Possibly bringing home a rising 8th grader...I'm freaking a little.

[mymomtime]

Hi!  I'm a baby, infant homeschooler. 

 

 

I'm probably bringing my kindergartner home next year, and I feel like I've got my ducks in a row with him.

 

 

My now 7th grader, public schooled his whole little life, is seriously thinking about home schooling 8th grade.  (insert deep breathing) I’m a little freaked out.  I have told him we would figure it out if it was what he felt he needed or wanted.  Sometimes I think he gets pushed to the side and I want to show him I support him.  (Older sister involved in a lot of things and has a chronic condition; little brother is very bright and the baby of the family)

 

 

 

We talked about how it wasn't going to be easy to come home.  It was still going to be school work, and there would still be things he didn't like and things that would be hard.  We talked about how he would have to get some school work done independently and not just play all day.

 

He mostly doesn't like school.  He doesn't find any relevance to any of the work they are doing.  He is bored, not turning in some work because he finds it stupid.  He hates math, yet could probably be good at it.  He was placed in a horrible "gifted" class in 4th and 5th grades and I feel he missed some pretty basic foundational math skills, he agrees with this. And he is struggling in math.  He LOVES science and video games!  He is horrible at spelling and his writing could use definite improvement.  He reads very well, but doesn’t like to read, unless it is about video games, non-fiction science, or other non-fiction subjects he is interested in. 

 

 

There wouldn’t be a lot in our budget for expensive out-sourced classes or curriculum.  And having never done homeschooling, and with high school right around the corner,

 

 

I don’t know what the plan for high school would be; I’d like to just take it year by year.  My son and I also talked about taking 2 years to do 8^th grade.  He is on the young side in his grade (Summer Birthday), so it wouldn’t be that big of a deal except for his friends who are all in his current grade.

 

 

Our high school does have a pretty good STEM program from what I hear.  BUT he needs to get his math foundation a little stronger, in my opinion.  After-schooling isn’t an option with this kid.  He needs that down-time after school to recharge. He has really resisted it in the past.

 

 

I don’t even know where to begin with him, if the decision is made for him to stay home next year.  The only subject I have figured out would be history; he would join his brother in Ancients doing Wayfarers.  

 

 

Any suggestions on where to begin?  Things for me to read (I skimmed  WTM logic stage last night.)?  Things for him to read and consider?  Help?

[nannyaunt]

if I were going to outsource anything I would look at the WTMA math that does AOPS and Singapore.

[wapiti]

Note that there is a Logic Stage board under K-8 that contains many discussions for this grade level.  You'll get your ducks in a row for 8th soon enough.  It sounds like you will enjoy the ability to custom-fit his academics, especially with math, filling in holes and then getting him the depth and advancement that may ultimately suit him best.

 

Do start reading the high school board soon, though, as that's a much bigger nut to crack.  You may want to look into what would happen if you started high school homeschooling and then wanted to enroll in the PS - IIRC, there are places where that can't be done.

 

One of my 7th graders is begging to homeschool right now.  So far I've said no, waiting for him to give me a good reason, as the academics he's getting right now are fairly decent.

[Critterfixer]

Well, you really jumped into the deep end, didn't you?! :laugh: I don't feel competent to advise for eighth grade. I've just got my two going into seventh this year at home. However, I do want to suggest that you post concerning your eighth grader over on the Logic Board. We also have a number of threads going there right now on curriculum for various grades, including eighth grade.

Right now might be a good time to place him in a math curriculum. You might get various placements tests that he should take, not only to find out where he is in math, but also to find out what he can stand. It's pretty important, IMO, for an older child to be cooperative when the going gets tough, and it helps to find out if there is something that he just can't stand so that you don't end up stuck with something awful all the way through.

Another thing that would probably be useful is for you to be going over his work for school right now. That could give you some ideas of what skills in writing he needs to work on. He's going to have to get used to Mom checking his work, and offering suggestions as to how it may be improved. He needs to be able to handle that with some grace. That isn't always easy. But it is a useful skill to work on.

[Kiara.I]

If he's weak in math right now, I don't know that AOPS would be a good fit for him.

It really might be worth using a program that you can accelerate quickly and go back as far as he needs to, to get the foundations shored up.

