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beansprouts

I may just be losing my mind...

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It's possible. Does that mean you should start her now and have her done by fourteen. Hey that would be nice. Just kiddin.

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It could be. I've heard of such things and even stranger things they have done early. Good for the both of you if he is. Don't push him and make him hate it, nurture it and be glad that he is one child that you don't have to struggle with to teach to read, lol.

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It could be. I've heard of such things and even stranger things they have done early. Good for the both of you if he is. Don't push him and make him hate it, nurture it and be glad that he is one child that you don't have to struggle with to teach to read, lol.

 

Oh, I don't plan to do a thing differently at this point.

 

I am just not sure I am seeing what I think I am seeing. He isn't really verbal, yet, so it is hard to know how much he knows. He was pointing out specific words as we read to him from a Bob book (one he's never seen before). He pointed to and said the words "hat" and "cat" and even made the "H-H-" sound when he said the word "hat".

 

I suppose time will tell.

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Sounds like reading to me, I think the earlier they read, the more love of reading, which goes far.

 

Dont quote me though, I am no expert.

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That is sooooo awesome! My girls were both reading BIG TIME at 3. So it could totally be!

 

I know other families have seen this, so I realise that it is definitely possible.

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The sig line quote is from my 4 year old. On the other side, Mom says "Just a minute let me finish this post..." :tongue_smilie:

 

Unlike his siblings, 4yo ds had no interest at all in academics until a few weeks ago. Now, all of a sudden, he has become insatiable. I am thinking he just might surprise me.

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Oh, I don't plan to do a thing differently at this point.

 

I am just not sure I am seeing what I think I am seeing. He isn't really verbal, yet, so it is hard to know how much he knows. He was pointing out specific words as we read to him from a Bob book (one he's never seen before). He pointed to and said the words "hat" and "cat" and even made the "H-H-" sound when he said the word "hat".

 

I suppose time will tell.

 

 

Yes ma'am it most certainly is possible.

Get ready for more "Am I crazy?" moments.:001_smile:

 

My dd learned letters and sounds at 1 from a leapfrog toy that we bought to keep her occupied on dh's business trip. So, when she turned two I sat down and wrote C A T on a piece of paper. I was just going to ask her if she knew them, but before I could ask she sounded the word out and said "cat". I repeated this several times with different three letters words and she didn't miss a single word. DH and I stood staring at each other like we had seen a ghost mopping the kitchen floor.

 

By three she could read anything-phonetically.

 

After your dh outgrows Bob Books I recommend these

http://www.amazon.com/My-World-Now-Im-Reading/dp/1584762632

 

Why? Because they cracked my dd up.:lol:

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...but I think my 2 year old is reading.
It happens. My oldest was reading at 2, and by 4 she was reading faster than me. It's humbling :blush: but I got over it.

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congrats :) I remember my daughter reading her first words and sentences at that age. He may well just take off. My daughter was reading simple chapter books (Little House, Charolette's Web, etc) right after turning 3. She was a little more verbal though.

 

My ds is my late bloomer (and non-verbal at 2 and 3) but also could read a few hundred words. It just didn't click with him for another 8 years <stressing poor momma out!> Your ds probably won't be like that though based on what you've said about your family though. My ds has always kept us on our toes between being astonished and anxious.

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If you have read the Bob book to him he may have memorized the word as a sight word.

 

At 18 months my older son had memorized the look of the word pizza. We were driving through a town that we are not usually in and he pointed to a pizza restaurant sign and said "pizza"! There were NO images of pizza anywhere, just the restaurant name which was an Italian person's last name with Pizza after it. (That child was not an early reader, I taught him phonics at age 5 in K grade and finished up in beginning of 1st grade when he was 6.)

 

It is none of my business but I will say this too as I'm really curious. Why is your 2 year old seeing a Bob book? It is not a book to read aloud from, it is intended JUST for reading practice when teaching reading. They are not even good stories so IMO are not worthy to ever read aloud to any child, even to a one or two year old. I would say to put away all phonics readers and easy reader leveled books until the child is learning to read. Instead read aloud to the child from real, normal, good picture books.

 

(I hope the Bob book was lying around due to an older sib using it to learn to read.)

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If you have read the Bob book to him he may have memorized the word as a sight word.

