Take back the rainbow!! or Moxie hurt herself rolling her eyes

[Catwoman]

Oh yes, flat earthers are real.

 

There are five flat earther families in the town 13 miles from here, and they house church due to not wanting the influence of the local evil churches who think that science is real, the earth is a sphere, NASA went to space, Neil Armstrong was on the moon, and the earth orbits the sun.

 

I would imagine whomever dreamed up starting the society of flat earth has laughed all the way to the bank. From what we've been able ascertain, some flat earthers give A LOT of money to the organization.

 

Sigh.......

I have to ask you this, Faith -- how do you know there are five flat earther families in a town 13 miles away from you when I don't even know the last name of the people who live three houses up the street from me? :lol:

 

I can honestly tell you that I have no idea how many (if any at all) flat earthers live anywhere near me. I'm not even sure how I could find out if I wanted to know.

 

You must know a lot of people -- maybe I need to start getting out more! :)

[FaithManor]

I have to ask you this, Faith -- how do you know there are five flat earther families in a town 13 miles away from you when I don't even know the last name of the people who live three houses up the street from me? :lol:

 

I can honestly tell you that I have no idea how many (if any at all) flat earthers live anywhere near me. I'm not even sure how I could find out if I wanted to know.

 

You must know a lot of people -- maybe I need to start getting out more! :)

They were out proselytizing and came and introduced themselves to my twenty year old who spent several wasted minutes trying to reason with them.

 

They've been going around several communities telling people about their church, and the evils of the public school for telling children the the earth is round and orbits the sun.

 

ETA: I have talked with the "pastor" who called to ask some homeschooling questions. I am not happy that another homeschooler gave him my phone number since she knows my stance on science. Good grief. What a waste of my time!

Edited July 25, 2017 by FaithManor

[FaithManor]

Catwoman,

 

Here is the link to a GoFundMe for their latest fundraiser. Well, the local group can't take credit because it was started by someone in another part of the state, but they have been advertising this in little handouts they leave on cars. (Something that will probably change because a couple of municipalities are NOT happy about and are thinking of instituting a ban on putting flyers on car windshields.

 

https://www.gofundme.com/flat-earth-billboard-michigan

 

 

[creekland]

I've yet to meet a flat earth believer.  They must all homeschool (at least in my area) if they're out there.  I've met oodles who are YEC or OEC.  Neither belief poses a problem as long as they accept all we see happening today with mutations, and geology, etc.  So far, that hasn't been an issue at all.  On this board I've heard OF some who believe dino bones were faked, or all species were created "as is" rather than natural selection making more finches, etc, but none I've met IRL believe that.

 

I also know some folks who think the moon landing was faked and 9/11 was caused by our gov't, but those don't correlate with religious beliefs at all.

[creekland]

Catwoman,

 

Here is the link to a GoFundMe for their latest fundraiser. Well, the local group can't take credit because it was started by someone in another part of the state, but they have been advertising this in little handouts they leave on cars. (Something that will probably change because a couple of municipalities are NOT happy about and are thinking of instituting a ban on putting flyers on car windshields.

 

https://www.gofundme.com/flat-earth-billboard-michigan

 

Now you have me wondering if I can put up a similar page and collect the donations to do research myself...  Seems like a terrific way to fund travel expenses TBH.  They don't have much raised in the past month... I guess I'd have to publicize it a little more somehow.

[FaithManor]

Now you have me wondering if I can put up a similar page and collect the donations to do research myself...  Seems like a terrific way to fund travel expenses TBH.  They don't have much raised in the past month... I guess I'd have to publicize it a little more somehow.

Thank goodness they haven't raised much! Staggers.the.imagination.

[Guest]

I've yet to meet a flat earth believer. They must all homeschool (at least in my area) if they're out there. I've met oodles who are YEC or OEC. Neither belief poses a problem as long as they accept all we see happening today with mutations, and geology, etc. So far, that hasn't been an issue at all. On this board I've heard OF some who believe dino bones were faked, or all species were created "as is" rather than natural selection making more finches, etc, but none I've met IRL believe that.

 

I also know some folks who think the moon landing was faked and 9/11 was caused by our gov't, but those don't correlate with religious beliefs at all.

Most YEC people I have known IRL do believe that almost all animals (not domestic dogs, for example, or domesticated pigs) were created by God "as is." Otherwise, there would not be enough time for evolution of sub species to have ocurred. They also don't believe in drastic changes in geology and topography; they limit these posibilities to things that could happen catostrophically only. So, for example, a person so inclined would say that God created the Hawaiian Islands more or less as you see them today. They would acknowledge that the island is growing and changing even now, but they would still say that God "started them off" as islands that already had surface area above water, vegetation, animals, etc. Same with astronomy: they would say that all the things we see and know of were created "as is". This was the major point that caused me to do away with YEC. Light from stars a billion light years away were said to have been created with the light "in transit".

