can't figure out if I can resell this

[cintinative]

It's the Learning Vitamins Masterpak 1 and Masterpak 2 CDs. I am selling stuff for a friend and she threw this in the box. I am confused by the wording on the CD that says "single-family use only." This is what it says on the website: With the Home Edition, you may print out Learning Vitamins drills, keys, guides, and achievement records for use by your immediate family only, that is, yourself, spouse, and your biological and adopted children of school age. Other use is not allowed.

 

It seems like they are implying no resale. Thoughts?

[MommyLiberty5013]

I take that to mean no mass reproduction.

 

What does the product's website say? If there is one...

[Mergath]

They just don't want someone using it to print content for a classroom or something like that. You can still sell it to someone else.

[cintinative]

I take that to mean no mass reproduction.

 

What does the product's website say? If there is one...

 

 

The website info is listed in the first post.  "With the Home Edition, you may print out Learning Vitamins drills, keys, guides, and achievement records for use by your immediate family only, that is, yourself, spouse, and your biological and adopted children of school age. Other use is not allowed."

Edited July 5, 2017 by cintinative

[JFSinIL]

I take it to mean do not resell.  Immediate family use only.  These small companies we love to use won't last if they can't make a minimum amount of sales.  If they ask materials not to be reproduced and/or sold outside of a family, honor the request.

 

I know there was a science product we used a lot - TOPS? - had the same caveat.

[JFSinIL]

They just don't want someone using it to print content for a classroom or something like that. You can still sell it to someone else.

 

I disagree.

 

[JudoMom]

They just don't want someone using it to print content for a classroom or something like that. You can still sell it to someone else.

 

This is how I read it as well.

[Katy]

That means don't use for mass reproduction or commercial purposes.  It doesn't mean you can't sell it.

 

 

ETA:  All companies would have better performance if you weren't allowed to sell anything that is used. You can, it is legal and fair.  What you cannot do is make copies of the material and sell the copies.  That is illegal.

 

Also, when you didn't agree to a contract, you have no legal obligation to follow a company's request.  See the mess with Zillow and the McMansion blog this week.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Katy

[gardenmom5]

I agree that it is "don't print it out for a classroom",  as that would be a copyright issue  (provided they actually obtained a copy right).

 

no company wants you to resell their product. (applies to *any* product).  all companies only want people to buy from them - after all, that is how they make money.  However -  that doesn't mean it is illegal to resell an item with which you are finished. 

[cintinative]

 See the mess with Zillow and the McMansion blog this week.

 

Okay, you have me curious. Link?

[chiguirre]

Okay, you have me curious. Link?

http://thecraftsmanblog.com/a-special-spot-in-mcmansion-hell/

[creekland]

http://thecraftsmanblog.com/a-special-spot-in-mcmansion-hell/

 

Not related to the site vs zillow issue, but I had no idea some folks get their jollies going around posting photos (from any source) of other people's houses and ripping them apart style-wise as if they are some sort of superior judge.

 

I'm sorry I clicked on that link making them think I care... other than now I know.

 

Our planet is filled with strange people (as I get my own judgment in). 

[cintinative]

Okay, another question for those still listening. It looks like (I didn't know this) DIVE Cds are also prohibited from resale by the same argument.  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fzhs0Vl9hFeozWAV3xvPRMWCJ3ohBduL6dKqkM8-UFo/edit

[Mergath]

I take it to mean do not resell.  Immediate family use only.  These small companies we love to use won't last if they can't make a minimum amount of sales.  If they ask materials not to be reproduced and/or sold outside of a family, honor the request.

 

I know there was a science product we used a lot - TOPS? - had the same caveat.

 

They can add that caveat all they want, but it's still not legally enforceable. If you buy a physical product like a book or a CD-ROM, first-sale doctrine says you have the right to resell it to someone else, period.

 

[Mergath]

Okay, another question for those still listening. It looks like (I didn't know this) DIVE Cds are also prohibited from resale by the same argument.  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fzhs0Vl9hFeozWAV3xvPRMWCJ3ohBduL6dKqkM8-UFo/edit

 

They can say whatever they want, but the physical object (ie. the CD) can be resold. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think a company can say, "If you open this product, you're automatically agreeing to our EULA and can't resell it." Then book publishers could do the same thing and print on the title page, "As soon as you open this book you're agreeing to our EULA which forbids resale." Um, no. Sorry. Lol. And the DIVE cds are essentially movies on a CD, right? They aren't really computer software. Some computer software now has no physical object for you to buy; you download it and rent a license to use it for a specified amount of time that you can't resell because the license is non-transferable. A bunch of videos on a CD is NOT the same thing and, afaik, can be resold.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Mergath

[cintinative]

Ugh. This is so tricky!  I also have Rosetta Stone from her.

