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California Charter Schools and A-G requirements

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I'm looking into possibly joining a charter school group (like Sage Oak) as one of the California options for homeschooling.  Can anyone share pros and cons?  I use a lot of Christian materials but have been told I can get around that.  Not sure about things like Rod and Staff English (as every line seems to be religious).  

 

My biggest concern is if I should put my highschooler in or just the younger kids.  The highschooler could take classes locally though (like biology w/lab) that I could otherwise not afford.  But, I do not understand a-g, I've tried.  I can't figure out what it is, what the requirements look like, or what the curriculum is that I would have to use.  Could I still use Biblioplan like planned or do I have to do whatever they tell me?  I understand following some rules, but I still want the freedom to teach what I want.  Biblical worldview is important to me.  

 

Any input or help?  I know that I could not longer be a part of HSLDA if I join.  

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1) Some schools make you sign an agreement not to use sectarian/religious requirements. Some just don't want you to turn in religious samples. None of them will purchase religious materials for you to use. Ask about this very, very carefully at your first meeting with then. And then be prepared for the results to be influenced by who your assigned supervising teacher ends up being. Note that you can change teachers once one is assigned, but don't do it w/o cause.

 

2) A-G requirements specify textbook (state approved, secular) and learning objectives as well as semester projects. So, short answer, no you wouldn't be able to use Biblioplan. And it's basically an all-or-nothing decision - either you're doing A-G for all specified classes, or you're not going to get an A-G approved diploma. You should ask how they do A-G classes as well. We were in the situation where the class was partly on-campus (2 days/week) and partly online by a 2nd teacher. My dd was totally stressed out by the online assignments, which were not well coordinated with the on-campus teacher's assignments. But not all charters do A-G the same way.

 

3) Don't assume you can make the charter fit your mold. You'll be disappointed. Respect what they do offer you. Go into it for the benefit of having another teacher your child is accountable to and who will encourage your child, for the benefit of not paying for curriculum, having small on-campus classes that allow your child to make friends, having the flexibility to design/choose your own electives (but probably not bible), support in dual enrollment, etc.. Treat the teacher as your partner and work with him/her, or find another one. For us, we chose the non-A-G diploma because of the stress trying to meet A-G requirements meant for my child, knowing that the type of diploma didn't matter for the community college she planned to attend. It was the right thing for her, but it might not be for someone whose kid wants to attend a 4-year school with scholarship!

 

May God guide your way,

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I would not put the high schooler in. Charters are pretty flexible until the student hits high school level (and algebra 1 is considered a high school course even if the student is still grade wise in middle school). We pulled my oldest out due to the inflexibility (later pulled out my DS so now both are under the PSA).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I am using a sage oak charter for my daughter next year again. I pulled her out for ninth grade, but she really missed all that the charter offered us ( outsourced art lessons and supplies, great literature books etc.) She will also get drivers ed paid for.

We are using a combination of curriculum for her: Video text, oak Meadow and Acellus. All high school curriculum must be secular just fyi.

 

 

We are not going the A-G route with her. She already has her after high school college picked out and doesn't need it.

 

My other 3 kids are also in the charter and have been the last two years, but they are k, 5th, and 7th. I have used beautiful feet, BJU press, apologia , first language lessons, story of the world, plus many other secular and Christian curriculum. K-8 , you can use whatever you want, the sample just has to be secular. They also get art lessons, horsebackriding lessons, monthly kits and some curriculum.

 

I don't recommend everyone going with a charter. It works for my family, but we need it for the funds. I am super organized, so monthly meetings are no biggie to me. My kids get so many enrichments and they love our supervising teacher.

 

Also, even though many may feel I am not a real homeschooler,...I'm okay with that ;) I'm still the only one that teaches them everyday.

 

Feel free to PM me any questions.

Edited by Peacefulisle
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I'm looking into possibly joining a charter school group (like Sage Oak) as one of the California options for homeschooling.  Can anyone share pros and cons?  I use a lot of Christian materials but have been told I can get around that.  Not sure about things like Rod and Staff English (as every line seems to be religious).  

 

My biggest concern is if I should put my high schooler in or just the younger kids.  The high schooler could take classes locally though (like biology w/lab) that I could otherwise not afford.  But, I do not understand a-g, I've tried.  I can't figure out what it is, what the requirements look like, or what the curriculum is that I would have to use.  Could I still use Biblioplan like planned or do I have to do whatever they tell me?  I understand following some rules, but I still want the freedom to teach what I want.  Biblical worldview is important to me.  

 

Any input or help?  I know that I could not longer be a part of HSLDA if I join.  

 

No, you would not be able to use any Rod and Staff materials.

 

You understand that the reason you would not be able to be a member of HSLDA is that your children would be public school students, not private school students (which is what homeschoolers are in California) and so you would not need HSLDA's services. And also technically, charter school enrollment is not an "option for homeschooling." It is a home-based public school.

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Hi,

 

Many of my friends are in charter school similar to Sage. Honestly they all take their kids out or use public school for high school. The charter has very strict requirements for high schoolers and when the kids were little they could submit any sample that didn't have Christian stuff on it. So they used their own money to buy a lot of Christian curriculum and used the charter

For dance, gymnastics, horse, music etc.

 

But when you get to high school all your textbook have to be secular. You have to meet with a teacher twice a week

For most subjects and you also have to fulfill

Very specific and not very good education plans. What the teacher does in the online or lab class doesn't match the syllabus or textbook- they just do it to meet the requirement. The whole thing is so frustrating many give up and turn to public school in fear that it is impossible.

 

You can meet A-G requirements through subject testing or through a high sat scores.

 

I would encourage you to ask vey carefully exactly what is required and look at physical samples and talk to families that have high schoolers with Sage. If you really need the money you may want to dance their dance :) if you aren't desperate for the money then it only makes it so much harder not easier.