 

At 18 months my older son had memorized the look of the word pizza. We were driving through a town that we are not usually in and he pointed to a pizza restaurant sign and said "pizza"! There were NO images of pizza anywhere, just the restaurant name which was an Italian person's last name with Pizza after it. (That child was not an early reader, I taught him phonics at age 5 in K grade and finished up in beginning of 1st grade when he was 6.)

 

It is none of my business but I will say this too as I'm really curious. Why is your 2 year old seeing a Bob book? It is not a book to read aloud from, it is intended JUST for reading practice when teaching reading. They are not even good stories so IMO are not worthy to ever read aloud to any child, even to a one or two year old. I would say to put away all phonics readers and easy reader leveled books until the child is learning to read. Instead read aloud to the child from real, normal, good picture books.

 

(I hope the Bob book was lying around due to an older sib using it to learn to read.)

 

Yes, the Bob books were purchased for my 4 1/2 year old ds. There happened to be a couple lying around, and 2yo ds found them and wanted them read to him.

 

He really wants to be a part of "school" with his older siblings. When he climbs up to the table I give things to keep him busy. Sometimes it is crayons and paper or old workbooks, often it is manipulatives like counting bears, magnetic pattern blocks or letters. He likes to look at the letters and have me tell him what they are and what they say. It appears that my efforts to just "keep him busy" are actually teaching him somethng.

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Congrats!

 

My youngest is 3, and he is reading some now that we are focusing more on it with my 4 year old. They may both start reading at the same time! Hopefully this will work out for your kids too! Once they can read their world opens up to so many new things!!

 

Wendy - Mommy of 3 munchkins

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At 18 months my older son had memorized the look of the word pizza.

I'm curious just because it sounds like it could be a funny story, why the word "pizza"?

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I'm curious just because it sounds like it could be a funny story, why the word "pizza"?

 

My dd memorized the word "pizza" as well around that age. We didn't eat out at the time but would get pizza about once a month on a weekend. We were driving through town and passed a Pizza Hut (a place we never got pizza from so she didn't recognize the sign for the store itself like the Big M of McDonalds). She yelled out "Pizza, Mommy, pizza!" I looked up and saw the sign and said, "How did you know that?"

 

Her response was..."Well it says it right there on that sign in really big letters!" Duh!?!

 

She did end up being an early reader though it was difficult for me to know exactly when she read really because she began memorizing books word for word at 13 months and by 18 months only needed to hear a book once or twice to have it memorized. She read simple CVC words at 2.5yo (I still questioned whether she simply memorized words) and I do know that she picked up a Little House book at about 3.5yo and read it fluently without any errors. I still have no idea where she learned all those phonics rules. Osmosis maybe!

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My dd memorized the word "pizza" as well around that age. We didn't eat out at the time but would get pizza about once a month on a weekend. We were driving through town and passed a Pizza Hut (a place we never got pizza from so she didn't recognize the sign for the store itself like the Big M of McDonalds). She yelled out "Pizza, Mommy, pizza!" I looked up and saw the sign and said, "How did you know that?"

 

Her response was..."Well it says it right there on that sign in really big letters!" Duh!?!

 

She did end up being an early reader though it was difficult for me to know exactly when she read really because she began memorizing books word for word at 13 months and by 18 months only needed to hear a book once or twice to have it memorized. She read simple CVC words at 2.5yo (I still questioned whether she simply memorized words) and I do know that she picked up a Little House book at about 3.5yo and read it fluently without any errors. I still have no idea where she learned all those phonics rules. Osmosis maybe!

 

 

I am chuckling at your story!

 

read , noun

–verb (used with object) 1.to look at carefully so as to understand the meaning of (something written, printed, etc.): to read a book; to read music. 2.to utter aloud or render in speech (something written, printed, etc.): reading a story to his children; The actor read his lines in a booming voice. 3.to have such knowledge of (a language) as to be able to understand things written in it: to be able to read French.

 

 

 

My dd was a sight reader who struggled with phonics at first. By 4 1/2 she could memorize a word after seeing it once, and progressed to about a 3rd grade level reading this way. It was only after she had been reading well for several months that the phonics began to click for her. (Incidentially she did struggle with spelling until about a year ago, and I think that was because she had trouble with phonics.) Because of my experience with her, I do mix phonics with whole word instruction for my boys. So I would not blow off "memorizing words" because that is seeing and comprehending a written symbol (reading). ;)

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(I mean the reading, not the losing your mind... LOL!)

