how to discourage flirting

[Bluegoat]

There is always the little note, with check boxes.  She could pre-check "I do Not want to date"

[Word Nerd]

I think there are some assumptions going on here regarding the definition of flirting. I didn't read the OP's post as the boy doing anything wrong, necessarily. He's not harassing her, objectifying her, verbally assaulting or taunting her. So the comments about her actions aren't victim blaming. There is no victim. There are two adolescents trying to navigate the new and sometimes uncomfortable nuances of hormones and feelings and relationships and communication. 

 

Exactly. 

[Pam in CT]

I like Tangerine's distinction between "clueless" and "relentless."  It's a good distinction to discuss with adolescents so they can learn to discern on their own.  Well, any age, really.

 

 

With a clueless person -- give a clue, kindly.

 

With a relentless person -- draw a boundary, firmly.

 

 

I advise my daughters away from tactics like "I have a boyfriend elsewhere" (especially if it's not true) or "I'm not interested in dating now" if the reality is they're not interested in dating a particular person.  To me, it teaches them to be inauthentic to spare someone else's feelings.  I'd rather they learn to find a kind way to tell a truth, rather than develop habits of duplicity just to soften the disappointment of others.

[Tanaqui]

There is always the little note, with check boxes.  She could pre-check "I do Not want to date"

 

*giggle*

 

But seriously, that one's a little mean.

[Bluegoat]

*giggle*

 

But seriously, that one's a little mean.

 

A lot of those notes were kind of passive-agressive, now that I think about it.

[Word Nerd]

In junior high a boy asked me to "go with him" on April Fool's Day. I said yes, then we both said, "April Fool!" in unison. Our dislike for each other was mutual.

[ondreeuh]

I was successfully relegated to the friend zone by a crush who told me, "I like being single. I don't want to date anyone, just have friends." That put me in line and we actually stayed good friends. I was in 7th grade and glad for the opportunity to not embarrass myself.

[Guinevere]

Someone once told me, "I don't date people from x activity."  Like, we were there for a certain reason, and dating wasn't it.  I didn't know him in any other aspect of life, so I took the clear hint, and appreciated it. .  He worked it into a conversation with other people, and it wasn't awkward at all.  He was a smart guy...I hadn't been overt at all, but he headed it off way before it got to anything.

[Pen]

I like Tangerine's distinction between "clueless" and "relentless."  It's a good distinction to discuss with adolescents so they can learn to discern on their own.  Well, any age, really.

 

 

With a clueless person -- give a clue, kindly.

 

With a relentless person -- draw a boundary, firmly.

 

 

I advise my daughters away from tactics like "I have a boyfriend elsewhere" (especially if it's not true) or "I'm not interested in dating now" if the reality is they're not interested in dating a particular person.  To me, it teaches them to be inauthentic to spare someone else's feelings.  I'd rather they learn to find a kind way to tell a truth, rather than develop habits of duplicity just to soften the disappointment of others.

 

 

Don't know if the boy is clueless or relentless, don't know how much "clue" has already been tried or what would be understood how : option 3: Draw a boundary, kindly.

[SporkUK]

Why is it disturbing to think that a 13yr old girl might inadvertently be sending signals that she is interested to a 13yr old boy?  I mean, it doesn't sound like this kid is sexually harassing her or anything, just trying to flirt, at least the way I understand the OP.  And, I don't think it's all that uncommon for 13yr old kids to get their "I am interested" and " I am not interested" signals all messed up. 

 

I don't view it as disturbing, and as others have said it isn't just teens, however...particularly in some parts of the internet as well as many recent media, the concept of misreading signals and unrequited love has gone from a neutral-cute kinda happens to everyone and we're all responsible for handling our own feelings sort of message which I think used to be the main idea even if individuals blamed their crushes to very much blaming girls and women when we don't meet boys and men's desires on a wider scale. We have recent tragedies of girls being stabbed for turning down to boys to prom -- and people supporting those boys with tales of "she led him on by being too nice"/"she should have just said yes"/"she should have known how sensitive boys are and not ..." and more disgusting violent rhetoric simply for saying no. So hearing anything like that may cause a kneejerk defensive reaction because some of us see far too much victim blaming and spotting red flags in the attitudes that are might work at 13 but not so well in a few years. I mean we literally have businesses now putting up signs to remind patrons that the staff being nice to them is because that's their job due to how many deal with rather aggressive flirting - it doesn't need to be harassment to not be appropriate or to be intimidating in this climate. 

 

I may have missed this suggestion, but could another adult get involved and ask the boy how he thinks she feels about the attention and repeated remarks about dating he's doing? I mean, I'm seeing a lot on considering his feelings and such but at this age it would be a good time for an adult if possible to reinforce to him considering her feelings rather than just his own desire to date her and helped him to see how his actions and words are negatively impacting a potentially great friendship and possibly making the space less enjoyable for her which isn't right for him to do. I have a 12 year old who is...quite oblivious and very intensely emotional and if another parent said he was acting as the OP described, I would certainly pull him up on it as would his father. 