[Miss Mousie]

I started homeschooling DS at the beginning of 8th grade.  Linked below is a thread I started about two years prior to pulling him from PS.

 

 http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/466232-if-you-came-late-to-homeschooling-please-tell-me-about-it/?hl=%2Bladies&do=findComment&comment=4868619

 

The two most difficult challenges so far have been (1) meeting DS's social needs, and (2) butting heads over work not done or not meeting explicit expectations. 

 

The two most rewarding results so far have been (1) a FAR better relationship, and (2) much more interesting, higher-quality input than he could ever get at a local PS.

 

 

[Momto6inIN]

I started hs'ing when my oldest was in 8th grade. That first year I also had a 6th grader, a 4th grader, a K'er, and a toddler. If I can do that, and I'm definitely nothing special, you can surely do 8th grade and K. :)

 

If you've already talked to him about expectations and what it might actually look like and he's still interested, that's the biggest hurdle. You can do a great job without expensive, fancy curriculum and outsourcing. Focus on math and writing, especially if those are areas he is weak in, and he'll be prepared for whatever you and he decide for high school. If he likes science and reading nonfiction, let science and history be more interest led and relaxed so he has time to focus the hard work on the core areas of math and writing this first year and still have the down time he needs.

[HeWillSoar]

I started homeschooling when my son was in 8th grade.  This is our second year, and it's been hard but so worth it for what it's done for him.  He was really struggling in public school--way behind in math and writing.  Testing has showed that he has made tremendous progress.  He was tested in public school, and I've been doing the same tests so I can compare.  He has been very cooperative for the most part.  He never wants to go to public school again! I have found countless social opportunities if he was so inclined. There is even a homeschool school by us where he could take classes or join a club.  It has been a great decision for us.  He will more than likely go to a community college after high school so I don't feel too much pressure to make sure he has advanced classes or calculus, etc.  He is where he is, and I am just trying to get his basic skills caught up as much as possible and being in public school, that would not have happened because he was getting passed by. He was not the type where I could after school him either. 

 

Now my youngest was in 5th grade when we started.  He was the gifted type--so bored in school.  The first year was a challenge with him and his behavior and I constantly doubted the decision to homeschool him.  This year is so much better.  I think he's just matured, and I've found what works for him. 

 

So for curriculum, CLE works great with my child who struggles in math.  There is a lot of repetition.   Math Mammoth is what I use for the one who "gets" math easily.   Yes, The Well Trained Mind book is a good one. I also like the Julie Bogart periscopes because it helps me to find a balance and not be too serious all the time.  For science, in 8th grade you could probably just do something interest led.

[Sahamamama]

Actually, I would not spend time on the high school board at this point, since you may not even need to cross that bridge. For me, the thought of homeschooling high school is overwhelming, and we've been doing this from the beginning (Pre-K). If I was new to homeschooling, unless I had a high schooler, I would steer clear of the high school boards (at least for now)! :scared:

 

I like your idea to spread out the work over two years, allowing for more time for your son to mature, strengthen relationships, and pursue his interests. If you were to configure a two-year "middle school," this would also give both of you time to build solid skills in essential academic areas: Math, Reading, Composition, Grammar, Spelling, General Knowledge (Science, History, Literature, Geography), and Work Habits & Attitudes.

 

Since he's struggling in math (and knows he is), perhaps you can use this time to administer placement tests for several different math programs -- CLE Sunrise Math, Saxon, Math-U-See. CLE Math is easy to accelerate and the lessons are (mostly) directed to the student. Try to pin down which math you both think is best, and don't worry about where he places (that is, what level). It's better to be solid in math than fast.

 

For composition, some options may be Writing with Ease/Writing with Skill or Classical Writing (give him the placement tests). If he struggles with writing, I would not begin with WWS, but start with Level 3 or 4 of WWE (you only need to do one or the other, not both).

 

For spelling, you may want to look into All About Spelling or Phonetic Zoo. If he struggles with spelling, I'm not sure I'd begin with Phonetic Zoo, though. You could begin All About Spelling at Level 1, and perhaps complete several levels in 1-2 years. IMO, this would be a more solid foundation than a "list" approach to spelling.

