Am I the only one who is so flaky about grammar?

[KeriJ]

I won't admit how many grammar and writing programs I have purchased the past couple of years. And the strange thing is, language arts is one area I feel strong in. But it's for all the same reasons that get tossed around on the board: lots of kids, want efficiency and independence, SWB vs. CM, etc.

 

My kids are starting to think I am weird for not sticking with something, and dh is becoming less amused. 😊

 

Some of you need to come out of the woodwork and tell me I'm not alone.

Edited January 17, 2017 by KeriJ

[Hypatia.]

You're not alone, I've bounced around a lot with language arts also. FLL, WWE, Growing with Grammar, Winning with Writing, Junior Analytical Grammar, IEW, Easy Grammar, several Spectrum and Evan Moor e-books, I know I'm forgetting several. Right now Hake grammar (not including the writing) is what is working and getting done for my older two. IEW needs to get done, but I'm not quite consistently there yet.

 

I knew I bounced around with math a lot, didn't realize until I was typing out my LA list that I've been pretty flaky there too. Now I need to find something that works and consistently gets done for history. 

[mama25angels]

Me, me, me! We've tried a lot of grammar programs as well and haven't been able to stick with one yet.

[Peaceseeker]

I just recently realised how much money I have spent on formal grammar programs that remain in mint condition. I seem to have a fascination with buying grammar programs that I do not use. If I can ever bear to part with my homeschool collection (i.e. hoarding problem) some lucky kid is really going to understand the ins and outs of grammar. Now my own kids? Hmmm....

[8filltheheart]

I never found a grammar or writing program for younger kids that I liked, so I just taught/teach my kids without one.

[madteaparty]

Flaky only in the sense that I don't use one at all.

[journey00]

LOL!!! I was hanging out in Mardel's today checking out guess what.....GRAMMAR & LANGUAGE ARTS PROGRAMS!!!  What a timely thread for me.  Let's see...I own IEW-A, IEW-C, WWE 2 & 3, Fix It Grammar, several Hartcourt & Spectrum Grammar & Language Arts workbooks, Easy Grammar 5 & 6, Language of God Books C-E, lots of Mad Libs.  I am positive that I'm forgetting something.   I change language arts all. the. time. and I'm still not happy.  I'm seriously considering the online Grammaropolis!! You are not alone. :lol:

Edited January 17, 2017 by journey00

[Mrs Twain]

You people haven't bought R&S English yet. Why not? Think about how much money you could have saved if you just started there.

[KeriJ]

You people haven't bought R&S English yet. Why not? Think about how much money you could have saved if you just started there.

😊 R&S is what I always fall back on.

[mama25angels]

You people haven't bought R&S English yet. Why not? Think about how much money you could have saved if you just started there.

I've been thinking about using R&S, I know I can start my 3rd grader in the 3rd grade book but where I start the 8th grader, who hates grammar with a passion?

[Mrs Twain]

I've been thinking about using R&S, I know I can start my 3rd grader in the 3rd grade book but where I start the 8th grader, who hates grammar with a passion?

Start your 8th grader in the 5th or 6th grade book.

[Guest]

You people haven't bought R&S English yet. Why not? Think about how much money you could have saved if you just started there.

 

 

I have bought it....multiple times  :tongue_smilie:  :tongue_smilie:  :tongue_smilie:

 

We are doing FixIt, I've committed myself to sticking it out for awhile. But, I also added in FLL 4.  :tongue_smilie: I'm really hoping ALL comes out here this fall!

[Another Lynn]

Keri, we are sisters!  But I already knew that!   :)   I've used two different grammar books with my 11yo alone this year and after break, just didn't have the heart to jump back into the 2nd one.  We are currently parsing, analyzing, and diagramming one sentence per day (in addition to doing GSWL - so tiny bit of grammar there).  For writing, one of the grammar books included writing assignments which we dabbled in, but now we're going back and forth between reports and written narration as the mood strikes me.    

[8filltheheart]

You people haven't bought R&S English yet. Why not? Think about how much money you could have saved if you just started there.

Not the approach I want.