[SporkUK]

I haven't read the umbrella thread. In this thread I've read about a 13 year old boy who has repeatedly "expressed his interest" discussed dates and flirting to the point a 13 year old girl wants help from an adult to make him stop. I wouldn't call her a victim but...she seems to feel to be in enough of an uncomfortable position to not do know what to do herself and ignoring that she's been put in that position by his actions, no matter his intention, doesn't help anyone. The impact of his actions I think should be the main focus rather than his intent or feelings. 

 

Signals are not universal, what one person views as 'interested' is not the same as another. I've had adults tell me that I must like someone because I laughed at a joke - I tell them they mustn't think they're very funny then since laughing at a joke is kinda the point.  We have multiple studies that give strong evidence that what one person views as basic niceness, another views as seduction. Really, as someone who gets crushes easily (I still remember being embarrassingly pulled up on ridiculous crush behaviour by a teacher when I was 6)...when someone has a crush practically anything could be a signal, it's the rose tinted glasses of various brain hormones. I don't think the focus should be on her "signals" since she can't ever be sure anyone won't read her action as meaning something else. Existing in the same room can be a signal and she shouldn't be run off or forced to triple think her every action in case he gets the wrong idea, he needs to be pulled up on it, take ownership of his emotions and control himself. He needs to be told he's making her uncomfortable and his desire to "express his interest" does not in any way give him right to over and over make her uncomfortable at camp. 

 

I have an oblivious intensely emotional 12 year old boy, I was that person as a child and to this day get ridiculously strong crushes, I still do not get why his feelings, his interest, how he's reading her actions, his desire to express it, his possible sensitivity to being turned down, her considering his feelings when she lets him down after dealing with it over and over appears to be be prioritized over him considering her feelings about his repeated 'expressions of interest', her feelings of discomfort, her desire to enjoy camp without being made to deal with this or be made responsible for handling his interest and feelings well enough. As I said, I can see why some jump to slippery slopes and red flags at the message 'she needs to be sure she isn't sending mixed signals' because recently it seems if girls and women do anything, it becomes our fault that men take an interest in us and we become responsible for their feelings and the actions related to them which is nonsense - by the looks of the news and media, quite dangerous nonsense that needs to be nipped in the bud as quickly as possible. 

[Word Nerd]

I think the focus in the thread on things the girl can do or be aware of is a pragmatic one: the OP says, "My dd13 is asking how to discourage a same-age boy's attention." The boy needs adult guidance in navigating these issues too, but the OP is not in a position to provide that and his parents aren't even known if I'm understanding the situation correctly. The OP or her DD could ask whoever is in charge of the camp to step in or for contact info for his parents, but for a short-term problem the OP says is "not a big deal overall," that's probably more than they want to do. Giving the girl information to consider—like signals she MIGHT be sending that he MIGHT be misinterpreting—is not shaming her, though. What she does with the information, if anything, is up to her—whether that means telling him directly that she isn't interested and he needs to knock it off or taking a less direct approach—and how she handles it will depend on what approach she's comfortable with and the extent to which he is annoying her. 

[Pen]

I am wondering what the current situation is.

 

Has the girl told the boy, "No," and asked the boy to stop yet? And if so, how, if she shared that?

 

If so, did he stop?

 

IWe have recent tragedies of girls being stabbed for turning down to boys to prom --...   and more disgusting violent rhetoric simply for saying no....

 

I may have missed this suggestion, but could another adult get involved and ask the boy how he thinks she feels about the attention and repeated remarks about dating he's doing? I mean, I'm seeing a lot on considering his feelings and such but at this age it would be a good time for an adult if possible to reinforce to him considering her feelings rather than just his own desire to date her and helped him to see how his actions and words are negatively impacting a potentially great friendship and possibly making the space less enjoyable for her which isn't right for him to do. I have a 12 year old who is...quite oblivious and very intensely emotional and if another parent said he was acting as the OP described, I would certainly pull him up on it as would his father. 

 

I am one of the people who thought the girl should tell the boy No clearly and directly. However, if the girl or her parents think the boy is likely to stab her for doing so, then my opinion would be that they should pull her out of the camp, like, yesterday, and talk to the camp authorities rather than take any such chance.

 

I have been under the impression that the girl never told the boy, "No."  Thus that he has been in a limbo world of maybe.  If he has been told no already and is persisting, it would certainly be a good time to hand it over to the adult authorities. IMO.

 

I've also been under the impression, in part from the title of this thread, that the girl wants help to learn for herself how to discourage flirting.  

 

If she wants help in the form of an adult to talk to the boy for her, I think that would also be an acceptable way to handle it.

 

 

But unless the girl herself wants an adult to step in, or unless an adult thinks the boy is dangerous, it makes sense to me for the girl to be learning how to speak up for herself.  At 13 an adult to help is fine. At any age if dealing with a person who is likely to be violent then help is fine. But the girl will get to an age and stage where she probably will want to know how to handle this sort of thing on her own, not to have an adult take care of it for her.  And at 18 in USA she will be an adult.  