 

For grammar, take a look at Rod & Staff English, CLE Language, Hake Grammar, or even FLL Levels 3 & 4. If your son completed First Language Lessons Levels 3 & 4 in the next two school years, he would have more grammar mastered than most high school graduates. :) If he wants to study a world language in high school, this grammar study will help him immensely.

 

General knowledge can be built in a variety of ways -- you wouldn't necessarily have to have courses for science, history, literature, and geography. Ready-made courses might make these subjects much easier to implement, but then you'd have to devote time to them. How much will you be available to teach? If your son needs to focus on math and writing skills to be better prepared for high school, then you might want to spend most of your teaching time on those skills and let him build general knowledge more independently through other means -- online courses, assigned reading, free reading, library browsing, hands-on projects, audiobooks, documentaries, Teaching Company (Great Books) video courses, internet sites, exhibits, field trips, and so on. I wouldn't pour all my energy into teaching these things and then be too exhausted to teach math and writing.

 

The best thing I know for building reading fluency is to read aloud together, often, and to discuss what is being read. Explain words and concepts he doesn't know in language he does understand. To build vocabulary, you might also want to take a look at Wordly Wise 3000. I was a little skeptical that it would build my children's vocabulary, but I have witnessed its effectiveness firsthand. I'm sold on it.

 

As for work habits and attitudes, well... time will tell, LOL. You will certainly get to know each other in new ways! ;) When I tutored boys, I always insisted that they wash their hands (with water! with soap!) before beginning their tutor time. :leaving: So you can imagine how the rest of the session went, LOL. I got good results with those batches of boys, though, so I stand by my convictions. I loved them, and they knew it, but they had to mind me!

 

Disclaimer: I don't have boys, and I don't have any 7th graders, but for years I tutored boys at or near this level -- and I think that slow and steady growth in the academic basics (and practical life basics) is the best approach for boys this age. HTH.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Sahamamama

[Critterfixer]

 

Actually, I would not spend time on the high school board at this point, since you may not even need to cross that bridge. For me, the thought of homeschooling high school is overwhelming, and we've been doing this from the beginning (Pre-K). If I was new to homeschooling, unless I had a high schooler, I would steer clear of the high school boards (at least for now)!  :scared:

 

Especially at night! It's scary at night. :svengo:

[Tiramisu]

I had an 8th grader come home this year. 

 

It helped that I had clear goals for her. First, I wanted to firm up her math foundation before high school because she had struggled in math in public middle school. Second, I wanted to reignite her love of learning. Third, I knew she didn't get grammar in ps and wouldn't get it if she went out to high school, so grammar was also a goal.

 

To meet these goals, I decided on CLE math, which I had a good experience with before with another child. I knew it would fill in other gaps. I just started at the last light units for the 700 level since I had them left over. Now she's finishing 805, and next week we'll be moving on to Saxon. As I said, in ps she didn't do well in math, but I had her evaluated in December after using CLE for a few months and she tested the highest in math applications, grade levels ahead, in fact. So CLE is doing what I needed it to do.

 

I also decided to use Easy Grammar...since I had it on a shelf. I knew it wasn't too complicated but would cover the basics that I needed it to in the year we had. This is always something she asks to do, along with CLE math. We talk about the sentences a lot and I ask more than the book does to get the most out of it.

 

History, science, and lit are completely interest led. We're doing a few of the elementary Apologia books and she really enjoys them. They have definitely captured her interest. Yes, they are not rigorous for an 8th grader, but they sparked a wonderful interest in science. 

 

She's a good writer but I haven't found one curriculum that I like. We've done a general text that wasn't really working, then did some outlining, now we're doing Killgallon, which she likes well enough. I'm thinking I might try WWS next since I have it and it covers some of the summarizing skills I want her to work on before high school. 

[Momto6inIN]

Actually, I would not spend time on the high school board at this point, since you may not even need to cross that bridge. For me, the thought of homeschooling high school is overwhelming, and we've been doing this from the beginning (Pre-K). If I was new to homeschooling, unless I had a high schooler, I would steer clear of the high school boards (at least for now)! :scared:

 

 

:iagree:

 

Totally!

[MarkT]

For Math you should be looking for a solid Pre-Algebra class! Probably not AoPS.

