Loosening the reins on screen use- what does it look like?

[Guest]

Making blanket statements about things like this is a ridiculous thing to do.

 

Know your own kids. Parent accordingly.

[Tsuga]

If I saw any of that type of behavior, the devices would be gone. Immediately. 

 

Convo this morning:

 

M: Sacha, come eat your breakfast.

S: [Looks up from laptop] Ok. [Runs to table and eats]

 

Convo yesterday:

 

M: Sacha, time to start school.

S: [Looks up from laptop] Ok. [Runs to table and does work without issues]

 

I'm not saying that this works for every child, but it works for us with this one. And if it ever stops working, then we will make changes. But, unless I see issues developing, I prefer to remain true to my parenting style, which is very hands-off, Also, I've read tons of research on screens/vid games, and it is pretty positive, on balance.

 

Well, they tried that, but he would take his sister's. I think at this point they actually have considered removing all screens from the house. Seriously, it is terrifying to think of this person on heroin. 

 

The point is that you don't know what kind of kid you have until you let it in.

 

And then it's too late.

 

Some people only try heroin once. Some people only have one drink of wine.

 

It's just impossible to know.

 

The research I have read on screens and video games is not very positive:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-screens-idUSKCN0R32KC20150903

 

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-learning-habit-study-finds-that-media-use-in-excess-of-45-minutes-per-day-negatively-affects-childrens-grades-sleep-and-social-skills-273539931.html

 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/120/5/978

 

http://www.kfn.de/versions/kfn/assets/APA_POSTER2.pdf

 

The most-cited study, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3041171/that suggests that non-violent, educational video games have a positive effect on school performance,  crucially did not compare these students to students who did not play video games at all. I.e. educational games are only better than violent video games, not shown to be better than nothing. This is the most commonly cited pro-video-game (and it's not even really pro) study I can find! And even worse, it's 100% self-reported! I would not say it's a bad study, but the idea that it provides strong support for even moderate use of video games is wrong.

 

Am I anti-tech? NO. I am pro-tech. However, I believe that screens are designed to be particularly addictive and as such, should be limited for most children and that it is safest for a parent to assume that their child is vulnerable to screen addiction unless proven otherwise.

 

Your son sounds like he is not vulnerable to screen addiction. However, once the addiction starts, there's no going back. So I would not tell parents to assume they have a Sacha until they find they have a, let's call this kid Ryan. Assume you have a Ryan. The WORST that can happen, absolute worst, if you limit screen time, alcohol, and other addictive things, is that the child will be uncool. Being addicted is far worse.

 

And even for those who are not addicted, this is a distraction at best. It's only a tool when used extremely selectively.

 

My kids have screens. They use screens. They earn screen time. I have screens. I use screens.

 

I am 100% pro-tech-addiction awareness.

[Eagle]

I think some of the addiction issues come from time restrictions attached to screen use. Making something restricted and a special reward makes it more appealing than other activities. If you are only allowed to use something for 30 minutes a day, you are going to ensure you get your special time each day. In addition to being fun, it now has an additional value attached to it.

 

We have restrictions on content, which started strict (no internet at all) and have loosened up for older ds as he has needed Internet for school. He also cannot install apps without me, but he can ask me if he needs something and we can discuss and decide.

 

We don't have time restrictions. The iPad, iPhones and computer are just some activities out of many activities available. We spend time doing lots of other activities with the dc. It can help to plan ahead for other activities instead of waiting for them to have already spent too much time on the device. In the morning we might say, "hey lets play Ticket to Ride (board game) this afternoon." In this way we make time for other things and don't tend to have a lot of time left for screens. As Sadie mentioned, it's "freedom within artificial limits".

[Carrie12345]

The OP asked for ways to loosen the reins.

 

I assume the OP knows her own kids, and wouldn't be asking if she thought it would ruin their lives. 

 

I assume if she loosens the reins and it doesn't work, she is smart enough to change things up.

 

I'm not sure why anyone needs a lecture about the evils of screens and addiction in this thread.

 

Many people world wide manage to use electronics without the sky falling in. Maybe that should be our starting point, rather than the worst possible outcome ?

 

Exactly this. Of course parents need to be aware of problem signs, but it's ridiculous to treat them all like they're going to rot. Or do drugs. Or get pregnant.  Or join a cult. Or any of the other million possibilities.

 

Today, my 5 and 8yos played outside, built Legos, played pretend with stuffed animals, and wrestled around like little piglets.  They helped themselves to healthy snacks, the 8yo did a little school work, the 5yo played with the AAS board, they actually helped me straighten up this afternoon, and they sat around chatting with their big sisters for a while.  Even though they were never told they couldn't play on screens.

(They are watching Netflix while dinner cooks, though.)