[Catwoman]

Catwoman,

 

Here is the link to a GoFundMe for their latest fundraiser. Well, the local group can't take credit because it was started by someone in another part of the state, but they have been advertising this in little handouts they leave on cars. (Something that will probably change because a couple of municipalities are NOT happy about and are thinking of instituting a ban on putting flyers on car windshields.

 

https://www.gofundme.com/flat-earth-billboard-michigan

That GoFundMe page looks like a joke! The description doesn't even sound particularly serious.

 

I have a feeling they won't be reaching their goal. ;)

 

Edited to add -- I just found the GoFundMe guy's YouTube channel, and he comes across as a crazy loner, not part of an organization, and he doesn't seem religious at all.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Catwoman

[FaithManor]

That GoFundMe page looks like a joke! The description doesn't even sound particularly serious.

 

I have a feeling they won't be reaching their goal. ;)

 

Edited to add -- I just found the GoFundMe guy's YouTube channel, and he comes across as a crazy loner, not part of an organization, and he doesn't seem religious at all.

Maybe he isn't. But the local lot who is proselytizing - they also believe the apocalypse is coming - is very religious.

[creekland]

Most YEC people I have known IRL do believe that almost all animals (not domestic dogs, for example, or domesticated pigs) were created by God "as is." Otherwise, there would not be enough time for evolution of sub species to have ocurred. They also don't believe in drastic changes in geology and topography; they limit these posibilities to things that could happen catostrophically only. So, for example, a person so inclined would say that God created the Hawaiian Islands more or less as you see them today. They would acknowledge that the island is growing and changing even now, but they would still say that God "started them off" as islands that already had surface area above water, vegetation, animals, etc. Same with astronomy: they would say that all the things we see and know of were created "as is". This was the major point that caused me to do away with YEC. Light from stars a billion light years away were said to have been created with the light "in transit".

 

Interesting.  Those I know feel only "kinds" were created - a dog kind, a cat kind, an equine kind, a bird kind, etc, and all species of the same kind evolved from them.   They say the fact that some species branch off so quickly today, proves it can happen given a few thousand years and limited movement (as with Darwin's finches).

 

They believe in catastrophic geological creations, but believe most of what we see today happened with the flood - including the Hawaiian Islands.  Volcanoes were part of the flood and the earth was in such disarray at the time that things then happened on a very quick time scale compared to what we see today (with today being thousands of years post "storm").  The continents broke apart and moved during the flood - the soft (wet) earth created the mountains with those impacts - all things like that.  They point to catastrophes like Mt St Helens and Surtsey to show how major things can happen in a short period of time.  Erosion happened quickly when things were still soft and less quickly after hardening.

 

The light thing (created in transit) is the same - along with the rest of astronomy.

 

It could be that I know a more educated group rather than a "Bible Said It" group.  I'm not sure.

[CJVW]

Here's my thought.

 

It is one thing to use the rainbow as a religious symbol and remind the public about God's promise, etc.

 

It is an entirely different thing to use it to "stick it to the gays."

 

In my opinion, this goes against the entire judge not/love everyone view of Christianity.

 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[creekland]

That GoFundMe page looks like a joke! The description doesn't even sound particularly serious.

 

I have a feeling they won't be reaching their goal. ;)

 

So... are you saying I can't count on doing similarly to fund my travels research?  Bummer!

[Catwoman]

So... are you saying I can't count on doing similarly to fund my travels research? Bummer!

:lol:

 

Did you watch that guy's YouTube videos? It's very strange to think that a religious group of any kind would try to help him reach his goal because he seems like a wackadoodle and he didn't mention religion at all in the videos I watched.

 

I would think that if a billboard campaign was so important to that group that they would devote the time and effort to printing out flyers and putting them on car windshields in parking lots, they would just start their own GoFundMe page and maintain control of the whole project themselves. It's hard to picture a religious group of any kind supporting that guy and trying to raise funds for him, but Faith has met the people and has seen the handouts, so obviously that must be what's happening, as crazy as it may sound!

 

I think your "research" is a better use of donor dollars than the flat earth guy's billboards! :)

[Guest]

Interesting. Those I know feel only "kinds" were created - a dog kind, a cat kind, an equine kind, a bird kind, etc, and all species of the same kind evolved from them. They say the fact that some species branch off so quickly today, proves it can happen given a few thousand years and limited movement (as with Darwin's finches).