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Actually at sage oak, you only have to meet with the supervising teacher once a month :) as a high schooler.

Edited by Peacefulisle
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It is state law that public schools are not allowed to use religious materials. As Ellie said,the charters are a public school option for homeschoolers. Because of this, all the work you submit must not have any Christian material in it. Most of my friends chose the charter option because of the money but ended up being really frustrated because of the non-religious requirements. It also included the books they read. Some of them did the same things twice- once with the materials they wanted (and purchased with their own money) and once with an acceptable secular option. They obviously made it work but it was a lot more work for them and it kinds of seems like a waste of time to do things twice. Also, the supervising teacher you have makes a huge difference. My friends all had the same supervising teacher which allowed them more religious materials than would normally be allowed. When I looked into it, it just made both my husband and I uncomfortable with being dishonest. We are on a tight budget and the funds would have been nice but it felt like it comes at the price of our freedom and we would prefer that. So we did the private school option and I find our materials used and also budget carefully.

 

All this to say, I don't know much about the high school stuff. This was all middle and elementary grades. Anyway, I don't know if this was helpful but here you go. :)

Edited by 4Kiddos
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Actually at sage oak, you only have to meet with the supervising teacher once a month :) as a high schooler.

 for A-G...if you're doing A-G it requires live class time with a certfied teacher, or UC won't approve it...

 

Are you doing A-G or just regular high school Peaceful?

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for A-G...if you're doing A-G it requires live class time with a certfied teacher, or UC won't approve it...

 

Are you doing A-G or just regular high school Peaceful?

Ah...I get it now. We are not doing A-G just regular high school. My dd will be going to a private Christian college so it is not needed.

 

Thanks for clarifying :) I was a bit confused. Good to know.

If we had to do the twice a week thingy, I'd be out.

Edited by Peacefulisle

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Are you sure that's always the case?   Someone I know on another forum says that with her California charter, they pay for any pre-approved curriculum, but she picks it out, and can use other curriculum if she wants (even religious curriculum) so long as they pay for it themselves.   And as long as her child tests  at grade level she has complete control and no one interferes with her teaching.  That sounds like homeschooling to me.

 

 

No, you would not be able to use any Rod and Staff materials.

 

You understand that the reason you would not be able to be a member of HSLDA is that your children would be public school students, not private school students (which is what homeschoolers are in California) and so you would not need HSLDA's services. And also technically, charter school enrollment is not an "option for homeschooling." It is a home-based public school.

 

 

Edited by goldenecho

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I'm looking into possibly joining a charter school group (like Sage Oak) as one of the California options for homeschooling.  Can anyone share pros and cons?  I use a lot of Christian materials but have been told I can get around that.  Not sure about things like Rod and Staff English (as every line seems to be religious).  

 

My biggest concern is if I should put my highschooler in or just the younger kids.  The highschooler could take classes locally though (like biology w/lab) that I could otherwise not afford.  But, I do not understand a-g, I've tried.  I can't figure out what it is, what the requirements look like, or what the curriculum is that I would have to use.  Could I still use Biblioplan like planned or do I have to do whatever they tell me?  I understand following some rules, but I still want the freedom to teach what I want.  Biblical worldview is important to me.  

 

Any input or help?  I know that I could not longer be a part of HSLDA if I join.  

 

If using materials that promote a Christian Biblical worldview is important to you, I would not enroll in a public school. By law, public schools use secular materials. Yes, there are some who try to get around the law by turning in secular samples while teaching from religious materials. Personally, I think it's intellectually dishonest, and is a major pet peeve of mine. This isn't a criticism of you specifically, OP, but this practice is rampant among homeschool charter students in our area. They complain about not being able use charter funds to go on field trips to the Creation Museum, etc. It's out of control.

 

At the elementary level, it is fairly easy to get away with teaching from religious materials, but the high school level is a whole different ballgame, especially if you are considering attempting to meet A-G requirements. Again, the UC schools are state schools, which by law means that they are secular. As such, their admission requirements require secular materials. If you want the freedom to teach what you want, file a PSA and teach what you want.  

Edited by SeaConquest
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Are you sure that's always the case?   Someone I know on another forum says that with her California charter, they pay for any pre-approved curriculum, but she picks it out, and can use other curriculum if she wants (even religious curriculum) so long as they pay for it themselves.   And as long as her child tests  at grade level she has complete control and no one interferes with her teaching.  That sounds like homeschooling to me.

 

It is homeschooling. This is just Ellie's pet project. She loves telling CA homeschoolers who use a charter that we are not "real" homeschoolers. Legally, there are no homeschoolers in CA. There are public schools (including public independent study programs through charters) and private schools. Homeschools are just extremely tiny private schools. It's a distinction with very little meaning in terms of what happens day to day. Some private homeschoolers outsource everything, and some charter students teach everything at home. They are equally homeschoolers, IMO, but YMMV as to what homeschooling looks like for you.

Edited by SeaConquest
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Golden cho-

 

Not for AG high school,

 

If you want to stay with a charter for high school and you want to do A-G NONE of your materials (regardless of who pays for them) can be Christian because you have to follow their exact approved textbooks and syllabus, and none of them are Christian.

 

Some faith based Us have had their courses approved for their high school extensions but those particular courses don't really have any faith content (I am thinking of BYU) BUT your charter will not pay for those courses at BYU

Because the institution is faith-based.

 

My friends that do Ocean Grove Charter are considering giving up the charter because it's harder to fulfill A-G through them, then as a private homeschoolers (and that's saying a LOT because it is NOT easy as a private homeschooler)

 

Again, it comes down to this;

 

The charter will NOT make it in any way easier to fulfill A-G requirement. In some ways it's harder.