[Katy]

It's not tricky.  The supreme court has made numerous rulings on intellectual property - once you buy a physical product, you can repair and resell it however you wish. Including hiring 3rd party companies to repair it. The company does not continuously hold anything other than copyright rights to any object it sells. This means you can't photocopy the information and sell the photocopies.  It in no way prohibits you from selling a copy you own.  Or 500 copies you own, if you do.

 

DH's company has been taken to the supreme court a few times over End User Licensing Agreements that are basically what that company is trying to illegally establish with the statement. You can resell the products, it is totally legal.  If you don't have a product to sell (a CD or DVD or book), then you don't own the product, you own a license to use the product.  Licenses may not be transferable, but products are.

 

It's possible the company wrote that request before the supreme court ruling.  It's also possible they're pulling a Zillow and just trying to intimidate people with legalese, with no standing at all.   Just in case you're interested in reading more on recent intellectual property rulings, here's a Wired article:  https://www.wired.com/2017/06/impression-v-lexmark/

[gardenmom5]

It's not tricky.  The supreme court has made numerous rulings on intellectual property - once you buy a physical product, you can repair and resell it however you wish. Including hiring 3rd party companies to repair it. The company does not continuously hold anything other than copyright rights to any object it sells. This means you can't photocopy the information and sell the photocopies.  It in no way prohibits you from selling a copy you own.  Or 500 copies you own, if you do.

 

DH's company has been taken to the supreme court a few times over End User Licensing Agreements that are basically what that company is trying to illegally establish with the statement. You can resell the products, it is totally legal.  If you don't have a product to sell (a CD or DVD or book), then you don't own the product, you own a license to use the product.  Licenses may not be transferable, but products are.

 

It's possible the company wrote that request before the supreme court ruling.  It's also possible they're pulling a Zillow and just trying to intimidate people with legalese, with no standing at all.   Just in case you're interested in reading more on recent intellectual property rulings, here's a Wired article:  https://www.wired.com/2017/06/impression-v-lexmark/

 

THAT is assuming they've gone through the process to even get those copyrights!   we're involved with a small business. . .he applied for copyrights before we became involved.  one (two?) has finally come though.  it took *five years*! (and a lot of money)   they're also with a large law firm that specializes in this stuff.  five YEARS is typical for obtaining a copyright.

 

I question they even have one (among other things, they have to prove uniqueness) and would put money they're just trying to intimidate.  becasue as katy has pointed out - the Supreme Court has ruled on this multiple times and hard property can be bought and resold until no one wants to buy it anymore.  this is one reason why software companies are going to a diskless format.

 

eta: i.e. you can resell a purchased dvd of a movie. (I know businesses that make a lot of money reselling books and dvds/cds).  you cannot copy the movie onto your own blank dvds, and sell those. you cannot show the dvd on a large screen and charge people to view it.  (you can allow your friends to view with you for free)  

- you can buy the curriculum and resell it when you are done.  you cannot copy the curriculum for anyone else to use (though it sounds like they will allow you to copy for multiple children instead of buying one copy for each child.),  you cannot copy the curriculum and sell the copies.  you can resell the curriculum when you are finished with it.

Edited July 5, 2017 by gardenmom5

[RegGuheert]

Ugh. This is so tricky!  I also have Rosetta Stone from her.

 

We just resold Rosetta Stone last weekend.  All of the materials were as provided by the company.  Totally legal.  What is illegal is Rosetta Stone trying to limit your ability to resell their product.

 

The EU has even taken this a step farther, ruling that you can resell software EVEN IF YOU DID NOT PURCHASE A PHYSICAL CD OR DVD, but rather downloaded the software from the internet.  But I have no idea if this concept has ever been tested in the US or not.

 

Another interesting thing about purchased software is that if the software gets abandoned, someone with a perpetual license can then BREAK THE LICENSE PROTECTION SOFTWARE in order to keep using the product.

[Bootsie]

THAT is assuming they've gone through the process to even get those copyrights!   we're involved with a small business. . .he applied for copyrights before we became involved.  one (two?) has finally come though.  it took *five years*! (and a lot of money)   they're also with a large law firm that specializes in this stuff.  five YEARS is typical for obtaining a copyright.

 

I question they even have one (among other things, they have to prove uniqueness) and would put money they're just trying to intimidate.  becasue as katy has pointed out - the Supreme Court has ruled on this multiple times and hard property can be bought and resold until no one wants to buy it anymore.  this is one reason why software companies are going to a diskless format.

 

eta: i.e. you can resell a purchased dvd of a movie. (I know businesses that make a lot of money reselling books and dvds/cds).  you cannot copy the movie onto your own blank dvds, and sell those. you cannot show the dvd on a large screen and charge people to view it.  (you can allow your friends to view with you for free)  

- you can buy the curriculum and resell it when you are done.  you cannot copy the curriculum for anyone else to use (though it sounds like they will allow you to copy for multiple children instead of buying one copy for each child.),  you cannot copy the curriculum and sell the copies.  you can resell the curriculum when you are finished with it.

