more on adult kids & their decisions

[lllll]

nm

Edited October 5, 2016 by Cathi

[Denisemomof4]

Did you three ever try to discuss this with your no boundary parent?

[Sharon77]

 but in the end, when kids reach their later teen and then adult years, whether they fly well or not depends an awful lot on who they are, not who the parents want them to be.

 

 

This is something that I have thinking about a great deal for a few years. Especially since when my kids were young, I swallowed the homeschooling propaganda hook line and sinker :)

 

Then my kids became teens and I began to see that they are their own person! Their minds and voices began to develop! And it didn't matter they were homeschooled!!

 

Then it begs the question, why does parenting well matter? I'm not talking about being kind to your kids.

 

I'm talking about, if the kids will turn out however they're meant to turn out, why sacrifice so much for them? Send them to school...be a working mom....have your own hobbies away from kids...

 

why does it matter?

[creekland]

Did you three ever try to discuss this with your no boundary parent?

 

In my last 45 minute long phone call with my dad, I bet I got to say all of 10 short sentences (at most, could have been less) - and not all at once.  He'd ask a question and I'd try to respond, but it wasn't long before it was all about him again - or all about the wrongs in the world/others.  The rest was things we should be doing.

 

Honestly?  I tend to opt to play computer games while listening to him.  He's that predictable, so I miss nothing and get less aggravated.

 

Then it begs the question, why does parenting well matter? I'm not talking about being kind to your kids.

 

I'm talking about, if the kids will turn out however they're meant to turn out, why sacrifice so much for them? Send them to school...be a working mom....have your own hobbies away from kids...

 

why does it matter?

 

For me and my house... we sent our kids to school.  I had no thoughts at all about homeschooling until I had worked in our high school long enough.  Then I realized that if they stayed in school they wouldn't get the education they were capable of.  That's the sole reason we opted to homeschool and we pulled ours out at 9th, 7th, and 5th grades respectively.  My youngest later opted to return to ps for high school - and confirmed my suspicion...

 

Once we were homeschooling, we quickly learned we loved the extra time we had with our boys.  We'd often school on Saturdays and take Tuesdays off as "family days" (hubby didn't work that day either).  We'd go hiking or geocaching.  We'd play family games.  We'd camp.  We simply did things together that day and we all loved it.  Otherwise... we could travel when we wanted to and in general, be on our own schedule.  We had a blast.  I still worked part time 2-3 days per week, so I felt I had the best of both worlds with having my own circle and devoting tons of time to my kids.

 

My kids have since grown and gone off to college.  Two of the three have returned to tell us they really appreciated all the time we spent with them - the things we did, the places we went.  They feel they were incredibly lucky and they're very thankful.  (The other isn't as verbal, but tells me he doesn't regret homeschooling.  He shared many of our travel experiences (verbally and in pics) with his now wife when they were going out.)

 

I'm sure my kids would have grown up just fine if they'd gone to school or if they'd have different parents - or if we'd had a different parenting style, but what did we get?  An awesome life - one I wouldn't trade for anything.  I can never get that time back or do those experiences now.  We had a blast!

 

No major regrets here.

[Reefgazer]

Since they are now married, it's rather a permanent situation and I would let them live there in order to contribute to the success of the marriage.  However, it would be for a finite amount of time, and contingent upon them getting their adult act together. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by reefgazer

[gardenmom5]

I know there are parents who are like this (how many complaints does one hear about just on this board alone?), so I suppose my only comment is that my dad's feeling that he should tell me exactly how he feels about both my choices and my sister's choices are the reason he only gets roughly one phone call per month (if that) vs my mom who I talk with at least weekly and often vacation with too.  I see my dad about once per year.

 

It simply gets old after a while - esp when they remind you, "I love you."

 

My mom will discuss things with me when I ask, but hardly ever criticizes even when our preferences/decisions differ (and they do, from faith to financial investments and more).  She's even bailed us out of a major financial issue in our younger married years (definitely our mistake too) and doesn't ever mention it.  She's my idol in awesome parenting.

 

I suspect I won't have any tears when my dad passes on.

my grandmother was a real piece of work - and my mother was unable to stand up to her. I became a broken record with my statement that if grandmother loved us, she wouldn't treat us that way. (everything was about her, and chains attached)  it was an extremely long haul, but my mother did eventually start to come 'round.

 

 

Same here, only it's my mother.  And I have no desire to see her grave. 

 

dh used to joke about a grave dance to the tune of ding-dong the wicked witch is dead. . . . I didn't do it as I was afraid it would hurt my mother.   and by then, I didn't care enough about the old biddy to even go that far.   even my mother said she only felt  relief.