It comes down to whether you really need the 2K for extra curricular lessons such as music lessons or dance etc.

Edited by Calming Tea

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Ps I fully support charter homeschoolers and the whole idea of the charter movement

In CA.

 

But I do have a very hard time with the fact that my friends use Christian materials and then cherry pick a single page that does not have Jesus in it. To me that's very intellectually dishonest.

 

And that's not even mentioning the fact that Jesus tells us not to hide His name and that He will give us what we need. He says He who denies Me I will deny.

 

But that's easy for me to say as we are tech industry and not scraping by just to put food on the table. If I were in that position I might feel compelled to lie, as the midwifes

Did to save the Israelite boys. But what would probably more likely do is just choose and use secular curriculum so I wouldn't have to team up with my ES to lie every month.

 

These are all side issues that you need to consider.

And yes I outsource almost everything and I have charter school friends sitting at their kitchen table teaching almost every subject day by day. They aren't any less homeschoolers in my eyes. Maybe more! I'm and out-home-schooler lol

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Ps I fully support charter homeschoolers and the whole idea of the charter movement In CA.

 

But I do have a very hard time with the fact that my friends use Christian materials and then cherry pick a single page that does not have Jesus in it. To me that's very intellectually dishonest.

 

And that's not even mentioning the fact that Jesus tells us not to hide His name and that He will give us what we need. He says He who denies Me I will deny.

 

But that's easy for me to say as we are tech industry and not scraping by just to put food on the table. If I were in that position I might feel compelled to lie, as the midwifes Did to save the Israelite boys. But what would probably more likely do is just choose and use secular curriculum so I wouldn't have to team up with my ES to lie every month.

 

These are all side issues that you need to consider. And yes I outsource almost everything and I have charter school friends sitting at their kitchen table teaching almost every subject day by day. They aren't any less homeschoolers in my eyes. Maybe more! I'm and out-home-schooler lol

 

This. It has been *so* common since before charter schools started up, when it was home-based Independent Study Programs.

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because you have to follow their exact approved textbooks and syllabus, and none of them are Christian.

 

 

 

This all depends on the charter school you use. Ours has recommended textbooks, but they are not required. There are syllabi for each high school "course", but I don't find them too limiting. It's really not that hard to use a charter to homeschool a high schooler. I have found it to be quite flexible. Look on Facebook and see if theres a homeschooling with a charter group near you. Those groups are super helpful in helping you navigate the homeschool charter schools near you.

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Golden cho-

 

Not for AG high school,

 

If you want to stay with a charter for high school and you want to do A-G NONE of your materials (regardless of who pays for them) can be Christian because you have to follow their exact approved textbooks and syllabus, and none of them are Christian.

 

Some faith based Us have had their courses approved for their high school extensions but those particular courses don't really have any faith content (I am thinking of BYU) BUT your charter will not pay for those courses at BYU

Because the institution is faith-based.

 

My friends that do Ocean Grove Charter are considering giving up the charter because it's harder to fulfill A-G through them, then as a private homeschoolers (and that's saying a LOT because it is NOT easy as a private homeschooler)

 

Again, it comes down to this;

 

The charter will NOT make it in any way easier to fulfill A-G requirement. In some ways it's harder.

It comes down to whether you really need the 2K for extra curricular lessons such as music lessons or dance etc.

Ocean Grove pays for BYU. I don't think they care if it's a religious institution. They care that the class is secular.

 

I also don't recommend using a charter in high school unless you are outsourcing to providers covered by your charter. So if you want to take two classes at BYU and two at WTMA, charter could be an increadible deal. Check on vendors for your particular charter.

Having said that, We are not religious, but overall reporting requirements for high school are just too much for us, so we will be foregoing to funding to go it alone when the time comes. K through 8 is easy to work with a charter.

Edited by Roadrunner
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This all depends on the charter school you use. Ours has recommended textbooks, but they are not required. There are syllabi for each high school "course", but I don't find them too limiting. It's really not that hard to use a charter to homeschool a high schooler. I have found it to be quite flexible. Look on Facebook and see if theres a homeschooling with a charter group near you. Those groups are super helpful in helping you navigate the homeschool charter schools near you.

Not for A-G- for A-G they will have very specific requirements!

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Ocean Grove pays for BYU. I don't think they care if it's a religious institution. They care that the class is secular.

 

I also don't recommend using a charter in high school unless you are outsourcing to providers covered by your charter. So if you want to take two classes at BYU and two at WTMA, charter could be an increadible deal. Check on vendors for your particular charter.

Having said that, We are not religious, but overall reporting requirements for high school are just too much for us, so we will be foregoing to funding to go it alone when the time comes. K through 8 is easy to work with a charter.

Sorry for the wrong info on BYU.

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We are with a charter and my plan is to pull my kids out when they reach high school. I'm still researching college requirement since it seems they all have different qualifications. Most homeschoolers (not with a charter) I know go the jr college route which eliminates the need for A-G classes and saves money. I do know a few families who went straight to private universities without any problems. I've been told the universities have different requirement for homeschoolers so it would be a benefit to not be with a charter since a charter student's application shows as just a public school student so you need all of the A-G requirements. None of my friends kids have gone straight to a public university though so I have yet to see that firsthand. Another reason a lot of homeschoolers go to jr college first is because in CA duel enrollment at jr college is free aside from the cost of books. Duel enrollment kids don't get first priority when picking classes though and our jr colleges tend to be overcrowded. I homeschool for flexibility with schooling and if I stay with the charter I lose that flexibility. I also feel I can provide a better education without the charter for high school than I can within the charter guidlines.

