Book a Week 2016 - BW6: Side Trip to Burma

[PeacefulChaos]

#15: The Last Battle by C.S. Lewis.  It was... odd.  From start to finish it was odd.  I didn't dislike it, but I didn't love it either.  It was just odd.

 

I just have to chime in and say I absolutely LOVE that book!  I think it's definitely one of my favorite Narnia books.  Link is reading through the series now - I read them to the boys when they were younger, and I just realized I haven't started them with Pink yet!  Maybe soon.  :)

 

Which actually brings me to another reason I was posting:  Good kids books!  Well, he's a kid but not a little kid.  Link is 12.  (HOW THE BLOODY HECK DID I GET A TWELVE YEAR OLD ALREADY?!  SHEESH!!)   He goes through books like there is no tomorrow.  

He's almost finished with his reading list for 6th grade, and I've thrown in a couple other books along the way for him.  

He's just joined this book club with some other homeschoolers (all boys around his age, which I have to admit I'm hoping he'll enjoy - being the oldest, and not having a lot of friends his age.  It doesn't seem to bother him at all, and I can't say it bothers me - I can totally get it if relationships and friendships like that just aren't something that are important for him.  I know he's totally different from me, personality wise.  So I'm not trying to force anything on him or assume anything - but that being said, it can't be bad for him to forge new friendships out of this, yes?) and he'll be reading one book per month with them.  This month it's the Enola Holmes book I read - next month, I believe, is Percy Jackson.  

He's an excellent reader - both in technicality and understanding.  Though I don't want anything that would be pushing it on the boundaries of maturity in some ways - he is just 12, after all.  :)  Such an interesting age, 12.  On one hand I experienced his first outburst that felt very teenager-ish a couple weeks ago, and on the other hand he used his birthday gift cards to buy Star Wars legos lol.  :)

[Jane in NC]

The "India" in Passage to India seems to me to be a state of mind, and not a country. Characters seem to want to meet Indians while surrounded by them, and want to see "the real India" when they're living in it. The "passage" seems to be a metaphorical one of understanding and exposure, rather than one of geography, at least so far. Having never read the book before, based upon the title I thought someone would be traveling to India, but they're already there!

 

 

Yes.  We are all in a societal muddle, aren't we? 

 

I think the passages involved are all personal or within personal relationships.  In the first section, Mosque, we see the first such passage between Dr. Aziz and Mrs. Moore.  This passage could have happened anywhere really.  India offers a colorful backdrop and provides such rich metaphors

 

This is helpful and insightful, thank you for sharing. It seems that the more some character travel - metaphorically - the further they get from "the real India."

 

I'm trying to hold off on my comments until we're allowed to talk about The Caves! The first section seemed very profound and beautiful to me. I'm having some issues with the 2nd section.

 

I am traveling tomorrow so the rest of you may want to start the discussion before I am able to chime in.

 

#15: The Last Battle by C.S. Lewis.  It was... odd.  From start to finish it was odd.  I didn't dislike it, but I didn't love it either.  It was just odd.

 

When I first read the Chronicles of Narnia in 7th grade, The Last Battle was by far my favorite book.  It may have something to do with Reepicheep or that the ultimate resolution was very comforting to my young mind.

[Kareni]

 

Which actually brings me to another reason I was posting:  Good kids books!  Well, he's a kid but not a little kid.  Link is 12.  (HOW THE BLOODY HECK DID I GET A TWELVE YEAR OLD ALREADY?!  SHEESH!!)   He goes through books like there is no tomorrow. 

 

You might want to ask again tomorrow when the new thread starts.  Can you list some of his favorite titles/genres?

 

Regards,

Kareni

[KathyBC]

#15: The Last Battle by C.S. Lewis.  It was... odd.  From start to finish it was odd.  I didn't dislike it, but I didn't love it either.  It was just odd.

That might have been my favourite of the series.

[PeacefulChaos]

You might want to ask again tomorrow when the new thread starts.  Can you list some of his favorite titles/genres?

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Yes, I may do that.

 

He likes a lot of things.  I'm not sure what he's reading right now, but I know he's read many of the Warriors books (cats?  lol), he liked White Fang and other of that genre when he was younger, he liked My Side of the Mountain, Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit...

[Onceuponatime]

Yes, I may do that.

 

He likes a lot of things. I'm not sure what he's reading right now, but I know he's read many of the Warriors books (cats? lol), he liked White Fang and other of that genre when he was younger, he liked My Side of the Mountain, Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit...

