How do you teach wars, without seeming "and we got them in the end!!"?

[3 ladybugs]

My son is learning german outside the home. He is 7 next month. As he gets older it is harder and harder for me to talk around him about even current events (he hears me talking to my husband about things and then asks) without mentioning WWII. I am also looking for books on WWI so he hears about that sometimes. I don't want him to hate Germany or Germans, however the government did loose both wars and did awful things to people. So far I have danced around the issue afraid that if I said the wrong thing, he might say something wrong in class, or just not want to learn german (which I really think is good for him!)

 

So how do you teach about war while being proud of America, and not doing blanket statements against the average person on the other side? I try to show both sides of the story but some things that are unspeakable (like the holocaust) there really isn't another side other then pure evil. I am not saying I am going to teach the holocaust either to my 7 year old, but eventually I will need to know how to do this. ;) I am also wondering just in general. 

[mommymilkies]

Some books do a good job of this.  The History of US, K12's Human Odyssey, and The Century both don't look at it as much as Us vs. Them. 

 

But then again I don't approach this as a way to be "proud of America" but certainly proud of individual achievements and happy for some outcomes while grieving over others.  I never speak in blanket statements except maybe about Nazis, I'll admit.  Even then I force myself to speak about the pressure many normal people felt and how things escalated so much (end of WWI, financial hardhip, etc.).  I have family who died in the Holocaust, so that one is difficult for me, but I do try. 

[sbgrace]

I think it will be easier as he gets older. Older kids see with broader eyes.
 

In this case, all of history has examples of atrocities, cruelty, and evil (ie Assyrians, crusades, Cambodian genocide, Hiroshima/Nagasoki, african slave trade, wiping out native americans/govt policies w/them here, etc.) People of all stripes can be evil. People of all nationalities can begin to see others as less than human. Cruelty seems more the norm than anything when you look at the whole of history. That doesn't make the holocaust any less evil or horrific. But there is lots of evil to go around, and in every case (including the holocaust, which was cold blooded evil/especially heinous I agree) there are also good people trying to shine light in the dark. I think it might not come up at his age, but if it does and it seems to be a problem in terms of wanting to stop German, I would probably emphasize that there were also good people, and even our own country has horror in its past. We don't paint whole countries or people as evil.

 

We lived 15 years in an area of the US heavy with original German settlers. There was pride in their German heritage. The German language students in the high school would see the concentration camps when they took trips to Germany. I don't think, honestly, that he's likely to struggle with thinking present day or all of German history is simply evil. If he does, I think your attitude will counter it.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

The Brain Pop videos on WWI and WWII are very good, and I would consider them to be balanced in terms of presentation, obviously there is no question of who the "good guys" were in WWII!  But the videos mention how tough sanctions after WWI lead directly to WWII.  

 

I would just stress to your child that any Germans alive in WWII are now in their 80s, that the German people contained cowards, heroes, and a huge number of people just trying to scrape through.  If you want to show that ANY people could fall into this sort of trap, you can bring up Japanese internment camps.  You can look for child appropriate accounts of people hiding Jews (Number The Stars might still be a little too much for your child's age still)...

 

I don't see how any presentation of WWII could make your child then say, "Germans are bad!" or "I don't want to learn German!"  It would be like saying that because the US government condoned slavery in the past, we should not want to speak English or be American!  

[mommymilkies]

 

 

I don't see how any presentation of WWII could make your child then say, "Germans are bad!" or "I don't want to learn German!"  It would be like saying that because the US government condoned slavery in the past, we should not want to speak English or be American!  

I will say that learning about it made my kids want to learn German.  I didn't idolize any parties, but they did appreciate the peace makers and heroes of each side and even learning about The Holocaust didn't poison their appreciation of the rest of German culture and language.  My Grandmother, though, did feel this way because of her generation.  So I think that can sometimes be passed down.  We just need to remember, like you both said, that it was a long time ago and most every culture has some shameful history. 

[3 ladybugs]

I guess you are all right that it could be his age. I have seen him try to generize other subjects and not in a good way. So hopefully he will grow out of that. Thank you for all the suggestions. 😊

[mommaduck]

Mostly through discussions. There are generally more than two sides to a war. There are all the different people caught up on different sides. WWII was very multifaceted. You can explain both what people's ideals were as well as how propaganda was used to sway people that may not have supported this side or that side otherwise.

[albeto.]

We place focus on specific problems people were trying to solve, and then the efficiency of those solutions (or lack thereof). It won't take long for him to realize solutions, even efficient ones, often create new, unforeseen problems. It's easier to see history as a matter of a series of conflict resolutions rather than "good guys" v. "bad guys." Personally, I think it also helps with social skills, as one is more likely to see a friend's inconsiderate behavior as an attempt to solve a problem, rather than an attempt to be mean. 