Edited by Momto4inSoCal
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Thank you so much everyone.  I appreciate all the helpful responses.  I am thinking I better avoid charter school for high school.  As much as I'd love the financial help, it is not what I want for the direction we want to go in high school and the whole purpose of me homeschooling.  It may be best for our family to avoid it for the younger kids, too.  The money help is so tempting though.

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I'm looking into possibly joining a charter school group (like Sage Oak) as one of the California options for homeschooling.  Can anyone share pros and cons?  I use a lot of Christian materials but have been told I can get around that.  Not sure about things like Rod and Staff English (as every line seems to be religious).  

 

My biggest concern is if I should put my highschooler in or just the younger kids.  The highschooler could take classes locally though (like biology w/lab) that I could otherwise not afford.  But, I do not understand a-g, I've tried.  I can't figure out what it is, what the requirements look like, or what the curriculum is that I would have to use.  Could I still use Biblioplan like planned or do I have to do whatever they tell me?  I understand following some rules, but I still want the freedom to teach what I want.  Biblical worldview is important to me.  

 

Any input or help?  I know that I could not longer be a part of HSLDA if I join.  

 

Going back to your original question, it was about high school.

 

BUt that doesn't mean, if you are willing to use secular materials, that you can't use the Charter for the younger kids.  That would be approx 9k per year to use on lessons, music lessons, horseback riding, etc.  Many materials you may already use and love are secular such as WMTM, many CM materials, Math U See, Singapore Math, Saxon Math etc.  WIth a big family, I know that 9 or 10K might mean a lot to your kids.

 

And, I support school choice so that families can give their kids the education and experiences they need to make them well rounded.

 

My own idea, if I needed the money would be, that I would just be truthful with myself and my ES and just use secular materials, and then teach BIble mysel on my own time.  

 

As your kids get through the ranks into high school, you can drop the charter and do your own thing through a PSP or through filing the PSA.  If your kids are very good test takers, they can use the "Admission by Examination" to circumvent getting all A-G approved classes.  Or, they can apply to a Christian U that doesn't require A-G, or go out of state (AZ loves CA students!)...I really feel like GOd will provide, if we keep our minds and options open, and take things year by year.  

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We are a completely secular family and we used Rod and Stuff one year for grammar. It never occurred to me to me report it. It was one of the materials among others for language arts. We have never turned in a grammar sample. Nobody ever asked. We usually run in a composition for English. We used Writing and Rhetoric for writing, which the charter denied for funding, but they loved the writing samples we turned in from that book. That series has some religious references (hence the rejection), but the majority of content is secular and we had no issues. I don't know. I think some religious materials are fine. You are paying out of your own pocket. If 95% of what you have has religious references on every page, then maybe yes, charter isn't the best option, but if you use a mixture of things, I don't see it a problem. $9k for your young kids can take some financial pressure off and allow you to finance your higher schooler better. It's up to you of course, but it's worth considering. We couldn't have done half the things we do without those funds, including taking WTMA courses.

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Not for A-G- for A-G they will have very specific requirements!

 

I have high schoolers enrolled in a California charter school who are doing UC approved A-G requirements and I do not have to use a specific textbook.

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Thank you so much everyone.  I appreciate all the helpful responses.  I am thinking I better avoid charter school for high school.  As much as I'd love the financial help, it is not what I want for the direction we want to go in high school and the whole purpose of me homeschooling.  It may be best for our family to avoid it for the younger kids, too.  The money help is so tempting though.

 

You really should talk to people in your area who use the specific charter school you are looking at. Look on Facebook for groups, there are a ton of them. We have several charter schools in my city, some are notoriously difficult to work with, and others are much easier. Also, it makes a huge difference who your facilitator teacher is. I've had some that were awesome, and others that were a little more challenging. I have 2 high schoolers, and a 3rd grader enrolled at a charter, and it's just not that big of a deal. I mean, maybe because I'm used to the paperwork, etc... but it's totally worth the extra effort for the funds. I think I read you were looking at Sage Oak? I have a friend who has elementary kids enrolled there. If you are in Southern California, message me, if you are near me, I can give you some charter suggestions for high school. 

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I have high schoolers enrolled in a California charter school who are doing UC approved A-G requirements and I do not have to use a specific textbook.

I guess I can't understand that, when a school submits their course for A-G approval they have to submit very detailed paperwork including the name of the textbook, the entire syllabus, textbook samples etc. how can your charter submit the course without a textbook

 

Just out of curiosity , how do you fulfill A-G requirements without following specifics ?

 

I mean more power to you as I hate A-G and think it's ridiculous and controlling. But I'm curious. :)

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I guess I can't understand that, when a school submits their course for A-G approval they have to submit very detailed paperwork including the name of the textbook, the entire syllabus, textbook samples etc. how can your charter submit the course without a textbook

 

Just out of curiosity , how do you fulfill A-G requirements without following specifics ?

 

I mean more power to you as I hate A-G and think it's ridiculous and controlling. But I'm curious. :)

There is a specific syllabus that is submitted for each course with a selection of textbooks and materials the parents can choose from. This is a particularly flexible charter which does indeed, have A-g approval for its courses. It is legit. They don't have honors or AP courses, that are A-g approved however. Edited by amsunshine
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Not for A-G- for A-G they will have very specific requirements!

 

What is A-G?    (Sorry, I'm not as familiar with California homeschooling...but since there's a chance we might move back there eventually I'm interested to know). 

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Golden cho-

 

Not for AG high school,

 

If you want to stay with a charter for high school and you want to do A-G NONE of your materials (regardless of who pays for them) can be Christian because you have to follow their exact approved textbooks and syllabus, and none of them are Christian.