 

Also how various of us respond may depend on whether we do or do not have boys of around that age, and whether our boys tend to act this or that way.

 

I know that I have done what I can with my ds to point out that a typical Hollywood movie scenario of a male hitting on a female who has clearly said, "No," is not romantic, not appropriate. That "no"  means "no."  And I know IRL that he has been on both sides of crushes, and that his no was accepted as a no by a girl, and that he accepted a girl's no to him as a no.

 

So my working presumption is that there has not been a clear, "no."  But if I am wrong about that, it would totally and utterly change the way I am thinking about the situation.

 

I think clearly there must be adults at the camp who could get involved. The question would be is that what the girl wants, or needs, at this stage?

 

There are also questions of what things currently mean. Not only perhaps your and my English being different as between US and UK, but also that words like "dating" seem to not mean the same thing to my son and his contemporaries as they did/do to me and mine right here in the place where I am at this time.  I don't know what they mean where Maize's dd is.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by Pen

[Rosie_0801]

You have used the phrase "pulled up " a few times now, and by context I think you mean something like scolded?  But I am not sure, can you explain? I have never heard the term before.

 

Not necessarily scolded, but spoken to in a manner that leaves the boy understanding what he needs to stop doing now.

[SporkUK]

Not necessarily scolded, but spoken to in a manner that leaves the boy understanding what he needs to stop doing now.

 

Yes, this. Pulling someone up is to make clear a standard that they need meet, an action that needs to either start or more usually stop, not general scolding which would likely be counterproductive here and may send mixed signals that his feelings are to blame rather than his behaviour. The OP maize said in post 15 that he has mentioned dating several times. To me, that's something he needs to be told stop doing in no uncertain terms and I would do so if told any of my kids acted like that. 

 

When I was pulled up on ridiculous crush behaviour for the first time, I had it pointed out to me by a teacher I was making them uncomfortable, I was looking silly, and I was to stop doing what I was doing (sending notes). It was mortifying since I was 6 and thought I was being very sneaky and clever and certain but otherwise nothing negative was said about my feelings being there, just how I acted on them & she was right. And I am certainly female so not sure where the idea is centered specifically on boys not getting to do things because I was and have seen girls these days told to stop making the targets of their crushes uncomfortable through their actions and boys certainly can be made uncomfortable by the advances of others. I used the sexes provided in this situation, if it was the other way around or a same sex situation I would have the same advice though with less tragic news.

 

I do not get how my pointing out that making her think about signals is counterproductive since anything can be seen as a signal with crush vision so she can never be certain about that turned into boys are never allowed to do anything with girls ever and reminding me feelings are normal after I had specifically said I was and still am that strong-crushes-make-me-foolish person so I get he likely feels strongly but still needs to be pulled up on his behaviour and given guidance, possibly that bringing it up repeatedly without getting a response of interest or an enthusiastic yes is a pretty clear message of no/disinterest.  A person's crush or interest doesn't obligate the other person to deal with them in any particular way and we have to be responsible for our own emotions like that, I think those are very important concepts. So if being in the same room makes one's crush radar go off or makes one uncomfortable without a direct reason, yeah, learn to deal with it but him repeatedly hitting on her in hopes she'll date him is a direct reason and should be dealt with either by helping her communicate and/or getting an adult involved - even adults sometimes need outside help with overly persistent people, I've known bathrooms of strangers to help ladies deal with this type of stuff. 

 

I thought that pulling kids up on this type of stuff was a common thing - person acts ridiculous because feelings, other person pulls them up and shows them that regardless of their intention & strong feelings, their crush also has feelings that need to be considered both on the individual and how they feel about the advances directed towards them and if their actions are causing someone they care about pain and creating distance then since they care about them and value their relationship as it is they should want to stop before things can't be healed.  "How do you think they feel about that?" is practically my catch phrase when one of my older two start gushing because I know how blinding crush vision can be -- though it's less needed with the 10 year old since she can gush on how pretty someone is in tons of detail for several minutes but won't talk to them and a few times it's just been a random person that's she's barely seen that has sent her aflutter which makes that question hard to answer. I have never heard someone wax so poetically about a stranger's hair until A described someone she had seen hours before in town to her poor brother who was not expecting A to gasp in horror that he had not seen this person and have her spend more than a few minutes trying to precisely describe different shades of hair to him. So yeah, I am very aware kids get crushes and there is nothing wrong with it but it doesn't make behaviour connected to it right. I mean, if we're thinking how they'll act as adults, an adult man bringing up dating without an actively positive response repeatedly would generally be considered creepy where I am -- as probably would discussing a stranger's hair in fine detail but at their current ages it's an awkward cuteness than can be gently guided to better behaviour which will hopefully help in the future but certainly needs to be dealt with if it's impacting others now.