 

They believe in catastrophic geological creations, but believe most of what we see today happened with the flood - including the Hawaiian Islands. Volcanoes were part of the flood and the earth was in such disarray at the time that things then happened on a very quick time scale compared to what we see today (with today being thousands of years post "storm"). The continents broke apart and moved during the flood - the soft (wet) earth created the mountains with those impacts - all things like that. They point to catastrophes like Mt St Helens and Surtsey to show how major things can happen in a short period of time. Erosion happened quickly when things were still soft and less quickly after hardening.

 

The light thing (created in transit) is the same - along with the rest of astronomy.

 

It could be that I know a more educated group rather than a "Bible Said It" group. I'm not sure.

Uh yeah. That's more us. I've honestly never encountered the kind in the post you quoted, or they didn't mention it if they believed that way.

[Wheres Toto]

Interesting.  Those I know feel only "kinds" were created - a dog kind, a cat kind, an equine kind, a bird kind, etc, and all species of the same kind evolved from them.   They say the fact that some species branch off so quickly today, proves it can happen given a few thousand years and limited movement (as with Darwin's finches).

 

They believe in catastrophic geological creations, but believe most of what we see today happened with the flood - including the Hawaiian Islands.  Volcanoes were part of the flood and the earth was in such disarray at the time that things then happened on a very quick time scale compared to what we see today (with today being thousands of years post "storm").  The continents broke apart and moved during the flood - the soft (wet) earth created the mountains with those impacts - all things like that.  They point to catastrophes like Mt St Helens and Surtsey to show how major things can happen in a short period of time.  Erosion happened quickly when things were still soft and less quickly after hardening.

 

The light thing (created in transit) is the same - along with the rest of astronomy.

 

It could be that I know a more educated group rather than a "Bible Said It" group.  I'm not sure.

 

None of the YEC I know think this much about the science.   They are more in the "Bible Said It" group, and believe that the things that contradict the quick account are either planted by the devil or just how God made them to look old.

[Tanaqui]

That's at least intellectually honest. In order to believe in "kinds" you basically have to believe that first there was no evolution, and then there was lots and lots of evolution on the world's most ridiculous timescale. It's incredible! I'm sure, of course, an omnipotent being could do lots of things, but again - why choose this method? It's absurd.

[Xahm]

This makes me giggle a little because, in his younger days, my husband and his metal friends would joke about "taking back the rainbow" from the lgbt community for the metal head community. Apparently, they had it first.

 

On a more serious note, as a former young earth believer whose church loved Ken Ham and company, I think these beliefs can cause physical harm. I see it in the susceptibility of conservative Christian young folks to believing all manner of conspiracies about the environment, vaccines, and medicine in general. When you tell kids for years that scientists are either stupid or deliberately trying to lead them away from God, it's no surprise when many of them have trouble knowing what to believe.

[Guest]

That's at least intellectually honest. In order to believe in "kinds" you basically have to believe that first there was no evolution, and then there was lots and lots of evolution on the world's most ridiculous timescale. It's incredible! I'm sure, of course, an omnipotent being could do lots of things, but again - why choose this method? It's absurd.

Not evolution, natural selection and hybridization. Starting out with a significant pool of genetic material for, say, s hrose or dog and populations being naturally or manually selected from there makes much more sense to me with the evidence base than starting from a single cell and gaining function and diversity, genetically and structurally.

 

But I'm a theist. Who isn't going to argue this. But is not absurd or stupid.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Guest]

None of the YEC I know think this much about the science. They are more in the "Bible Said It" group, and believe that the things that contradict the quick account are either planted by the devil or just how God made them to look old.

This has been my experience. And, when challenged, they usually just turn things around "are you saying the Bible is telling lies??"

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I didn't think YEC harmed anyone. But now I see Hs'ed children being denied an education over such issues.

 

I don't just mean that they use apologia high school science, because that doesn't stop anyone from going on to college and learning more. I don't just mean that they're homeschooled.

 

I mean that some parents won't allow their children access to the existence of other ideas, inventions, discoveries, and advances. They deprive them of knowledge of threats of climate change, anything about ecology, and vaccine preventable epidemics, and responsible health care options. All to keep them from encountering science.

 

At the end of this hs'ing experiment, the children are brainwashed into fearing college (it has occurred to people that they can only control their kids' education through 12th grade, so they have to get the kids' buy in if the paradigm is to endure)...which doesn't matter because they're too uneducated for college, anyway.

 

So the girls get married at 17-21 years old, and start having children whom they will, of course, homeschool. Secondhand ignorance, now, with everyone depending on the husband/father to support a large family willingly and not ever find himself underemployed, and not leave, get sick, or die. And if he's a problem or a failure, according to her education she has no choice but to stay with him AND she can't get a job except for shilling MLM products. Sometimes even if there's abuse (see the work of the Pearls and others), she doesn't know better than to stick it out.

