Armour vs. Synthroid (or NDT vs. levothyroxine)?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I've been worried about my thyroid function for a couple of years now, but my numbers were always borderline, so my GP brushed it off and wouldn't even think about addressing it. Now my TSH is finally in the official high range (GYN would only test TSH and T4), so I made an appt with an endocrinologist (for this and a couple of other things). She'll do a re-test, but assuming she's willing to treat, and assuming I have a say in the matter, should I ask her for NDT or start with Synthroid and see what happens? I keep reading how much better people find Armour/NDT to be, but it seems like most doctors really like to use Synthroid. Is it worth any kind of fight at this point?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[J-rap]

All I've ever used is levothryoxine, and I've never had a problem.  I always feel great!  I've been on it for probably 18 years now.

 

[HSmomof2]

I take a combination of levothyroxine and cytomel (t3), and feel fine as long as my dose is correct. I generally think a good doctor that prescribes a correct dose is more important than ndt vs. levo.

[gardenmom5]

I've been worried about my thyroid function for a couple of years now, but my numbers were always borderline, so my GP brushed it off and wouldn't even think about addressing it. Now my TSH is finally in the official high range (GYN would only test TSH and T4), so I made an appt with an endocrinologist (for this and a couple of other things). She'll do a re-test, but assuming she's willing to treat, and assuming I have a say in the matter, should I ask her for NDT or start with Synthroid and see what happens? I keep reading how much better people find Armour/NDT to be, but it seems like most doctors really like to use Synthroid. Is it worth any kind of fight at this point?

 

Thanks!

 

for  starters - the tests  you want are FREE t3 and FREE t4.  https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c0/db/51/c0db51507f017d4cf54ba7e406a447cc.jpg (there are also 'total' t3 and t4. they do NOT tell you anything useful.)

tsh is - thyroid stimulating hormone.  it is produced by the pituitary gland to tell the thyroid to make hormone.  a healthy tsh is <1.5.   mine is currently 0.01 and my free t3 and free t4 are in lovely ranges for the first time and I've finally stopped having hypo symptoms.  (and a leg injury that wouldn't heal and I had no idea was related to low thyroid - suddenly felt loads better.)

 

levy/synthroid is hard on your adrenals, and they will often have to pick up the slack.  it is synthetic t4 only.  the active thyroid hormone is t3.  synthroid expects you to convert from t4 ->  to t3.  depending  upon why it is low, that can be very problematic.  there are actually five thyroid hormones plus calcitonin.

 

here's the stopthethyroidmadness page that explains all the different thyroid rx.

I'm on WP - which has fewer fillers.

they changed the formula on armour a few years back, and a lot of patients complained and switched to something else.

 

eta: all I had ever been given was levo. by three different drs.  I would complain of hypo symptoms, but my tsh was 4, so I would be refused becasue "tsh isn't high."  (4 is high.)  this went on for years as my symptoms got worse.  I'm still angry about it.  

Edited November 8, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Spryte]

I switched from Levo to Armour maybe a year ago, give or take. I didn't notice much difference right away. I do feel better now than I did then - but I have made a lot of changes that are impacting how I feel.

[Guest]

I've been pretty happy on armour but my t3 is still way too low, so I may need more tweaking. We shall see.

[Pawz4me]

I've been taking levothyroxine for about 18 months and do fine on it. I did a lot of research on NDT and visited an integrative medicine doctor who prescribes it. He scared me a bit, as he seemed more than willing to hand it out like candy. Overall I've found absolutely no reason to switch. But if I ever have issues that levothyroxine (and cytomel, if needed) don't correct then I'd probably try it as a last resort. 

[gingersmom]

25 years on synthroid

[Ellie]

I've been worried about my thyroid function for a couple of years now, but my numbers were always borderline, so my GP brushed it off and wouldn't even think about addressing it. Now my TSH is finally in the official high range (GYN would only test TSH and T4), so I made an appt with an endocrinologist (for this and a couple of other things). She'll do a re-test, but assuming she's willing to treat, and assuming I have a say in the matter, should I ask her for NDT or start with Synthroid and see what happens? I keep reading how much better people find Armour/NDT to be, but it seems like most doctors really like to use Synthroid. Is it worth any kind of fight at this point?