Hatchett

Island of the Blue Dolphin

Cold River (an out of print survival story that I loved as a kid)

Watership Down

The Black Stallion

Incredible Journey

Rascal

Gentle Ben

My 11 1/2 yo son loves the Redwall series.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Onceuponatime

[Robin M]

I am on tap for talking about Darwin - in March, I think? Or April? I bet Robin will remind me . . .  :)

 

Darwin and Voyage of the Beagle is scheduled for April, along with Edith Wharton.  

[Butter]

I've completely fallen off the wagon with these. I started last March, figured they would be fun and somewhat easy, yet I've finished more difficult books rather than these. They're just not resonating with me, except the first.

 

I really struggled keeping reading the Narnia books.  I honestly can't figure out why they are so popular.  I really liked three of them (Lion, Witch, and Wardrobe, Prince Caspian, and Voyage of the Dawn Treader), hated two of them (Magician's Nephew and Horse and His Boy), and was meh on the other two.

 

(HOW THE BLOODY HECK DID I GET A TWELVE YEAR OLD ALREADY?!  SHEESH!!)

 

It's weird how the kids get older by the parents don't.  My daughter will be 16 on Monday.  SIXTEEN.  What the heck?!?!  She got her learners yesterday.  I love the human she is becoming, but I can't figure out just how or when she managed to live 16 whole years.

 

When I first read the Chronicles of Narnia in 7th grade, The Last Battle was by far my favorite book.  It may have something to do with Reepicheep or that the ultimate resolution was very comforting to my young mind.

 

I thought the ending was weird and awful.  I read it and was like, "Well, that sucks."  I love how different people have very different reactions to the same books. (I did like seeing Reepicheep again, though.)

 

#16: The Rise of Nazi Germany.  I have, for some reason, always been fascinated by what led to World War II.  This was mostly the same information as in The Rise and Fall of Adolf Hitler by Shirer, at least the rise part.  I mean, it would be, since it's history.  The information is presented very well.

 

#17: Formula for Murder by Diana Orgain.  I've read at least one other book in that series.  They are murder mysteries, but they are light and lean toward the funny side.  Sometimes Kate's constant obsessing about how much time she is spending away from her baby and whether giving formula is okay (seriously, she must be in a lot of pain sometimes given how long she goes between nursing) gets old.  It was a fun book.

 

I had a lot of time to read today and last night because it's just me and the little guy.  Everyone else went to Louisiana to a taekwondo competition.  They should be home soon.  Ani and Cameron got their first degree black belts in December so this was their first competition as black belts.  Ani got two firsts (forms and sparring) and a second (traditional weapons).  Cameron got a second (sparring - the only match he lost was against a state champ third degree - not exactly evenly matched there) and two thirds (forms and traditional weapons).  My kids are awesome.

[Kathleen.]

We both read "Gulliver's Travels" for this week. My 9yo read the Classic Starts version. It was nice to revisit this book from my highschool days.

:)

[Minerva]

#15: The Last Battle by C.S. Lewis.  It was... odd.  From start to finish it was odd.  I didn't dislike it, but I didn't love it either.  It was just odd.

 

I am in the midst of The Last Battle and you are right, odd!

 

The ape as Antichrist? An easy villain, but kind of a  sneaky subtext for a kids book. 

 

I also feel increasingly uncomfortable whenever he talks about the dark skinned Calormenes who believe in the god Tash and smell of garlic and onions. 

 

Having said the above, it is a tighter story than the last few Narnia books we have read. Once we get going it is hard to put it down. I was impressed that my daughter remembered the Aesop's fable about the ass in the lion's clothing. I had completely forgotten that one.  

[idnib]

Yes, I may do that.

 

He likes a lot of things.  I'm not sure what he's reading right now, but I know he's read many of the Warriors books (cats?  lol), he liked White Fang and other of that genre when he was younger, he liked My Side of the Mountain, Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit...

 

My DS11 (almost 12) likes many of the same books and he liked the Horatio Hornblower series. Also check out the Gormenghast trilogy, by Melvyn Peake, which DS hasn't read yet but I purchased it after a tip from Ruth (lewelma). It looks really good and is meaty. I bought this one, which is all 3 books of the main trilogy is one binding. It's 960 pages. Reminds me I need to get him started on it.

 

Darwin and Voyage of the Beagle is scheduled for April, along with Edith Wharton.  

 

Thank you!

