Article on Tony Campolo's son, Bart, in the NY Times (on becoming a secular chaplain)

[umsami]

Saw this today and thought it was really interesting.  I remember loving Tony's books in the 90s.   May also be comforting to those who struggle with having children who leave the faith.  

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/magazine/the-evangelical-scion-who-stopped-believing.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

[6packofun]

I read this a couple days ago and thought it was very insightful!  Very insightful to see that atheists are not just "people who don't believe" but many have a very specific set of beliefs that they would like others to join in believing.  And Campolo can't help but be a preacher of a different kind!  lol  The header photo makes that obvious. (And I wish I knew what was so hilarious...the one guy cracking up!  LOL)

[PrincessMommy]

I saw that the other day too and thought it was very good.  I fascinated by his personal journey as well as enjoyed learning about the different types of secular humanists.

 

However, I was slightly miffed that, once again, the media trots takes a swipe at Christians during one of our most sacred seasons.  Granted, it was tame in comparison to others I've seen (NPR did an article one year questioning the validity of historical Jesus - on Western Palm Sunday). 

 

I often wonder if people of other faiths have to put up with such articles around their sacred holidays?

[DawnM]

Ok, I have read the entire thing now.

 

I had no idea.

 

You know what makes me mad?  THIS:

 

Campolo has fallen out of touch with many of his old evangelical comrades. You’d think the apostasy of such a major figure would be big news to other Christians, but whether from horror or out of sympathy for Campolo’s father, evangelicals seem to have barely noticed. In one of the few articles about Campolo’s change of heart, the Tennessee pastor Ed Stetzer, who now teaches at Wheaton College in Illinois, seemed to insinuate that Campolo’s parents may have been to blame, at least a little. “As parents, we need to work to ensure our children have a relationship with Jesus, not just a desire to be part of a loving community doing good,†Stetzer wrote, rather cattily, in Christianity Today.

Photo

 

 

[Frances]

Saw this today and thought it was really interesting. I remember loving Tony's books in the 90s. May also be comforting to those who struggle with having children who leave the faith.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/magazine/the-evangelical-scion-who-stopped-believing.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

I read the article earlier and found it fascinating. I certainly wish there would have been a chaplain like that at my college. Due to my fairly conservative views on drinking and sex, I ended up joining the main Christian organizations on campus, but never felt like I really fit in with the evangelicals. First, because I was Catholic and some didn't even consider me a Christian. But primarily because there was absolutely no emphasis or time spent on social justice and helping others. It was all about their personal relationship with Christ. I did find some of the connection I was seeking in service clubs, but it would have been great to have another venue.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Passing this along to my son, who is in school to become an interfaith chaplain. Thanks, umsami!

[idnib]

I'm not sure how the article is a swipe at Christians ?

 

I missed it as well.

[fraidycat]

I saw that the other day too and thought it was very good. I fascinated by his personal journey as well as enjoyed learning about the different types of secular humanists.

 

However, I was slightly miffed that, once again, the media trots takes a swipe at Christians during one of our most sacred seasons. Granted, it was tame in comparison to others I've seen (NPR did an article one year questioning the validity of historical Jesus - on Western Palm Sunday).

 

I often wonder if people of other faiths have to put up with such articles around their sacred holidays?

To be fair, as a non-religious person, I'm almost completely oblivious to any and all sacred seasons/religious holidays for ALL religions. Chances are, I probably inadvertently offend any number of people in my obliviousness by not acknowledging their special event and/or saying the wrong thing at the wrong time in some way.

[kewb]

I often wonder if people of other faiths have to put up with such articles around their sacred holidays?

All the time. I tend to think it is more because of ignorance that it is a significant time than malicious intent. I know myself so an article against it doesn't shake my foundation.

 

If it it on purpose, it still has no impact on me. Other then making a mental note about the person for future reference.

[FaithManor]

I saw that the other day too and thought it was very good.  I fascinated by his personal journey as well as enjoyed learning about the different types of secular humanists.

 

However, I was slightly miffed that, once again, the media trots takes a swipe at Christians during one of our most sacred seasons.  Granted, it was tame in comparison to others I've seen (NPR did an article one year questioning the validity of historical Jesus - on Western Palm Sunday). 

 

I often wonder if people of other faiths have to put up with such articles around their sacred holidays?

Yes actually they do. Mostly, Christians do not notice this. The Christian faith has had an unnatural place of privilege in this culture, a protected place, until the last decade as our culture becomes increasingly more secular and global. Now the faith is incurring what other faiths have always dealt with.

 

As for the secular chaplaincy idea, I think it is great. People need counsel and support. Hospitals, jails, military....lots of trauma, lots of need, and not the environment in which one can easily go seek out a therapist. I have a boy who is very well versed in religion/philosophy/worldview, and incredibly tolerant and compassionate. I think this would be a great job for him, but his interests are in writing and journalism, not personal counseling.