 

I wouldn't tell anyone that's a guaranteed or even probable outcome. It's just our experience.

[EMS83]

I think it's important to remember is that someone who is addicted to screens has the potential to be addicted to anything.  Screens (or chocolate, food, furry things, anything) just happen to be the current object of obsession.  Addressing addictive tendencies in general (which may involve addressing the specific addiction, too, yes), is critical, because you can only control what goes on inside your own walls.  One day they'll grow up and leave home.  And then will it really be any less heartbreaking when the behavior is beyond anyone's reach to correct?  An example from my own past: it's worthless to say "don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs" without also addressing a strong tendency toward compliance and people-pleasing.  Those are great, until you get around the wrong people.

[umsami]

We've slowly opened up for my 12, 10, and 8 year old.  (We were never that strict.)  

 

Honestly, I'm finding that some days, that's all they do...and other days, they barely touch the apps.

 

Sometimes, I'll say things like, "well, if you're going to be on your DS, you need to be on treadmill".  But that's about it.

 

We do put "rules" around physical activity that they need to get, rather than the screens.  So, try to encourage them not to play for hours non-stop, but to take breaks, go for a bike ride, etc.

[Reefgazer]

I prefer hobbies, physical activities, and friendships to develop from my kids' interests and without my direction. That won't happen when there is free reign of the electronics.

This is why we make time for hobbies, physical activity and friendships.

[Joker]

This is my problem with screens in our home.  If they are reserved for leisure time, there are no other activities that are as attractive to them, so leisure is basically glorified TV, and no leisure time is ever spent exploring anything  - not hobbies, not physical activity, not friendships. 

 

This is not how it plays out in our home at all.

 

My dds have free use of electronics in our home and have for a while. They still choose to do many other things with their leisure time instead. Youngest usually chooses to draw or paint while oldest will usually choose to read or write. They spend time playing in the yard with our dogs and hanging with their friends. They also really enjoy playing board games and doing puzzles with us. Mine definitely do not choose screen time all the time, or even most, just because they can. 

[Tsuga]

The OP asked for ways to loosen the reins.

 

I assume the OP knows her own kids, and wouldn't be asking if she thought it would ruin their lives. 

 

I assume if she loosens the reins and it doesn't work, she is smart enough to change things up.

 

I'm not sure why anyone needs a lecture about the evils of screens and addiction in this thread.

 

Many people world wide manage to use electronics without the sky falling in. Maybe that should be our starting point, rather than the worst possible outcome ?

 

I gave a response to the OP in particular.

 

I then replied to those who insist that self-regulation is a viable technique worthy of trying with primary-school aged children. I do not think that is a good way to loosen the reins. In fact I think it is a bad idea.

 

I think that one can loosen the reins without going free rein.

 

And I think you are mischaracterizing my argument. I have repeatedly stated that we have technology and screens in our home and limits and explanations of limits. I have cited studies which show mild impairment from excessive screen use. I have talked about one kid who is particularly addicted, but this is not the "sky falling in" and this is not even the worst possible outcome (the child I referred to is still middle-school aged, hardly unemployed and in a basement or anything and I'm certain that his loving family environment will eventually overcome his addictive tendencies).

 

The thing is, there has been nobody arguing for zero screen time, whereas there have been several people who argued that there don't need to be limits. I would say I'm talking about a moderate approach: limited screen time with increasing responsibility over a period of time, concomitant with responsibilities and maturity, and that i take this approach because free rein does come with a risk.

 

Whereas you're arguing for free rein--arguably an extreme, even if your kids don't behave in extreme ways--because it works for you personally.

 

Just because I don't agree with your technique doesn't mean I support the opposite extreme.

[Incognito]

Sorry not to have read everything, but I recall from your OP you are thinking about Kindle Fires, so I'll just comment on what is working well for us.

 

Using the free on-machine freetime app works well for setting an on/off time for use, as well as for regulating content.  It is a very easy way to have a time limit without any arguments (the machine shuts off).  You can decide if the limit is 30 minutes or 5 hours or whatever (and it can be different on weekends).

 

For us, having screen use come AFTER a few simple life needs are met works well.  They know not to bother before they are done with necessary tasks for the day (school, dressed/teeth/hair, clean room).  Well, I do ask about their rooms because sometimes they try to slip past that one, but it is easily asked and answered/checked.  

 

For us, having a certain amount every day or at a certain time drove the NEED to do it.  When it is not a daily expected thing to be lost, but instead an option that comes without prejudice after requirements are met it seems to go well (and having to have a clean room first keeps it from being daily ;)).

