Help Me Set Boundaries with the Neighbor Girl

[Supertechmom]

It's not a car. It's a go-kart. It's gas powered. DS is trained in driving it. Our rules are kids including our own and other kids can ride as a passenger while DS drives. No one else is permitted to drive it. It is only used when DH is home as it is gas powered and has a pull start and other things, quite frankly, I don't wish to manage. It's DH's thing. The driving rules are important for safety.

 

 

This. No other child can drive. Any child can be a passenger AKA "riding with." Hopefully, people read this...Kay pushes to drive. She is welcome to ride with.

 

 

I would not allow the go kart to be used while Kay was there.   I'm in good ole suburbia.   Children drive go karts (yes gas powered ) as young as 4 and 5 around here.  Trying to explain to an older child she can't drive when a younger child can will probably result in you sending her home every time, her constantly pressuring your child to drive when out of sight, or wind up forcing you to explain that you have no intent of teaching her to drive, so thus she can't. So save yourself the headache 

 

 for a different viewpoint...... Around here, we would teach  the child to drive and follow the safety rules we have (and all the neighbors for that matter).  There's 4 of us with go karts, 5 with golf carts, and everybody has those battery powered cars.   There are times when cars can't drive on the roads for kid vehicles.   We've all taken turns teaching various kids to drive. IF they prove to not listen to safety rules, they know they won't be able to drive again.  younger kids have adult  supervision.  7 and up would be unsupervised.  

Edited June 16, 2017 by Supertechmom

[sassenach]

Just piping in that I agree with the policy of not allowing kids who aren't your own to drive the go-cart. That's just way too much liability, especially with a boundary pushing kid whose parents aren't there to give their permission. No way.

[Pen]

Do your kids sometimes go to Kay's house?  Or is it all one sided?

 

Can you write up important house rules for safety ( go-Kart use, no dangling out of window, etc.) and give them to the Grandparents to go over with Kay and help her to understand?  Put some of the responsibility for teaching her what is okay or not on them, especially where injury could result.

[ondreeuh]

This is an 8 year old kid, and it seems you are expecting her to act much older. It seems clear her family culture is different than yours, and I sincerely doubt she is being manupulative or deliberate in her actions. If you want her to learn your family culture, you're going to have to explicitly teach her. She is 8! Probably not the most intuitive at picking up your hints.

 

"Kay, in your family, when I make a rule it is not up for discussion. If you don't want to follow the rule, then you will need to go home." And then when she inevitably questions your rule, tell her that if she will not follow the rule then she needs to go home.

 

Honestly though, I had friends whose parents were authoritative, and it was very difficult for me, as I came from a family that was more cooperative. Even in high school I would "get in trouble" for questioning what I saw as a confusing rule, because questioning their rule was seen as super rude. Some of those rules really were dumb, though.

[Seasider]

Just piping in that I agree with the policy of not allowing kids who aren't your own to drive the go-cart. That's just way too much liability, especially with a boundary pushing kid whose parents aren't there to give their permission. No way.

Great point!

 

And no matter what ages other families set for being able to drive go-karts, the your house/your rules thing still applies.

[MommyLiberty5013]

Oh for heavens sakes! Is no one reading but just posting? The go-kart is not unsupervised. Only one child can drive it. That child is my son. There is room for one passenger. Kay is often that passenger, which she is welcome to.

 

I am not trying to alter another parenting style. I like Kay. I like her family. This post is about snacks and about contradicting set rules and reasonable guidelines in our home.

[Tangerine]

I think perhaps your distaste for repeating yourself may not just apply to children.

[kitten18]

Oh for heavens sakes! Is no one reading but just posting? The go-kart is not unsupervised. Only one child can drive it. That child is my son. There is room for one passenger. Kay is often that passenger, which she is welcome to.

 

I am not trying to alter another parenting style. I like Kay. I like her family. This post is about snacks and about contradicting set rules and reasonable guidelines in our home.

People post after reading a post. They don't always read a whole thread with your clarifications.

 

If you don't want to repeat yourself you should edit your posts.

[Tanaqui]

Lots of people skim, or they post after reading only the first few comments.

[Guinevere]

The swimsuit thing is very interesting to me.  I love reading other people's opinions because it is so eye-opening and educational!  I would have been irritated that she piped up, too.  My kids know that they can offer, but cannot interject.  It's a win win.  No one is put on the spot, and Deb could have chosen, privately, what she wanted to do with the new information.  To me, that's the same thing as my kids are not to ask if another child can come over with the other child standing there.  