 

DS wasn't that early, but he was early... and I got a lot of criticism about pushing him AND about making it up. Neither one was true, but it was irritating anyway. When he was two and three he was a huge fan of workbooks, and we did do some phonics then, but other than that DS was terribly independent about it, and a great hider too -- for at least two years he claimed not to be reading even though he frequently slipped up... one of my favorite moments was when we were in line at a concession stand and I was telling him we could get a pretzel (and ONLY a pretzel) and he said, "But the sign says 'Grilled Hot Dogs!'" :lol: Yeah, not reading my foot! He was fully five, and reading novels with no pictures, before he let on to anyone but DH and me... and then there was a lot of backpedaling on the "making it up" front. :glare:

 

But it seems fast food is a recurring theme for early readers! LOL

 

One thing I did notice with DS (but which doesn't seem to be an issue with yours) is that a great deal of his early reading was on signs at a distance.... It turns out that he was probably fairly far-sighted until actually this year. Not out of the "normal" range for his age, but enough that it ought to have affected his reading more, and might have contributed to his not being a voracious reader for a long time. His spelling has also kept pace with his farsightedness... but both are getting much better now.

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One thing I did notice with DS (but which doesn't seem to be an issue with yours) is that a great deal of his early reading was on signs at a distance.... It turns out that he was probably fairly far-sighted until actually this year. Not out of the "normal" range for his age, but enough that it ought to have affected his reading more, and might have contributed to his not being a voracious reader for a long time. His spelling has also kept pace with his farsightedness... but both are getting much better now.

 

I understand the far-sightedness is fairly normal for young children, and near vision doesn't develop until later. When my dd was 3 or so and beginning to recognize words, I took her for a vision exam. The doctor told me that her near vision was very well established for her age, and predicted that in a few more years she would be near-sighted. She was 8 when we put her into her first pair of glasses.

 

My 4yo ds knows his letters and sounds, and if I told him the sounds he could figure out the word. But if I ask him to read it, he squints and looks away. I think his vision is the only thing holding him back from reading right now, and it may be time to have his eyes checked. I haven't tried having him read a large word from a distance, though. That might be an interesting test.

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maybe your child is gifted, try to have an IQ test just to be sure. :)

 

I haven't even tested my 9 year old. Their teacher knows them well, so I am not sure testing is necessary ;)

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It looks like there are a lot of kids reading very early. Mine was slow to talk, and when she was almost 2 and could say only a dozen or so words singly, I was reading some stuff about how many words they should say at various ages and I thought, “Does this include letters and numbers?” because she had learned to read and say them all months ago and write most of them, randomly, in a scribbly way, and could read a few words. (So I knew she was very smart, but worried about her talking ability, until her vocabulary increased sevenfold that month.) Anyway, she’s very eager to read, and asks me to read the phonics book with her, but she is grasping only the beginning concepts of it so far. Sometime she starts sounding out words spontaneously when she’s trying to read on her own, which is cute.

 

It appears from this thread, generally, early readers’ progress takes off at a very fast pace whenever it happens to start. But mine took about a year and a half to go from starting to read words to being able to read Pat the Bunny and Brown Bear, Brown Bear, What Do You See? while I hold the book for her and point to each word so she doesn’t skip any. She is able to read some bigger words, like “mathematician” and “Oxford” :) and asks me to read hard stuff, like Idylls of the King, a few words at a time so she can repeat the words as I point to them (also cute, but tiresome!). Does anybody else have an early reader who is making such slow progress? I don’t want her to get frustrated or to get into any bad habits.

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My kids were/are so different in reading levels.

 

I really believe it can be an interest thing, not just ability thing.

 

Most kids have the ability and can be trained/taught to read between 4 and 6.

 

Two of my kids were recongizing letters before age 2. They were just interested and said "what's this?" and pointed to letters like they would point to anything else.

 

The difference is - they REMEMBERED the shape and sound of the letter I was telling them!

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And THEN I have 2 kids who didn't learn to read until they were almost 6!

 

Kids are so different!

 

After the first one could read (Hop on Pop) by 4 1/2 - he had basically taught himself to read - the 2nd one came along and there was NOTHING we could do or teach to her to get her to learn anything besides a few letters until she was almost 6. We tried over and over, we would give up for awhile, then try something else. Finally things started to click, and within a few months she went from reading letters to simple chapter books! It clicked that fast! But it had to be in her time.