If he will learn from math videos should have lots of curricula to pick from without total outsourcing.

 

try these for specific references

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/forum/19-logic-stage-middle-grade-challenges/

 

and

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/forum/3-k-8-curriculum-board/

[MarkT]

I had an 8th grader come home this year. 

 

It helped that I had clear goals for her. First, I wanted to firm up her math foundation before high school because she had struggled in math in public middle school. Second, I wanted to reignite her love of learning. Third, I knew she didn't get grammar in ps and wouldn't get it if she went out to high school, so grammar was also a goal.

 

To meet these goals, I decided on CLE math, which I had a good experience with before with another child. I knew it would fill in other gaps. I just started at the last light units for the 700 level since I had them left over. Now she's finishing 805, and next week we'll be moving on to Saxon. As I said, in ps she didn't do well in math, but I had her evaluated in December after using CLE for a few months and she tested the highest in math applications, grade levels ahead, in fact. So CLE is doing what I needed it to do.

 

I also decided to use Easy Grammar...since I had it on a shelf. I knew it wasn't too complicated but would cover the basics that I needed it to in the year we had. This is always something she asks to do, along with CLE math. We talk about the sentences a lot and I ask more than the book does to get the most out of it.

 

History, science, and lit are completely interest led. We're doing a few of the elementary Apologia books and she really enjoys them. They have definitely captured her interest. Yes, they are not rigorous for an 8th grader, but they sparked a wonderful interest in science. 

 

She's a good writer but I haven't found one curriculum that I like. We've done a general text that wasn't really working, then did some outlining, now we're doing Killgallon, which she likes well enough. I'm thinking I might try WWS next since I have it and it covers some of the summarizing skills I want her to work on before high school. 

Has anyone put out PreAlgebra comparisons like we have for High School Math?

[Loesje22000]

Has anyone put out PreAlgebra comparisons like we have for High School Math?

Something like this?

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/342798-pre-algebra-fence-straddlers-master-thread/page-1?hl=+straddler

[Ellie]

I would not take two years to do 8th. I say this as someone with a July birthday, married to someone who has a September birthday who started kindergarten when he was 4. In fact, I had never heard that a child with a summer birthday was "young" until I started posting here on the WTM forum. :-)

 

[Alte Veste Academy]

I would not take two years to do 8th. I say this as someone with a July birthday, married to someone who has a September birthday who started kindergarten when he was 4. In fact, I had never heard that a child with a summer birthday was "young" until I started posting here on the WTM forum. :-)

You certainly shouldn't feel obliged to answer this, but how old are you? When you were a child, what was testing like? Did you have finger painting, lots of recess, and naps in kindergarten? How Long was your school day? Three hours? Four? Seven? Times have changed.

 

Kids are getting "younger" these days because standards are being shoved down into lower grades. Yes, that doesn't necessarily have to matter as much for homeschooling, but it certainly matters in public school. My boys in particular (bright boys!) would have sunk in public K at five. And there is sometimes a great benefit, even for homeschoolers, in letting a kid mature and have some breathing room for an additional year.

 

OP, if your son is on board with an extra year, go for it! You can track 8th as if it is 9th in case plans change later.

[Ellie]

You certainly shouldn't feel obliged to answer this, but how old are you? When you were a child, what was testing like? Did you have finger painting, lots of recess, and naps in kindergarten? How Long was your school day? Three hours? Four? Seven? Times have changed.

 

Kids are getting "younger" these days because standards are being shoved down into lower grades. Yes, that doesn't necessarily have to matter as much for homeschooling, but it certainly matters in public school. My boys in particular (bright boys!) would have sunk in public K at five. And there is sometimes a great benefit, even for homeschoolers, in letting a kid mature and have some breathing room for an additional year.

 

OP, if your son is on board with an extra year, go for it! You can track 8th as if it is 9th in case plans change later.

 

But we aren't talking about a young child. I wouldn't make this *homeschooled* child take two years to get through one year's worth of school work because he has a summer birthday. That doesn't even make sense.

[Alte Veste Academy]

But we aren't talking about a young child. I wouldn't make this *homeschooled* child take two years to get through one year's worth of school work because he has a summer birthday. That doesn't even make sense.