[MaeFlowers]

The "India" in Passage to India seems to me to be a state of mind, and not a country. Characters seem to want to meet Indians while surrounded by them, and want to see "the real India" when they're living in it. The "passage" seems to be a metaphorical one of understanding and exposure, rather than one of geography, at least so far. Having never read the book before, based upon the title I thought someone would be traveling to India, but they're already there!

 

 

This is interesting. Can you elaborate?

I've been sitting here for 45 minutes trying to think of how I could elaborate and I'm not sure I can. It really is just an idea that has been bouncing around in my head for a while that is not fully realized. I think that Christianity and Eastern religion are so intrinsically different that they could only exist among vastly different cultures and that the different religions were not so much a result of the culture but rather the culture was a result of the faith. If two cultures start from a completely different set of presumptions, they are likely to come to different conclusions.

 

Right now I have two questions I'm mulling over. One is, why are westerners more cold/logical while easterners appear to be more emotive. (There is actually an exchange later in the book that eludes to this.) Second, why have we, for all intents and purposes, denied superstition and witchcraft while eastern cultures seem to be more deeply steeped in these ideas. (I know this seems completely random but I read an article last year about women in India being stoned to death because the villagers believed they were practicing witchcraft and have been thinking about it ever since.) I think these things are interlinked and have something to do with faith. Maybe that Christianity is more practical, while Eastern faiths are more philosophical.

 

I don't know. I might be a little whackadoodle and completely off base.

[Jane in NC]

Right now I have two questions I'm mulling over. One is, why are westerners more cold/logical while easterners appear to be more emotive. (There is actually an exchange later in the book that eludes to this.) Second, why have we, for all intents and purposes, denied superstition and witchcraft while eastern cultures seem to be more deeply steeped in these ideas. (I know this seems completely random but I read an article last year about women in India being stoned to death because the villagers believed they were practicing witchcraft and have been thinking about it ever since.) I think these things are interlinked and have something to do with faith. Maybe that Christianity is more practical, while Eastern faiths are more philosophical.

 

I am not convinced that Westerners are more logical only that we may appear so when examining ourselves through a Western lens.

 

What immediately springs to mind goes back to my days of teaching mathematics at an engineering university.  Engineers should be logical, yes? Back in the day, these students were required to take either History of Science or History of Technology for graduation.  I knew the fellow who taught the former.  He kept studies he performed on his students through the decades and found no decline in the belief in irrational ideas.  For the most part he was examining future engineers, many of whom were born and bred in Southern religious traditions (i.e. Southern Baptists or Methodists). He found students who read horoscopes daily, athletes who had superstitious pieces of clothing or equipment, scientifically inclined students who doubted science when cultural attitudes had clouded their views.

 

Unfortunately we can find too many parallels in our own culture of men and women who were killed for being different. Matthew Shepard comes to mind as does the Billie Holiday song "Strange Fruit".

 

No, I fear that the hot heads of our culture lack all logic and often receive the spotlight. Frankly I wish that they were both more practical and more philosophical.

 

I am curious to hear your what you might have to say about Mrs. Moore.

 

By the way, I was supposed to attend a meeting over the next two days but it canceled due to winter weather for travelers from other parts of the state.  So I will be around this afternoon to join the discussion--when not working on taxes.  Wish me well on the latter!

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

I am not convinced that Westerners are more logical only that we may appear so when examining ourselves through a Western lens.

 

What immediately springs to mind goes back to my days of teaching mathematics at an engineering university.  Engineers should be logical, yes? Back in the day, these students were required to take either History of Science or History of Technology for graduation.  I knew the fellow who taught the former.  He kept studies he performed on his students through the decades and found no decline in the belief in irrational ideas.  For the most part he was examining future engineers, many of whom were born and bred in Southern religious traditions (i.e. Southern Baptists or Methodists). He found students who read horoscopes daily, athletes who had superstitious pieces of clothing or equipment, scientifically inclined students who doubted science when cultural attitudes had clouded their views.

 

Unfortunately we can find too many parallels in our own culture of men and women who were killed for being different. Matthew Shepard comes to mind as does the Billie Holiday song "Strange Fruit".

 

No, I fear that the hot heads of our culture lack all logic and often receive the spotlight. Frankly I wish that they were both more practical and more philosophical.

 

I am curious to hear your what you might have to say about Mrs. Moore.

 

By the way, I was supposed to attend a meeting over the next two days but it canceled due to winter weather for travelers from other parts of the state.  So I will be around this afternoon to join the discussion--when not working on taxes.  Wish me well on the latter!

