MSNative Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) This has been all over my fb feed lately. As a mom of boys a lot of it resonated with me and what I've seen with my boys. Some comments criticized it for saying that female accomplishments were all feeling based. I guess I see that but didn't really take that from it. Curious what the hive thinks about it. https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/995271883849001/ Edited February 9, 2016 by MSNative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm confused. The link took me to a video about how the current education system is overtly feminized and that boys aren't succeeding. I didn't see anything about bullying. Or did I miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Got it. I would like to see more young men choosing to become teachers, especially early education teachers. This is anecdotal but the elementary schools in our town have about a 99% female staff. The principals are female; the secretaries are female; the teachers are female; the lunch staff is female. The majority of 'specials' teachers - art, PE, music- are female. The only position that is predominantly male is janitorial. In our district, a student can go 6 (K-5) years without seeing a male authority figure, teacher or otherwise. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Gee I don't know. I have two boys and no girls. With my older kid, he wouldn't have had issues I don't think. With my younger kid, oh yes. Even now. He has a hard time sitting still. He needs to be active. The whole sitting at a desk for 7 hours a day would probably kill him. In terms of the instruction, I don't really know what it is like these days. So I can't comment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Heigh ho- I'm glad people where you are aren't being targeted for stupid stuff. Sadly a quick google search returns way too many instances of zero tolerance run amok. Here is just the first result I got. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/zero-tolerance-policies-schools_b_819594.html I didn't see that video as encouraging bullying nor do I think that boys being boys is code for bullying. So you disagree with the video? Which parts? That difference between learning styles that they listed? The current situation in school? The suggested changes? Just trying to figure out so I can understand your point of view better. Edited February 9, 2016 by MSNative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Heigh ho- I'm glad people where you are aren't being targeted for stupid stuff. Sadly a quick google search returns way too many instances of zero tolerance run amok. Here is just the first result I got. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/zero-tolerance-policies-schools_b_819594.html I didn't see that video as encouraging bullying nor do I think that boys being boys is code for bullying. So you disagree with the video? Which parts? That difference between learning styles that they listed? The current situation in school? The suggested changes? Just trying to figure out so I can understand your point of view better. What I do know related to this is that in my area they have lightened up, recently, on the zero tolerance stuff. They were finding that too many young kids were being suspended for dumb stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I read some stat that 1 in 4 students was being suspended 1 or more times in a year. That's crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Got it. I would like to see more young men choosing to become teachers, especially early education teachers. This is anecdotal but the elementary schools in our town have about a 99% female staff. The principals are female; the secretaries are female; the teachers are female; the lunch staff is female. The majority of 'specials' teachers - art, PE, music- are female. The only position that is predominantly male is janitorial. In our district, a student can go 6 (K-5) years without seeing a male authority figure, teacher or otherwise. We do need more. But we've got quite a few locally. The vice-principal in K-2 is male and my son now has a male teacher in 3rd grade (one of two male third grade teachers. I think there are 4 female. Maybe 3.) It's been good for him. There are more male teachers walking the hallways than I remember seeing in elementary growing up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I hated it. I'm glad it wasn't being shared on my FB. Then again, I loathe Christina Hoff Summers. I like, ugh, is that... yep. The presumption underlying the whole thing was that boys should be allowed to be rowdy and loud. I'm sorry, but "boys will be boys" is a horrible excuse for allowing boys to bully. It's not a positive that I want to see go back into schools. Good grief. Most of the things that would help Summers's idea of "boys" are things that would help all kids. Offering a wider array of reading options, doing more hands on education, getting rid of zero tolerance, having more movement and play time... it's good for ALL kids. Why must we be so gendered about our expectations? Sorry... I feel like I want to say something more articulate but the whole condescension of the piece made me want to scream. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I hated it. I'm glad it wasn't being shared on my FB. Then again, I loathe Christina Hoff Summers. I like, ugh, is that... yep. The presumption underlying the whole thing was that boys should be allowed to be rowdy and loud. I'm sorry, but "boys will be boys" is a horrible excuse for allowing boys to bully. It's not a positive that I want to see go back into schools. Good grief. Most of the things that would help Summers's idea of "boys" are things that would help all kids. Offering a wider array of reading options, doing more hands on education, getting rid of zero tolerance, having more movement and play time... it's good for ALL kids. Why must we be so gendered about our expectations? Sorry... I feel like I want to say something more articulate but the whole condescension of the piece made me want to scream. I agree. Even the whole thing about needing to be active. I don't think this is a boy only thing. It does seem like more boys have a harder time sitting still, but I have one boy who definitely has no trouble sitting still. My husband does not either. But then there are certainly girls who hate sitting still too. I feel the same frustrations when people say there are these huge gender differences. But then I do encounter them sometimes. So I don't know what is true or not. I suspect there are just people differences. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 We had the good fortune for our son to attend a very good elementary school, but the suppression of basic boy-energy was not ideal when one has a boy-boy (like I do). I think it is a legitimate problem. Bill 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Ok, I went back and rewatched. Where are yall getting that this video is saying that bullying is good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 What is funny to me about this issue is that originally the school system was set up for boys, and then people started demanding equal education for girls who could compete, and now that girls have shown that they can compete AND WIN, people are calling the system sexist and demanding that it change. Now, I think everyone should get a good and appropriate education, but moving the criteria because girls have beat boys at their own game strikes me as a bit questionable and more than a little ironic. We shouldn't move the bar because it's bad for boys. We should instead move it because it's not educating everyone well. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Ok, I went back and rewatched. Where are yall getting that this video is saying that bullying is good? Yeah I didn't get that either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 What is funny to me about this issue is that originally the school system was set up for boys, and then people started demanding equal education for girls who could compete, and now that girls have shown that they can compete AND WIN, people are calling the system sexist and demanding that it change. Now, I think everyone should get a good and appropriate education, but moving the criteria because girls have beat boys at their own game strikes me as a bit questionable and more than a little ironic. We shouldn't move the bar because it's bad for boys. We should instead move it because it's not educating everyone well. Yes exactly. When I was younger I heard all about how I was being short changed as a girl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 What is funny to me about this issue is that originally the school system was set up for boys, and then people started demanding equal education for girls who could compete, and now that girls have shown that they can compete AND WIN, people are calling the system sexist and demanding that it change. Now, I think everyone should get a good and appropriate education, but moving the criteria because girls have beat boys at their own game strikes me as a bit questionable and more than a little ironic. We shouldn't move the bar because it's bad for boys. We should instead move it because it's not educating everyone well. So you don't believe that schools made any changes to help girls do better in school? Btw- I certainly agree that we should be working to move the bar to educated everyone better. And most improvements would help all kids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I feel the same frustrations when people say there are these huge gender differences. But then I do encounter them sometimes. So I don't know what is true or not. I suspect there are just people differences. I have one very low energy boy and one middling energetic boy. Both loved and love fiction. The eldest placed in a national poetry competition. I think it's important to give children time to run about, a variety of reading materials, freedom to write the stories they like...... But all this stuff about 'how boys are' just seems unhelpful to me. It could easily lead to a boy like Calvin being steered towards non-fiction and rugby, because 'that's what boys like'. Edited February 9, 2016 by Laura Corin 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I agree with the sentiment. I think way too much focus is put on academics at too young of an age, and there is not enough exercise or nature. I think what boys, and people in general tend to lack most is purpose. I don't think academics should take more than 3-5 hours until at least seventh grade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Schools can go overboard. In my son's K class, the only hands on stuff was for the teacher. We had a parent/teacher/psychiatrist conference because of a picture my kid drew: planes shooting missiles and people on the ground shooting back at the plane. Blood and