[HomeAgain]

I bought several grammar programs with my oldest.  With the youngest, I've streamlined significantly.  Our plan is starting with Grammarland/Montessori symbols (we have cartoon-ish characters that stand up and rep the parts of speech).  That's followed by The First Whole Book Of Diagrams, then Editor In Chief. 

 

Anything on top of that is gravy. 

[KeriJ]

Keri, we are sisters! But I already knew that! :) I've used two different grammar books with my 11yo alone this year and after break, just didn't have the heart to jump back into the 2nd one. We are currently parsing, analyzing, and diagramming one sentence per day (in addition to doing GSWL - so tiny bit of grammar there). For writing, one of the grammar books included writing assignments which we dabbled in, but now we're going back and forth between reports and written narration as the mood strikes me.

(I had actually debated at first whether to send you a message or just post it here 😊. But I would never call you flaky😊) Edited January 17, 2017 by KeriJ

[Mrs Twain]

Just curious why you don't like your grammar programs. Is it because they don't work, or is it because you don't like teaching them? Is it something like the Circe thread where you are looking for the beauty or the delight in learning and can't find it in your English book?

 

I tell my kids that grammar is 15-20 minutes of torture per day. By the end of 8th grade R&S English, they will be prepared for writing and foreign language, and they will know more grammar than almost anyone they will meet for the rest of their lives. Look at grammar like flossing.

[KeriJ]

Just curious why you don't like your grammar programs. Is it because they don't work, or is it because you don't like teaching them? Is it something like the Circe thread where you are looking for the beauty or the delight in learning and can't find it in your English book?

 

I tell my kids that grammar is 15-20 minutes of torture per day. By the end of 8th grade R&S English, they will be prepared for writing and foreign language, and they will know more grammar than almost anyone they will meet for the rest of their lives. Look at grammar like flossing.

I'm guessing perfectionism and ADD.😊 I just finished 2 different R&S lessons a minute ago and apologized for ever cheating on them.😉 I need to accept the fact that R&S works for us and quit looking.

 

Grammar flossing! 😃 I like that!

[mama25angels]

Start your 8th grader in the 5th or 6th grade book.

Ok

[8filltheheart]

Just curious why you don't like your grammar programs. Is it because they don't work, or is it because you don't like teaching them? Is it something like the Circe thread where you are looking for the beauty or the delight in learning and can't find it in your English book?

 

I tell my kids that grammar is 15-20 minutes of torture per day. By the end of 8th grade R&S English, they will be prepared for writing and foreign language, and they will know more grammar than almost anyone they will meet for the rest of their lives. Look at grammar like flossing.

I don't like most grammar programs bc of the lack of context and connection. Most programs don't incorporate the grammar concepts into more complex sentences, so grammar is learned as patterns vs. actual grammar mastery. Students aren't taught to implement the concepts as tools for strengthening their writing. The value of knowing a noun and a verb compared to understanding the value of the noun and verbs chosen to incorporate in your writing is using grammar skills at different levels. Both can be taught simultaneously but very rarely are.

 

I don't teach my kids grammar in isolation. Grammar is taught within the context of writing and for improving their writing. Fwiw, our grammar studies are nothing liking flossing teeth. ;) We enjoy grammar bc we discuss it and play with it. My kids also know it. Not sure I would say they know it more than almost anyone they'd meet the rest of their lives. My Dd understands grammar through multiple languages, and I am pretty sure she would say there is always more to understand bc she sees language and words as beautiful. But my kids definitely know grammar well enough to write correctly and to follow punctuation conventions. And we have a lot of interesting conversations and strengthen their composition skills along the way.

[hollyhock]

I've gone through a few. Started with R&S, then tried CTGE, bought Easy Grammar but never used it, also own PLL/ILL, but I think we have finally settled on LLATL for middle grades. I think what I've learned is that I really like R&S up until about 5th grade, and to do it a year behind, then switch to LLATL for 6th-8th. I think. :)

[KeriJ]

I've gone through a few. Started with R&S, then tried CTGE, bought Easy Grammar but never used it, also own PLL/ILL, but I think we have finally settled on LLATL for middle grades. I think what I've learned is that I really like R&S up until about 5th grade, and to do it a year behind, then switch to LLATL for 6th-8th. I think. :)

😊

[Mama2Many4]

I bounce around not only in Grammar but every subject.  I think that's what happens when working with workbooks and specific curriculum naturally. 