You don't have to go through any process to get a copyright.  Are you thinking of patents or trademarks?  

[creekland]

It's nice to know I can resell Rosetta Stone.  For as much as we paid for that worthless bit of foreign language curriculum... anyone want it?   :lol:

 

When I get home, I'll see if we still have all of it, but I don't remember throwing it out or giving it away.

[cintinative]

It's nice to know I can resell Rosetta Stone.  For as much as we paid for that worthless bit of foreign language curriculum... anyone want it?   :lol:

 

When I get home, I'll see if we still have all of it, but I don't remember throwing it out or giving it away.

 

yeah, creekland and I will be selling the Rosetta Stone really soon! I am selling Latin American Spanish I and II.  LOL. Anyone want a DIVE Saxon 5/4 CD?

 

I don't know why, but I'm still skittish about selling the Rosetta Stone. I got called out on FB that it was against their policy (Rosetta Stone's). I don't know that the average FB user is going to handle this as discerningly as all of you.

[gardenmom5]

You don't have to go through any process to get a copyright. Are you thinking of patents or trademarks?

Patents. Sorry. Sleep deprivation after vacation.

But same deal. Physical merchandise can be sold and resold until no one wants to buy it. You can't sell a copy. You can't buy one legit copy, and copy/reproduce for the class, or business.

Significant software requires a license to use, and that makes it even more different. The software can't be used without the license and you can't sell/transfer a used license. 2ds has the same with etextbooks. He gets a license for a period of time. It's more akin to renting something. Not an actual purchase. But it's cheaper -and if he arranges his schedule right, he can use it for two classes.

 

Dd's already received notice someone was illegally downloading at work - if/when she finds them -she doesn't have time to actively search the whole company - they will be fired. She enacted controls (which should have already been there, but weren't) to prevent it happening again.

 

She lives in fear a software co will audit the sm business she's with because a previous tech department head illegally copied software (and faking licenses) instead of buying it. She's working to fix it, but there are so many issues she's had to triage everything to be fixed.

[RegGuheert]

It's nice to know I can resell Rosetta Stone.  For as much as we paid for that worthless bit of foreign language curriculum... anyone want it?   :lol:

 

When I get home, I'll see if we still have all of it, but I don't remember throwing it out or giving it away.

 

Gee, creekland, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel about Rosetta Stone? :laugh:

 

Hey, we got back almost 5% of what we spent on the software.  That's not too bad considering our children now LOVE learning languages using Duolingo.  It's not perfect, but it's free and they actually use it.  Kinda the opposite of Rosetta Stone!

[creekland]

Gee, creekland, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel about Rosetta Stone? :laugh:

 

Hey, we got back almost 5% of what we spent on the software.  That's not too bad considering our children now LOVE learning languages using Duolingo.  It's not perfect, but it's free and they actually use it.  Kinda the opposite of Rosetta Stone!

 

It's hard to love a curriculum that cost hundreds, your kids used for 4 years getting all As (computer graded), then they can't pass out of even one semester of that language in college...  :cursing:

 

After that experience with oldest, middle son just got free books from the library and told me he learned more from them in a couple week period than he felt he had learned from Rosetta Stone after two years.

 

BTW, he loves DuoLingo too.  ;)

[Mergath]

yeah, creekland and I will be selling the Rosetta Stone really soon! I am selling Latin American Spanish I and II.  LOL. Anyone want a DIVE Saxon 5/4 CD?

 

I don't know why, but I'm still skittish about selling the Rosetta Stone. I got called out on FB that it was against their policy (Rosetta Stone's). I don't know that the average FB user is going to handle this as discerningly as all of you.

 

Don't be. Like others said, as long as you're selling the original, physical copy, they can't do a thing. Their policy can say whatever they want, but that doesn't make it legal. As you can see from this post, companies will use all sorts of tactics to try to prevent people from reselling their products. They might even send you a very official-looking C&D email trying to scare you into thinking you've done something wrong. But the law is on your side, and they know it.

 

[Tammi K]

They can add that caveat all they want, but it's still not legally enforceable. If you buy a physical product like a book or a CD-ROM, first-sale doctrine says you have the right to resell it to someone else, period.

 

 

:iagree:

 

You can't print out copies and sell those images. You can't duplicate the CD. And you can't download and keep the info after selling the CD.

 

BUT, you most certainly can sell the CD.

[cintinative]

So, going back to my question in the OP, it turns out when I put the CD in my computer there was a "read me first" file that said the owner could resell the CD (yay for specific language!). 

 

This was still helpful as far as the DIVE and Rosetta stone packages though.