[Supertechmom]

Oh for heavens sakes! Is no one reading but just posting? The go-kart is not unsupervised. Only one child can drive it. That child is my son. There is room for one passenger. Kay is often that passenger, which she is welcome to.

 

I am not trying to alter another parenting style. I like Kay. I like her family. This post is about snacks and about contradicting set rules and reasonable guidelines in our home.

 

 

I am reading your posts.  I understand you have rules, you don't allow your children to question, your children have meek and mild personalities and you are the boss full on stop.  You asked for help (bolded above) dealing with a child who obviously didn't grow up with that type of adult, those kind of rules, and who isn't going to obey just because you said so.  You say you like the child and want her to play with yours.  So  I am trying to help you understand how things may be in her world and why that is causing conflict and find solutions that will not undermine your authority in front of your children. IN other words, you, the adult, are going to have to bend a little and spend more time in understanding the child in question and help her to learn your rules.   Or send her packing and piss off the neighbors and wash your hands of her.

 

You stated you wanted help with her contradicting set rules and reasonable guidelines - but that is again who defines reasonable and your reasonable may not be reasonable in her world.

 

For example IN my world, a 7 year old who has to be supervised with a go kart is a untrustworthy hellion with bad parenting.   If you told me you had to supervise your 7 year old on a go kart, I would be like ???what is wrong with your kid.....

 

In  my world, asking a 7 and 8 year old not to hang their legs out of a loft door is unreasonable and not logical at all.  Good god, we had a rope and swung out of the freaking door at 7. Mine have 3 story playset as high if not higher than a barn door loft so sitting on the edge seems pretty darn mild. That one might need an explanation. And because you might get hurt is a pretty lame excuse cause they do worse at home.   A response that my kids would have found acceptable would be more in line with the littles can't do it and can get seriously hurt or die if they try to do what you do so I need you not to do that so they won't copy you. Because I am going to be really upset if they get hurt and it will be weeks and weeks of issues if they do.  My kids could understand that at 7.  Being told not to and no explanation.... Nope.

 

In my world, setting rules is few and far between.  It is all about logical consequences.  Obedience is achieved through talking and understanding why I set a rule.  And there are no blanket rules that cover anyone. They are all fluid and negotiable depending on age and understanding.  A child raised like that is going to quickly get under you skin and cause you a great deal of angst.   Reason why myself and others have given you ideas that would work and cause you the least stress.   I am a parent to more than one little Kay.   

 

And I and others are trying to give you possible background reasons as to why she questions you and pushes your buttons so you can understand she may not be trying to disobey.  A totalitarian authoritative no questions asked adult may just be a foreign concept to her. It would be to mine. We very quickly weed out those families and move on.

 

Doesn't mean we aren't reading your posts.  Means we are trying to use the examples you gave to explain why by showing how those very examples work in our life and how we would handle it.  

 

The swim suit thing..... what is wrong with that?  I still don't understand it and as the other parent there would have said to Deb, You are being mean.   The child didn't want to do it at home, left her suit, and got here and decided it would be fun.  The rule was you can't do the activity in your clothes and another child gave a way out. Let your kid take the way out.    That's grace!  That's mercy! Stop being a meanie. "   Because for the life of me I can not comprehend a behavior problem so bad and so horrific that you would still say no in that situation and I would quickly say so.

 

Maybe Kay has that type of mother.....

[Rebel Yell]

Oh for heavens sakes! Is no one reading but just posting? The go-kart is not unsupervised. Only one child can drive it. That child is my son. There is room for one passenger. Kay is often that passenger, which she is welcome to.

 

I am not trying to alter another parenting style. I like Kay. I like her family. This post is about snacks and about contradicting set rules and reasonable guidelines in our home.

I'm amused that some state laws (I think) and many parents have stricter passenger rules for actual licensed teen drivers of cars. :D

 

I also want to point out that one family's "reasonable guidelines" are another family's "excessive micromanaging" and yet another family's "chaos and anarchy". I'll give you my personal example: Many friends have a reasonable guideline of "No more than two people on the trampoline, and no flips unless you're jumping solo." That is unacceptable to ME, as trampolines are not allowed for my kids as long as we're paying for their health insurance, so it also applies for the 22yo, LOL! But I'm sure that it also seems overly restrictive to an "Anything goes on the trampoline" family. Each of us have set rules that we believe to be reasonable, but yet they're all different.

