the topics carry over into writing and don't add on to that, at least at first or for that particular day. It may help his writing by giving him something he enjoys to write about - and just giving him something to write about period. Some programs or assignments are so vague that kids don't know where to start or what to say. Writing about something you just enthusiastically learned about (while I get that it's a gamble that you'll hurt the enthusiasm) may be less intimidating overall.

[silver]

I'm not sure why he dislikes writing. At first I thought it was handwriting he disliked. But now he's typing almost everything, and it still makes him groan and resist school work. I have seen improvement over the years, both in quality of output and attitude, so that's encouraging. Imitation in Writing takes away the "what to write" problem (in the same way that IEW does), but he still behaves like it is either the hardest or most boring task in the world.

 

I admit that it probably isn't very exciting, and incorporating science or history could help with that. *Sigh* I think what I need is something pre-planned that is like the 3rd section of Treasured Conversations. A short non-fiction passage with a specific writing prompt/question. He needed a lot of hand holding, but he seemed to almost like that section when we did it (the 2nd section with creative writing resulted in tears more than once). I'm not sure I have the time or ability to put together a years worth of writing prompts like that.

[mamaraby]

I think Brave Writer is good for reluctant writers because it focuses in part on getting kids to appreciate and like writing and on being positive about writing... but it depends a little on the reluctance reason. Programs like IEW break down the process into small steps that help some kids figure out what to do and make writing less of an overwhelming and confusing process.

 

I would caution on BW. It was fairly disastrous here with my reluctant writer. If anything it made him more reluctant. Personally, I think BW is great for natural writers who have encountered writer's block and just need help getting unstuck. Dd1 is a more natural writer for whom I could see BW working better for. So this is definitely a your writer may vary kind of thing. If you go the BW route, buy the cheaper stuff first and try it out. Then you're only out a small amount instead of a lot since they are PDFs you can't resell.

 

ime, my reluctant writer is the kind who needs explicit instruction and lots of hand holding. So for him, IEW would be a better choice over BW. Like Farrar, I'd second Merry's suggestion to focus on the writing in one spot. So, no writing across the curriculum. Last year, we ditched the writing assignments in history and just focused on the writing in my chosen writing curriculum. By the end of the school year ds was doing really, but slid backwards after our summer break. I am beginning to regret not outsourcing writing with him. I am hoping it's more the 12yo boy thing this time around.

[Guest]

What about Essentials in Writing?

 

http://essentialsinwriting.com

 

We cannot stand IEW and the key word outlines and the "style" but this is tolerable. 

[silver]

What about Essentials in Writing?

 

http://essentialsinwriting.com

 

We cannot stand IEW and the key word outlines and the "style" but this is tolerable. 

 

I have been considering that one.

 

For anyone that has used Essentials in Writing, how specific are the writing assignments? That's been a big issue for my son when assignments are something like "write about your favorite food" or "this is what a persuasive letter looks like, so go pick a topic to persuade someone about." My son needs more specifics than those kind of assignments--both in guidance in choosing a topic and in what to write about the topic. 

 

Merry, you use this one, right? So when you assign writing having to do with your history or science, you just skip doing this curriculum for the day? Do you plan it so that you are in between units when you do this? 

[tmstranger]

What about WriteShop?  The assignments, at least in the beginning, are short paragraphs.  They are very specific topics, which helps with "what" to write about. 

 

I will say that WriteShop is parent intensive.  I actively introduced each lesson and "modeled" the writing by doing a practice paragraph WITH my son.  I think that seeing ME work through the writing process was very helpful for my son.  He saw that we can all struggle with finding the right words, and we all need to edit and revise. 

 

We didn't make it through the whole curriculum, but we really enjoyed what we used. 

 

[MerryAtHope]

I have been considering that one.

 

For anyone that has used Essentials in Writing, how specific are the writing assignments? That's been a big issue for my son when assignments are something like "write about your favorite food" or "this is what a persuasive letter looks like, so go pick a topic to persuade someone about." My son needs more specifics than those kind of assignments--both in guidance in choosing a topic and in what to write about the topic. 

 

Merry, you use this one, right? So when you assign writing having to do with your history or science, you just skip doing this curriculum for the day? Do you plan it so that you are in between units when you do this? 

 

There are specific assignments/prompts given. We used levels 7-11, and there were usually 4-5 prompts to choose from. Rarely my student didn't like any prompt and asked to choose an alternate idea, which I allowed, but most of the time, there was a choice they were interested in. Sometimes their choices surprised me!

