s/o Episcopal Church--how do you make religious decisions?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Doctrine is important to me.  I'm pretty literal and don't like vague or fuzzy.

 

But this is exactly where religion and churches fell apart for me.  As a kid I believed stuff and then just saw all around me (at church and outside of church) that people didn't practice what they preached. 

 

I think I am thinking along the same lines as ananemone.  I know some people go to church for tons of other reasons, but I have no desire to go there for those other reasons.  If what is preached and talked about makes zero sense to me, I see no reason to go there. 

 

I kind of call that "other" stuff the club aspect.  I do believe lots of people go to church to feel a sense that they belong to a group or club and like that.  The fact that the details are sometimes fuzzy doesn't matter.  And I see nothing wrong with that if that is what someone wants or needs. 

[MercyA]

Yes, groups of people that spoke the language and understood the cultural context. 

 

Thank God for translators (and I mean that literally).  ;) 

 

Definitely there are passages in which it's helpful to understand the culture, and those are usually pretty clear from the context. We don't see a lot of people sacrificing meat to idols in the United States, for example. I've also seen people argue that the head covering passage is purely cultural. (As an aside, that makes little sense to me because Paul cites "nature itself" and "the angels" as reasons to cover, neither of which have anything to do with culture.)

 

This might be an overgeneralization, but I usually see the culture card played when people seem to want to avoid doing or accepting something in Scripture. 

 

The vast majority of the New Testament seems to deal with issues that transcend culture: "Love your enemies." "Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ has forgiven you." "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." "There is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." And on and on.

[MercyA]

Doctrine is important to me.  I'm pretty literal and don't like vague or fuzzy.

 

But this is exactly where religion and churches fell apart for me.  As a kid I believed stuff and then just saw all around me (at church and outside of church) that people didn't practice what they preached. 

 

I think I am thinking along the same lines as ananemone.  I know some people go to church for tons of other reasons, but I have no desire to go there for those other reasons.  If what is preached and talked about makes zero sense to me, I see no reason to go there. 

 

I kind of call that "other" stuff the club aspect.  I do believe lots of people go to church to feel a sense that they belong to a group or club and like that.  The fact that the details are sometimes fuzzy doesn't matter.  And I see nothing wrong with that if that is what someone wants or needs. 

 

It's not surprising that God condemns hypocrisy in the strongest of terms.  :(  (And I agree with most of what you said in your post.)

[ktgrok]

Thank God for translators (and I mean that literally).  ;)

 

Definitely there are passages in which it's helpful to understand the culture, and those are usually pretty clear from the context. We don't see a lot of people sacrificing meat to idols in the United States, for example. I've also seen people argue that the head covering passage is purely cultural. (As an aside, that makes little sense to me because Paul cites "nature itself" and "the angels" as reasons to cover, neither of which have anything to do with culture.)

 

This might be an overgeneralization, but I usually see the culture card played when people seem to want to avoid doing or accepting something in Scripture. 

 

The vast majority of the New Testament seems to deal with issues that transcend culture: "Love your enemies." "Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ has forgiven you." "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." "There is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." And on and on.

 

I think it is very very dangerous to think we understand such things easily, when we may be totally off base. For instance, if someone came back 1,000 years from now  would they know that in the 1980s "Bad" meant "good"? Or would they simply read it as face value, the way some advise we read the Bible? SO much goes into understanding even what the words mean, not to mention all the rest. Heck, just trying to understand a song from 20 years ago can be hard, or further back, Shakespeare. Going back so much further, into not just a culture of the past but one of an entirely different part of the world...I find it only plain and clear that we would be misinterpreting much. 

[MercyA]

I think it is very very dangerous to think we understand such things easily, when we may be totally off base. For instance, if someone came back 1,000 years from now  would they know that in the 1980s "Bad" meant "good"? Or would they simply read it as face value, the way some advise we read the Bible? SO much goes into understanding even what the words mean, not to mention all the rest. Heck, just trying to understand a song from 20 years ago can be hard, or further back, Shakespeare. Going back so much further, into not just a culture of the past but one of an entirely different part of the world...I find it only plain and clear that we would be misinterpreting much. 