 

But I do respect each family's right to set whatever rules they wish for their family. Even if I personally think it's silly that a 9yo cannot stick her arm out of a treehouse (or whatever it is) to wave Hello or catch a breeze or raindrop, I would expect my kids to follow that rule if they were playing at your house. And they would likely need continual reminders as it isn't a typical or common expectation, in my experience.

 

Also, is the girl and only child or youngest? She may also not have the concept of needing to dial her behavior/privileges/freedoms back to a younger age to be an example to younger siblings. Another example is that older teens might need to learn to watch scary/intense movies in their own room or somewhere not in the general family living/recreational rooms so that younger siblings aren't upset by or exposed to them. A youngest or only child would likely have no need to do that.

[Tanaqui]

I think you're being a little harsh, Supertechmom. It's completely understandable that she didn't want to pick a fight with her adult friend about parenting. This other mom's decision may have been odd, but it wasn't abusive. And while the OP's parenting style is very different from mine, I think I'd stop short of calling it "totalitarian". Her kids aren't toiling in the gulag, are they?

Edited June 16, 2017 by Tanaqui

[Tanaqui]

Also, is the girl and only child or youngest? She may also not have the concept of needing to dial her behavior/privileges/freedoms back to a younger age to be an example to younger siblings. Another example is that older teens might need to learn to watch scary/intense movies in their own room or somewhere not in the general family living/recreational rooms so that younger siblings aren't upset by or exposed to them. A youngest or only child would likely have no need to do that.

 

That's a good point, and it also applies if her siblings are all very close in age to her.

[SebastianCat]

Also, is the girl and only child or youngest? She may also not have the concept of needing to dial her behavior/privileges/freedoms back to a younger age to be an example to younger siblings. Another example is that older teens might need to learn to watch scary/intense movies in their own room or somewhere not in the general family living/recreational rooms so that younger siblings aren't upset by or exposed to them. A youngest or only child would likely have no need to do that.

 

This was my thought as well.  We recently had new neighbors move in on our street who have an "only child" the same age as my DD.  They've become friends, but it's very easy to see that an only child has a completely different home environment than children with siblings (even though I only have 2 kids, and my DS is older than DD, so different dynamics than in the OP's home).   It might help you to tell Kay that in your home, the safety of the youngest kids dictates some of your rules, but I agree with others that she'll start following your rules only when you've been kind but firm and sent her home a few times.   I agree with the advice to set boundaries by telling her when she is welcome in your home again.

 

With the snacks, I'd just make up your mind ahead of time whether you have a snack available for her, then if you don't, just say, "Sorry.  I only have enough for my kids today."   It's totally reasonable for you not to feed her all summer, but if your answer isn't "yes" every time, she'll probably ask every time.

 

My kids are 15 and 13, so much older than yours, but we have conversations ALL THE TIME about dealing with difficult people.   I assure them that the super-annoying classmate/neighbor/teammate/camp bunkmate/etc. will NOT be the most annoying person they must deal with in their lifetime, and we talk about strategies for handling those situations - when to stand their ground (safety, breaking laws, drugs, alcohol, etc.) and when to try to have empathy.   A few of these situations have led to a better understanding of the annoying person once the circumstances of their home are better understood, so we've ended up with some great life lessons.  If I was in your shoes, I would also be annoyed at Kay's behavior, but I'd look for teachable moments in the process.   As your kids get older, they'll be exposed to more and more people (and kids) who haven't been raised in the same environment and trying to understand what it must be like for an only-child whose parents both work full time, who gets shipped off to Grandma's house for the summer where she doesn't know anyone and the families don't look or act like hers, will probably give them (and you) more empathy for her behavior.   (Your kids might not be old enough for this kid of discussion just yet, but your oldest might, especially if he asks why Kay seemingly goes behind your back to ask if she can drive the go kart.)   Empathy shouldn't change your rules, but it does tend (in our experience) to help us respond in a kinder way to annoying people.