 

 

 

 I'm trying to wrap my head around how that's possible.  I mean, I can see how they could say that you have to use their approved textbooks and syllabus...  but wouldn't you be able to supplement with your own materials?   Two of my kids attend public school (not through a charter or anything like that...but get on the bus and go)...but after they get out of school, I can teach them whatever I want...and I do.   That's pretty basic free speech covered under our constitution, combined with basic parental rights/authority.   No way signing up for a charter takes away your right to do that. 

 

I mean, I could see where it would be harder, because you couldn't neglect the approved curriculum to replace it with something else...but I don't see how anyone would have the power to tell you not to teach something you wanted to teach your kids. 

Edited by goldenecho
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If you want to be able to apply to the UC system, you must meet the a-g requirements or you have to go the route of testing out of requirements using AP or SAT subject tests or using CC courses which are also noted in their course catalog as satisfying a-g requirements.

 

http://www.ucop.edu/agguide/a-g-requirements/

 

 

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I have high schoolers enrolled in a California charter school who are doing UC approved A-G requirements and I do not have to use a specific textbook.

 

I was told that I had my choice of textbook, but it had to be something listed on the state-approved textbook list. And that even though Singapore Discovering Math was Common Core aligned, it was not at that time on the state-approved textbook list for Algebra 1. Algebra 1 was considered a high school level course subject to UC a-g even if my student was enrolled in middle school. We also would be required to pay out of the stipend to have a teacher certified in high school math to "oversee" the subject and that teacher would be the one to decide assignments.

 

I went round and round with the admin and eventually decided to pull her out. The inflexibility over UC a-g wasn't the only issue but it was a biggie.

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There is a specific syllabus that is submitted for each course with a selection of textbooks and materials the parents can choose from. This is a particularly flexible charter which does indeed, have A-g approval for its courses. It is legit. They don't have honors or AP courses, that are A-g approved however.

 

 

Ah, I see.  But you have to choose from a selection that THEY choose (and have submitted to UC)- this is what we are trying to explain.  In elementary, charter school parents never have to choose from any specifics, they just have to get the job done and show samples.  So, for high school A-G, even though there is some flexibility (you can choose between a Holt and a Prentice Hall) you don't get to use any text you want.  You don't get to use a Christian text.  You don't get to use any online academy unless its on their list or approved.  And you have to meet once per month and you have to keep certain paperwork and records.  

 

And that is what we are getting at.  That's OK, if that's what you want to do, but that is not flexibility.  

 

Now, all that said, to meet A-G requirements as a private homeschooler, if you want to fulfill A-G using the class route, you EITHER have to use A-G classes online (which also limits you) OR you have to use SAT Subject and AP classes.  But you could take AP classes through a Christian source, such as The Potter's School.  In fact, you could fulfill 90% of your classes through Christian sources if you wanted as long as you took, and passed, the AP classes.  There is NOT unlimited flexibility as a private either, but certainly a lot more than with a charter. :)

 

Or, you could use Testing by Admission...

 

Or you could forego worrying about A-G altogether and plan on private or Out of State...

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 I'm trying to wrap my head around how that's possible.  I mean, I can see how they could say that you have to use their approved textbooks and syllabus...  but wouldn't you be able to supplement with your own materials?   Two of my kids attend public school (not through a charter or anything like that...but get on the bus and go)...but after they get out of school, I can teach them whatever I want...and I do.   That's pretty basic free speech covered under our constitution, combined with basic parental rights/authority.   No way signing up for a charter takes away your right to do that. 

 

I mean, I could see where it would be harder, because you couldn't neglect the approved curriculum to replace it with something else...but I don't see how anyone would have the power to tell you not to teach something you wanted to teach your kids. 

 

You can supplement however you want. 

 

But if your kid is already doing 9 hours a day of intense high school level schoolwork I doubt they want to read a BJU textbook on the side :)  But of course, you can share your Christian worldview and read supplementary BIble stuff and books.  But whatever you use to teach the course, whatever you actually show that you've worked on, all has to be from their approved list.

 

Also, technically, when you sign the paperwork from the charter, you SIGN that you are NOT going to teach any religious instruction during the 180 days x so many hours of instruction.  People can interpret that how they want.  My charter friends say, they consider themselves off the clock for five minutes while they talk about faith, or Jesus, and then back on the clock when that stops.  They point out that they go way way above and beyond the required hours of educational instruction (which IMO looking at my own life is true), so even if they spent time during every subject talking about Christ, they'd still end up with the required number of hours NOT talking about Christ.  

 

And no, Public Schools no longer have a "right" according to our modern court rulings to talk about faith at all, unless it's a very general "overview of the faiths" class such as in high school or in history class it's mentioned.  That's it.  If you take public funds, you are agreeing to 180 days of so many hours of secular instruction.  

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You can supplement however you want. 

 

But if your kid is already doing 9 hours a day of intense high school level schoolwork I doubt they want to read a BJU textbook on the side :)  But of course, you can share your Christian worldview and read supplementary BIble stuff and books.  But whatever you use to teach the course, whatever you actually show that you've worked on, all has to be from their approved list.

 

Also, technically, when you sign the paperwork from the charter, you SIGN that you are NOT going to teach any religious instruction during the 180 days x so many hours of instruction.  People can interpret that how they want.  My charter friends say, they consider themselves off the clock for five minutes while they talk about faith, or Jesus, and then back on the clock when that stops.  They point out that they go way way above and beyond the required hours of educational instruction (which IMO looking at my own life is true), so even if they spent time during every subject talking about Christ, they'd still end up with the required number of hours NOT talking about Christ.  

 

And no, Public Schools no longer have a "right" according to our modern court rulings to talk about faith at all, unless it's a very general "overview of the faiths" class such as in high school or in history class it's mentioned.  That's it.  If you take public funds, you are agreeing to 180 days of so many hours of secular instruction.  