 

FWIW, we've had the pocket Minecraft on the Kindle and it hasn't been a problem.  The kids intensely enjoy the game for a few weeks, then do something else for a while, then come back to it.  From what I understand the natural limits of the pocket version keep it from being as all encompassingly addictive as the full version.

 

ETA: I personally think that if you set the devices to be relatively restricted and regulated, it is easy to loosen those restrictions as you see them unnecessary (or as you see it all working well and you want to give more freedom).  It is much more painful to add in regulations than it is to add in freedoms.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Incognito

[heartlikealion]

I think some of the addiction issues come from time restrictions attached to screen use. Making something restricted and a special reward makes it more appealing than other activities. If you are only allowed to use something for 30 minutes a day, you are going to ensure you get your special time each day. In addition to being fun, it now has an additional value attached to it.

 

We have restrictions on content, which started strict (no internet at all) and have loosened up for older ds as he has needed Internet for school. He also cannot install apps without me, but he can ask me if he needs something and we can discuss and decide.

 

We don't have time restrictions. The iPad, iPhones and computer are just some activities out of many activities available. We spend time doing lots of other activities with the dc. It can help to plan ahead for other activities instead of waiting for them to have already spent too much time on the device. In the morning we might say, "hey lets play Ticket to Ride (board game) this afternoon." In this way we make time for other things and don't tend to have a lot of time left for screens. As Sadie mentioned, it's "freedom within artificial limits".

 

I know it varies from child to child. The addictive nature can happen even with little to no restrictions imo. Ds seems to display this, anyway. But regarding the bolded, this made me think of my cousin. His parents put a lock on the TV and it was very limited. I think it was like no TV til summer or something like that. I remember visiting him one summer and he didn't want to do anything but watch tv all day.

 

[Haiku]

The addictive nature can happen even with little to no restrictions imo. 

 

This. I know children from families with no restrictions and children from families with varying degrees of restriction who have trouble managing their screen time. I think it is much more a personality thing than it is anything else, which is why the advice to go with no restrictions makes me squirm. You can always loosen restrictions gradually if you find that it works for your family, but it's very hard to go from free access to restriction if you find yourself with a child who needs help managing.

 

Of my two kids at home, one responds pretty well to "hey, why don't you find something else to do now?" and one does not. One has been known to get up in the middle of the night to sneak screen access and actively work to get around or disable filters and monitoring software, etc. Two different kids raised in the same environment (though not genetically related) respond to electronics in very different ways. The one who doesn't live at home spends massive amounts of time playing with devices and can't figure out why she is so stressed out/lacking in time to study, etc.

[Reefgazer]

If the OP didn't already know there were pitfalls and dangers, she wouldn't have asked.  She went so far as to mention she was going to have her kids sign a contract (which, IMO, is useless against the real dangers of over-screening).  Many of us have given her our honest opinion on the dangers are worth more than the payoff.  If this was a JAWM post, she should have simply said so.

The OP asked for ways to loosen the reins.

 

I assume the OP knows her own kids, and wouldn't be asking if she thought it would ruin their lives. 

 

I assume if she loosens the reins and it doesn't work, she is smart enough to change things up.

 

I'm not sure why anyone needs a lecture about the evils of screens and addiction in this thread.

 

Many people world wide manage to use electronics without the sky falling in. Maybe that should be our starting point, rather than the worst possible outcome ?

 

[Susan in TX]

We have no restrictions on screen time at our house. It has never been a problem. My 4 year old boy has had unrestricted access to an ipad since he was 2. He can play his games or watch shows on Netflix any time he wants. It is no different than any other toy or activity. I don't regulate or restrict his time on the ipad anymore than I would regulate or restrict his time playing with legos. Some days he does spend hours on the ipad...but most days he spends a lot of time playing with his sister and his niece, playing outside, playing with his cars, playing with his trains, making a mess, etc.

 

Susan in TX

 

 

[SeaConquest]

I prefer hobbies, physical activities, and friendships to develop from my kids' interests and without my direction. That won't happen when there is free reign of the electronics.

 

Our issue is that we currently live in a small apartment in an urban part of a relatively large city. We have no backyard and have to live with regulations about kids playing on the premises (with balls, scooters, bikes, or making noise generally). My kids can't go to the local park by themselves without fear of someone calling CPS on me, and they can't play on the street because of traffic. Yes, there are tons of things to do in San Diego, but most everything requires my direction (or, at least, participation at this point), shuttling the kids from one activity or playdate to the next. It is exhausting, and mama needs her breaks too.

 

Yes, the kids play board games and do puzzles, play Lego and imaginary games, color, read for pleasure, etc., but, as homeschoolers, they also have a lot more free time than their public school counterparts. School takes about 3 hours, extracurriculars and non-screen activities take up several more hours. But yeah, there is also screen time. And really, given our living circumstances, I am at a loss as to what else they are supposed to do with their day? We don't live on a farm, we don't have animals, they are too young to really do chores, we don't have a playroom/homeschool room/tinkering space, and kids playing out of doors is a basically nonexistent concept in our neighborhood. 