[mykidsrmyjoy]

I am reading your posts. I understand you have rules, you don't allow your children to question, your children have meek and mild personalities and you are the boss full on stop. You asked for help (bolded above) dealing with a child who obviously didn't grow up with that type of adult, those kind of rules, and who isn't going to obey just because you said so. You say you like the child and want her to play with yours. So I am trying to help you understand how things may be in her world and why that is causing conflict and find solutions that will not undermine your authority in front of your children. IN other words, you, the adult, are going to have to bend a little and spend more time in understanding the child in question and help her to learn your rules. Or send her packing and piss off the neighbors and wash your hands of her.

 

You stated you wanted help with her contradicting set rules and reasonable guidelines - but that is again who defines reasonable and your reasonable may not be reasonable in her world.

 

For example IN my world, a 7 year old who has to be supervised with a go kart is a untrustworthy hellion with bad parenting. If you told me you had to supervise your 7 year old on a go kart, I would be like ???what is wrong with your kid.....

 

In my world, asking a 7 and 8 year old not to hang their legs out of a loft door is unreasonable and not logical at all. Good god, we had a rope and swung out of the freaking door at 7. Mine have 3 story playset as high if not higher than a barn door loft so sitting on the edge seems pretty darn mild. That one might need an explanation. And because you might get hurt is a pretty lame excuse cause they do worse at home. A response that my kids would have found acceptable would be more in line with the littles can't do it and can get seriously hurt or die if they try to do what you do so I need you not to do that so they won't copy you. Because I am going to be really upset if they get hurt and it will be weeks and weeks of issues if they do. My kids could understand that at 7. Being told not to and no explanation.... Nope.

 

In my world, setting rules is few and far between. It is all about logical consequences. Obedience is achieved through talking and understanding why I set a rule. And there are no blanket rules that cover anyone. They are all fluid and negotiable depending on age and understanding. A child raised like that is going to quickly get under you skin and cause you a great deal of angst. Reason why myself and others have given you ideas that would work and cause you the least stress. I am a parent to more than one little Kay.

 

And I and others are trying to give you possible background reasons as to why she questions you and pushes your buttons so you can understand she may not be trying to disobey. A totalitarian authoritative no questions asked adult may just be a foreign concept to her. It would be to mine. We very quickly weed out those families and move on.

 

Doesn't mean we aren't reading your posts. Means we are trying to use the examples you gave to explain why by showing how those very examples work in our life and how we would handle it.

 

The swim suit thing..... what is wrong with that? I still don't understand it and as the other parent there would have said to Deb, You are being mean. The child didn't want to do it at home, left her suit, and got here and decided it would be fun. The rule was you can't do the activity in your clothes and another child gave a way out. Let your kid take the way out. That's grace! That's mercy! Stop being a meanie. " Because for the life of me I can not comprehend a behavior problem so bad and so horrific that you would still say no in that situation and I would quickly say so.

 

Maybe Kay has that type of mother.....

Wow, I know I would think twice about asking for advice on this forum if I received a response like this. I totally understand having differences of opinion, and think it's great to be able to discuss and disagree. But isn't there a gentler way to do that?

[Supertechmom]

I apologize if my last response came across as harsh.  That wasn't my intent.

[bolt.]

I apologize if my last response came across as harsh. That wasn't my intent.

We get it. It's super hard to convey a counter-opinion in writing without sounding harsh. (It's even harder to actually sound gentle.)

[Rebel Yell]

I apologize if my last response came across as harsh.  That wasn't my intent.

  

We get it. It's super hard to convey a counter-opinion in writing without sounding harsh. (It's even harder to actually sound gentle.)

To my "ears" it sounded direct but not harsh. But that also could be because I mostly agreed with super tech mom

 

But I also know enough people,with family dynamics similar to the OP and they would have reacted as she did.

 

That's why we're all here, tomget some varied responses. Not all of them will apply or work for everyone, but hopefully it gets people thinking about different ways of doing things or different background experiences etc

[MommyLiberty5013]

I have provided clarification and updates in the OP.

 

I am considering this discussion closed as so many of you have been helpful in giving great advice, which I will incorporate into my next time with Kay - likely tomorrow. I have what I need and feel confident I can proceed with ease.

 

If you all wish to continue to discuss on your own about nebulous parent concepts here I'm okay with that, but please refrain from making assumptive statements about me or my children and I am not going to contribute anymore to this discussion in relation to Deb, Kay, Joy, or my family. It's becoming too much to handle re: time management and emotions. TIA.