Picking a profession-degree oriented

[Miss Marple]

The importance of knowing yourself...and how we teach this to our kids has been on my mind a lot recently.  I'm back in the workforce in 2 different hospitals.  One is a large, fast paced teaching hospital, trauma 1 level, the other is a small town hospital.  I'm seeing people who have chosen the wrong field, or the wrong venue in which to practice.  And it makes me so sad to see these people suffer, to see the suffering they cause their fellow workers, and to realize that so many people are investing time and money in careers that they are just not suited for.  

 

I think we do our kids a disservice when we tell them they can do "anything" they want.  Genetics, personality, and ability are truly issues one must consider when searching for a career.  If anxiety is an issue for you, a fast paced, high production venue is probably not your best choice.  If you are short and not too athletic, perhaps professional basketball should be crossed off the list.  

 

I'm watching a situation unfold in which a young lady gave up a profession that required at least 4 years post high school in order to gain a new profession which required at least 6 years post high school (probably 5 years after her first degree).  She is totally unsuited for the job.  That doesn't mean she is a bad person or cannot be happy somewhere else, but she doesn't seem to understand that she is just not suited for *this* job...and there are jobs she could do if she would change her perspective.  I know another young lady whose ambition it is to dance professionally.  She has physical challenges that have not allowed her to do that...but she keeps trying.  All the while, she is a truly talented costume designer.  But she keeps trying...only to be continually disappointed.

 

It seems that some people get a list of the "best degrees to earn the most money for the least amount of time invested" and think they can do it.  And they end up spending more time and more money on a degree that just isn't going to work for them.  And others pursue a "dream" only to find that they are unsuited for that dream because of something that they can do nothing about.

 

How do we find a balance between encouraging our kids to "follow their dreams" and at the same time to "know thyself"?

 

 

[Ravin]

Well, how about instead of telling them to follow their dreams no matter what, preparing them with a practical route to being self supporting and encourage following those dreams as a hobby/avocation rather than expecting it to also pay the bills?

 

My DD faces physical, mental health, and academic challenges, and I am encouraging her to look at a variety of unconventional possibilities that play to her strengths. We've discussed cosmetology and funeral service careers, for example. DD is great with people and very social, but a high-stress job would probably not be a good fit for her. She has ideas about wanting to pursue music or theater, and we've discussed how that may be more rewarding as an avocation, rather than relying on it for supporting her financially. One of her favorite TV shows is Jessie, and I think that show helps get across the point that wanting to "make it big" requires being willing to work hard and struggle and maybe do something that isn't your main ambition but that you still enjoy (Jessie is a disney show about a young nanny for a family whose parents are big time movie directors; the lead character moved to New York to pursue an acting career and literally fell into the nanny position in the first episode.)

 

I myself had the sense to change majors when I realized that certain subjects were going to take more skull sweat than I had the combination of natural inclination and willpower to invest. I also decided I wasn't interested in going into a career in science research because I had no desire whatsoever to write grants, and it's pretty much a given that it's part of the job. I got out of the Navy in part because they had made me a technician and I frankly wasn't very good at it. 

 

I think part of the problem is that people focus on the "big picture" of the career and not the little details of the likely jobs in that career. No matter how much you want to help people, going into nursing is a bad idea if you can't handle the filthy parts of the job or the stress. Ditto any sort of first responder job. 

 

When I went into law, I knew I wanted to go into the public sector for at least the first part of my career, because I knew work/life balance was important to me and that isn't really on offer in the private sector for attorneys just starting out, especially in the big firm environment. In small firms, a certain amount of salesmanship is required to bring in clients that I also have no interest in dealing with. There are things about my job now that I don't mind that would probably drive another person up the wall with frustration. Finding a good fit is certainly important, but ultimately part of being an adult is deciding your own priorities.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

One thing that has struck me is that work experience can be very helpful in getting a sense of what kinds of job environments appeal to you.  That doesn't have to be paid work, necessarily, but work rather than just a hobby.

 

When I was a student, one of the jobs I really enjoyed was working in a tourist area as a hotdog vendor.  The job itself was just food service - what I liked is that I didn't have a supervisor breathing down my neck all the time.  This is something that I've seen as a pattern in general - I don't mind some interaction in a job, but I don't like to be micromanaged, and I also can't work all day in a job that requires being social all the time - its too tiring for me to be so extroverted.

 

I actually worked in a bakery at one time, and the baker had left hairdressing for much the same reason - she was just an introvert by nature and so preferred to work alone or with a small group.

 

I've also realized that I am not a good fit for jobs with a lot of loud noises.

 

Another important thing for young people I think is to really consider the lifestyle associated with a job.  Is it compatible with the kind of family life you want?  Id this a job that will mean living in the city when you want to live in a rural area?  Will you have to move away from the place your extended family lives?

