Looking for Parenting Advice Re Perseverance

[SeaConquest]

I'm trying to figure out how to approach issues that I am having with my oldest son (7). Sacha has never been tested, but I'm pretty confident that he is gifted. The issue that we are having is with perseverance in the face of a challenge. I am not a gritty person myself -- always gravitating to things that have come easily to me -- and I struggle with crippling anxiety and mood swings. I see so much of me in my son, and I feel torn between wanting to protect his fragile mental health (thanks, genetics) and helping to guide him in facing life's challenges.

 

Rather than suffering from the typical imposter syndrome of some of the kids on this board, Sacha seems to have the opposite issue: he often thinks that he is better at something than he is, and then wants to quit when things get tough (or he actually has to work a bit).

 

Some examples: wanting to make the "academy" (elite) soccer team, but then getting frustrated to the point of tears during practices when the other kids are better than him (and work harder/want it more) -- I eventually decided to keep him on the rec team. Wanting to play the guitar, but then dragging his feet when it is time to practice.

 

Lately, our issue is with math -- purportedly, one of his favorite and "best" subjects (he aspires to go to Epsilon Camp, but doesn't dream in math like they seem to want). He participated in a math competition last fall, and walked away with a gold medal because he was the only kid in his grade participating. Don't get me wrong: I was proud of him for participating, but I felt like the gold medal further contributed to the issue we are having. Riding on that confidence, Sacha begged me to sign him up for Math Kangaroo. I spoke with the director of our charter school, and got them to host it this year (for the first time). For the past week, we have been doing practice problems, and it has been meltdown after meltdown when we go over the problems that he missed.

 

He seems to do fine emotionally during the actual test, but, he goes fast, finishes early, doesn't write anything down (despite my repeated guidance to do so), and makes careless errors because he tries to hold everything in his head. The minute that he sees that he has missed problems, he tells me that he hates tests, and doesn't want to do MK.

 

I've reminded him that he asked to participate in MK, and that the school and I have bent over backwards to make it happen for him. I've also said that he never has do another math competition (or season of soccer, or year of guitar, etc.), but that we are going to finish what we started.

 

So, is this an age thing that will get better with more exposure to challenge? A personality thing that I shouldn't try to change? A parenting thing that requires more discipline? How would you approach a kid like this? While I want him to learn to be gritty, I'm petrified of him suffering from the debilitating anxiety that has wreaked havoc on my life if I push him too hard.

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts and experiences.

Edited March 7, 2016 by SeaConquest

[wintermom]

Sounds like he's a pretty normal person, in that doing stuff that is easy is a lot more fun than doing stuff that is hard and requires extra effort. I think you might be projecting a little too much of yourself onto his behaviour. He sounds like most of my dc and my dh. They don't like doing stuff that isn't fun and easy. (I don't particularly like doing unfun stuff, either, but I like to eat and live in a semi-clean house enough to get done what needs to get down.) Sure, they're bright and will get their work done, but I have to do some nagging and haggling. When the dc were younger, I had to work to make practicing music more fun. It's hard work to try to improve technique, read music, and work on what the teacher said to work on. Not many people really and truly enjoy doing hard work, but they learn self-discipline and how to grow from accompolishing valuable things.

Edited March 7, 2016 by wintermom

[Arcadia]

It is normal for that age to go for the easy way out or the easiest task :)

 

However perfectionism and anxiety can co-exist and can be hereditary so I don't think you are off for worrying.

 

My DS10 whines before the contests that he ask me to sign him up for but is excited right after the contests then whines when the results are out.

[nobeatenpath]

I feel you - we have this in spades with our son (and I was very similar). The new rule is that if you really want to do something (or think you do) there is a set commitment - if it is a class he has to commit to at least six months/a semester/a season. If it is a competition he has to see it through even if he decides he doesn't want to do it anymore. This has been a big thing here because a) our son suffers from anxiety and EF issues so it is a fine line between building grit and causing problems; b) his Dad doesn't really have the whole issue of lack of internal drive whereas I did (and still do) and honestly believe that part of it is my parents never really made me commit to anything as a kid, so we clash on this a bit.

 

The way you describe maths is like in this house - down to the rushing, silly errors and a favourite subject becoming not when it gets a little difficult. It is especially hard at that young age because I don't think most kids that age have the understanding that it is worth it to work through the hard stuff to get good enough to have fun with it.