dead bodies. Now, the child went to a military-only school. I was confused as to why it was such a big deal. Recesses are being cut. When I was a kid, we had 45 minutes for lunch, plus a morning and afternoon recess of 15 minutes each. Even in high school we had a morning break period of 15 minutes, and a 45 minute lunch. We also had an open campus for 2nd grade and up. You could, with a permission slip, bike home for lunch, eat, and bike back. Or eat at school, where you could talk with friends, and still have half an hour on the playground. It's now down to 25 minutes, enough for the kids to wolf down food so they can play. (I'd love to see reverse lunch in more schools, where they play first, eat second!). They get a total of 45 minutes of free time. Meals suck. The mandatory breakfast here has at least twice the amount of sugar an adult has in a day. Pump a kid up on that first thing and yeah, you get problems. Days are longer. Electives are pushed to once a week/month. A lot of class time is testing and testing prep. Kindergarteners go through 22 assessments their first month, another set in Dec, and another set in the spring. K used to be half day. It's full. Free time is a lot less. You are expected to be ON for the 8 hours in school. Plus do homework. These all contribute to a non-boy friendly environment. They don't sit for long periods, they need exercise, they need appropriate level instruction. I'd totally advocate the same for the girls. They may look like they handle it better, but they're getting shafted, too. And I really think a lot of this stems from adults needing to feel needed. It's not enough to have kids working through play - they have to feel like they're doing something directly to make the process happen. It's where we get the stupid projects, the parent-centered homework, the assessments...adults aren't learning their roles properly and the kids suffer in the process. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 This has been all over my fb feed lately. As a mom of boys a lot of it resonated with me and what I've seen with my boys. Some comments criticized it for saying that female accomplishments were all feeling based. I guess I see that but didn't really take that from it. Curious what the hive thinks about it. https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/995271883849001/ On the one hand, the sheer lack of male role models and teachers in schools is a huge issue for boys. Add to that the fact that the timeline is very girl-based because "if half the kids can do it they all should be able to with help" and I agree that you have an environment that is hugely unfriendly to boys. I also think some teachers are just plain sexist. BUT I hate how they frame it in such a "boys and girls are sooooo different biologically so we must make schools boy friendly too" instead of, "this system has many, many issues and a lot of kids aren't thriving, particularly boys but from both sexes and all racial and socio-economic groups, so let's do something". So I agree with both sides, kind of. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Ok, I went back and rewatched. Where are yall getting that this video is saying that bullying is good? To me, "boys will be boys" - a line she used in the tag and, IIRC, toward the start, is a line that is always associated with excusing inappropriate behavior by boys - violence, destruction, bullying, etc. That's the tie in for me. Also, Christina Hoff Sommers has come out - I'm not kidding here - in favor of "normal teasing" before. She for reals thinks bullying is good for kids. You know, to toughen them up and make sure they're not sissies or gay or anything "bad." Ugh. She disgusts me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 To be clear, everything she suggests in there is positive. And the problems she finds are problems. They're just not gendered problems. Her framing of the issue annoys me to no end. Not helpful. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 On the one hand, the sheer lack of male role models and teachers in schools is a huge issue for boys. Add to that the fact that the timeline is very girl-based because "if half the kids can do it they all should be able to with help" and I agree that you have an environment that is hugely unfriendly to boys. I also think some teachers are just plain sexist. BUT I hate how they frame it in such a "boys and girls are sooooo different biologically so we must make schools boy friendly too" instead of, "this system has many, many issues and a lot of kids aren't thriving, particularly boys but from both sexes and all racial and socio-economic groups, so let's do something". So I agree with both sides, kind of. I agree with you. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Kids that need it should have time to move and run and shake things off between lessons. Boys and girls. Those would thrive on other sorts of "breaks" between lessons should have their opportunities too. When I was at school and would hear the Principal chastising kids, "there's no running on the playground." it felt (to me) like the scene in Dr Strangelove where they say "Gentlemen you can't fight in here! This is the War-room." Sometimes I would shout, "There's no playing on the playground!" Not sure if the powers-that-be understood if that was commentary, or not :D Bill Edited February 10, 2016 by Spy Car 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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