[Laurie4b]

To be fair, as a non-religious person, I'm almost completely oblivious to any and all sacred seasons/religious holidays for ALL religions. Chances are, I probably inadvertently offend any number of people in my obliviousness by not acknowledging their special event and/or saying the wrong thing at the wrong time in some way.

 

Understandable if it's an individual person. However the articles predictably show up in the news media primarily around Easter, but also Christmas. It's not obliviousness; it's an article related to the holiday--but opposing the belief of those celebrating the holiday. 

[Laurie4b]

 

Ok, I have read the entire thing now.

 

I had no idea.

 

You know what makes me mad?  THIS:

 

Campolo has fallen out of touch with many of his old evangelical comrades. You’d think the apostasy of such a major figure would be big news to other Christians, but whether from horror or out of sympathy for Campolo’s father, evangelicals seem to have barely noticed. In one of the few articles about Campolo’s change of heart, the Tennessee pastor Ed Stetzer, who now teaches at Wheaton College in Illinois, seemed to insinuate that Campolo’s parents may have been to blame, at least a little. “As parents, we need to work to ensure our children have a relationship with Jesus, not just a desire to be part of a loving community doing good,†Stetzer wrote, rather cattily, in Christianity Today.

Photo

 

I read the actual article in Christianity Today, and I didn't think it was catty,  but soul-searching and sympathetic. 

[Mrs_JWM]

I think an article about Jesus around Palm Sunday is perfectly appropriate. If that historical figure is being celebrated by some, there are also others who would enjoy a candid, thoughtful examination of the facts surrounding that person.

 

And, as FaithManor points out, Christians in our country enjoy such a privileged and protected place that many are a bit oblivious to the slights to other religions. They also often fail to realize how theistically-centered America seems to those of us who don't believe as they simultaneously declare that someone has declared a war on Christmas. Well, no one told us non-believers about that war! Or maybe we missed the memo while we were going about our business...[emoji13]

 

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[FaithManor]

I think an article about Jesus around Palm Sunday is perfectly appropriate. If that historical figure is being celebrated by some, there are also others who would enjoy a candid, thoughtful examination of the facts surrounding that person.

 

And, as FaithManor points out, Christians in our country enjoy such a privileged and protected place that many are a bit oblivious to the slights to other religions. They also often fail to realize how theistically-centered America seems to those of us who don't believe as they simultaneously declare that someone has declared a war on Christmas. Well, no one told us non-believers about that war! Or maybe we missed the memo while we were going about our business...[emoji13]

 

Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk

This.

 

And the issue isn't that we suddenly have a huge glot of population that are suddenly "unbelievers" or belong to a different religion. We've always had quite a bit of diversity, being the melting pot of nations kind of thing. It's that in the past it was unacceptable for those that didn't believe to speak up. It could mean losing a job, loss of a relationship, bullying at school, neighborhood problems, etc. When my dad was in the Air Force, he said a lot of guys that were not Christians went to church or chapel anyway and observed Christian holidays if the commander was a Christian in order to not be discriminated against. There was a lot of that kind of thing going on "in the good ole days".

 

Now people feel more free to be themselves, to not make appearances, to follow their own conscience in faith matters, and due to more anti-discrimination laws are able to do so without reprisal and stress. There are many christians that do not like this change and would prefer that people of other faiths or no faith keep it under wraps like they used to do.

 

Change can be disconcerting for some, and I think we are seeing that. The perceived war on Christmas being one symptom. In reality, there is no war. I do think certain elements within the evangelical community - leaders of mega churches, televangelists, etc. who make a lot of money keeping donations coming in - have a vested interest in making people believe that such a thing exists. 

[Bluegoat]

It's interesting.  It raises some interesting questions - chaplains traditionally and IME very effectiivly help people of all faiths and backgrounds - I'm not sure I see a atheist being much more helpful than a non-atheist would be, but then its good to have a mix of backgrounds in that role. 

 

It does raise some questions for me about the difference between a chaplain and a counselor, especially in terms of the role in the organization.

 

It would be interesting to see "atheist" become a category for this kind of role, as many atheists don't seem to see it that way, but as more of a non-belief.  I wonder if some might not appreciate that direction, if it was taken farther.

 

As far as articles at holidays - I think its reasonably to have them on topics related to religion near big religious holidays - they get people to start thinking about such things.  I have seen some occasionally, usually more of an editorial nature, that seemed to me to be in poor taste or bad faith.  That reflects on the author, IMO, I think it's bad manners.  I disagree that is a matter of privilege, its true whatever faith is being discussed, and whether other people are sympathetic or not.