 

The "shazam" method of religious instruction -- secular, shazam faith-based, shazam secular - all it takes is the magic word. LOL

 

It's instruction in my home by me as an instructor. So it's my direction and choice. That said, I wouldn't use christian materials in a public charter for high school. I would have my kid do bible or worldview stuff separately before/after school studies. As I said, we've done that because of needing a buffer between mother/daughter, but we did not choose to do A-G in high school both because of the kid's needs and because of the way the A-G part of it was implemented (badly, not integrated with the regular classes). JMHO

 

OTOH, we're with a christian PSP for my last child's high school and they have *extra* requirements -- 2 full years of Bible -- which eats up significant elective space. I'm trying to figure out how to do that without cutting into other electives or overloading my child, who WANTS to be in the PSP. YMMV.

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Ah, I see.  But you have to choose from a selection that THEY choose (and have submitted to UC)- this is what we are trying to explain.  In elementary, charter school parents never have to choose from any specifics, they just have to get the job done and show samples.  So, for high school A-G, even though there is some flexibility (you can choose between a Holt and a Prentice Hall) you don't get to use any text you want.  You don't get to use a Christian text.  You don't get to use any online academy unless its on their list or approved.  And you have to meet once per month and you have to keep certain paperwork and records.  

 

And that is what we are getting at.  That's OK, if that's what you want to do, but that is not flexibility.  

 

Now, all that said, to meet A-G requirements as a private homeschooler, if you want to fulfill A-G using the class route, you EITHER have to use A-G classes online (which also limits you) OR you have to use SAT Subject and AP classes.  But you could take AP classes through a Christian source, such as The Potter's School.  In fact, you could fulfill 90% of your classes through Christian sources if you wanted as long as you took, and passed, the AP classes.  There is NOT unlimited flexibility as a private either, but certainly a lot more than with a charter. :)

 

Or, you could use Testing by Admission...

 

Or you could forego worrying about A-G altogether and plan on private or Out of State...

 

That really depends on your viewpoint, I suppose.  If one is bound and determined to use all BJU  or some other religious materials for homeschool -- that is not going to fly with a public charter.  But to me, that would be the student's family being inflexible, not the school.  The particular charter school I was talking about has such a wide range of materials to choose from (including multiple things I see mentioned on these boards on a daily basis) it would be nearly impossible for anyone not to find something that worked for them, as MamaKelly indicated upthread.  Also, there is nothing wrong with supplementation of existing curriculum as long as your main texts and materials are approved.  No one at a public charter homeschool makes anyone give up his/her personal worldviews or beliefs. 

 

Also, no one is forcing anyone to choose a public charter homeschool, in the same way no one forces anyone to choose a public secular school as opposed to a private religious school.  It's all personal preference (aside from financial restraints, of course).  If one wants to homeschool using exclusively religious materials and nothing else, that's a perfectly legitimate choice (although an inflexible one).  There are definitely ways to do that, just not in a public charter school.

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Ah, I see. But you have to choose from a selection that THEY choose (and have submitted to UC)- this is what we are trying to explain. In elementary, charter school parents never have to choose from any specifics, they just have to get the job done and show samples. So, for high school A-G, even though there is some flexibility (you can choose between a Holt and a Prentice Hall) you don't get to use any text you want. You don't get to use a Christian text. You don't get to use any online academy unless its on their list or approved. And you have to meet once per month and you have to keep certain paperwork and records.

 

And that is what we are getting at. That's OK, if that's what you want to do, but that is not flexibility.

 

Now, all that said, to meet A-G requirements as a private homeschooler, if you want to fulfill A-G using the class route, you EITHER have to use A-G classes online (which also limits you) OR you have to use SAT Subject and AP classes. But you could take AP classes through a Christian source, such as The Potter's School. In fact, you could fulfill 90% of your classes through Christian sources if you wanted as long as you took, and passed, the AP classes. There is NOT unlimited flexibility as a private either, but certainly a lot more than with a charter. :)

 

Or, you could use Testing by Admission...

 

Or you could forego worrying about A-G altogether and plan on private or Out of State...

This is a great plan for an academically strong child who doesn't mind testing and can pull the scores. But for a less academically oriented kid or a child with test anxiety, AP/SAT subject exam might not be an answer. If you can't pull at the minimum a 3 on an AP exam, you can't satisfy A through G. I think (but I am not sure) that even CSU system is asking for A through G.

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And then there's the EFC, it might be good to look into that before even bothering with A-G.

 

I just found out our EFC and we could never take out that much in private loans. We may have to abandon any UC plans completely...

 

Another thing to consider ...sigh

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What about enrolling a high schooler in a public charter school but using the free dual enrollment program at a JC or online AP classes for the a-g requirements? Wouldn't you then get the benefits of the charter funds without having to jump through all their a-g requirements?

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What about enrolling a high schooler in a public charter school but using the free dual enrollment program at a JC or online AP classes for the a-g requirements? Wouldn't you then get the benefits of the charter funds without having to jump through all their a-g requirements?

The apparent problem with that is the classes won't be religion based. But that's exactly what many California charters do.

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I've worked at enough California high schools to know that there may be a wee bit of misinformation on this thread. You probably want to set up an appointment to see the counselor or administrator of your charter school to see how that particular charter school makes sure their students are meeting the A-G requirements. They may allow you to write your own course description, they may not. They may allow Christian materials if you prove they meet the same standards as their courses, they may not. You won't find out on this board; you have to ask the school itself.

 

Also a nice thing about the UC system is that they arrange contracts with students through junior colleges. I know a lot of students who graduated high school, enrolled in JC, set up a contract with UC Davis or UC Berkely or one of the many CSUs in California, hit their grade and course goals and two years later went to the UC they handpicked without jumping through the hoops California high school students have to in order to go to the same school. It's a lot less stress too. It's worth talking to your local JC counselor too.