 

I was really grateful we were homeschooling her because she is one that would have felt really bad if others were learning and she wasn't able to get it.

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but then she didn't progress much beyond that until she was 4.5, by 5 she was reading fluently. My boys asked to start when they had just turned 3. One of them was reading fluently by 3.5 and can now read just about anything. The other one is only now ready to progress to vowel digraphs but he is picking it up quickly. My youngest has been trying to read since before she was two and could recognise some words then, she is having trouble because she has hearing problems and can't hear some sounds. A little healthy competition has been an incentive to do more at some stages of their development (the joys of twins and one just a little older:001_smile:)

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My oldest could read several words by 1 even though he couldn't say them. I'd lay the words out and ask him to 'point to the word that says "Mummy"' and so on. He was reading whole books by 2.

 

He hasn't turned out to be a genius or anything but I do think his whole school experience has been easier because of being able to read so young. He has always loved reading. He is short-sighted and wears glasses but then so does his Dad and younger brother who didn't really learn to read until he was around 9.

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My ds was reading at 2 and my dd probably would have been (she read at 3) if we had known that you could teach a willing kid to read that young. She knew all her letters at 18 months. Some kids are just wired that way. My son has an October birthday and in our church they keep them in their Sunday school class until September. So, he was technically almost 3 before he got to move up. (Crazy!!) One day the nursery teacher came to me and said, "We might want to move your son up to the 2 year old class room, since he is reading to us!" He is now 10 and still enjoys reading but he's pretty normal (probably the advanced side of normal) now.

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My ds was reading at 2 and my dd probably would have been (she read at 3) if we had known that you could teach a willing kid to read that young. She knew all her letters at 18 months. Some kids are just wired that way. My son has an October birthday and in our church they keep them in their Sunday school class until September. So, he was technically almost 3 before he got to move up. (Crazy!!) One day the nursery teacher came to me and said, "We might want to move your son up to the 2 year old class room, since he is reading to us!" He is now 10 and still enjoys reading but he's pretty normal (probably the advanced side of normal) now.

 

I don't know whether early reading means a gifted child or simply a highly visual one. For us, it really doesn't matter. My kids' teacher knows their abilities quite well ;)

 

So how do you teach your young children to read?

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We use SSRW and just adapt it for their age. I started my oldest dd on level 1 at 4, my second dd wanted to learn too, so I went back and bought the K for her at 3. Obviously at that age, they can't do all the handwriting, and we didn't do all the spelling, but the games and songs are fun, and I liked the systematic approach. My oldest was reading at 2nd grade level within the year. They're both still advanced, and we'll soon start with my 3yo ds. It's really cute when they're learning to read so young! My second dd at 3 would read any word she found anywhere using the phonetic rules she knew. "HOT" on the pizza box "TRAS-h" on the trash can (she hadn't learned any blends yet at that point).

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I used starfall.com until she knew all of her letter sounds. Then we used HOP - a friend gave me a set with the five different levels. We went through it in about 9 months. She loved it! Although, I really didn't have to do any teaching except to give her examples of some of the consonant or vowel sound combinations. So I kind of feel like I can't take too much credit. :lol:

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My oldest also read at 2. And now that I'm teaching my little one to read, I appreciate at having a spontaneous reader even more. Man, I'm I strugglin'!

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I may have one too... my little one, who, just 4 months ago was barely saying a few words... tonight, watching tv, sounded out the word "sharp" (the Tivo was on pause on a Sharp commerical).

 

Now, when I see her huddled in a chair with a book, saying "I'm reading." I have to wonder, is she really????

 

Unlike my others, she has never stood around saying the letter sounds, or letter names for that matter (my oldest knew all of them somehow by 18 months). This just seemed so out of the blue, you know?

 

Well, even if she's not -- and this was just a fluke -- she's still adorable :D

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It is none of my business but I will say this too as I'm really curious. Why is your 2 year old seeing a Bob book? It is not a book to read aloud from, it is intended JUST for reading practice when teaching reading. They are not even good stories so IMO are not worthy to ever read aloud to any child, even to a one or two year old. I would say to put away all phonics readers and easy reader leveled books until the child is learning to read. Instead read aloud to the child from real, normal, good picture books.

 

(I hope the Bob book was lying around due to an older sib using it to learn to read.)

Wow. I totally disagree with this. My son loved to listen to Bob books. We didn't use them for reading practice at all. I've also read aloud leveled readers if they were a subject ds was interested in. We're a book family. We believe in reading books...and that includes books that don't always have a wonderful storyline...but might make the kids laugh.