 

Did you three ever try to discuss this with your no boundary parent?

you don't discuss with a no-boundary parent.   everything is about them.  e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g.   if we dare object to how she treated us, we'd get a "oh, you're killing me" melodrama episode. then she'd make grandpa come and demand we apologize to her. (I loved him, but he enabled her.)

 .

 

In my last 45 minute long phone call with my dad, I bet I got to say all of 10 short sentences (at most, could have been less) - and not all at once.  He'd ask a question and I'd try to respond, but it wasn't long before it was all about him again - or all about the wrongs in the world/others.  The rest was things we should be doing.

 

Honestly?  I tend to opt to play computer games while listening to him.  He's that predictable, so I miss nothing and get less aggravated.

 

 

 

 

didn't have computers. . . . 

I'd just pull the phone away from my ear so I didn't have to listen to her.  about every minute or two, i'd put it back just long enough to say "oh," "uh huh", "really?" .  . . .etc.

I finally learned enough she got one 15minute phone call once a week - and I'd talk as long as she was polite.  if she was rude and critical, I'd say good-bye and hang up.  many phone calls were under five minutes.

[lllll]

nm 

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by ~ d9n

[creekland]

I finally learned enough she got one 15minute phone call once a week - and I'd talk as long as she was polite.  if she was rude and critical, I'd say good-bye and hang up.  many phone calls were under five minutes.

 

Listening to my dad doesn't bug me that much.  I put no stock in anything he says.  I know he has mental illnesses.  He'll disagree, of course, but even my youngest mentioned after one of his Psych classes that "we studied the Grandpa chapter today."

 

It bothered me a bit in high school though - and caused me to switch from living with him to living with my mom during my senior year of high school.  He had convinced me my mom was worse than dirt AND I had to give up riding to make this move, so yes, that was traumatic, but I just couldn't stand living with him any longer.  I had a bit of mental relief going away to college and then studying Psych myself.  Understanding what is going on can go a long way for me.

 

So I'll listen - and see him once per year or so - and feel no guilt or aggravation.  The love is not there though, nor am I doing anything for him in his later years now when he needs someone.  He's chased everyone away by feeling the need to have everyone doing things his way or telling them all about their errors.  My dad wouldn't attend my graduations or wedding because I/we were doing things wrong.  He didn't come to his grandson's wedding either and was convinced we'd hear about a child within 9 months. (We didn't.) His choice.

 

Parents need to learn that kids are not little clones of them.  They're their own people and should be allowed to be that way.  Yes, we teach them and guide them through their growing years.  We teach them manners/social skills and share our experiences so they can hopefully learn from them.  But in the end, their lives are theirs.  Their decisions are theirs.  Their lives are theirs.  We can opt to share with them (however that works out) or send them packing.

 

I like sharing with them - my mom, and my kids.  We all have our differences, including faith, finances, hobbies, and things (foods, etc) we like/dislike.  We all accept each other without judgment and enjoy each other's company as often as we can.  It's awesome.

 

I accept my dad as he is, but there's no desire to spend time with him.  I guess if I had to put a description with it, indifferent would be the word. I simply don't care.   As I said before, it gets old.  When he passes on, other than having to clean his place and settle his estate, it will probably be a relief.

[FaithManor]

Indifferent. Good word. I have zero desire to spend time with him and have no feelings at all about his future passing. He has destroyed any bond I might have had. At this time I am Mr. Spock. No emotions.

[Carrie12345]

It is ENTIRELY possible to share feelings and opinions without being a jackass.  I am sorry that some of you had parents who didn't know how to do that.

[Murphy101]

No my kid = not my problem.

 

I don't know what I'd do. It would depend on many factors.

 

I've always said that if my kids are decent, working, contributing to family/society people, I don't care how long they live here. If they are butt nuggets, then I don't care what age they are, we are going to have a problem.

 

I'm less concerned about age, than mooching and being turds.

 

I would not be supporting them beyond living accommodations though. Heck, I have a single 22 yr old still at home and that's all he gets. Want gas for his car? He better have it bc he isn't getting it from me. Same goes for anything else he needs. And he is expected to pay up for communal things too. He currently pays the family cell phone bill and his own vehicle expenses. Still cheaper than the total minimum of bills if he was living on his own, but it's a decent portion of his income too. Adults in this house are expected to contribute to their family and society, in time, finance, and in other ways.

 

The problem I see with these arrangements is they aren't taken serious by the young people bc they know the parents won't enforce follow through. If they don't pay rent - will the parent actually pack their crap and put it on the curb? Turn off their cellphone? And so forth? If not, then I think the parents need to be honest and not make it a requirement.

 

My kids know our expectations, which seriously isn't much compared to what Dh and I dealt with at their ages, and so far the line in the sand dynamic has not been necessary. But dh and I have discussed it being a possibility and are in agreement about how to respond. And if we felt we had to draw that line, we totally would bc we would view it as necessary for their own good and the sake of our other children still at home.

