MJN Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 (edited) Let's say that your mother, age 77, has been smoking for 64 years. The lung doctor told her a year ago to stop smoking, that her COPD and emphysema had gotten worse and that she would need to go on oxygen in a year if she didn't quit smoking. Her breathing has gotten noticeably worse and she's going to the doctor this week. You can hear her wheezing over the phone. You spent over $100 of your own money last fall to buy Nicoderm patches for her. She decided to continue smoking after being on the patches. Your mother lives in an assisted living and she is bumming cigarettes off the employees. You also just found out that her hairdresser, who you called personally to tell her that your mother's doctor had told her to quit smoking, was funding the cigarettes for your mother. You wanted to alert the hairdresser so she'd be informed because you figured your mother would ask her hairdresser to buy her some cigarettes. You didn't want the hairdresser to be in an uncomfortable position. Your mother doesn't have the funds to keep smoking unless you buy the cigarettes for her. Now, you've gotten two calls from the director of the assisted living and the head nurse telling you that she's bumming cigarettes from the staff and they've seen her smoking the butts off the smokers on the "smoking porch". The staff knows that your mother has COPD and you have found out that they gave her two cartons of cigarettes from one of the deceased residents' room when they were cleaning it. They have told me that they will not continue to give her cigarettes. (Not sure I believe that, but that's what they said.) Please note that the mother has lied repeatedly to the dd that she is smoking and the staff and hairdresser certainly haven't let on that they are buying them for her. Now, you've got to make a decision - do you supply your mother with cigarettes which are only going to make her more sick, oxygen dependent, and that means you'll be taking her to the doctor more often and she'll probably be in the hospital more frequently OR do you tell your mother that you aren't going to buy the cigarettes for her and she'll continue to smoke the butts. Plus with the economy like it is, you really can't afford to spend $60 on cigarettes. There's guilty feelings for either decision. Here you have a person with an obvious addiction, but who is sick enough they don't need to smoke. Either way she's going to die from COPD. So, do you add to shortening her life or not? She really doesn't care if she lives anymore. She feels like she just exists. She lives in chronic pain 24/7 despite medicine so she feels it would be a relief to die. Trust me if you've not enter this phase of life, having elderly parents is so much harder than raising children. Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts. I'll be interested to see what the hive has to say. Molly Edited to add: Please know that I don't want to control her in any way. I've suspected she was smoking for a whole year and have given her opportunities to tell me if she was smoking or not. She wouldn't admit it. I decided that she's an adult and if she chooses to smoke people's butts and bum cigarettes, then that's her business. I had told her I wouldn't buy cigarettes for her after the doctor told us both she should quit, so she's known not to ask me. Now she's wanting my sister to buy them and send them through the mail to her. My sister's like me, feels guilty either way. I feel guilty knowing she's addicted and yet I'm not buying them for her. It feels really cruel either way. Edited October 18, 2008 by MJN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 It isn't the daughter's (or anyone else's) responsibility to support the mother's habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelda Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 No, I wouldn't give her cigarettes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacie Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 It's isn't the daughter's responsibility to buy cigarettes for the mother. If she wants to not listen to the doctor, that is her right. Any nurse that would give cigarettes to someone who is (medically) not supposed to have them should be reported, it's wrong. The hairdresser can do whatever she wants with her money, if that's how she chooses to spend it that is up to her. I don't know what else to tell you... I would feel more guilty about helping my mother to hurt herself by smoking than I would about her being angry that you won't buy any. I know it can be hard. Addictions are difficult, and dealing with parents that can't care for themselves puts you in a 'no win' situation. Sorry. - Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camibami Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 She's 74. IMO, if she wants them but is in a place where she cannot buy them (does she not drive?) I would not buy them *for* her, but I'd stop trying to get others to not buy them.Is it sad? Yes. But its her life, and she is old and in ill health. If she quits now, she isn't going to get "better" is she? Does COPD go away? Add to that she's not interested in quitting- she will never, no matter what you do, quit until she is ready. I would stop trying to get the hair lady, aides, etc to stop buying her cigarrettes, and just give it up to God. You don't have to buy them yourself, but its her choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camibami Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 :001_huh: I don't know why the thumbs down is in my post- I didn't notice it was checked! I don't mean thumbs down, whatever that might mean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 As a former smoker of 20 yrs I sympathize with your mom. As the daughter of a smoker, I sympathize with you. As much as you want to make your mom stop, only she can make that decision, and it sounds like she's decided not to. I don't think you have any responsibility to buy them for her. A little compassion mixed with tough love is probably a good starting point. I'm sorry she's put you in this position. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Trust me, having elderly parents is so much harder than raising children. Yes, it certainly is, especially if you are there really helping the parent rather than "phoning it in" (and that's not to put down kids who can't live parents - at all - it's just that the daily grind is ..... hard). I don't know what to say. About the only thing my father and I can enjoy doing together anymore is smoking a cigaratte. He only smokes a couple a day, and I only smoke a couple a week (and only because I can get him to go outside with me to do it, though I *really* enjoy my two cigarettes a week!). But your situation is entirely different. I think you can, in good conscience, go either way. Your mother is addicted. You aren't going to solve that for her. At the same time, obviously the smoking is a real problem for her. You have no good options here, but I also think you can choose what you feel best doing, and just pray that something good will come of it. I'm so sorry. It's really really hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 She's 74. IMO, if she wants them but is in a place where she cannot buy them (does she not drive?) I would not buy them *for* her, but I'd stop trying to get others to not buy them.Is it sad? Yes. But its her life, and she is old and in ill health. If she quits now, she isn't going to get "better" is she? Does COPD go away? Add to that she's not interested in quitting- she will never, no matter what you do, quit until she is ready. I would stop trying to get the hair lady, aides, etc to stop buying her cigarrettes, and just give it up to God. You don't have to buy them yourself, but its her choice. :iagree: As an ex-smoker and the spouse of of soon-to-be ex-smoker I can sympathize. It's hard enough to quit when you have the desire to do so. I don't think I'd support her habit, but I wouldn't stop her from being around them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
percytruffle Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Let's say that your mother, age 77, has been smoking for 64 years. The lung doctor told her a year ago to stop smoking, that her COPD and emphysema had gotten worse and that she would need to go on oxygen in a year if she didn't quit smoking. Her breathing has gotten noticeably worse and she's going to the doctor this week. You can hear her wheezing over the phone. You spent over $100 of your own money last fall to buy Nicoderm patches for her. She decided to continue smoking after being on the patches. Your mother lives in an assisted living and she is bumming cigarettes off the employees. You also just found out that her hairdresser, who you called personally to tell her that your mother's doctor had told her to quit smoking, was funding the cigarettes for your mother. You wanted to alert the hairdresser so she'd be informed because you figured your mother would ask her hairdresser to buy her some cigarettes. You didn't want the hairdresser to be in an uncomfortable position. Your mother doesn't have the funds to keep smoking unless you buy the cigarettes for her. Now, you've gotten two calls from the director of the assisted living and the head nurse telling you that she's bumming cigarettes from the staff and they've seen her smoking the butts off the smokers on the "smoking porch". The staff knows that your mother has COPD and you have found out that they gave her two cartons of cigarettes from one of the deceased residents' room when they were cleaning it. They have told me that they will not continue to give her cigarettes. (Not sure I believe that, but that's what they said.) Please note that the mother has lied repeatedly to the dd that she is smoking and the staff and hairdresser certainly haven't let on that they are buying them for her. Now, you've got to make a decision - do you supply your mother with cigarettes which are only going to make her more sick, oxygen dependent, and that means you'll be taking her to the doctor more often and she'll probably be in the hospital more frequently OR do you tell your mother that you aren't going to buy the cigarettes for her and she'll continue to smoke the butts. Plus with the economy like it is, you really can't afford to spend $60 on cigarettes. There's guilty feelings for either decision. Here you have a person with an obvious addiction, but who is sick enough they don't need to smoke. Either way she's going to die from COPD. So, do you add to shortening her life or not? She really doesn't care if she lives anymore. She feels like she just exists. She lives in chronic pain 24/7 despite medicine so she feels it would be a relief to die. Trust me, having elderly parents is so much harder than raising children. Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts. I'll be interested to see what the hive has to say. Molly (((Molly))) I feel your pain. I have been there with my own mom. She died from her emphysema one night in her sleep. She was on oxygen for the last two years of her life and would actually take the oxygen out of her nose and smoke. She could have blown the whole apartment complex sky high. Smoking is a stronger addiction than most people realize. After smoking most of her life she just couldn't quit. My dad had recently died and she had lost the will to try. After his funeral, dh, the kids, and I were leaving her apartment to come home (a three hour drive) and she literally begged us to go out and buy her cigarettes before we left. It was not a pretty sight to see your elderly mom act like an addict needing a fix. Dh did it. The circumstances were not right to make a stand then and there. She had been trying to quit, but that was the end of the battle. If she had been able to kick the habit she may have been around for several more years. Unfortunately, her addiction was too strong for her to overcome at 72, living alone (she had tried living with my sister, but it did not work out), and without her husband for support. If I were in your situation, I would not buy her the cigarettes, but I would consider looking the other way when others did. It is a very tough and heart-wrenching situation to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I would not buy the cigarettes for her but it is her choice to smoke. She's 77 and probably won't change. I'm sorry you have to deal with this situation. Even though it is her choice it is obviously hurting you. Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 My Dad died of colon cancer at 53. He was a long-time smoker. His joke when they gave him less than six months to live was that he was finally going to quit smoking later that year. In spite of my Dad's terminal illness, many relatives tried to get him to quit smoking since it could have been a contributing factor to the rapid spread of his cancer. I now realize how silly it was to try to talk a dying person, an adult, and an addict to quit at quite literally the most stressful time of his life. If my Dad were alive today, I'd buy him the cigarettes. I'd smoke with him if he wanted me to and I'd laugh at his great stories. We'd drink a lot too. (And I neither drink nor smoke in my real life.) Go easy on your Mom. It doesn't sound like she has much left. If a cigarette brings her comfort, don't begrudge it to her. That's my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I would make sure she had an up to date will, power of attorney for bills and medical power of attorney and any of that type of paperwork. My MIL died two weeks ago from lung cancer. She had less than two weeks between the time it was discovered and she died. It was an awful painful death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Now, you've got to make a decision - do you supply your mother with cigarettes which are only going to make her more sick, oxygen dependent, and that means you'll be taking her to the doctor more often and she'll probably be in the hospital more frequently OR do you tell your mother that you aren't going to buy the cigarettes for her and she'll continue to smoke the butts. I'd buy her the cigarettes. She's old, she's sick, and she wants them. My mother (84) was asked to go for more investigations into her high blood pressure. She didn't want to go. I talked to her about the good things that the investigations might bring, but then I left the decision with her. Not taking BP medications might shorten her life, but it's her choice. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I'd buy her the cigarettes. She's old, she's sick, and she wants them. :iagree: It sounds like close to the last pleasure in life, and would you want your daughter leaving you to pick the *filthy* butts of your last pleasure off the ground when you are old and feeble and broke? I love caring for the elderly, and my greatest pleasure is helping them do what they'd like to, but no longer have the capability of doing it without help. Even if I don't agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 If the COPD is going to kill her, and if stopping smoking is not going to extend her life to any great degree, I'd buy them and just let her be happy....and I don't say this lightly. My grandmother died of emphysema, and it was horrific. Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCoppock Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 She's 74. IMO, if she wants them but is in a place where she cannot buy them (does she not drive?) I would not buy them *for* her, but I'd stop trying to get others to not buy them.Is it sad? Yes. But its her life, and she is old and in ill health. If she quits now, she isn't going to get "better" is she? Does COPD go away? Add to that she's not interested in quitting- she will never, no matter what you do, quit until she is ready. I would stop trying to get the hair lady, aides, etc to stop buying her cigarrettes, and just give it up to God. You don't have to buy them yourself, but its her choice. I agree 100% with what you said here. I personally would not go out and purchase them for her but I wouldn't try and stop her either. I'm sure she has been educated multiple times by her Drs. reguarding the dangers of her smoking and she has decided for herself what her actions will be. She is still an adult capable for making her own decisions I wouldn't interfere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 If the COPD is going to kill her, and if stopping smoking is not going to extend her life to any great degree, I'd buy them and just let her be happy....and I don't say this lightly. My grandmother died of emphysema, and it was horrific. Ria And I don't say it lightly, either. It's just horrible. I have seen my in-laws through unbelievable lung surgeries, and seen my grandfather in law whisper through a box because they had to operate on him for cancer from chewing tobacco, and I have another relative who sat around and sucked from an oxygen tank for the last several years of his life. That slow strangulation is just inconceivably horrible, and painful, too. As is recovering from a cut that goes around the bottom of your chest from front to back, for about 10 inches. But, goodness, she's old and addicted, and she really needs this for any kind of quality of life emotionally. I'm sorry, so sorry, that this is so, but it is. She needs these, and they are legal, and she can't get them for herself, and the alternative is so completely lacking in human dignity (pulling butts from the ashtrays?) that I can't possibly recommend it. I can see why her hairdresser brings them to her--it's just simple human compassion. Yes, it's bad for her, but if she really can't get better then IMV this should be her decision to make. I am so so so sorry that you're facing this. So so so sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommytobees Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Well, I don't think I'm going to read the other posts... as I suspect my view is going to be the opposite. Asking your 77 year old mother, who has been smoking almost 4/5's of her life isn't going to take $100 of patches to "cure". It is NOT just the addiction to fix, it is the mental attitude AND the habit of doing (vs. the habit of the