[Kathryn]

I guess you are all right that it could be his age. I have seen him try to generize other subjects and not in a good way. So hopefully he will grow out of that. Thank you for all the suggestions. 😊

My 9yo generalized like this a few years ago. What helped was never to say "Germany did this" and "We did that." Emphasize that these were decisions by individuals. So, for instance, "Adolph Hitler led the Germans to do this," "many post-WWI Germans felt like this," and "some Americans at that time did that."

[Curlymom]

When we talk about WWII, I usually refer to Nazis, not necessarily Germans.  That has really helped my kids make a differentiation. That, and they have been exposed to Nazis through pop culture - Indiana Jones and similar things.  We haven't covered WWII officially yet, just in passing.  And, like Indiana Jones, they hate Nazis.

 

Yes, Nazis ended up taking control of the German government, but, in a nutshell, the German government largely went that direction due to the aftermath of WWI, and the way the Allies treated Germany after WWI.  

 

And yes, the Allies won WWII, but at quite a price for both sides.  Just as one example, there has been a lot of news lately about the anniversary of the dropping of the atomic bomb.  My 10 year old has noticed some of the news, and she even said 'I can't believe we were so awful!'.  I was really surprised by her outburst.  

 

It might be useful to talk about modern Germany first before diving into WWII, and how different modern Germany is now.

 

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

I think it's probably helpful with stuff like this to put it in the context of all nations, races etc have done awful things at awful times. We are not immune and that's why it's so absolutely critical to weigh and evaluate information and ideas that are going around. And not turn a blind eye to stuff that might be going on in our own countries.

[Kiara.I]

What about trying to get British or Canadian resources?  Same side during the war, but slightly different perspective.

[Hobbes]

My kids are five and seven years old and very fascinated about WW II (and playing related imaginary games of heroism) because of reading about Corrie ten Boom and some other things. I come from a German background and my very German grandmother sees my children several times a week. My grandmother's family was very much anti-Nazi during the war, and knowing her has certainly made Germans less of the 'enemy'!

 

I've tried to make a point to talk about Nazis vs Germans, because they are two very different things, and that's what my kids refer to (which has thrown back a few people who've overheard them playing!). Also, finding stories to share about Germans who stood up against the Nazis can be a really good idea. Many Germans were absolutely heroic in their efforts to rescue people from the Nazi regime. I think trying to communicate about Germans as individual people, rather than as an enemy unit helps, just as it's accurate to refer to the 'Khmer Rouge' rather than 'Cambodians' when discussing that atrocity.

 

ETA: My great grandfather was forced into the German army despite having deep moral objections... his family would not have survived if he refused. Thankfully (!), their house burned down not long after so he was allowed to come home. All that to say that 'Nazi' isn't even synonymous with 'German solider'. To me, those individual stories speak volumes when we are trying to communicate to kids about wars and ideologies.

[3 ladybugs]

Where do you find German resistance stories? I consider myself a bit fascinated by that time in history and I don't know many stories other then Maximilan Kolbe whom I accidentally named my eldest after, but he was a priest.

[Hobbes]

Where do you find German resistance stories? I consider myself a bit fascinated by that time in history and I don't know many stories other then Maximilan Kolbe whom I accidentally named my eldest after, but he was a priest.

I haven't found any kids' books on this topic, so it's basically me telling them kid-appropriate versions (especially since a lot of the stories involve people operating in the face of great evil and none are perfect). But some that come to mind are Oskar Schindler, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Georg Duckwitz, Werner Klemke, Karl Plagge (had to Google to remind myself of some of those!). And our family has the benefit of the personal stories my grandparents told - amazing stuff. :)

 

Another one: http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteous/stories/abegg.asp

[Reefgazer]

When I teach major events, I try to teach the causes/historical context of the event, mention who all the players are and what their role was, what the outcome was (of course), and what alternatives there were to the path the aggressors and victors eventually took.  I think that's more easily accomplished with middle and high schoolers, so I think your best bet with a 7 year old is just the facts, with a few key details (who our allies were, a major cause of two of an event, the eventual outcome).  I think with a 7 year old, tone matters, so I wouldn't be dancing a jig when I discussed the outcome, even though victory over the Nazis and what they did was pretty jig-worthy.  It's especially important to watch tone when there are many people (myself included) of German descent scattered throughout the US.