 

I understand what you're saying, Katie, but I do believe God has been faithful to preserve His Word for us in a form that we are able to understand, given access to it in our language. I also believe His Word was inspired by the Spirit in such a way that it transcends time and is still "living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword."

[Bluegoat]

Thank God for translators (and I mean that literally).  ;)

 

Definitely there are passages in which it's helpful to understand the culture, and those are usually pretty clear from the context. We don't see a lot of people sacrificing meat to idols in the United States, for example. I've also seen people argue that the head covering passage is purely cultural. (As an aside, that makes little sense to me because Paul cites "nature itself" and "the angels" as reasons to cover, neither of which have anything to do with culture.)

 

This might be an overgeneralization, but I usually see the culture card played when people seem to want to avoid doing or accepting something in Scripture. 

 

The vast majority of the New Testament seems to deal with issues that transcend culture: "Love your enemies." "Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ has forgiven you." "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." "There is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." And on and on.

 

I can't say I really agree with this.  My degree is in classics, and I spent a good part of it on patristic studies.  The way people in the ancient world thought about texts, and those texts in particular, and the Church and its relation to the texts, is just alient to many modern people. 

 

I wouldn't say that it really accords with a lot of the way "liberal" Christianity wants to think about Scripture, but it sure isn't the modern evangelical "the NT is pretty straightforward so long as you have a good lexicon" either.

[Kathryn]

I've only skimmed the Episcopal thread, but find it interesting that different people seem to have very different ideas of what one should look for in a church or religion, and how religious decisions (such as joining a church) should be made. If people are up for it I would like to explore these ideas more.

 

I personally belong to a church (LDS) with a strong emphasis on seeking true doctrine and also true authority from God. The idea of looking for a church to fit my needs or desires is foreign to me--if I were to change churches or religions it would be for doctrinal reasons, because I had determined the new church's doctrine to be more correct and its authority more authentic. I've heard similar thoughts from members of Catholic and Orthodox churches.

I haven't read any replies, but I very much identify with what you're saying. When DH and I became Chrisian, we researched denominations and chose the Episcopal Church based on it being the closest in alignment with our beliefs. Three years later, we left for the Orthodox Church because I felt that if anything were "true" Christianity, that was it, whether I agree with certain stances or not. If I'm not Orthodox, I'm not Christian.

[MercyA]

I can't say I really agree with this.  My degree is in classics, and I spent a good part of it on patristic studies.  The way people in the ancient world thought about texts, and those texts in particular, and the Church and its relation to the texts, is just alien to many modern people. 

 

I wouldn't say that it really accords with a lot of the way "liberal" Christianity wants to think about Scripture, but it sure isn't the modern evangelical "the NT is pretty straightforward so long as you have a good lexicon" either.

 

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, Bluegoat, and doing so in your usual kind and measured way. :) However, I do believe God has made His word accessible to all, including the simplest among us. Jesus doesn't ask the impossible when He instructs us to "keep His commandments." He expects that we are able to know and understand them.

[Bluegoat]

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, Bluegoat, and doing so in your usual kind and measured way. :) However, I do believe God has made His word accessible to all, including the simplest among us. Jesus doesn't ask the impossible when He instructs us to "keep His commandments." He expects that we are able to know and understand them.

 

Perhaps, but I would say that he doesn't expect any of us to understand the Scriptures alone, but only within a particular contextual setting and community. 

[ktgrok]

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, Bluegoat, and doing so in your usual kind and measured way. :) However, I do believe God has made His word accessible to all, including the simplest among us. Jesus doesn't ask the impossible when He instructs us to "keep His commandments." He expects that we are able to know and understand them.

 

Or maybe he's made us to be curious enough and smart enough to research and look for more depth. 

[Guest]

Or maybe he's made us to be curious enough and smart enough to research and look for more depth. 

 

What do you mean by "more depth" in this context? 

[MercyA]

Or maybe he's made us to be curious enough and smart enough to research and look for more depth. 

 

Assuming pure motives, the more often people study the Word, the better.  :)

[Guest]

 

These are among the Great Conversations of the millennia, maize!... :001_smile: ... and I think to a great extent, the spiritual path we take is very much primed by where we happen to start, whether we carry on mostly consistently with the circumstances and teachings of our birth / upbringing, or conversely if through some process we take a turn in opposition to our starting point...