 

Now...we also read ds the Lord of the Rings Trilogy when he was three, and we're reading Peter Pan (the original version) right now. And we love picture books...we have about 500 of them. But I'm certainly not going to deny my child the pleasure he derives from having Bob books or leveled readers read to him.

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Wow. I totally disagree with this. My son loved to listen to Bob books. We didn't use them for reading practice at all. I've also read aloud leveled readers if they were a subject ds was interested in. We're a book family. We believe in reading books...and that includes books that don't always have a wonderful storyline...but might make the kids laugh.

 

 

It is the same here. I will read him anything. I think the point is I was not "teaching" my 2yo Bob Books (though maybe I should start?)

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I have three older children and 2 youngers. My DD 21 learned to read at 6, DS 19 learned to read at 8. Ds 17 learned to read at 4. My DH and I have two together DS 2.9, and DD almost 1.

 

DS 2 can read simple cvc words now. He started pointing out letters on everything, saying thier sounds ( from Leap Frog DVD Letter Factory ). His Dad was messing around on the white board.... ( he was shocked ). He went through all the letters, giving thier sounds. So Dad picked up a book and DS read a lot of it.

 

DH is still in shock, it may take him a while to get over it. I will just roll with the flow. When he is interested we do school. When he isn't we play LOL I don't want to push.... he will progress in his own sweet time. But I will not stiffle his interest either. Just as I didn't with his older siblings.

 

It really is possible.

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...but I think my 2 year old is reading.

 

Seriously.

 

I've heard of kids as young as 12 mo read some and 18 mo read fluently!

 

Spooky, isn't it???? (Okay, you're not supposed to say that, but my daughter creeped my out juuust a little this week. :-P )

 

My DS started spontaneously reading WORDS at two--but it was a looong time before he was a fluent reader. (He was barely second grade level before he turned 4, and that was with instruction beginning in the fall of being 3 to try to fix some language issues caused by his auditory processing problems). My mom read fluently at 2, though, and so did her aunts and her grandmother. I read fluently at 3--I could read words before then but was focused on numbers, so I didn't bother making any kind of effort about it! :-)

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I don't know whether early reading means a gifted child or simply a highly visual one. For us, it really doesn't matter. My kids' teacher knows their abilities quite well ;)

 

So how do you teach your young children to read?

 

I don't know where I read this, some magazine somewhere, long ago, so take it for what it's worth. But it said that early reading or speaking indicates giftedness, but the opposite is not true. Late reading or speaking does NOT indicate a lack of giftedness. Sounds logical to me...

Anyway, I knew my DD was gifted in some way when I had this conversation with her at age 23 months.

At the end of a day where she just wasn't her normal happy self, I asked her...."ClaireAnna, why are you being so contrary today?" It was rhetorical. I didn't expect an answer. But she huffed, placed both her fists on her hips and shouted, "Because I don't like following YOUR rules!"

Yikes! No one believes me.

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I don't know where I read this, some magazine somewhere, long ago, so take it for what it's worth. But it said that early reading or speaking indicates giftedness, but the opposite is not true. Late reading or speaking does NOT indicate a lack of giftedness. Sounds logical to me...

 

Early reading "may" indicate giftedness and late reading definitely does not rule it out but children who are not gifted may also read very early. While my dd was having her IQ/achievement assessment done, I read a study in a journal done on a group of very early, spontaneous readers... and I don't remember the exact percentage but it was smaller than I thought it should be who actually ended up being gifted later in life. Most leveled out with their peers by around 3rd grade simply as a result of taking longer to learn at a younger age what their peers learned more quickly at an older age. I always remember the study because of the results and my shock at the numbers.

 

It took awhile for those results to make sense to me but I see the same thing with violin. Kids start Suzuki violin at all ages but generally somewhere between 8-10yo the average kids are about the same level whether they started at 3yo or 6yo. It simply takes the 3yo twice as long to learn what the 6yo can learn in half the time. Of course, there are always exceptions both with early reading and violin...those kids who are "gifted" or accelerated or whatever you want to call it, who take off and are always way ahead of the average which is why we have boards like this.