 

Thanks!

 

I was undermedicated on Synthroid for 20 years.  More than one doctor listened to me say that I didn't feel *right* and replied that my TSH (only TSH) was normal, and so suck it up. Thank goodness I finally saw a doctor who tested everything (Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3) and who was willing to prescribe NDT. And then who was willing to raise my dosage until I was free of symptoms (for me, that's almost five grains). YES, YES, YES, it's worth it to (1) fight for a complete thyroid panel, (2) insist on NDT, and (3) insist on being dosed until you feel well.

 

Don't waste your time with Synthroid.  If this doctor won't prescribe NDT, find another one who will.

 

These are the labs you want. If your doctor won't order them all, then at least ask for the thyroid basic.

 

 

 

These are the levels you want. Your lab might have different ranges; you want Free T3 to be in the upper fourth; Free T4 in the upper half; TSH in the lower fourth..

 

 

And this is how your medication should go:

 

[gardenmom5]

I was undermedicated on Synthroid for 20 years.  More than one doctor listened to me say that I didn't feel *right* and replied that my TSH (only TSH) was normal, and so suck it up. Thank goodness I finally saw a doctor who tested everything (Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3) and who was willing to prescribe NDT. And then who was willing to raise my dosage until I was free of symptoms (for me, that's almost five grains). YES, YES, YES, it's worth it to (1) fight for a complete thyroid panel, (2) insist on NDT, and (3) insist on being dosed until you feel well.

 

Don't waste your time with Synthroid.  If this doctor won't prescribe NDT, find another one who will.

 

These are the labs you want. If your doctor won't order them all, then at least ask for the thyroid basic.

 

 

 

 

I think the 24 hour cortisol should be in the basic thyroid panel. they're often comorbid.

 

I'm working to get  over my anger about just how under treated I was. . . . I would complain about hypo symptoms - dr didn't care. but she insisted on running my labs every three months.  money maker for her.  I added in an otc desiccated thyroid (pretty weak actually) - and I felt so much better. that was one of the reasons I finally said 'enough' with her and found a new dr.

 

I was surprised by my leg after i started ndt.  and I had just started! (I raised very slowly).  I think I was on one-grain, might have been 1 1/2. (my dose is three - I feel human.)  but I could feel it just sweep down my leg - and I was just laying down, so it's not like I was doing anything. and it changed.  I''m grateful - but also angry that this is why is wasn't healing and my dr ignored me every time I brought up hypo symptoms (she required I come in every three months just for thyroid, and she'd come up with other tests too so it was more than that.) for two freaking years!

 

it was quite the revelation to learn the adrenals directly affect five muscle groups that stabilize the pelvis.   I was going to a chiro, and a PT (different ones for TWO YEARS). . with no progress until I started ndt and adrenals  - wham.  that fast.

 

I did have a hard time finding what I could do to support the adrenals -  I'm allergic to one of the most common ingredients which wiped out more than half of what is available to try in one fell swoop.   I see low adrenal symptoms going back to when I was a teenager. so I always thought they were 'normal'.  no one ever caught it.  that's why it's so important to be familiar with the list of symptoms.

and I have a child who is borderline  hypo - but severely low adrenal.

 

the one benefit I've found with treating on ndt and adrenal - I'm not eating to try and keep up energy or stay awake (which I did even on synthroid).  now, I automatically eat less.

 

eta: my (current) dr almost never does reverse t3, but I wanted it so she said fine.   she can count on one hand the number of patients she has that have it.  she was right - I didn't need it, but it's nice to know my rt3 is so good. (that is on a stable dose of 3 grains.)