addiction). Sit down and ask this: do YOU want to be treated in this same way by your daughter when you are 77? I *really* do say this in the heart of kindness and love. You and I both KNOW that smoking is bad. It is a disgusting and nasty habit. How do you want the end of your mother's life to go? Yes, she'll live longer if she STOPS smoking. But if she doesn't want to stop smoking, are you considering her feelings and perspective by chastising her? Your mother is smoking the butts in the smoking room. Consider that she is ashamed of her NEED for this, but her own daughter isn't supporting her... she is shaming her. This is a LEGAL addiction. This is an addiction that this generation has dealt with in a way that OUR generation does NOT understand. Further, most of our generation, smokers and non-smokers alike have trained our children to be ingrained that smoking is NASTY. GO and have a heart-to-heart with your mom. Tell her that you LOVE her and NEED her to be alive as long as she can. If LOVE can't change your mother's habit, then be gracious and help her live the rest of her life in peace and love. I would, however, ask your mother 2 things: 1) please do not lie to your granddaughter, tell her the truth; and 2) do you think smoking is good? I suspect she is going to say 'no', and if she does, then ask her to tell your daughter that too. Praying for wisdom for you. Kris, whose 89 year old grandmother has smoked since the age of 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibbyl Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Let's say that your mother, age 77, has been smoking for 64 years. The lung doctor told her a year ago to stop smoking, that her COPD and emphysema had gotten worse and that she would need to go on oxygen in a year if she didn't quit smoking. Her breathing has gotten noticeably worse and she's going to the doctor this week. You can hear her wheezing over the phone. You spent over $100 of your own money last fall to buy Nicoderm patches for her. She decided to continue smoking after being on the patches. Your mother lives in an assisted living and she is bumming cigarettes off the employees. You also just found out that her hairdresser, who you called personally to tell her that your mother's doctor had told her to quit smoking, was funding the cigarettes for your mother. You wanted to alert the hairdresser so she'd be informed because you figured your mother would ask her hairdresser to buy her some cigarettes. You didn't want the hairdresser to be in an uncomfortable position. Your mother doesn't have the funds to keep smoking unless you buy the cigarettes for her. Now, you've gotten two calls from the director of the assisted living and the head nurse telling you that she's bumming cigarettes from the staff and they've seen her smoking the butts off the smokers on the "smoking porch". The staff knows that your mother has COPD and you have found out that they gave her two cartons of cigarettes from one of the deceased residents' room when they were cleaning it. They have told me that they will not continue to give her cigarettes. (Not sure I believe that, but that's what they said.) Please note that the mother has lied repeatedly to the dd that she is smoking and the staff and hairdresser certainly haven't let on that they are buying them for her. Now, you've got to make a decision - do you supply your mother with cigarettes which are only going to make her more sick, oxygen dependent, and that means you'll be taking her to the doctor more often and she'll probably be in the hospital more frequently OR do you tell your mother that you aren't going to buy the cigarettes for her and she'll continue to smoke the butts. Plus with the economy like it is, you really can't afford to spend $60 on cigarettes. There's guilty feelings for either decision. Here you have a person with an obvious addiction, but who is sick enough they don't need to smoke. Either way she's going to die from COPD. So, do you add to shortening her life or not? She really doesn't care if she lives anymore. She feels like she just exists. She lives in chronic pain 24/7 despite medicine so she feels it would be a relief to die. Trust me if you've not enter this phase of life, having elderly parents is so much harder than raising children. Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts. I'll be interested to see what the hive has to say. Molly Edited to add: Please know that I don't want to control her in any way. I've suspected she was smoking for a whole year and have given her opportunities to tell me if she was smoking or not. She wouldn't admit it. I decided that she's an adult and if she chooses to smoke people's butts and bum cigarettes, then that's her business. I had told her I wouldn't buy cigarettes for her after the doctor told us both she should quit, so she's known not to ask me. Now she's wanting my sister to buy them and send them through the mail to her. My sister's like me, feels guilty either way. I feel guilty knowing she's addicted and yet I'm not buying them for her. It feels really cruel either way. If I could afford it without sacrificing my own family's needs, I would buy the cigarettes for her. But only if I could do it without being resentful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apiphobic Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 But, goodness, she's old and addicted, and she really needs this for any kind of quality of life emotionally. I'm sorry, so sorry, that this is so, but it is. She needs these, and they are legal, and she can't get them for herself, and the alternative is so completely lacking in human dignity (pulling butts from the ashtrays?) that I can't possibly recommend it. I can see why her hairdresser brings them to her--it's just simple human compassion. Yes, it's bad for her, but if she really can't get better then IMV this should be her decision to make. I am so so so sorry that you're facing this. So so so sorry. :iagree: completely absolutely unequivocally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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