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So true Donna. Starting kids early doesn't mean they will be gifted. I think genetics has something to do with IQ along with the influece of your environment. The old nature vs nurture question again. I do think as parent teachers we can nurture our little seedlings whereas in ps they may fizzle out due to boredom. Additonally, the spectrum of giftedness seems wide to me. A person with an IQ of 135 is very different from an IQ of 150.

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While my dd was having her IQ/achievement assessment done, I read a study in a journal done on a group of very early, spontaneous readers... and I don't remember the exact percentage but it was smaller than I thought it should be who actually ended up being gifted later in life. Most leveled out with their peers by around 3rd grade simply as a result of taking longer to learn at a younger age what their peers learned more quickly at an older age. I always remember the study because of the results and my shock at the numbers.

 

*sighs* The old "leveling out" nonsense. *shakes head*

 

There are multiple factors that go into early reading.

 

1. Ability.

2. Interest.

3. Exposure.

 

Ability to read FLUENTLY very young is almost always associated with either hyperlexia or high IQ. When you redefine "reading" to mean able to handle first grade-level texts at 4--well, then you include much wider range of kids, and since kids of fairly average intelligence can often read at that level given sufficient interest and exposure. (Spontaneous reading may mean different things to different people.) And since there are a whole lot more average kids than gifted kids, and since the average kids WILL even out when placed in an average educational environment, they'll distort the study by hiding the more gifted ones through their numbers.

 

However, if you define reading as, say, able to handle even 3rd grade texts before enrolling in K, you've got a more stringent definition of reading and would find that the children didn't statistically even out. Define it as 5th grade texts, and you have a more stringent level again! Kids who are handling 5th grade texts before entering K are not at ALL going to "even out" by third grade. (They'd have to regress, among other things! DS tested at grade level 5.2 before K. How on earth would he have evened out???)

 

The statement that the children "even out" by 3rd grade is an indication of the very loose definition of reading. Are kids going to freeze completely in their abilities for FOUR YEARS? Are they going to regress? Of course not! What this means, then, is that the total population wasn't very advanced at all, on average.

 

The problem is that if you set the bar low enough, the exceptional kids (by that I mean literally the exceptions) get lost in the noise.

 

Additionally, if you include hyperlexic kids, you would cancel out a fair portion of gifted children because so amny of their abilities will be so far below that of the average child later in their school career.

 

Finally factoring into ability is any presence of a learning disability that negatively impacts reading. Some people (like me) are only dyslexic to the point of annoyance, but others (like DS) are heavily impacted. Dyslexia will artificially depress reading ability.

 

Interest is also important. Kids either want to read or not. My mother remembers deciding to learn to read at 2. I could read plenty of words at 2 but was pretty uninterested in reading books because my dyslexia annoyed me and I was more numbers-focused. So I didn't read well until I was 3. But ability without interest will still cause some level of reading to occur through sheer exposure. DS' auditory problems caused him to not like even being read aloud to for a long time, but even with his dyslexia, too, he was reading some words at 2.

 

And that's where #3 comes in. Exposure. A child who never sees print can't learn to read--at one extreme. A child who is taught explicitly from a very young age will learn the fastest at a given ability and interest level. Exposure can come from teaching, from being read to, or just from being surrounded by print. Each level of exposure provides a different "push" to reading level.

 

So while I'd agree that there's no SIMPLE correlation between IQ and early reading (spontaneous or not), it can be very indicative.

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*sighs* The old "leveling out" nonsense. *shakes head*
Thank you for taking the time to make such a detailed response.

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*sighs* The old "leveling out" nonsense. *shakes head*

 

There are multiple factors that go into early reading.

 

1. Ability.

2. Interest.

3. Exposure.

 

.

 

 

Reya, this was a good post, but I've deleted most of it to reduce band width. I just wanted to add another factor (I realize that this wasn't meant to be an inclusive list) and that is development of vision and visual problems. This is one of the reasons why a child who does not read early, and may even read "late" could still be gifted/highly gifted, as another poster mentioned.

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Thank you for taking the time to make such a detailed response.

 

Sorry. I didn't mean to bash any of the posters here. I don't have to deal with it, but a LOT of parents who have kids doing math and reading 4, 5, 6 grade levels ahead will be told that their kids can't be considered any smarter than any other kid and that they'll be average by 3rd grade. So there's a lot of pent up bitterness!

 

Also, you have to consider your family when you think a kid is pretty normal. DS's performance is rather slow for our family, so to us, he's not all that smart, and he especially seems delayed in speech area. Yet people are constantly amazed at how "well spoken" he is, and his scores indicate that he's far about most "gifted" kids.