 

We want a buffet and not a sit down dinner. 

 

I have tried just about everything out there and my oldest two have suffered from it sadly.  My should be eighth grader who was once ahead, is now a sixth grader doing fourth grade math.  Same goes for my second oldest.  I have since learned to stick with what works and not try something else just because it's "new" or I want to try it.

[Another Lynn]

(I had actually debated at first whether to send you a message or just post it here 😊. But I would never call you flaky😊)

 

:001_wub: 

 

 

(But flaky is my middle name, lol.)

Edited January 18, 2017 by Another Lynn

[Another Lynn]

Just curious why you don't like your grammar programs. Is it because they don't work, or is it because you don't like teaching them? Is it something like the Circe thread where you are looking for the beauty or the delight in learning and can't find it in your English book?

 

I tell my kids that grammar is 15-20 minutes of torture per day. By the end of 8th grade R&S English, they will be prepared for writing and foreign language, and they will know more grammar than almost anyone they will meet for the rest of their lives. Look at grammar like flossing.

 

I know you weren't asking me, but here's what I think.  I think I get tired of most grammar programs because they are too much about "trees" and not enough about the "forest."  So, after a while it feels like we're not really reaping what I was hoping for because I'm not seeing the fruit I wanted.  II start out thinking the kids need all that detailed info, so I try to choose a program that does that efficiently, but I'm not sure it sticks because they don't make broader connections with it.   

[Mrs Twain]

I use my grammar program to teach and practice detailed concepts in isolation. Then we do application of the grammar when we are editing compositions as part of our writing program.

 

Students need to know the vocabulary before they can learn to apply it. When we are editing compositions, I can talk about where commas go because of where the clauses are, verb agreement, and why something would be in nominative case instead of objective case. These are the types of things kids can understand if they have diligently worked though a detailed grammar program. We need to learn about the trees before we can talk about the forest.

 

The other area where I have especially seen my son apply his grammar knowledge is in German class. German grammar is difficult, but my son knows English grammar so well that German grammar seems quite simple and easy to him.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

For those who like the "trees" materials but are still waiting for the forest, copywork and dictation can be used to bridge the gap. Point out the concepts you are working on, in the child's sentences. Do this within the grammar exercises, but here are a few more methods that are easy (and quick) to add to your day:

 

1. Seek material within the child's literature reading that includes grammatical concepts being covered. Write the sentences on the chalkboard and label them, or ask the child to help you find the object of the preposition or the simple predicate or whatever. Classic children's literature will have everything you need for any kind of grammar exercise at your child's level!

 

2. Provide the student with a sentence that is lacking a grammatical element, help him think of what's missing, and ask him to supply it. At the most basic level, work with fragments and have him provide the missing subject or predicate. Later, ask him to improve upon a complete sentence by adding paired adjectives, or an adverb describing an adjective.

 

3. Play a more advanced, homemade version of Mad Libs. On the board, write blank lines representing words in a sentence. Ask for a simple subject, a verb, an adjective for the subject, a preposition after the verb, an object for the preposition, an adverb for the verb...go back and add conjunctions, interjections, change the simple subject from a common noun to a proper noun, update the object of the preposition...just play. This can be very silly yet highly instructive!

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I use my grammar program to teach and practice detailed concepts in isolation. Then we do application of the grammar when we are editing compositions as part of our writing program.

 

Students need to know the vocabulary before they can learn to apply it. When we are editing compositions, I can talk about where commas go because of where the clauses are, verb agreement, and why something would be in nominative case instead of objective case. These are the types of things kids can understand if they have diligently worked though a detailed grammar program. We need to learn about the trees before we can talk about the forest.

Approaching grammar via a different methodology does not mean that students are lost in the forest. Kids can enter the forest and learn to identify one tree at time using correct terminology.

[regentrude]

We've never done any grammar program. We discussed grammar in the context of writing, and both kids have developed very strong writing skills without formal grammar study.

[Bluegoat]

I find its often in the areas I feel I am strong in that I am dissatisfied with many programs.