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Soror]

Synthroid might work for some. Especially if you don't have any other issues. Unfortunately, a lot of times thyroid disease isn't caught until there are other problems which make Synthroid supplementation less than optimal. Personally, I started with NDT(naturethroid) but raised too slowly(partly my own fears and not being aggressive enough requesting labs and visits). So, although I felt better it took a while to feel good and I've had some ups and downs(thankfully those have leveled out a lot more). I've since moved to T3(generic Cytomel) only and that seems to be good for me (I have conversion issues and tend to pool and/or get high RT3- which is why I felt great going off my meds 1.5 yrs ago- going off cleared it out- but the problem was i didn't add it back in soon enough once it cleared leading to a horrible crash). Time will tell but I feel the most normal on T3 only since my thyroid crapped out. My adrenals seem to be in a much better place and my hormones are improved. I'm not entirely perfect(how many of us are I guess) but physically, mentally and emotionally i'm doing pretty darn good.

Edited November 8, 2016 by soror

[umsami]

Following because I have Hashimoto's and take levothyroxine....

 

 

:lurk5:

 

I will say that my endocrinologist told me that there is a difference between brand Synthroid and generic levothyroxine.  He says it's one of the few medications he's ever noticed a difference with.  My internist told me that as well on her own, then wa happily surprised when I told her my endocrinologist said the same thing because in theory, there should be no difference.  I need a lot more generic than Brand meds.   He will give me tons of samples when I see him, but my insurance will only pay for the generic. 

Edited November 8, 2016 by umsami

[Tess in the Burbs]

I've used both.  And different stages of life I've needed different.  I started on Synthroid just out of college.  I didn't know anything about it all. I just did as the Dr said.  I never felt great.  Had to up my dosage every 6 months.   I finally had a Dr who offered to switch me to Amour.  I felt way better on it.  But I did notice I had very up days and very down days.  Then the availability was cut off in summer 2010?  I had to go back to Synthroid.  When Armour was more readily available I went back to Armour.  But this time I wasn't having the good feels.  Ever.  Had a new Dr who explained I was taking more and more Armour but no results b/c basically my body wasn't absorbing whatever I needed.  T3 conversion wasn't happening I believe.  He moved me back to Synthroid.  I actually felt better on it.  My numbers all got back to good ranges.  

 

Now i have a new Dr.  Who added in the cytomel b/c I'm still not converting well.  But I had serious heart palpitations.  I got the dosage smaller and smaller but only when I stopped did my heart beat normal again.  However, we did discover something.  I can't do the generic.  My TSH wasn't where it should be on generic.  On Synthroid they were fine.  On generic I was not.  Something to consider.  

 

Anyway, that's my story.  I didn't want to be back on Synthroid.  It's not perfect.  I feel ok for the most part daily.  I don't sleep well but I have other issues and don't blame my thyroid completely.  I had to make changes over the years depending on how I felt.  And I will keep changing when needed so I can feel halfway normal.  I think it's key to get a Dr who listens. 

[gardenmom5]

Following because I have Hashimoto's and take levothyroxine....

 

 

:lurk5:

 

I will say that my endocrinologist told me that there is a difference between brand Synthroid and generic levothyroxine.  He says it's one of the few medications he's ever noticed a difference with.  My internist told me that as well on her own, then wa happily surprised when I told her my endocrinologist said the same thing because in theory, there should be no difference.  I need a lot more generic than Brand meds.   He will give me tons of samples when I see him, but my insurance will only pay for the generic. 

 

about brands and generics . . . 

generics can have up to 20 fillers.  don't underestimate the effect of fillers.

 

I've had both naturthroid and WPthroid. . . . made by the same manufacturer, but nt has more fillers than wp.  and I can tell.  

 

I also take mthf.  the rx is deplin. . . . the best form is made by thorne (and available otc), but they only come in 1mg or 5mg capsules (higher must be rx). and they're pricey.  the rx out of pocket is cheaper.   my ND has a pharmacy that compounds mthf  (they make their own capsules) - and sources it from the same place as thorne.  so, it's basically thorne for less. (costs slightly more than deplin).  I  switched to the compounded . . three days later.  yep, THIS is what it's supposed to feel like.  I'll never take deplin again.