Doesn't make sense to you. I have seen you bring up the summer birthday issue in threads discussing younger kids as well, which is one reason I quoted you here.

 

In reference to this specific thread, the child in question has been in ps his whole life. If he was "young" for his grade all along (which over the past seven years has had meaning and consequences), maybe he could use a year of breathing room. Lots of kids in school have had years dealing with sink or swim, feeling like their heads are barely above water. And that's forgetting any enjoyment education should bring. Giving a child some extra time to gain traction can be a great gift. And anyway, as I tell my kids, they have decades to be an adult but relatively few years for youth.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Alte Veste Academy

[Sahamamama]

You certainly shouldn't feel obliged to answer this, but how old are you? When you were a child, what was testing like? Did you have finger painting, lots of recess, and naps in kindergarten? How Long was your school day? Three hours? Four? Seven? Times have changed.

 

Kids are getting "younger" these days because standards are being shoved down into lower grades. Yes, that doesn't necessarily have to matter as much for homeschooling, but it certainly matters in public school. My boys in particular (bright boys!) would have sunk in public K at five. And there is sometimes a great benefit, even for homeschoolers, in letting a kid mature and have some breathing room for an additional year.

 

OP, if your son is on board with an extra year, go for it! You can track 8th as if it is 9th in case plans change later.

 

 

Doesn't make sense to you. I have seen you bring up the summer birthday issue in threads discussing younger kids as well, which is one reason I quoted you here.

 

In reference to this specific thread, the child in question has been in ps his whole life. If he was "young" for his grade all along (which over the past seven years has had meaning and consequences), maybe he could use a year of breathing room. Lots of kids in school have had years dealing with sink or swim, feeling like their heads are barely above water. And that's forgetting any enjoyment education should bring. Giving a child some extra time to gain traction can be a great gift. And anyway, as I tell my kids, they have decades to be an adult but relatively few years for youth.

 

 

I can't agree enough!

 

Ellie, it's not really about "taking two years to get through one year's worth of school work." I agree with you there, that "just" having a summer birthday is not enough reason to stretch out one year's worth of work into two. But this is something else entirely.

 

When I tutored these "Summer Birthday Boys" -- for they were all summer birthdays, and they were nearly all boys (I had one girl in all that time) -- what I saw was what AVA mentioned, the years of "sink or swim" in school. Mostly, it was sink.

 

And so, I had 4th, 5th, and 6th graders who had not been explicitly taught so many basics of actual academics. Like cursive penmanship (though they were expected to use it, but truly had not been taught it), or their multiplication facts (though they were expected to use these, but clearly had not achieved mastery), or their parts of speech (though they were expected to write daily in their "journals," usually about touchy-feely topics). And, these kids had abysmal General Knowledge. Just awful. Why? Even though many of them could read, they chose not to read on their free time (what little of it they had), and most were never read to, not even by their teachers. None of them could spell at all.

 

These kids were trapped in this never-ending cycle of being SO TIRED at school because they were not getting exercise and rest after school, because they HAD SO MUCH HOMEWORK that took them FOREVER to do, and they had so much work at home because they were SO TIRED at school. Literally, some of these kids just fell asleep in school, and it had nothing to do with attitude. It was exhaustion.

 

The "two years for 8th grade" suggestion is really saying, "Take the time it takes to lay the foundation he needs." It is Middle School. It is the child's last chance (before transcripts kick in) to grasp what has eluded him, to become more solid on the skills and concepts and habits that will shape the rest of his academic and professional life. Why rush this? Some kids need more time before starting high school level work. Wouldn't you agree that we are not all the same?

 

One other thing I noticed about the boys I tutored -- as they grew, and their bodies matured, these boys came into their own. The boys who started out with me in 4th or 5th, little "skinny butt" boys who could not put their behinds on the seat because they didn't have any padding (LOL), became strapping young men. I have seen several of them as young adults, and it has been good to see. They shocked me, actually, in how well they turned out, because they were so, so woefully behind in later elementary.

 

If a boy can have a chance to mature, rest, exercise, work, converse, explore, tinker, contribute, and learn -- isn't that worth taking an extra year, if necessary? Again, it's not lining up "one year's worth" of work and stretching it out over two. Instead, it's taking the time to back up, if needed, and make those later elementary skills solid, before moving on to the work of preparing for high school. If he needs two years to get there, who are we to say no?