 

I use a California charter school and every year I fill out forms to get approval for the alternate curriculum that I buy with my own funds. I just have to show that they meet the same academic standards. The law does not prohibit California homeschoolers from using Christian curriculum, we just can't use tax money to buy it. I can even turn in a work sample from a Christian curriculum...even if it quotes a Bible verse. Not all charters would accept that. Some schools prefer to hold up the separation of church and state and some hold up our right to freedom of religion. 

 

ETA: I guess I should mention that my oldest is in 6th grade and I don't plan to use our charter for high school mainly because I don't like the online classes that they require students to enroll in. I will probably go independent at that point and I don't care about A-G. I've been researching Master's programs for myself and its cheaper to pay out of state tuition for an online program than to pay the tuition for a state university in California while I am living in California. It's ridiculous.

Edited by freelylearned
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I've worked at enough California high schools to know that there may be a wee bit of misinformation on this thread. You probably want to set up an appointment to see the counselor or administrator of your charter school to see how that particular charter school makes sure their students are meeting the A-G requirements. They may allow you to write your own course description, they may not. They may allow Christian materials if you prove they meet the same standards as their courses, they may not. You won't find out on this board; you have to ask the school itself.

 

Also a nice thing about the UC system is that they arrange contracts with students through junior colleges. I know a lot of students who graduated high school, enrolled in JC, set up a contract with UC Davis or UC Berkely or one of the many CSUs in California, hit their grade and course goals and two years later went to the UC they handpicked without jumping through the hoops California high school students have to in order to go to the same school. It's a lot less stress too. It's worth talking to your local JC counselor too.

 

I use a California charter school and every year I fill out forms to get approval for the alternate curriculum that I buy with my own funds. I just have to show that they meet the same academic standards. The law does not prohibit California homeschoolers from using Christian curriculum, we just can't use tax money to buy it. I can even turn in a work sample from a Christian curriculum...even if it quotes a Bible verse. Not all charters would accept that. Some schools prefer to hold up the separation of church and state and some hold up our right to freedom of religion. 

 

ETA: I guess I should mention that my oldest is in 6th grade and I don't plan to use our charter for high school mainly because I don't like the online classes that they require students to enroll in. I will probably go independent at that point and I don't care about A-G. I've been researching Master's programs for myself and its cheaper to pay out of state tuition for an online program than to pay the tuition for a state university in California while I am living in California. It's ridiculous.

 

I agree with asking the school directly. I will tell you that I have never had a charter (we've been in 4 over the years) offer me forms to have alternative curriculum materials approved. And I have never had them consider a home-written syllabus and mom-selected text as meeting A-G requirements. Definitely something to ask about!!

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The apparent problem with that is the classes won't be religion based. But that's exactly what many California charters do.

amsunshine, you are completely attacking  straw man.

 

Neither myself, (whose several bffs use charters) nor Crimson Wife (who used a charter k-8), nor Ellie, nor RoadRunner (by the way who uses a charter) are saying that the lack of flexibility is purely because we think anyone wants to use 100% religious texts.  And I don't know why you're being so defensive. All of my posts have been fair, showing both the many positives and some negatives of using charters for high school.  Ellie bowed out, Crimson shared her experience about the negatives in a brief and non offensive post.

 

So, no the answer is not that people are afraid they can't use 100% religous texts.

 

The answer is to why someone may NOT want to use a Charter for high school (especialy for A-G) iss...

 

1.  LESS flexibility in charter vs private (both have limits if you're doing A-G)

2.  MORE paperwork

 

The answer why they MIGHT want to use a charter is:

1.  The money

2.  As annoying as the requirements might be, if you can match them, you should be able to graduate A-g approved. 

 

Also, as to the actual question about using Dual Enrollment, where I live the colleges are so impacted no one can get DE classes except in very high level math courses, and very unsuaul courses (ie Japanese) You can't get your lower level Science, zero English, no communications, even PE is impacted and sometimes even art! 

 

So that's why some people might not do that, but it is a great option one should definitely consider. 

Edited by Calming Tea
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And paperwork requirements for high school are significant. For example, for K-12, once a month I jot down all the topics we covered per subject (takes me 15 minutes) and I print one sample per subject, which takes maybe another 10 minutes (lab reports for science, essays for English, rip a grammar excercises for foreign language...). It's effortless. Just once a month. Our educational specialist comes and I hand this to her, sign a paper and then we eat chocolates and chat about education.

Now if I were going to do this for high school, our particular charter would require us to keep a log on a daily basis of all the work completed and input into some sort of online reporting program. It would require scheduling time with teachers on a weekly basis. To me, a through g or not, this seems excessive. I am simply not going to do this. Luckily I think we can manage without them financially. If I had no choice, I would consider that as my job in order to earn whatever they give us as allotment per kid. So it's not just a matter of religious/non religious materials, but also other requirements which all have to be dealt with because high school is so official in a way. If I didn't have faith in my kid to pull off in time good scores on SATs and APs, I might have considered staying with the charter just so it provides a cover.

and religious texts are also not all made equal. Maybe some texts have religious teaching on every page. I don't know. But take Novare science texts. They are scientifically sound and have occasional religious references (they published secular versions by removing few paragraphs), which I really don't see as a problem. Now if you are teaching young earth in a biology class, that is a different thing. So, I guess what I am trying to say, details matter. Speak with your charter and think abour your particular situation and what is in the best interest of your child.

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amsunshine, you are completely attacking  straw man.