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Reya, this was a good post, but I've deleted most of it to reduce band width. I just wanted to add another factor (I realize that this wasn't meant to be an inclusive list) and that is development of vision and visual problems. This is one of the reasons why a child who does not read early, and may even read "late" could still be gifted/highly gifted, as another poster mentioned.

 

Oh, YES! I totally forgot! My grandmother has SEVERE astigmatism from birth, and it wasn't diagnosed until she was in school/

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Sorry. I didn't mean to bash any of the posters here. I don't have to deal with it, but a LOT of parents who have kids doing math and reading 4, 5, 6 grade levels ahead will be told that their kids can't be considered any smarter than any other kid and that they'll be average by 3rd grade. So there's a lot of pent up bitterness!
No need to apologize to me... I was thanking you because these days I can't get past the *sigh* part after reading about leveling out. I appreciate your doing the work. :)

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*sighs* The old "leveling out" nonsense. *shakes head*

 

Obviously, Reya, you missed the last sentence of my post which takes into account the children who are reading very early and will never be caught up with by the average child. I was simply responding to the post that early reading indicates giftedness by saying that it "may" indicate giftedness and it may not. In the study I read most of the children they tested ended up being hyperlexic so I agree with what you wrote...definitions truly do need to be defined so we are discussing the same thing. Many of us can shake their heads and sigh about the "levelling out" idea but the truth is that truly gifted kids are a small percentage of the population.

 

I have two very early readers who were never going to be caught up with by the crowd but I also have a very stringent definition of reading and would never have considered my children readers until they were able to read a novel (as in not previously read) book. I have noticed a number of people consider their children to be readers as soon as they read their first word but I would consider that pre-reading since I never believed my very littles were reading and not memorizing words. If I considered the first word dd read to be when she started reading it would have been the word "pizza" at 21 months old but that is ridiculous because she couldn't read anything more than those few words she had memorized the shape of.

 

I have had people tell me that my children would level out when they were very young, mostly friends who were teachers. Now I laugh at the thought since my 6yo recently tested with a reading specialist at a 10-12th grade level. So, I agree, there is no way she is going to "level out" by 3rd grade since she has already passed 3rd grade in every subject. The same goes with violin. Many people told me not to start her at 3yo because it would be a waste of time since kids level out. Now at 6yo she plays as well as kids 3-6 years older than her who also started lessons at 3-4 years old.

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Obviously, Reya, you missed the last sentence of my post which takes into account the children who are reading very early and will never be caught up with by the average child. I was simply responding to the post that early reading indicates giftedness by saying that it "may" indicate giftedness and it may not. In the study I read most of the children they tested ended up being hyperlexic so I agree with what you wrote...definitions truly do need to be defined so we are discussing the same thing. Many of us can shake their heads and sigh about the "levelling out" idea but the truth is that truly gifted kids are a small percentage of the population.

 

 

 

I understood your post. However, I'm saying that any study that makes such a claim can only do so by defining "reading" so broadly as to be meaningless. ANY child who is not hyperlexic who is a fluent reader before entering Kindergarten CANNOT, barring brain damage, "even out" by third grade. The chances that such a child would not test with a high IQ at 8 would be slim to none.

 

The study is incredibly dishonest to act as if those kinds of conclusions contain a carry-away message. It is an unsubtle attack on differentiation that does no one any good.

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The same goes with violin. Many people told me not to start her at 3yo because it would be a waste of time since kids level out. Now at 6yo she plays as well as kids 3-6 years older than her who also started lessons at 3-4 years old.

 

 

Gifted kids who start piano early don't level out during childhood. Ever. However, many kids who are put in violin do level out because they're not gifted. My personal rule in piano teaching is that I will teach a child younger than the age of five if they either go to the piano (since that's what I teach) and "practise" on their own (with no suggestion by the parents) virtually every day and have been for a long time (relative to the age), or show definite giftedness in music. I also prefer kids who are ready to read, but that's not hard and fast if they have been going to that piano on their own dayly

 

Although technically it's too soon to say she won't "level out" in violin, because if that happens it's by the age of 12, I think that given that she is gifted she probably won't. However, even those who do "level out" do it within a range since even with kids who aren't gifted in music, there are different levels of ability, work ethic, etc. The only ones she might "level out" with are other musically gifted dc who don't start until 6.

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