 

Often, those kinds of things are more important to a happy working life that the more obvious things people think about.

[Pegasus]

I think the tricky part comes as we try to provide career guidance to someone else. No matter how well we think we know them, we can't really predict what they will ultimately be successful at and enjoy.

 

I was talking to someone recently about this.  He and his wife are both engineers and guided their children to pursue a STEM career.  The first son did this, launched successfully, and is satisified with his career.  The second son expressed unhappiness with academics and kept saying that he wanted to be a mechanic.  His parents dismissed this as nonsense because he had never shown a desire to tinker with mechanical things and had never even attempted to change his own oil.  Eventually, this son dropped out of university and took a job at a Jiffy Lube place to support himself and started taking courses in mechanics.  He is now a mechanic and very happy. 

[Lolly]

Maybe part of the problem is the incredible amount of time one has to put into extended education in order to gain employment in a profession these days. Once you have put the time  and money into a career choice, you are a bit stuck there once you are actually qualified for the job and get to try it out. Sure, some careers you can sort of try along the way. Others, not so much. Not to mention that a little job shadowing doesn't give an accurate feel at all. Not enough to know that it won't suit you. It would be best if there were less school class time and more apprenticeship type of learning so that people could try jobs out before they are fully invested.

[Gwen in VA]

One confusing thing is the sheer variety of jobs available in any one career field.

 

For example, given a background in computer science you can work in a stress-filled money-rich financial investment firm in NYC or a small laid-back tech company in the boonies or a nerdy geeky firm in Silicon Valley or a smooth Ivy-filled consulting company in a large city or a local hospital or a customer-focused firm in a medium city. All with the same basic background.

 

And some of it is the luck of the draw. Good job offers are hard to find, and even if you have a vision of where you'd like to end up, the hiring folks at the companies you are interviewing at may not agree. And you can end up in a place you never imagined, despite your degree being in a reasonable field for your aspirations.

 

Sometimes life happens, and you make the best of it.

 

 

[Arcadia]

DS10 choices are

 

1) astronaut - but he knows the chance is very very low, wanted since he was three.

2) architect or design engineer - to put food on the table and still not be bored at work

3) cupcake shop owner - when he has enough capital to open up and hire staff while maintaining job (2) and running the shop after work and on weekends/holidays

 

This kid is pretty much big bustling city like hubby and I. It would be interesting to see how his choices evolve over the years. He is rather pragmatic.

 

I did find it easy to branch out after my engineering degree into finance, law and other areas of work. Hubby choose to stay in the engineering field in terms of career.

[regentrude]

I think it is important that the teens know their personality types, preferences, how they work best. They can figure this out through personality tests and a variety of experiences; part time jobs and extracurriculars. But this said, I would never discourage a student from pursuing a specific degree he is interested in, because within one degree, there is a multitude of jobs it can be used for.

 

I have a PhD in physics, was successful doing research, but never felt quite in the right place. Compared to some colleagues who live and breathe research, I never felt that I belonged, because I wasn't like them. I did not know until my 30s that my personality type is ESFJ  with extremely strong extroversion, and that what I was missing as a researcher was the direct contact with people. I am now teaching and love it; the job plays to my strengths (J helps me be very organized, F lets me empathize with students, E lets me thrive in a classroom in front of people).

 

I do not think it wise to select a degree program based on the wish to do a specific job. The major should be selected because the student has a genuine interest in the field. Afterwards, she will be able to search for a job placement that allows her abilities to shine. As parents, we may have no idea what all is out there or will be in a few years. Our kids' future will hold jobs that have not been created yet and that we can't fathom. I'd always encourage pursuing the passion if it has some prospect of gainful employment (I would discourage anybody but an extraordinarily talented artist from pursuing an artistic career, and even then offer lots of warnings)

 

Ultimately, I believe the young person has to figure it out herself. The dancer the OP mentioned who can't dance well will eventually notice, and hopefully have a kind teacher who tells her she is not cut out for a professional career. But if her passion is in dance, there may be other avenues within the dance world?

 

Lastly, we can't ever know what will happen. When I began college, I could not have forseen that the Iron curtain would ever fall, that I would ever travel overseas, that I would eventually immigrate to the US, that I would end up in a small town in the Midwest, that I would be teaching at a college. None of this was remotely forseeable when I started university.

So, I have no idea where my kids will end up, how the world will change between now and then, what opportunities they will have available. Unless the dream is completely unrealistic, they should try.

[creekland]

I tell my kids (both mine and mine at school) to find an area they think they like and head in that direction.  Meanwhile, keep both their eyes and minds open.  Something else might be out there that pulls them in.  It could be a related field they didn't know about or it could be a totally different option they didn't know about.