 

Neither myself, (whose several bffs use charters) nor Crimson Wife (who used a charter k-8), nor Ellie, nor RoadRunner (by the way who uses a charter) are saying that the lack of flexibility is purely because we think anyone wants to use 100% religious texts.  And I don't know why you're being so defensive. All of my posts have been fair, showing both the many positives and some negatives of using charters for high school.  Ellie bowed out, Crimson shared her experience about the negatives in a brief and non offensive post.

 

So, no the answer is not that people are afraid they can't use 100% religous texts.

 

The answer is to why someone may NOT want to use a Charter for high school (especialy for A-G) iss...

 

1.  LESS flexibility in charter vs private (both have limits if you're doing A-G)

2.  MORE paperwork

 

The answer why they MIGHT want to use a charter is:

1.  The money

2.  As annoying as the requirements might be, if you can match them, you should be able to graduate A-g approved. 

 

Also, as to the actual question about using Dual Enrollment, where I live the colleges are so impacted no one can get DE classes except in very high level math courses, and very unsuaul courses (ie Japanese) You can't get your lower level Science, zero English, no communications, even PE is impacted and sometimes even art! 

 

So that's why some people might not do that, but it is a great option one should definitely consider. 

 

Calming Tea, I truly did not have any intent to attack anything and am not defensive.  If my words seemed so, I apologize.  I did interpret your statement to the effect that the inability to use religious materials was inflexible in a public charter to be inaccurate, however.  It also appeared as if you were trying to say that the restriction on the use of religious materials to satisfy a-g requirements was onerous.  I'm happy to agree to disagree in a civil manner and that's generally what I try to do.  No offense intended.

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Religion had nothing to do with the problems I encountered from the charter regarding UC a-g because the textbook series I wanted to use was completely secular (Singapore Discovering Math). It wasn't like I wanted to use Horizons or BJU or CLE or another Christian publisher. The inflexibilities were:

 

-the charter had a list of state-approved algebra 1 textbooks that did not include Singapore DM.

 

-the admin wanted to take a portion of the stipend to pay a teacher with a high school math credential to "oversee" but without increasing the stipend to the level that high school students receive because my DD was in middle school at the time.

 

-the teacher would be the one to give assignments and set the pace of the course, not me. So if my DD needed more or less practice with a given topic, she'd be S.O.L. because I would not have the flexibility to adjust the assignments & pacing accordingly.

 

If I had really loved the charter otherwise, I might've sucked it up and played by their rules. But I had additional issues with them so I decided that the money wasn't worth the hoops.

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Religion had nothing to do with the problems I encountered from the charter regarding UC a-g because the textbook series I wanted to use was completely secular (Singapore Discovering Math). It wasn't like I wanted to use Horizons or BJU or CLE or another Christian publisher. The inflexibilities were:

 

-the charter had a list of state-approved algebra 1 textbooks that did not include Singapore DM.

 

-the admin wanted to take a portion of the stipend to pay a teacher with a high school math credential to "oversee" but without increasing the stipend to the level that high school students receive because my DD was in middle school at the time.

 

-the teacher would be the one to give assignments and set the pace of the course, not me. So if my DD needed more or less practice with a given topic, she'd be S.O.L. because I would not have the flexibility to adjust the assignments & pacing accordingly.

 

If I had really loved the charter otherwise, I might've sucked it up and played by their rules. But I had additional issues with them so I decided that the money wasn't worth the hoops.

 

I can totally understand your experience because I've read what you've posted and  it is totally different from our experience.  We were able to use Singapore through Discovering Maths in 7th grade, approximately, and transition to Saxon in 8th through our charter.  I was able to set the pace of assignments and the course myself, without interference from our supervising instructor.  She merely cheered us on.  

 

So, I appreciate that some charters may not be particularly flexible.  Ours, however, was -- and we loved it.  We have since switched to a different hybrid charter simply because our old charter did not offer enough advanced selections for our girls -- and I didn't want to have them to be subjected to more testing for advanced work than was necessary to satisfy a-g requirements.  I also did not want them to be attending CC in their initial high school years.

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OTOH, we're with a christian PSP for my last child's high school and they have *extra* requirements -- 2 full years of Bible -- which eats up significant elective space. I'm trying to figure out how to do that without cutting into other electives or overloading my child, who WANTS to be in the PSP. YMMV.

 

Couldn't you find another PSP that doesn't have those requirements? I owned/administered a PSP for 16 years, and then passed it on to friends who did it for another four or five years, and we did not have requirements like that. I thought they were onerous and unnecessary (which is why I started my PSP, to be the alternative to the many others which were requiring more than what the law required).

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Also a nice thing about the UC system is that they arrange contracts with students through junior colleges. I know a lot of students who graduated high school, enrolled in JC, set up a contract with UC Davis or UC Berkely or one of the many CSUs in California, hit their grade and course goals and two years later went to the UC they handpicked without jumping through the hoops California high school students have to in order to go to the same school. It's a lot less stress too. It's worth talking to your local JC counselor too.

 

This is actually not completely accurate. You can do this with the less impacted UCs. The exceptions are UC Berkeley, UC LA and now UC San Diego (in the last year or two).   

 

For anyone that want to learn more about this, just look at this page. http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/guarantee/

Edited by calbear
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This is actually not completely accurate. You can do this with the less impacted UCs. The exceptions are UC Berkeley, UC LA and now UC San Diego (in the last year or two).

 

For anyone that want to learn more about this, just look at this page. http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/guarantee/

It's not true at all anymore in fact- it's no longer a "contract" or even priority enrollment it's just early decision- I spoke with two UCs who confirmed that the "guaranteed transfer" is not guaranteed at all and is merely an early decision.

 

Both UCs I called explained the CC apps are looked at with the pile of early decision and then many are turned down. If you want to go to a UC you have to get very high grades and also show some other good work,internships or volunteering in your field

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