 

... and it's also mighty hard to reduce such questions and spiritual journeys to internet-sized sound bytes. But here are a few critical junctures in mine (weighing in as a member of ever-deepening commitment to a minority faith tradition... but I'll stick here to my more Universalist junctures; there are many others specific to Judaism but those ones are less on point to your question of how and more to a different question of what).

 

 

re deed v. creed:

 

 

To start at starting points: Not all individuals start with such an emphasis on True Doctrine; and not all faith traditions do either.

 

Way back in my surly-rebellious-rationalist high school phase, my (really-truly brilliant) best friend and I stayed up into the wee hours one night noodling over Great Universal Imponderables, and she said something that has stayed with me for over thirty years, something to the effect of I don't think any religion gets it quite right -- I mean, if God is truly infinite and eternal, and humans are finite and limited, how could any of them be exactly right, you can't fit an infinity into a finite container. I think of religious frameworks as like physics equations -- a type of reductive language that tries to describe our best current understanding of underlying forces and relationships. The equations are tremendously helpful, but they are only pointers to the forces and relationships, not the relationships themselves; and the equations we have today are not frozen -- they will and should be revisited and revised and reframed in later generations as we learn more.

 

She was 17 when she said this (!!!) , and I basically blew her off at the time since I was not myself nearly mature enough to receive it; but it has been slow-detonating ever since. (FTR, as a sidebar, she and her husband settled into a UU community in their mid-twenties and have raised three kids within that framework, which is all about living an ethical and richly spiritual life and not at all about True Doctrine. She didn't get there because of "fit" with her "desires." Its analytical framework, which cannot possibly be described as 'doctrine,' aligns with her understanding that no true doctrine is possible.)

 

 

Another lightbulb moment for me was when another dear friend of mine who is good friends of Shelby Spong, then the Episcopal Bishop of Newark, introduced me to him, which led me to Spong's (many) books. In one of them, he exhorts readers to conduct an experiment, something along the lines of: For a week, as you go through your daily life, every time you see an act of kindness or compassion or love, however small, label it. Say: that is God in action. Say it every time. I rolled my eyes, but I happened at that juncture to be in a restless-questing phase (lots of phases in my life, lol), so I gave it a whirl.

 

At first I felt perfectly ridiculous. It could not have been more artificial: a cheap linguistic trick, a sort of divine marketing campaign slapped over human behavior that could be understood in a million other ways without reference to the supernatural. But I carried doggedly on. And over the course of the week I noticed two things. First, however artificial the name game might be, the structure of the experiment had the effect of rendering "God" visible. Forty, fifty times a day, as I witnessed small acts of love and kindness, I was saying: there is God. And whether or not I "believed" that God really "was" the "true" source of those examples of human behavior, using the label softened the struggle I was experiencing. And second: explicitly looking for, and noticing, and marking, small acts of human love and compassion had a sort of Observer Effect. Once I started noticing kindness and compassion in the public domain, particularly between strangers and particularly-particularly unacknowledged / unreciprocated acts, I had a sort of well, duh! recognition click into place: well, if there were a wholly-loving God like Spong imagines, this is what such a God would call for.

 

 

 

The teacher who probably influenced my journey the most is a person I've never met, the religious historian Karen Armstrong. She too has written a bazillion books, and I've read all of them. In her youth she was a Catholic nun; she left in her early twenties and now describes herself as a "freelance monotheist," which cracks me up; but she is a student and scholar of all the major faith traditions and has written deeply and respectfully about Islam and Buddhism in particular. (Her sister is a practicing Buddhist.) Anyway, two themes that run throughout her work are that 1. our sacred texts and traditions are large, and contain multitudes; and have the capacity both to call us to our best selves, but also to justify and provide cover for our worst selves; and that therefore 2. it is up to us to develop the capacity to discern the difference, and choose the elements of our tradition that lead us to compassion over a long list of historically-religiously-sanctioned other elements including Other-ization, judgment and violence.