 

IME most eventually do find something.  It can just take some twists and turns to reach the destination.  A bit of that is also them discovering who they are - a totally natural development.  It's not always bad to try something to see if it works.  One rarely "loses" from experiences in life (assuming no massive amounts of debt are incurred to get there).

 

I also discuss the differences between "big city" and "small town."  I have a strong preference for "small town" myself, esp after experiencing different dimensions of "big city."  My guys will decide for themselves, of course.

 

Since I generally deal with juniors and seniors in school, this topic comes up often.  Very, very often.  Yesterday is actually the most recent time it came up.  ;)  It should come up.  It's stressful for kids to think they have to know what they are going to do.  No, you don't have to know!  Just pick something that seems reasonable and keep your eyes and minds open along your path.

 

Besides, as Regentrude mentioned, no one truly knows where life will take them.  As a senior in high school I would never have guessed I'd be living in southern PA and working in a ps (both by choice)!.

[Bluegoat]

I think the tricky part comes as we try to provide career guidance to someone else. No matter how well we think we know them, we can't really predict what they will ultimately be successful at and enjoy.

 

I was talking to someone recently about this.  He and his wife are both engineers and guided their children to pursue a STEM career.  The first son did this, launched successfully, and is satisified with his career.  The second son expressed unhappiness with academics and kept saying that he wanted to be a mechanic.  His parents dismissed this as nonsense because he had never shown a desire to tinker with mechanical things and had never even attempted to change his own oil.  Eventually, this son dropped out of university and took a job at a Jiffy Lube place to support himself and started taking courses in mechanics.  He is now a mechanic and very happy. 

 

This is an interesting example, because mechanics is one of those things where a lot of young people don't have much opportunity to find out they might like that kind of thing.  Schools don't give students many opportunities to work with their hands, especially ones that do well academically.  And many people get no chance at home for anything like that.

[at the beach]

To the OP's question: How do we find a balance between encouraging our kids to "follow their dreams" and at the same time to "know thyself"?"  I think all we can do is encourage kids to try things, be supportive of their efforts, and set an example by living a life that emphasizes the values we hope they will adopt. It doesn't work to tell people what does or doesn't suit them. I agree that this is something people must learn on their own. It's not usually those who pursue dreams and fail that are bitter and hard to be around IMO. Like creekland said, people don't generally "lose" from experiences as long as they aren't incurring unreasonable debt while pursuing their goals.  

 

Our oldest daughter pursued a six-year professional program right out of high school. She did fine in it, and she worked in a pharmacy starting the spring of her senior year of high school and all through college, so she had an idea of what she was getting into. She also could have switched out of her program and graduated in four years with another degree like biology. She graduated a few years ago and likes it. Middle daughter wanted to study medicine for a long time but eventually decided to pursue a BSN when she started college this fall. She liked a lot about nursing when she shadowed and felt it would be a practical degree. She quickly realized the heart doesn't care about practical. She still thinks she wants the opportunity to work toward going straight to medical school after college even if she has some concerns about that path. So she's considering changing her major to something in arts and sciences with premed for next semester. She isn't sure she is ready to commit to a professional program yet. Of course, she needed to discover this on her own.  

[G5052]

Yes, you can tell kids "do what you love," but it's more complicated than that. Sometimes what you love won't pay the bills. Sometimes what you love isn't really what you love when you get there. And sometimes getting there requires more academic preparation and commitment than you really have inside.

 

I'm telling mine to find a major they like and to make sure they do multiple internships/co-ops/summer gigs.

 

And be flexible. Although I teach what I studied at the college-level part-time, very little of it reflects what I learned in college. In one of the classes, the first graded assignment involves a very basic procedure I did as an undergraduate, and then the rest of the course is material that is less than a decade old, if that.  My other paid work is in a field that I barely touched on in college. But if you have the degree and can learn new material, sometimes unexpected paths become available.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

TBH, I don't think I would ever encourage a child who was looking mainly for career training to go to university without some defined goals, unless it could be pretty much paid for. 

 

I'd be much more likely to tell them to get a job that could in itself lead to some thoughts about a career, or get training in a trade, or a skill that is fairly marketable but doesn't take 4 years and a heap of debt to acquire.  Even something like secretarial skills can be very flexible and provide employment while going to school later if required.

 

I would also be very inclined to raise the possibility of using "education" funds for starting a business, either right away or in a few years after gaining some experience or other skill.