[Reefgazer]

It's interesting to me how this is passed down through the generations.  When I was a kid, most people my parents' age (WWII era) wouldn't buy Japanese cars, and they'd tell you in no uncertain terms why.   The hatred of the Japanese didn't transfer down, but it's weird how you tend to do what you parents did (go to the same religious services, cook the same food, etc), which also includes gravitating to the Chevy dealer rather than, say, the Mitsubishi dealer.  Even now, I cannot get my DH to consider a Japanese-made car, and it seems obvious to me why - his dad was in the Pacific theater in WWII and in Japan when the war ended and they (and my own parents) would have ridden a goat somewhere rather than buy a Japanese car.

I will say that learning about it made my kids want to learn German.  I didn't idolize any parties, but they did appreciate the peace makers and heroes of each side and even learning about The Holocaust didn't poison their appreciation of the rest of German culture and language.  My Grandmother, though, did feel this way because of her generation.  So I think that can sometimes be passed down.  We just need to remember, like you both said, that it was a long time ago and most every culture has some shameful history. 

 

[Arcadia]

When my kids were in kindergarten, they learn about many of the ancient wars from Vikings to Julius Caesar to Ottoman Empire. They also learn about the atomic bombs. They don't think of anyone as good or bad, winners or losers. They think more of how many people die in the process.

 

My kids attend a weekly german class. The parents talk more about the Berlin wall (reunification), the EU situation, family back home and cost of airfares to Germany. I have not heard anyone discuss about world wars in or outside German class. The kids textbooks are about kids topics like making friends, travelling and buying things.

[MistyMountain]

My ds is really into reading about history and wars. I did not want to introduce certain things like World War I and World War II but he wanted to learn about it. The first he heard about the nazis was in UU and in then in a Patricia Polacco book. We eventually did books made for kids about WWII and I let him watch documentaries if they are rated PG. He has also watched the brain pop videos. My dd does not like books about wars or documentaries about it but she did talk about it in UU and has seen one of the brain pop videos on the topic and read the Patricia Polacco picture book (The Butterfly) so she knows about the nazis too.

 

Since we read a lot of history ds is exposed to the fact that any country or region can do things that are bad or evil but that the people in those places are just people. DS knows not everyone is for a war or actions that happen. The picture book Patrol is really short but it is a good jumping off place for that conversation. DS knows the nazis did evil things and Germans were not on our side in at least 3 wars but he does not judge Germans. He admires how they built planes during the war while knowing that it was wrong what they were doing. He heard about bad things we did in our country like slavery, dropping the atomic bomb and what we did to the Native Americans when we started settling in America but he is very proud to be an American. I do not find introducing the subject to be an issue if you stick to age appropriate resources but I do not think it is neccasary at a certain age if you wanted to wait until years down the line.

[MEmama]

My kids are five and seven years old and very fascinated about WW II (and playing related imaginary games of heroism) because of reading about Corrie ten Boom and some other things. I come from a German background and my very German grandmother sees my children several times a week. My grandmother's family was very much anti-Nazi during the war, and knowing her has certainly made Germans less of the 'enemy'!

 

I've tried to make a point to talk about Nazis vs Germans, because they are two very different things, and that's what my kids refer to (which has thrown back a few people who've overheard them playing!). Also, finding stories to share about Germans who stood up against the Nazis can be a really good idea. Many Germans were absolutely heroic in their efforts to rescue people from the Nazi regime. I think trying to communicate about Germans as individual people, rather than as an enemy unit helps, just as it's accurate to refer to the 'Khmer Rouge' rather than 'Cambodians' when discussing that atrocity.

 

ETA: My great grandfather was forced into the German army despite having deep moral objections... his family would not have survived if he refused. Thankfully (!), their house burned down not long after so he was allowed to come home. All that to say that 'Nazi' isn't even synonymous with 'German solider'. To me, those individual stories speak volumes when we are trying to communicate to kids about wars and ideologies.

Right.

 

My grandfather was also forced to serve in the German army. My mother knows very few details because no one would talk about it during or after. They were not Nazi sympathisers, a fact drilled into her head her entire childhood.

 

Choices for average German families during the war were few to non existent.

 

When teaching or talking about the world wars--any war-- one should refer to the people involved correctly. The Nazi party, not the German people, brought about the horrors in WW2 and any child can differentiate. Political parties rarely have the best interests of their people in mind; this has been true through all of history. I do not think it is a difficult concept to illustrate, but rather obvious and clear as one studies further. It is also simple to illustrate that while history may be written by the "winners", there is another side that must be told and understood. "Winning", additionally, isn't always synonymous with "being right". This can be easily pointed out during any trip to a busy playground.