 

In general, our policy on significant others (be they close friends or love interests) is to presume they might become family and love them the same as our kids. There is a running joke in our household that being loved like our own can be construed as a warning. 😉

[TechWife]

First of all, I need to go reread the OP because I don't recall any mentall illness in the dd.

 

As for the rest, if this were the situation, before the couple got married, if they knew they couldn't support themselves, this should have been discussed. To call all the shots and then move into the parwnts home because neither was responsible or capable of doing better, should have had parental input.

 

I work with special needs adults. Yes, they deserve all that other adults do, but if marriage and babies are going to be considered, input from parents and/or guardians is necessary. One adult client living in my home was once proposed to. The parents wouldn't allow the marriage because, and I quote, "Who would want to take that on?" And if you've seen the AMAZING reality show Born This Way about adults with Downs Stndrome, you would see the moms who are unsupportive of marriage and babies because they (moms) know that most of the work of raising the kids would be on them.

 

So yes, they do have rights, but not all parents are willing or capable of making things work for them. If these two are this incapable (lack of direction, lack of employment) of taking care of themselves, how will they responsibly care for their kids? Are the parents supposed to help with raising their grandchildren as well as supply rent free living?

 

First, we don't know that they didn't have parental input. At some point, they had a discussion, unless the husband is living there in secret (highly unlikely). 

 

I've never see the show you are referring to - I don't watch "reality" tv. 

 

Maybe they will not have kids. Maybe they will have kids and have a lot of support from the grandparents. Would it be better for any (as yet nonexistent) kids to go into foster care if the parents can't or won't take care of them? Maybe, we don't know. There is no "supposed to" here though. Things really do look different for each family situation. That's really what I am thinking about - we shouldn't write things off just because people might need help. Would we be having this conversation if the people in question were physically disabled? Would someone begrudge a physically disabled person from raising children, even if it meant they needed grandparent support of some type in order to do so? It's not really the details of this particular situation I'm trying to get at, it's the overall cultural attitude towards helping people with mental illness vs. helping people with physical illness. One seems to be seen as negative or enabling, while the other is more acceptable in our culture. 

[zoobie]

If the parents feel like they're held hostage by the situation, it's not going to end well for anyone. My cousin (classic narcissist) lived with her parents after she got married and before she finished grad school. It was supposed to be a very short-term arrangement because their duplex got broken into 3 times and they were looking for another reasonable yet safe place to live. A month stretched into the rest of the semester. The school year. While she and her (employed!) DH lived in her parents' home, the parents  were expected to provide everything and treat her like royalty. They had all of their meals cooked and rooms cleaned and laundry done. Aunt broke her ankle and couldn't do the cooking, cleaning, etc. and Uncle got downsized, and they asked them to start paying for groceries and helping around the house. The girl went nuts, packed her stuff, and left in a huff. Didn't speak to them for almost a year. The parents tried to repair the relationship, and part of their "agreement" was a chunk of cash. She wanted the money they spent on their other kids (her siblings) on orthodontia that she didn't need and the money that they spent going to visit another child at college because she went to a local school. It was nuts. Then she had a kid. The mom was expected to provide free childcare whenever they wanted it. When she balked, they threatened her to cut off access to the grandchild. Eventually she did have to stop providing care when my uncle wound up in the hospital and needed round-the-clock care himself. They did in fact cut off access to the grandchild. 

 

If there aren't healthy boundaries and they're afraid of implementing healthy boundaries because they'll be cut off, they should go ahead and implement them because it's only going to get more difficult as the behavior gets more entrenched. Healthy relationships withstand healthy boundaries. 

[Murphy101]

That's really what I am thinking about - we shouldn't write things off just because people might need help. Would we be having this conversation if the people in question were physically disabled? Would someone begrudge a physically disabled person from raising children, even if it meant they needed grandparent support of some type in order to do so? It's not really the details of this particular situation I'm trying to get at, it's the overall cultural attitude towards helping people with mental illness vs. helping people with physical illness. One seems to be seen as negative or enabling, while the other is more acceptable in our culture.

You might not write it off, but absolutely many, possibly most, people do. And yes, they do it for physical disabilities as well. All. The. Time. I don't know what utopia you've been enjoying, but that many people, even family, don't want to help and are resentful at society possibly expecting them to do so is not news at all. Even temporary help is often deemed in a begrudging manner. Such as how stupid a woman can be considered if she has a pregnancy after a previous pregnancy was difficult. It's only 9 months, or even just part of the 9 months, but to many people, even needing help for 9 months is deemed selfish and is not exactly met with enthusiasm.

 

ETA: Abstaining from whether I agree with that attitude or not. 🙂

Edited August 15, 2016 by Murphy101