 

 

I do wish you well, that is exactly what I'm going to be doing today, too, while dh takes the girls out to enjoy the fabulous 70+ degree weather.  I know this is a comment risking tomatoes from people who live in places with an actual winter, but man I hope winter isn't already over.  We could really use 3 more months of rain.

 

ETA: 78 degrees, no less!  That's what they are predicting, at least.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Chrysalis Academy

[Jane in NC]

I do wish you well, that is exactly what I'm going to be doing today, too, while dh takes the girls out to enjoy the fabulous 70+ degree weather.  I know this is a comment risking tomatoes from people who live in places with an actual winter, but man I hope winter isn't already over.  We could really use 3 more months of rain.

 

Ugh.  We are under water in my corner of the Carolinas.  Wishing I could send some your way since more than an inch is coming (after 6 inches so far this month!)

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

I've been sitting here for 45 minutes trying to think of how I could elaborate and I'm not sure I can. It really is just an idea that has been bouncing around in my head for a while that is not fully realized. I think that Christianity and Eastern religion are so intrinsically different that they could only exist among vastly different cultures and that the different religions were not so much a result of the culture but rather the culture was a result of the faith. If two cultures start from a completely different set of presumptions, they are likely to come to different conclusions.

 

Right now I have two questions I'm mulling over. One is, why are westerners more cold/logical while easterners appear to be more emotive. (There is actually an exchange later in the book that eludes to this.) Second, why have we, for all intents and purposes, denied superstition and witchcraft while eastern cultures seem to be more deeply steeped in these ideas. (I know this seems completely random but I read an article last year about women in India being stoned to death because the villagers believed they were practicing witchcraft and have been thinking about it ever since.) I think these things are interlinked and have something to do with faith. Maybe that Christianity is more practical, while Eastern faiths are more philosophical.

 

I don't know. I might be a little whackadoodle and completely off base.

 

I'm not convinced that the West has a corner on the market of logic, either, but I wonder if Fielding might agree with you: here's a quote from Ch. 32, a character is commenting on Venice:

 

"He had forgotten the beauty of form among idol temples and lumpy hills; indeed, without form, how can there be beauty? Form stammered here and there in a mosque, became rigid through nervousness even; but oh these Italian churches! . . . something more precious than mosaics and marbles was offered to him now: the harmony between the works of man and the earth that upholds them, the civilization that has escaped muddle, the spirit in a reasonable form, with flesh and blood subsisting. . . Venice was not Europe, it was part of the Mediterranean harmony. The Mediterranean is the human norm. When men leave that exquisite lake, whether through the Bosphorus or the Pillars of Hercules, they approach the monstrous and extraordinary; and the southern exit leads to the strangest experience of all."

 

Wow.  :huh:

[Pam in CT]

I've been sitting here for 45 minutes trying to think of how I could elaborate and I'm not sure I can. It really is just an idea that has been bouncing around in my head for a while that is not fully realized. I think that Christianity and Eastern religion are so intrinsically different that they could only exist among vastly different cultures and that the different religions were not so much a result of the culture but rather the culture was a result of the faith. If two cultures start from a completely different set of presumptions, they are likely to come to different conclusions.

 

Right now I have two questions I'm mulling over. One is, why are westerners more cold/logical while easterners appear to be more emotive. (There is actually an exchange later in the book that eludes to this.) Second, why have we, for all intents and purposes, denied superstition and witchcraft while eastern cultures seem to be more deeply steeped in these ideas. (I know this seems completely random but I read an article last year about women in India being stoned to death because the villagers believed they were practicing witchcraft and have been thinking about it ever since.) I think these things are interlinked and have something to do with faith. Maybe that Christianity is more practical, while Eastern faiths are more philosophical.

 

I don't know. I might be a little whackadoodle and completely off base.

MaeFlower, I think I follow at least part of what you're saying -- that culture and religion in a place become intertwined, with values and world views so enmeshed that it's hard to parse, when two cultures/religions encounter one another, which part is speaking.

 

Like Jane and Rose, I'm not sure I see our culture/majority religion (of which FWIW I am not part, so that undoubtedly affects my perspective somewhat) as more Rational than eastern ones.  Plenty of mathematical and scientific foundations emerged first in the Arab/Muslim, Chinese and Indian subcontinent world; and as Jane pointed out we have our own superstitions and violences as well.  But it's very hard to see our own culture/majority religion through any lens other than, well, our own cultural/religious lens.