 

One thing I did was to use the "research paper" portion of Essentials for our history or science research project. (My ds loved history, so I had him focus on history papers, while my dd loved science and participated for numerous years in science fairs--so she focused there). I would use all of the instructions from Essentials on researching, note-taking, etc... but let them explore their topic of interest. 

 

For shorter assignments (for example, if I was having my kids write up a 1-page report on a person or event), yes, we skipped Essentials for the day and did the other writing instead. Sometimes that meant there were 1 or 2 essays we didn't get to from Essentials, but since it's spiral and repeats the types of essays from year to year (with some variation in types of essays, and with added/different instruction each time), I was fine with that. 

[HollyDay]

My oldest really reluctant writer liked Jump In the best.  But, that was after she did AG's essay writing. 

 

We also liked Ignite Your Writing.  It gave short activities that moved the reluctant writer in a smoother direction.

 

Analytical Grammar used to have an essay writing program that I really liked.  They have wrapped it into Beyond the Book Report.  I cannot comment on BYBR because I have not used it.  But, their essay writing program was really excellent.  Dd remarked it made the most sense to her than any of the other programs she tried. It helped her move into high school level writing.  Now, at college, she is doing very well with her papers and is no longer a reluctant writer.

[Blossom'sGirl]

I'm not sure what age range you are at, but I wish I could get Cover Story from clear Water Press for my reluctant writing 7th grader.  It looks like it would really speak to my reluctant writer.  Unfortunately it is not in the budget.

[RootAnn]

I tried all sorts of things with my reluctant writer. The only thing that has helped were time (age) and outsourcing. I've read many threads on the high school board about reluctant writers blossoming late in high school or when they get to college. Mine is still "allergic to the pencil," but she's much better than she used to be. It is a work-in-progress still, though.  :coolgleamA:

 

I will have at least one more reluctant writer in the gang & I'm still trying to figure out what I'll do when he's in the logic stage. I'm definitely going to work on fundamentals (writing good paragraphs) a lot longer vs. pushing for putting everything together into essay format. During the logic stage, short, good-quality paragraphs will be more important (for me) than finished compositions. Treasured Conversations (part 3) has a really good model for this.

 

The year after we did TC, my dd#2 & dd#3 did SOTW4 - which included a lot of outlining & summaries. It was great practice in implementing TC. However, neither of those two kids are reluctant writers, and things are so much different with natural vs. reluctant writers!!

[SilverMoon]

I turned mind around a bit by exploiting his interests. Anything with wheels and an engine, and preferably wings too...lol. He'd pick the topic, but I would pick the materials used for researching. More practically that looked like him picking a specific airplane and I'd search on the internet for various articles and information. I'd pick three that came from different angles and print them for him. He collected facts, decided what angle he wanted to write from, and wrote a paper. With loads of help along the way. I stuck to this for a couple/few months before I started mashing assignments from other subjects into his vehicles.

eta: I used Lost Tools of Writing with him in 8th and it was a good match for him. I wish I'd used it in 7th now. It was barebones simple and built up from there, but it clicked with him. Fwiw he's a stereotypical STEM geek who sees no reason for paragraphs when he can sum it up in a few syllables.

Edited August 19, 2017 by SilverMoon

[CAtoVA]

My 8th grade DS is doing IEW SWI Level B online this semester (recommended by a few posters above). He also loves history and science but does not enjoy writing and needs lots of hand-holding. My DS's biggest issues are with ideas and organization and IEW is great with overcoming those problems (in the past, these issues sometimes have been roadblocks to him even getting started writing). With IEW SWI B he doesn't have to come up with what to say and information is laid out in order already. Consequently, my DS is relaxing more and starting not to see writing as a painful, uphill chore. He actually excels with voice, word choice, and sentence variety so, for now, with the organization and idea "stuff" off of him he can just...... write. My hope is that weekly writing assignments using IEW SWI B will help instill a general habit of writing and cement feelings of confidence and competence in him. Then, next year, my plan is to use The Lost Tools of Writing (to help with ideas/content along with everything else), Writing with Skill (to continue to grow his ability to write various types of essays), and Kilgallon (for improving sentences/phrasing).