 

 

And the final experience that Rocked My Spiritual World was an interfaith group that met for six years... which was instrumental in both helping me to clarify and deepen my own relationship with Judaism, and also opened up innumerable pathways to understanding human truth (little t) through the stories, practices and traditions of other faiths.

 

 

 

 

 

 

... and now I have to go, before getting round to this part of your framework, which also sparks a million mental fireworks :lol: ... but I'll go for now.

 

Peace....

Wow, Pam. That is an amazing post. And, I wish I could talk eith your college friend, because that is perfectly brilliant.

 

And I like the labeling experiment. I have done a few experiments and it brought a lot of beauty into my life each time.

[MaeFlowers]

This has been an interesting thread. I always enjoy the religious threads on this board and learning about different denominations.

 

But, what do you do when you can't find a church that "fits"?

[Guest]

This has been an interesting thread. I always enjoy the religious threads on this board and learning about different denominations.

 

But, what do you do when you can't find a church that "fits"?

Read the Bible at home and keep looking. :)

[Guest]

This has been an interesting thread. I always enjoy the religious threads on this board and learning about different denominations.

 

But, what do you do when you can't find a church that "fits"?

This is sort of the crux of the matter, to me. What do I want to fit--the church to me, or me to the church...and even before this, I had to ask "What is the Church?" and "Who or what is my teacher?" The latter, because I had come to a point where I understood that maybe I needed someone-not-me to be my teacher.

 

Keep seeking Christ. If you do, you will find Him.

[MaeFlowers]

Read the Bible at home and keep looking. :)

  

This is sort of the crux of the matter, to me. What do I want to fit--the church to me, or me to the church...and even before this, I had to ask "What is the Church?" and "Who or what is my teacher?" The latter, because I had come to a point where I understood that maybe I needed someone-not-me to be my teacher.

Keep seeking Christ. If you do, you will find Him.

I think this is my problem. I don't think I should be my own teacher. I think by doing so, I am missing out on too much. However, I don't find church services fulfilling in any way. I guess I just need to do more research. I just have no idea where to start.

[ktgrok]

  

I think this is my problem. I don't think I should be my own teacher. I think by doing so, I am missing out on too much. However, I don't find church services fulfilling in any way. I guess I just need to do more research. I just have no idea where to start.

 

One way to look at it is that Church isn't there to serve us, or fulfill us. Church is an opportunity for us to worship God. That keeps me going when I don't feel like it. 

[MercyA]

Keep seeking Christ. If you do, you will find Him.

 

Well said, Patty Joanna. Reading through the book of John is always a good place to start.

[Guest]

 

I think this is my problem. I don't think I should be my own teacher. I think by doing so, I am missing out on too much. However, I don't find church services fulfilling in any way. I guess I just need to do more research. I just have no idea where to start.

I have two friends that I talk through my questions and thoughts with. One is the aforementioned Divinity school graduate, who has helped guide me when I've struggled through translation questions among other things. Another is an almost 80 year old woman that used to work for me and has more wisdom than I could ever hope to gather. Between those two blessings and some trusted websites across denominations, I manage to continue to grow. I am not actually sure being a member of a church body would help me much more on that front- it would serve the sense of community, but with the technology available now, I personally don't feel I'm my own teacher as much as I'm in charge of searching out the resources. But, that is probably also something I am more comfortable with simply because so many churches here aren't led by huge governing bodies. Non-denominational churches around here are the rule rather than the exception. Many of the Catholic Churches have shut down and even the baptist churches are vastly outnumbered by the non-denoms.

[J-rap]

-if I were to change churches or religions it would be for doctrinal reasons, because I had determined the new church's doctrine to be more correct and its authority more authentic. I've heard similar thoughts from members of Catholic and Orthodox churches. 

 

Yes, this.   It's all about getting closer to what I believe is the ultimate truth.

 

When our kids were younger, however, we also looked for a church that had a strong youth outreach/participation.  

 

Now, all we look for is a meaty sermon/message.  Music and everything else is mostly unimportant.

[MaeFlowers]

One way to look at it is that Church isn't there to serve us, or fulfill us. Church is an opportunity for us to worship God. That keeps me going when I don't feel like it.