 

To my mind, literature helps.  It serves as a passage away from the self, into a different world, and in so doing -- at its best and our best -- helps us build a muscle of at least trying to imagine -- if I see Them as a foreign country, how must it look, for Them to see me?  Or Mrs Moore, as it happens.

 

 

 

We have neither rain (so sorry Jane) nor sun (grrrr, Rose) but it is currently 3 degrees here.  That's Farenheit, Sadie -- -18 for you, shoot me in the head.  I am shortly off to Philadelphia with my son on a college visit.  My plan is it's going to get steadily warmer as we head south.  Hold me in the light, please.

[Minerva]

MaeFlower, I think I follow at least part of what you're saying -- that culture and religion in a place become intertwined, with values and world views so enmeshed that it's hard to parse, when two cultures/religions encounter one another, which part is speaking.

 

Like Jane and Rose, I'm not sure I see our culture/majority religion (of which FWIW I am not part, so that undoubtedly affects my perspective somewhat) as more Rational than eastern ones.  Plenty of mathematical and scientific foundations emerged first in the Arab/Muslim, Chinese and Indian subcontinent world; and as Jane pointed out we have our own superstitions and violences as well.  But it's very hard to see our own culture/majority religion through any lens other than, well, our own cultural/religious lens.

 

 

I live in Central America. Almost everyone I know is some denomination of Christian and likewise everyone I know believes in ghosts, witches, spirits, the evil eye. It is not uncommon for people to have personal experiences with supernatural beings. When my daughter was little my neighbors were terrified because they said a witch was sleeping in the tree across the street from our house waiting to steal my daughter in the night. They implored me to have her wear her pajamas backwards to confuse the spirit. They gave me a plant to keep on my porch to keep her away. We have had to do all kinds of things to keep our children safe in the eyes of our community. I am happy to report, they have all worked. 

 

Meanwhile, here is my favorite passage from the book so far. I think it does such a good job illuminating the wide chasm. It happens at the end of chapter three when Prof. Godbole sings the raga. 

 

 

 

‘I may sing now,’ he replied, and did.

This thin voice rose, and gave out one sound after another.  At times there seemed rhythm, at times there was the illusion of a Western melody.  But the ear, baffled repeatedly, soon lost any clue, and wandered in a maze of noises, none harsh or unpleasant, none intelligible.  It was the song of an unknown bird.  Only the servants understood it.  They began to whisper to one another.  The man who was gathering water-chestnut came naked out of  the tank, his lips parted with delight, disclosing his scarlet tongue.  The sounds continued and ceased after a few moments as casually as they had begun - apparently halfway through  a bar, and upon the subdominant.

‘Thanks so much; what was that?’ asked Fielding.

‘I will explain in detail.  It was a religious song.  I placed myself in the position of a milkmaiden.  I say to Shri Krishna: “Come! Come to me only.†  The God refuses to come.  This is repeated several times.  The song is composed in a raga appropriate to the present hour, which is the evening.’

‘But He comes in some other song, I hope?’ said Mrs Moore gently.

‘Oh no, He refuses to come,’ repeated Godbole, perhaps not understanding her question.  ‘I say to Him, Come, come, come, come, come, come.  He neglects to come.’

[Jane in NC]

MaeFlower, I think I follow at least part of what you're saying -- that culture and religion in a place become intertwined, with values and world views so enmeshed that it's hard to parse, when two cultures/religions encounter one another, which part is speaking.

 

----

 

To my mind, literature helps.  It serves as a passage away from the self, into a different world, and in so doing -- at its best and our best -- helps us build a muscle of at least trying to imagine -- if I see Them as a foreign country, how must it look, for Them to see me?  Or Mrs Moore, as it happens.

 

 

Re:  Pam's first paragraph.  As MaeFlower suggested before, there is the added complexity in Passage due to the clash of Muslim and Hindu beliefs as well.  It goes beyond East and West.

 

I love what you had to say, Pam, about literature helping us in our own passages, our own muddles vs. mysteries to use the words of Mrs. Moore. 

 

In Forster's novel, I feel the heat, smell the scents, hear the street noises of India.  But the theme for me goes beyond India to our own understanding of our relationships. What sets Passage apart for me though is the spiritual subtext, that quiet moment in the mosque that idnib mentioned, Professor Godbole's self removal from the swirl of conflict, Mrs. Moore's gentle walk across the spiritual bridge. There is a delicacy here that I think is rarely encountered.