 

 

With music - I have finally given up on trumpet, despite many tries.* He doesn't enjoy it because he has to practice, but is just not motivated enough to practice enough to make it fun. This was a big one for me because he is obviously talented, and I thought if he just had more discipline ... but I see now that with ballet, which is hard work for him, he is willing to put in the daily practice and work even though it is hard and he knows he has A LOT of work before he can get to doing 'the fun stuff'. And importantly - while the practice is not always fun, he wants to do it. He now wants to do singing, but finding a teacher here will be hard, and before I shell out for an online class or course we have to have a think about how much we are going to commit. If we do find a teacher, it will be the whole six months/set period thing again.

 

 

*Previously it was piano, which he would not practice. So he promised that he really wanted to learn trumpet, it would be different with trumpet, no really it was just he didn't like piano not that he wouldn't practice ....

Edited March 7, 2016 by nobeatenpath

[8filltheheart]

My competitive kids didn't get involved in any competitive academic activities until they were quite a bit older, 6th grade-ish. My daughters figure skated younger, but it was fun and my dd that took it seriously was talented and won w/o stress. My boys played local sports like soccer, but again non-stressful at age 7. Competitive soccer didn't really start until mggiddle school age.

 

I personally wouldn't take his reaction as anything other than being 7. Our parenting approach would be to drop competitive activities and let him be little boy for a while and just mature a couple of more yrs. 10-11 is a much different age experience than 7. But we aren't parents who want Olympic champions. We just want happy kids.

 

Fwiw, my physics and math geek ds hated competitions. He stopped after math counts in 7th-8th. The next competition he entered wasn't until a sr in high school. At that physics competition, he walked in as an individual, not on a team, not with a coach (just me and I certainly do not know any physics), and he placed first and won a full tuition scholarship.

 

Some kids just don't like participating in competition. Ds didn't really enjoy them. It didn't diminish his abilities at all. :)

Edited March 7, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[HomeAgain]

Definitely not a one size fits all approach, but I believe it has to be addressed in 3 parts:

 

1. how to calm down and take a break.  Encourage coming back to the activity and set times to do so, but force him to step away when he gets overly excited or upset and work through cool down methods.

 

2. accepting that mistakes are how we learn.  They are a baseline.  Be non-judgemental and matter of fact, or better, ask him to describe the mistake he sees. 

 

3. Focus on the next step.  "You did this.  What will you do to change that next time?"  Help him put plans in place, but don't tell him what to do.  At these times, he wouldn't be receptive to it and use it as another thing that everyone else is better at and he can't get.  He needs to push himself there.

 

Repeat 1-3 continually.

[SparklyUnicorn]

This sounds normal to me.  Humans generally seek the path of least resistance.  Some of what you describe is also probably the age. 

 

I've always tried to praise effort more than outcome.  It's difficult though because there have been many instances where the outcome was quite good, but required very little effort.  Although, I don't know if I can always truly be sure of what effort is required of someone else.  Only I know for myself what comes easily to me or not.  How that appears to other people might be something else altogether. 

 

So, I don't know.  I guess I don't have any advice other than to say he sounds pretty typical to me.

 

 

 

 

[Dmmetler]

What helped us most was cheer. They didn't always win (and 7 was when DD went from being on a team that had won state the prior year to one that didn't even place at regionals), but when she lost, it was as part of a team, so she had that support. She tended to assume that any loss was due to her alone, and having others say "no, I messed up, too" and seeing other girls who were also upset helped.

 

I will also say that we didn't start prepping for academic competitions until DD wanted to do so. Before then, it was more "Do you want to do this? OK, I'll sign you up", and we focused more on the social side of it-the chance to be in a room of kids who love math. I swear she did a lot of them between the ages of 8-10 for the purpose of the 15 or so minutes before and after the test when the kids often got to hang out together and just chat. We also did a lot of "Go out, have fun, and then we'll go get some ice cream".  Having said that, we're in an area where competitions just aren't a big deal in elementary school, so that worked. If we were in a more competitive area, it might make that harder.

 

I will also say that by 6th grade "just for fun" vanished. A lot of schools have teams and the teams stick together even at individual competitions. And when DD got to that level, she pretty much decided she was done. It's just not fun for her anymore. The math problems and practice papers are. The actual competition, where you have kids actively playing mindgames to cut down and demoralize others, not so much.  I suspect the fact that she's now very comfortable in the academic world as a researcher and presenter helps-because by the time you're presenting your research at conferences, it's no longer a zero sum game. Rather, it's more like all being on the same team.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SeaConquest]

This is all very helpful. Thank you all for taking the time to respond. We dropped the MK prep and went back to Beast this morning, and he is much happier. He wants to do the test, but I am definitely going to keep it low-key from here on out. 