 

I want to know and understand God more. To better understand the Bible and the Church, as well. I don't feel like I get that out of services. That's what I mean by not being fulfilled. Maybe those things aren't the point of service, only worship. I'll think about that.

 

  

I have two friends that I talk through my questions and thoughts with. One is the aforementioned Divinity school graduate, who has helped guide me when I've struggled through translation questions among other things. Another is an almost 80 year old woman that used to work for me and has more wisdom than I could ever hope to gather. Between those two blessings and some trusted websites across denominations, I manage to continue to grow. I am not actually sure being a member of a church body would help me much more on that front- it would serve the sense of community, but with the technology available now, I personally don't feel I'm my own teacher as much as I'm in charge of searching out the resources. But, that is probably also something I am more comfortable with simply because so many churches here aren't led by huge governing bodies. Non-denominational churches around here are the rule rather than the exception. Many of the Catholic Churches have shut down and even the baptist churches are vastly outnumbered by the non-denoms.

I guess I feel like I have hit a roadblock with reading. I read it and then want to discuss it and don't have anyone to talk to.

 

Thanks everyone. I think I have derailed the thread too much. And now back to your regular programming...

[Guest]

I want to know and understand God more. To better understand the Bible and the Church, as well. I don't feel like I get that out of services. That's what I mean by not being fulfilled. Maybe those things aren't the point of service, only worship. I'll think about that.

 

 

I guess I feel like I have hit a roadblock with reading. I read it and then want to discuss it and don't have anyone to talk to.

 

 

I do understand this. I was in the same situation for a long time. Ironically, these two women were Christians who then turned away for a while, and then turned back to the Lord although neither have made a rentry to their respective churches. Incidents within the churches are partially what caused them to leave in the first place, so we are kindred spirits in that regard I guess. But a lot of prayer on all parts is what I credit with bringing us together. I think that if we ask, God will bring into our path who or what we need.

[Guest]

I got to a point where I realized I knew a lot about God, but didn't know HIM any better than I had 15 years earlier. That was a turning point. Who can teach me how to know God--not just know about Him?

[gypsymama]

I haven't read any replies, but I very much identify with what you're saying. When DH and I became Chrisian, we researched denominations and chose the Episcopal Church based on it being the closest in alignment with our beliefs. Three years later, we left for the Orthodox Church because I felt that if anything were "true" Christianity, that was it, whether I agree with certain stances or not. If I'm not Orthodox, I'm not Christian.

 

This^^ I have still not come to the end of my spiritual search but I have gotten far enough to know that if Christianity is "true" and "real" it's the Orthodox church. That I know and I feel with everything I have. Now just to get over that Christian or not thing...

 

 

I feel like I fall in the middle of this. I struggle with the sources of church authority, largely because so many of them have ended up corrupt in instance after instance. But scandal exempt, they're still just people and by default are fallible. I have an easier time with leadership than I do with authority, and there is a difference. At least the way I interpret the two words......I don't want anyone to tell me "this is what it is because it's just RIGHT".  Asking questions demonstrates a lack of faith to many who chose to exercise this position. I disagree. I want a place willing to explain the why, cite the appropriate reference and then let me make my own conclusions. There are definitely black and white issues, but then there are issues that are up for debate. I think things would be so much more simple if some authorities were open to the concept of saying "well, we just don't know. It's not addressed in the scripture. We can try and say blah blah, but we really cannot definitively. This though is how we can try and address it from a Christ like attitude....."

 

 

This bolded part... I've actually had a church say this to me. The priest at the Orthodox church as well as many Orthodox teachings and readings state that they just don't know on things. It was the first and key thing that caught my logical, literal, skeptical mind's attention and lured me into the Orthodox church. :) 

[rob76shep]

I'm an agnostic Buddhist-Pagan, for the record. My beliefs are about me becoming a better, happier person and doing what I can to make others happier, better people. It isn't about possessing some ultimate cosmic truth; that's a recipe for pain and conflict, imo. My religious beliefs and practices are "true" in the sense that they make me a better person and help me see things now more clearly when I follow them.

[Pam in CT]

re finding teachers

 

  
I think this is my problem. I don't think I should be my own teacher. I think by doing so, I am missing out on too much. However, I don't find church services fulfilling in any way. I guess I just need to do more research. I just have no idea where to start.