[Nan in Mass]

In high school, I remember announcing to my father that I wanted to have a farm. I had just been patting the sheep at the fair. My father point blank told me I would hate it and listed a few specifics. Obviously, that approach was somewhat upsetting. I still remember it all these years later. But part of what impressed me was how right he was, and how I hadn,t seen those things before he pointed them out. I,m sure I announced other future ambitions as well, over the years, and my parents dealt with them more subtly, by asking someone in the field to tell me what their job was like, or giving me appealing autobiographical books to read that pointed out the good and the bad (like All Creatures Great and Small). I remember being told I had to decide for myself. I remember being told that it was ok not to know when I went off to college, that in that case, I had two years to pick a major and that I should pick one I found interesting. They encouraged us to explore and talk to people and try things, and strongly encouraged us to be aware of our likes and dislikes, our strengths and limitations. Various suitable jobs and professions were suggested. If I suggested something they really thought wouldn,t be a good idea, they said, "But wouldn,t you find blank hard?" or "Don,t you think it would be a little difficult for you to blank?" They assumed that if it was something that was more than a passing interest, I would be able to overcome their objections and mild disapproval, and at that point, they would have supported and encouraged me as best they could. I am not sure they were right about that in my particular case, because I was especially young for my age, but I think the idea is sound and we did something similar with our boys. Two picked professions that worried/worry us, but we did/are doing our best to support those choices. The colleges they chose do a good job of ensuring that the students know what they are getting into early in their education, fortunately, so in their case, we don,t have to worry about them investing years of their lives in something only to find that studying it is something very different than working at it. Even in that case, there are other options, as Regentrude pointed out. We know research doctors, musicians who teach, artists who have interior decorating companies, mediocre dancers who are passing their love of dance on to small children, theatre lovers who run community theatres, nurses who switched from high pressure hospital work to being a school nurse or running clinical trails, engineers who do all sorts of tangential things... I think most majors have multiple uses, but my experience is very regional.

 

I agree that the journey between impractical dreams and a practical, satisfying job is sometimes difficult and that helping our beloved children to navigate it is tricky.

 

Nan

[Gwen in VA]

And parents don't have all the answers.

 

My ds2 dropped out of college to pursue his dream career. He has ended up living the dream -- for the past 2.5 years he has been doing what he was going to college to learn to do, but he is getting paid to learn it and do it! And his paid education has involved not only making awesome connections but also having meetings with CEO's in which he is the only rep from his company.. Yup -- he's living out his dream.

 

Did dh and I approve of his dropping out of college? Of course not! We voiced our opinion and he went on his merry way. We have since told him that we are SO glad that he followed his dream and didn't follow our advice.

 

And our son with the great education in a STEM field is the one who has had trouble finding a job.....

 

Parents can definitely sound cautionary notes, but we can't know for sure what will and won't work out. Our kids need to have the freedom to follow their own star (as long as it doesn't impinge too much on our pocketbook)!

[J-rap]

It IS difficult, and interests evolve as the person evolves. Also, many early career interests are shaped by early experiences, but with new experiences come new interests.

 

Our small town is super into the arts, and my kids all took a liking to it immediately.  It turned out that they weren't shy on stage and loved it, and then a feature film came to our town and our kids were selected to be the children in it.  (Mostly because they were homeschooled and available for 30 days of shooting!)  That and a multitude of similar experiences made them all want to pursue the arts (not necessarily film) in one way or another.  They were very passionate about it.

 

So that is tricky, because though we want to encourage our children to pursue their dreams, do we really want them to be struggling artists all their live?  What kind of life is that?

 

And then there is the personality thing.  Even within my family, some are more assertive, type-A, leader-type people, and others are quieter and would prefer to be followers.  So there is that.

 

I think the best we can do is to have on-going conversations with them through the years.  Be realistic, without completely smashing their dreams.  Dreams are good.  Often it is people with big visions/dreams who make the big advances.  But practical skills are necessary too.  And I think most young college-aged kids don't really yet have a grasp on money and what they will want and need to raise their own families in the future.

 

My son went to school to act in NYC with the hope of writing and directing his own films.  He is still working toward that goal (in fact his first film is being premiered later this month :)), but he also realizes that the chance of him really making it in the industry is small.  So, he has also gone back to university now to get a degree in business with a particular emphasis, and in fact has a full-time job in that degree area now.  So he is pursuing two careers at once.

 

My daughter went to school for graphic arts but added marketing and business.  She has good business skills and is multi-lingual, so I think (hope) she has some extra skills that will help her.

 

Another daughter is a performing artist and has as of yet decided against college.  She is smart, but has chosen to not waste money on college right now and is putting her time and money into shows, tours, and making recordings instead.  She is quite aware, I believe, that it may not amount to anything long-term, and we have discussed it often with her.  (We never told her to just pursue her dreams.)  She still wants to give it a go.

 

Well, I won't go on about my other children.  These are just examples.  I don't know.  I think that's a great question, and I still think on-going conversations about it as the children are growing up is the best course of action. 

 

But my other thought is that if we had been a different kind of family and lived in a different town with different experiences, I think my kids would all have loved the sciences.  Sometimes I feel like we cheated them by not exposing them to that environment as much as the arts. 

 

I guess that's just the way life is.  We are all so much a product of our environment.