 

I used Writing with Skill Level 1 with my DS last year and that worked well to a point. He greatly enjoyed the focus on history and science topics, and the narrations/summaries, but he still sometimes would get overwhelmed with the sheer amount of information to sift through. IEW SWI B, at least in the beginning, is very straightforward and easy to navigate which helps my son's attitude and confidence in regard to writing. I find when my son's attitude is sunnier, and his anxiety is quelled, he is far more teachable : p!!

 

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by chiefcookandbottlewasher

[PeterPan]

Is he rising 7th? That's when my dd had a spurt and went from hating writing to enjoying it. It's hard for her, very hard work, but she enjoys it. I wouldn't give up hope that could happen. :)

 

Has the done outlines and summaries a la WTM recs for gr 5-7? I did that with my dd (not a ton, just some) using interesting articles from Muse magazine. So you don't have to kill his love of history or whatever to get it done. We used mindmapping software like Popplet and Inspiration, instead of using traditional outlining. Inspiration is amazing, because you can make a visual map, hit shazam, and it converts it to a traditional outline!!

 

When he's ready, either in 7th or 8th, I'd go ahead and do WWS. It sounds like it would fit your parameters. 

 

For my dd, the writing was hard because of her ADHD. Her processing speed is low relative to IQ, so to attend, get all her thoughts together, hold it, organize, get it out, it was just really hard! We did metronome work using Heathermomster's instructions (free on LC) and that helped dramatically. 

[silver]

We school year round and he's about 1/3 of the way through 5th grade. I think what I have him doing this year is a little low level for his grade (both books I'm using could be used with younger kids), but it seems to be working and building confidence, so that's good. 

 

I think Writing with Skill could be good for him, but he is definitely not ready for it right now (nor, from what I've read about it, would I expect him to be). I'm trying to find what sort of skills a student should have under their belt before starting WWS1. Does anyone have insight for that? If I planned to continue how we're going for 5th (ELTL 4 and Imitation in Writing: Fables), find something for 6th, and do WWS for 7th, what would I want to plan to cover/do during 6th grade?

[PeterPan]

You sound right on track! :)

[Targhee]

My DS hates writing, loves reading, science, and history. We use Writibg & Rhetoric. There's a lot of historical stories (and Fable, myth, and folk tales). The stories appeal to him, and because the writing tasks are varied and not strictly *about* the stories it hasn't quashed his love of history and story. He still hates writing (because organizing his thoughts is difficult, and writinvvthem out is slow), but he likes this better than WTM style writing approach. So do I.

[Familia]

Our son was that exact age when he when went from happily writing stories, short papers to tears over blank pages.  

IEW SWI B saved him.  He flourished.  A very strong writer, he received many kudos for his writing up to and through college.  

IEW solved a few problems:  he knew exactly what was expected of him because the checklist, not content, was what he was graded on, he accomplished something each week he could be proud of, and he had someone else doing the teaching, at a time when his working with me was going though a natural rough-spot.

[Homebody2]

I'm not sure why he dislikes writing. At first I thought it was handwriting he disliked. But now he's typing almost everything, and it still makes him groan and resist school work. I have seen improvement over the years, both in quality of output and attitude, so that's encouraging. Imitation in Writing takes away the "what to write" problem (in the same way that IEW does), but he still behaves like it is either the hardest or most boring task in the world.

 

I admit that it probably isn't very exciting, and incorporating science or history could help with that. *Sigh* I think what I need is something pre-planned that is like the 3rd section of Treasured Conversations. A short non-fiction passage with a specific writing prompt/question. He needed a lot of hand holding, but he seemed to almost like that section when we did it (the 2nd section with creative writing resulted in tears more than once). I'm not sure I have the time or ability to put together a years worth of writing prompts like that.

It sounds like our boys are in the same spot academically, although my son doesn't hate writing. He doesn't love it either.

 

We are just finishing the 3rd section of Treasured Conversations, and I am quite pleased. My son has done well, and we've both appreciated the structure. I plan on continuing the model of this after we're done. For example, I'll take a nonfiction passage from or science or history and come up with a topic. Then we'll work together to take notes, make an outline, and write a one paragraph report. After months of this practice, we can eventually stretch it out to more paragraphs, like a report on rattlesnakes with 3 paragraphs. One about what they eat, one about where they live, and one about their bodies. Then in 6th, I plan to move to WWS.

 

I think it's fairly easy to apply the structure of Treasured Conversations to other reading that you're doing, and it sounds like it might work for your son, too. Just my thoughts...

Edited August 25, 2017 by Homebody2