 

I want to know and understand God more. To better understand the Bible and the Church, as well. I don't feel like I get that out of services. That's what I mean by not being fulfilled. Maybe those things aren't the point of service, only worship. I'll think about that.

  
I guess I feel like I have hit a roadblock with reading. I read it and then want to discuss it and don't have anyone to talk to.

Thanks everyone. I think I have derailed the thread too much. And now back to your regular programming...

 

 

Mae, I realize you and I are coming from very different starting points, but for me, this business of finding teachers is... essential to growing, and to deepening my religious connection.  

 

You know that toddler book, Are You My Mother?  For fifteen years, I wandered the desert, asking of all sorts of people Are You My Teacher?  When I finally started to find them, I realized they were not necessarily where, or who, I expected them to be.  But they're there.

 

:grouphug: Keep looking.

[Rosie_0801]

You know that toddler book, Are You My Mother?  For fifteen years, I wandered the desert, asking of all sorts of people Are You My Teacher?  When I finally started to find them, I realized they were not necessarily where, or who, I expected them to be.  But they're there.

 

:grouphug: Keep looking.

 

*giggle*

One of online buddies said she gets asked how she came to the Orthodox church and she doesn't say "My online, Australian, Pagan friend sent me." She doesn't think they'd understand. :D

 

My religious decisions are made much the same way as Mergath's. Self actualise and help other people self actualise.

[Bluegoat]

This has been an interesting thread. I always enjoy the religious threads on this board and learning about different denominations.

 

But, what do you do when you can't find a church that "fits"?

 

It might depend on the nature of the fit problem.

 

For us, if there was really nothing, we would have Morning Prayer at home on Sunday, and perhaps travel one a month, or whatever was possible, to a place where we could receive the sacraments.  It might be possible to consider some kind of outreach work with a non-fit group, depending on the circumstances. 

[Bluegoat]

I want to know and understand God more. To better understand the Bible and the Church, as well. I don't feel like I get that out of services. That's what I mean by not being fulfilled. Maybe those things aren't the point of service, only worship. I'll think about that.

 

  

I guess I feel like I have hit a roadblock with reading. I read it and then want to discuss it and don't have anyone to talk to.

 

Thanks everyone. I think I have derailed the thread too much. And now back to your regular programming...

 

It may be that both things are true - you are meant to get things out of services, but that isn't the only point of them.  Some people just seem less inclined to be able to get a lot out of them that way.  Or, you end up in a community where the teaching during the services is not great - not every pastor is equally good at everything.  Or, the organization really doesn't have a handle on how to make it work.

 

Sometimes it can help to think - what would a really good service look like, in my mind?  Or just try something totally different than what you've done before.

[PrincessMommy]

This has been an interesting thread. I always enjoy the religious threads on this board and learning about different denominations.

 

But, what do you do when you can't find a church that "fits"?

 

I went through a time like this when I was very unsettled and confused.  It was after I had just begun my studies into the Early Church - reading the Apostolic Fathers and stories of people who had done a similar search.  

 

Anyway, I remember sitting on the side of the bed and crying to my husband that I didn't know what to do or where I belonged anymore.   He said to me "Remember, Jesus said, 'my Sheep will hear My voice.'  keep asking Him to help you." 

 

I'll give you the same advice - Keep asking Him to help you.  And i agree about reading the Bible, but not exclude some of the richness from the Early Church.  There's some really great writings out there and it's more accessible than people realize (ie: it's not all stuffy and overly wordy).

 

 

  

I think this is my problem. I don't think I should be my own teacher. I think by doing so, I am missing out on too much. However, I don't find church services fulfilling in any way. I guess I just need to do more research. I just have no idea where to start.

 

I'll state what I said above:  Read the Apostolic Fathers and the Church Fathers - find some encouragement from the faith of those early Christians.  Learn what they did.   Most modern translations will have a little synopsis of each writer's life, which I often find just as encouraging as what they wrote. 

[TianXiaXueXiao]

I want to know and understand God more. To better understand the Bible and the Church, as well. I don't feel like I get that out of services. That's what I mean by not being fulfilled. Maybe those things aren't the point of service, only worship. I'll think about that.