 

Having figured this out, I do believe that YEC as a religion is hurting women and children.

[creekland]

None of the YEC I know think this much about the science.   They are more in the "Bible Said It" group, and believe that the things that contradict the quick account are either planted by the devil or just how God made them to look old.

 

I think this group must homeschool - or perhaps live in other regions.  There are a fair number of YEC kids who go to the school I work at and I've only heard tales of one who believed this way.  I was never able to ask that lad myself.  His family moved shortly after I learned about his supposed belief (from other teachers) that dino bones were faked.  They weren't sure if he really believed that or just wanted attention as he was the "type" to do/say things for attention.

 

That's at least intellectually honest. In order to believe in "kinds" you basically have to believe that first there was no evolution, and then there was lots and lots of evolution on the world's most ridiculous timescale. It's incredible! I'm sure, of course, an omnipotent being could do lots of things, but again - why choose this method? It's absurd.

 

Actually, the "kinds" belief is far more believable from a science perspective.  It agrees with what we see happening IRL now - like with Darwin's finches, various varieties of fish, viruses, etc.  It's part of why I don't care which way someone believes about the far past, as long as they don't dispute what we see now.  YEC (from this perspective)? Fine.  Flat earth?  Uh, can you fund my "research?"   :lol:

[HS Mom in NC]

The NT is universally accepted among Christians as directed to them.  There is a divide in Christianity as to whether or not the OT is directed to Christians as it relates to all commandments (not just the 10) and if so, which ones. I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea that there is some overlap between the OT and the NT.

[HS Mom in NC]

Here's link to other groups who have stories about rainbows.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_in_mythology

 

"Taking it back" is just obnoxious.  If Christians (or any other group) want to use the topic or image of rainbows to share their own religious/political/philosophical views, I think that's great.  But this idea that any group is tussling over rainbow imagery for themselves with an attitude that they hope diminishes its association with others is just petty and nasty.  Use it as a springboard for discussion to promote your own view in a civil way. But, as I said, be warned-not everyone seeing the same image will have the same associations, so keep it in mind when you use one in a situation where someone isn't explaining to those looking at it which associations you hope they're making.

[FaithManor]

:lol:

 

Did you watch that guy's YouTube videos? It's very strange to think that a religious group of any kind would try to help him reach his goal because he seems like a wackadoodle and he didn't mention religion at all in the videos I watched.

 

I would think that if a billboard campaign was so important to that group that they would devote the time and effort to printing out flyers and putting them on car windshields in parking lots, they would just start their own GoFundMe page and maintain control of the whole project themselves. It's hard to picture a religious group of any kind supporting that guy and trying to raise funds for him, but Faith has met the people and has seen the handouts, so obviously that must be what's happening, as crazy as it may sound!

 

I think your "research" is a better use of donor dollars than the flat earth guy's billboards! :)

YUP!

 

They do not seem particularly rational, and they get emotional very easily. There is some serious disconnect going on there so I don't think what "makes sense" occurs to them.

 

They appear to be a bit of a survivalist kind of group too due to their apocalyptic belief. They walk down the streets of the town carrying signs that say "Flat Earth is True" on one side, "Prepare for Armageddon" on the other.

 

I vote we all support Creekland!

[creekland]

YUP!

 

They do not seem particularly rational, and they get emotional very easily. There is some serious disconnect going on there so I don't think what "makes sense" occurs to them.

 

They appear to be a bit of a survivalist kind of group too due to their apocalyptic belief. They walk down the streets of the town carrying signs that say "Flat Earth is True" on one side, "Prepare for Armageddon" on the other.

 

I vote we all support Creekland!

 

As long as I don't need to carry signs like that during my research...  I prefer to be the unknown silent type doing research.  I think one gets better answers that way rather than calling attention to get biased results.  At least, that's how I can explain not wanting to carry the signs...

[nixpix5]

Here's my thought.

 

It is one thing to use the rainbow as a religious symbol and remind the public about God's promise, etc.

 

It is an entirely different thing to use it to "stick it to the gays."

 

In my opinion, this goes against the entire judge not/love everyone view of Christianity.

 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

Exactly. This is what boggles my mind. It feels petty and the opposite of loving.

[Mimm]

Exactly. This is what boggles my mind. It feels petty and the opposite of loving.

 

In his announcement he said that next time everyone's going to burn. I don't think there's any intention of being loving.

[goldberry]

This is totally satirical explanation (obviously from Stephen Colbert) about why the gay symbol is a rainbow.  I ran across it today and it reminded me of this thread.

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/9Rp8b