 

My poor oldest is the guinea pig for all of my parenting mistakes!  :willy_nilly:

[SparklyUnicorn]

This is all very helpful. Thank you all for taking the time to respond. We dropped the MK prep and went back to Beast this morning, and he is much happier. He wants to do the test, but I am definitely going to keep it low-key from here on out. 

 

My poor oldest is the guinea pig for all of my parenting mistakes!  :willy_nilly:

 

I so know how you feel about that.

 

My older kid...poor kid...is the guinea pig for all my parenting mistakes too.  It's so weird.  I worry about every detail of everything he does.  I have to bite my tongue and chew on my desk to not be too hard on him because I know that is not fair (I was a first born).  And then there is my second kid who I just think "eh he'll be fine". 

 

It's like I know I do this, but I can't seem to get a different attitude about it. 

[wintermom]

 

 

2. accepting that mistakes are how we learn.  They are a baseline.  Be non-judgemental and matter of fact, or better, ask him to describe the mistake he sees. 

 

 

:iagree:   This! Especially with math, where mistakes are obvious. I'll actually cheer/react positively with errors, and tell the child that this is a wonderful learning opportunity to go back and really look closely on what is happening and why the mistakes are happening. 

[Dmmetler]

For awhile, I actually had a sticker award chart going for "making a mistake without melting down". That was right about at age 7, come to think of it. We used it not only in school stuff, but in tumbling class, too.

 

 

 

 

[wintermom]

For awhile, I actually had a sticker award chart going for "making a mistake without melting down". That was right about at age 7, come to think of it. We used it not only in school stuff, but in tumbling class, too.

 

Did you get a sticker for not melting down, too? ;)  Sometimes I need it myself more than the dc. I think a chocolate award for mommy sounds better, though, when mommy stays neutral and supportive and patient and all the things good teachers are supposed to be.  :laugh:

[lewelma]

My older boy was still playing 'shop' at 6.5, and never did a competition until he was basically forced into by the math camp.  He was 12.5 at the time.  At age 7, he could not handle competition AT ALL, including even playing a board game.  There were always tears.  For this boy, time was all that was required. 

 

For my younger, the issue is much broader, and I have been working for YEARS to build on his persistence and grit.  And we are finally reaping the rewards.  He is also 12.  For this boy, I spent a lot of time building grit through cooking and house cleaning and non-academic subjects.  At age 7 we had a paper chain around the ceiling of the family room that he earned a new ring for EACH subject he could do with a good attitude.  It was a very public recognition of his success, which was very hard won.  

 

As for math and writing everything down, I wrote a very long post on this issue that I will try to track down....

 

Ruth in NZ

 

ETA: found it. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/579528-need-to-get-dd-to-slow-down-and-write-neatly-inst-of-mental-math/

This was for a middle school aged kid, but it might get you thinking.  I wrote 2 very long posts based on my experiences working as a math tutor.  

 

 

Edited March 7, 2016 by lewelma

[ThoughtfulMama]

My 7-year-old was really helped by starting computer programming, first with Scratch and then Python.  The great thing that every programmer knows is that there is always trial and error to get things how you want them.  It certainly wont's work if your son isn't interested in this, but we have been able to relate it to other life situations too - "Remember when you couldn't get your program to do X, and you had to think about it for a couple of days and try different things? Let's do the same thing with this other thing you are working on."

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by ThoughtfulMama

[SeaConquest]

My 7-year-old was really helped by starting computer programming, first with Scratch and then Python.  The great thing that every programmer knows is that there is always trial and error to get things how you want them.  It certainly wont's work if your son isn't interested in this, but we have been able to relate it to other life situations too - "Remember when you couldn't get your program to do X, and you had to think about it for a couple of days and try different things? Let's do the same thing with this other thing you are working on."

 

Yes! We are finding programming to be a huge help. He has worked through the Super Scratch Programming Book with my DH, and recently started the Minecraft Modding class with Youth Digital (using Java). He is very interested in programming, so it's nice to have a subject where there is a high level of intrinsic motivation.

 

We have also had an update re guitar practice. His grandfather recently bought him an electric guitar, which has suddenly motivated him to practice much more.

[luuknam]

What I find sometimes helps is requiring just 5 min of practice (if it's something he might like - this doesn't work for absolute hate subjects, but would probably for e.g. guitar). It's hard getting started, but once started, it's much easier to keep going, so the required 5 min will often turn into 15 or 30 or more.

 

I also say that if you never make mistakes/never struggle, you're working on material that's too easy.

 

I do think a lot of it is the age though, as others have already said.