 

 

I guess I feel like I have hit a roadblock with reading. I read it and then want to discuss it and don't have anyone to talk to.

 

With regard to the first point quoted above, you may want to experience an Eastern Orthodox worship service. The Scriptures are very much alive in each and every Orthodox service. Honestly, I have come to understand the Holy Scriptures in a much more meaningful and applicable way just through church attendance. The main point of Orthodox Christian worship is to encounter God which is accomplished in large part through not only the Gospel readings but through the Epistle readings and Old Testament readings, the Hymnography, the Prayers, and receiving of the sacraments.

 

As for your second point, I will reiterate the advice that you talk to God and I follow that with encouraging you to start discussions here. I would happily participate in a thread devoted to Scripture and I know many others would, as well! :)

[MercyA]

I want to know and understand God more. To better understand the Bible and the Church, as well. I don't feel like I get that out of services. That's what I mean by not being fulfilled. Maybe those things aren't the point of service, only worship. I'll think about that.

  

I guess I feel like I have hit a roadblock with reading. I read it and then want to discuss it and don't have anyone to talk to.

 

I can't imagine having a better attitude than that. There are so many good promises for you:

 

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you." Matthew 7:7

 

"But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him." James 1:5

 

"You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13

 

I would say that if your church is not helping you understand the Bible, you might either want to talk to the leadership about that or possibly look elsewhere. 

 

I was thinking about what you said about wanting to discuss what you've read with others. I wonder if there might be a Bible Study Fellowship class in your area? I've never been to one, but I've heard good things about them. They welcome people of all denominations. From what I understand, they also provide childcare / classes for children. Here's their website, if you're interested.

 

My church is starting a women's Bible study group this summer--I wish you could come! We're just going to read through John, journal our thoughts and questions, and discuss. I wonder if your church or any of your friends' churches offer something like that. 

 

Blessings to you as you seek Him.

[gypsymama]

With regard to the first point quoted above, you may want to experience an Eastern Orthodox worship service. The Scriptures are very much alive in each and every Orthodox service. Honestly, I have come to understand the Holy Scriptures in a much more meaningful and applicable way just through church attendance. The main point of Orthodox Christian worship is to encounter God which is accomplished in large part through not only the Gospel readings but through the Epistle readings and Old Testament readings, the Hymnography, the Prayers, and receiving of the sacraments.

 

As for your second point, I will reiterate the advice that you talk to God and I follow that with encouraging you to start discussions here. I would happily participate in a thread devoted to Scripture and I know many others would, as well! :)

 

I agree with this.  I also find that people within the Orthodox church are extremely helpful and willing to discuss/debate religious issues. The local priest and matushka as well as parishioners were more than happy to suggest reading to me and discuss it with me. A lot of Orthodox churches also host inquirers' classes during the year for people interested in finding out more. This would be a good place to discuss religious readings with others even if you didn't decide to join the Orthodox church. 

[TranquilMind]

I've only skimmed the Episcopal thread, but find it interesting that different people seem to have very different ideas of what one should look for in a church or religion, and how religious decisions (such as joining a church) should be made. If people are up for it I would like to explore these ideas more. 

 

I personally belong to a church (LDS) with a strong emphasis on seeking true doctrine and also true authority from God. The idea of looking for a church to fit my needs or desires is foreign to me--if I were to change churches or religions it would be for doctrinal reasons, because I had determined the new church's doctrine to be more correct and its authority more authentic. I've heard similar thoughts from members of Catholic and Orthodox churches. 

 

We feel like God leads us to the place we are supposed to be, and sometimes this is just for a time.  We are always in 100% agreement, and when we are not, we don't make a move.  We've mostly been in places for decades at a time, though we did leave one place after a decade because the kids' ministry, which we had just started using upon occasion, was showing Disney movies every weekend instead of even attempting to teach them anything.  I'm a big believer in your children being old enough to tell you everything before you send them anywhere without you. 

 

We believe God's word as revealed in scripture is the true authority, and if man deviates from that, man is wrong, no matter who he is.   Sometime man gets pulled off track or pulled into his own comfort or desires.  I've seen churches go under because of this, so I think we are to be watchful.