 

[Melinda in VT]

We have neither rain (so sorry Jane) nor sun (grrrr, Rose) but it is currently 3 degrees here. That's Farenheit, Sadie -- -18 for you, shoot me in the head. I am shortly off to Philadelphia with my son on a college visit. My plan is it's going to get steadily warmer as we head south. Hold me in the light, please.

Add me to the list of people who need to work on taxes, but it's -10 here, -27 if you include wind chill, and it's going to be a struggle to crawl out from under the blankets in front of the fire and head into the always-chilly office.

[Melinda in VT]

I keep meaning to join you in India. It was a professional interest of the previous owner of the house, so we have quite a few books about India or set in India that I haven't read yet.

 

Including one I discovered last week while reorganizing shelves--Indian Diary by Sidney and Beatrice Webb, which the cover says "surpasses both Hindoo Holiday and A Passage to India" in "sharpness of observation and range of interests."

 

Unfortunately, my reading keeps getting pulled in other directions--by the science fiction and fantasy convention, by my IRL book club, by our upcoming trip to Ecuador--so I don't know when I'll make my way there.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Melinda in VT

[idnib]

Right now I have two questions I'm mulling over. One is, why are westerners more cold/logical while easterners appear to be more emotive. (There is actually an exchange later in the book that eludes to this.) Second, why have we, for all intents and purposes, denied superstition and witchcraft while eastern cultures seem to be more deeply steeped in these ideas. (I know this seems completely random but I read an article last year about women in India being stoned to death because the villagers believed they were practicing witchcraft and have been thinking about it ever since.) I think these things are interlinked and have something to do with faith. Maybe that Christianity is more practical, while Eastern faiths are more philosophical.

 

Thank you for your response! I'm not sure I agree with you about East vs. West. If we look back to occurrences such as the Salem Witch Trials, which were similar to the stoning you mentioned above, it seems as if it's about more than religion, as the people who participated in those were Western and Christian, with (I think) very limited exposure to Eastern ideas. I think this kind of behavior links back to what I was saying earlier about group behavior and evolutionary vestiges, but I could be wrong as well.

 

I do think a lot of what Westerners would call superstitious Muslims would consider religious, spiritual, or mystical instead. (Although certainly there are a lot of superstitious, non-Islamic ideas as well, such as the Evil Eye.) There exists a pre-Islamic idea (but incorporated into Islam later) of a veiled world that exists simultaneously around ours, completely mixed in, which we cannot see. Islamic thinking, fashion, and architecture are very much about the veiled mystery, the hidden which is only revealed as you walk through the arch into the tantalizing courtyard you glimpsed from afar, or lift the physical veil and see someone's face. Full exposure of something (wide open buildings, showing a lot of skin, etc) is crass and lacks a certain mystery.

 

The idea of the Jinn ("genies") is an excellent example of this idea of a hidden world. Even Satan ("Shaytan") is a jinn.

 

 

Jinn (Arabic: Ø§Ù„جن‎, al-jinn), also romanized as djinn or anglicized as genies, are supernatural creatures in early Arabian and later Islamic mythology and theology. An individual member of the jinn is known as a jinni, djinni, or genie (الجني, al-jinnÄ«). They are mentioned frequently in the Quran (the 72nd sura is titled SÅ«rat al-Jinn) and other Islamic texts and inhabit an unseen world, another universe beyond the known universe. The Quran says that the jinn are made of a smokeless and "scorching fire",^[1] but are also physical in nature, being able to interact in a tactile manner with people and objects and likewise be acted upon. The jinn, humans, and angels make up the three known sapient creations of God. Like human beings, the jinn can be good, evil, or neutrally benevolent and hence have free will like humans.^[2] The shaytan jinn are akin to demons in Christian tradition, but the jinn are not angels and the Quran draws a clear distinction between the two creations. The Quran states in SÅ«rat al-Kahf (The Cave), Ayah 50,^[3] that Iblis (Azazel) is one of the jinn.

 

Maybe this will shed some light on why you might perceive these cultures as being more superstitious, while they would consider it mystical or religious.

 

By the way, I was supposed to attend a meeting over the next two days but it canceled due to winter weather for travelers from other parts of the state.  So I will be around this afternoon to join the discussion--when not working on taxes.  Wish me well on the latter!

 

 

Good luck! We finished most of it on Friday although we're still waiting for a couple of documents.

 

I keep meaning to join you in India. It was a professional interest of the previous owner of the house, so we have quite a few books about India or set in India that I haven't read yet.

 

I really hope you do join us!

[Robin M]

Link to week 7 - please continue conversation in new thread