Edited January 10, 2016 by SeaConquest

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

This is the OP here, just wanted to give an update.  

 

First off, my first semi-controversial post on WTM!  Cool!  

 

Next:  We're going to NOT allow any sort of gaming for now beyond the dragon box, spelling games, etc, that are already allowed.

 

Rather than buying a kindle Fire "for" the child (as in, their property), I am going to dust off the old 1st generation iPad that I've had sitting forgotten in a drawer (gift from a friend who didn't need it anymore, but I never did anything with it since I already had a newer one) and load the project apps that my kids use- scratch, stop motion, etc.  In addition, we will pick up a simple kindle e-reader used to add to our "library".  

 

As far as the loosening of reins goes, I will have all our devices (2 iPads, a macbook, and an iPod touch) in a "charging station".  Before noon, they will be off limits unless a school-related need comes up.  After lunch during project time, they will be available for the following tasks: word processing, topical research, skill building, audiobooks, ebooks, and project work.  Similar policy on weekends, except we tend to watch a family movie and a family documentary as well on weekends.  The only thing I will micromanage will be helping with search terms and things like that.  I'm going to look at some of the youtube apps out there for a kid-friendly one that doesn't restrict to just cartoons.  As is already in place, they will also have 15 minutes each morning for educational game play (this is already part of our homeschool schedule).

 

We will operate in the "screens as tools can be used liberally" model for quite a while to see how things go.  When it comes to games, I'm going to make a concerted effort to pull out the board games at least 1-2x a week as well, and let my kids play online dominoes with grandpa in CA.  

 

Positive example from today:  We watched a dinosaur documentary last night as a family.  This morning, my son woke up and asked if he could search for more information about DNA.  I suggested he use youtube's search with the key words "What is DNA".  He did, and watched two short videos.  I then pulled a book off the shelf (How Life Works) and he read the section on DNA structure and then made really nice hand-drawn copies of all the appropriate pictures form the book.  THIS IS THE SORT OF ORGANIC SCREEN USE AND LEARNING THAT I AM HOPING FOR!!!  

 

So thank you all for the discussion.  I think when I said "loosen the reins" many people understood "drop all restrictions" and that was never my original intent.  

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

This is the OP here, just wanted to give an update.  

 

First off, my first semi-controversial post on WTM!  Cool!  

 

Next:  We're going to NOT allow any sort of gaming for now beyond the dragon box, spelling games, etc, that are already allowed.

 

Rather than buying a kindle Fire "for" the child (as in, their property), I am going to dust off the old 1st generation iPad that I've had sitting forgotten in a drawer (gift from a friend who didn't need it anymore, but I never did anything with it since I already had a newer one) and load the project apps that my kids use- scratch, stop motion, etc.  In addition, we will pick up a simple kindle e-reader used to add to our "library".  

 

As far as the loosening of reins goes, I will have all our devices (2 iPads, a macbook, and an iPod touch) in a "charging station".  Before noon, they will be off limits unless a school-related need comes up.  After lunch during project time, they will be available for the following tasks: word processing, topical research, skill building, audiobooks, ebooks, and project work.  Similar policy on weekends, except we tend to watch a family movie and a family documentary as well on weekends.  The only thing I will micromanage will be helping with search terms and things like that.  I'm going to look at some of the youtube apps out there for a kid-friendly one that doesn't restrict to just cartoons.  As is already in place, they will also have 15 minutes each morning for educational game play (this is already part of our homeschool schedule).

 

We will operate in the "screens as tools can be used liberally" model for quite a while to see how things go.  When it comes to games, I'm going to make a concerted effort to pull out the board games at least 1-2x a week as well, and let my kids play online dominoes with grandpa in CA.  

 

Positive example from today:  We watched a dinosaur documentary last night as a family.  This morning, my son woke up and asked if he could search for more information about DNA.  I suggested he use youtube's search with the key words "What is DNA".  He did, and watched two short videos.  I then pulled a book off the shelf (How Life Works) and he read the section on DNA structure and then made really nice hand-drawn copies of all the appropriate pictures form the book.  THIS IS THE SORT OF ORGANIC SCREEN USE AND LEARNING THAT I AM HOPING FOR!!!  

 

So thank you all for the discussion.  I think when I said "loosen the reins" many people understood "drop all restrictions" and that was never my original intent.  

 

This sounds like an excellent approach, given the ages of your kids.

 

Isn't it funny how people can interpret stuff online? I've been guilty of misreading someone's intent entirely far too often.