 

Ellie, I think you have a sensitivity to the mention of summer birthdays that seems to trigger this standard response from you every time. You might want to consider that for some students, their age -- and the struggles they have encountered related to this -- may be a valid aspect of their situation, and not so easily dismiss it.

[Ellie]

 

 

Ellie, I think you have a sensitivity to the mention of summer birthdays that seems to trigger this standard response from you every time. You might want to consider that for some students, their age -- and the struggles they have encountered related to this -- may be a valid aspect of their situation, and not so easily dismiss it.

 

Of course I have a standard response. All of us have standard responses to things. :-)

 

I especially have a standard response for homeschoolers, who are not tied to September-through-May school years, so to say that a child with a "summer birthday" is "young" just doesn't make sense.

[Sahamamama]

Of course I have a standard response. All of us have standard responses to things. :-)

 

I especially have a standard response for homeschoolers, who are not tied to September-through-May school years, so to say that a child with a "summer birthday" is "young" just doesn't make sense.

 

Did you even read the OP's first post, or anything else on the thread? This boy has been public schooled his whole life, so for him, the context has not been homeschooling. And, in his context of public school, with dates and cut-offs, yes, he has been young (compared to many of his class mates) -- a fact which may have affected his experience there, and may also impact how the parents decide to proceed with his homeschooling from this point onward.

 

But since homeschoolers don't need to be tied to September-through-May school years, then neither do homeschoolers need to be tied to anyone's expectations of what to do when.

[Ellie]

Did you even read the OP's first post, or anything else on the thread? This boy has been public schooled his whole life, so for him, the context has not been homeschooling. And, in his context of public school, with dates and cut-offs, yes, he has been young (compared to many of his class mates) -- a fact which may have affected his experience there, and may also impact how the parents decide to proceed with his homeschooling from this point onward.

 

But since homeschoolers don't need to be tied to September-through-May school years, then neither do homeschoolers need to be tied to anyone's expectations of what to do when.

 

Yes, I did.

[LisaKinVA]

Jumping into the fray :D

 

Welcome to the wonderful, exciting, confusing, and slightly intimidating world of homeschooling -- and homeschooling very different ages.

 

The part that will have you tearing your hair out with an unmotivated boy...is the unmotivated.  Hopefully, there are some things in which he's interested that you can build his school year around, but you're right, some of it isn't going to be fun, and there will still be hard work.

 

There are lots of excellent math programs out there -- if his math foundation is weak, I'd like to suggest Chalkdust Basic Math (the sticker price is not cheap, but there are ways to put it together for much, much less), perhaps working through that over the summer, and then moving into Pre-Algebra as soon as he's ready.  There are probably many concepts Basic Math covers that you could skim, so the program would be easy to compact.  You could also look into doing some Life of Fred, simply because many kids love the way it's presented.  My younger son is doing Basic Math 5 days a week and Life of Fred 3 days a week (Fred is pretty short and compact).  The video lessons for Chalkdust are simply the best I've seen.  The math is solid, and has a progression that will ease your way through high school.  My older son is using Precalculus, and we will begin Calculus in the fall.  

 

English, I'd honestly look at Michael Clay Thompson Voyage for Grammar -- the presentation will be much more relaxed, no work books, and fairly painless to go through.  It will demand some time from you.  A straight-forward vocabulary (maybe Wordly-Wise online) would be helpful as well.  For composition, that's a tough one for me...only because we've had really good success with Writing With Skill.  Some people have difficulty with it, because many of the reading passages are dry as dirt.  But, the instruction is solid and easy to follow.  Reading...definitely some good books (maybe audio books, too), to read, or if need-be a textbook (I have one child who did very well with a Lit textbook, not as well with books.  He found it easier to guage his time with a textbook, I found it easier to gauge his progress at that point).

 

For science and history, I'd allow some picking and choosing of direction.  What has he studied, is there something that interests him?  Has he had any keyboarding, maybe some computer course in Word, Excel, PowerPoint?  There are a lot of interesting things he can  explore -- if he has no idea, you may have to prompt some discussion.