Is it curricula or just normal forgetting? My dd can't tell me cause of WW2

[momee]

After a lot of money, alot of time and alot of hard work I am stepping back and taking a good look at what we did for middle child's high school.

 

She can't really explain democracy, how the systems of government work nor remember what were some of the factors/causes in World War 2.

 

She did the work, read the books, etc.

 

How might I better determine if it was my lack of discussion with her or lack of taking tests (this company doesn't require tests - just read and discuss), if it was the books, or just a matter of her simply not remembering?

 

 

[The Girls' Mom]

If she had no real interest in it, it may just be normal forgetting.  I promptly forgot 90% of everything I learned in high school once I passed the test and got the grade.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Probably a combination.  

[EKS]

Memories that are not accessed will fade and eventually be lost.  It is normal for a person to forget things that they learn once and then never think about again.  Discussion helps because it requires the student to keep the information in mind over a period of time.  Tests actually help encourage memory formation because the require the student to retrieve the information and this creates a more stable memory.  

 

[wintermom]

Those are all extremely complex topics. If you don't have assessment tools for yourself, how do you know how much information she "can't really explain." Maybe she does understand a fair amount, but not exactly what you are expecting her to say. Perhaps you can have her do a project where she includes some very specific information. Testing is not the only way, nor even always the best way, to measure understanding. 

[Another Lynn]

After a lot of money, alot of time and alot of hard work I am stepping back and taking a good look at what we did for middle child's high school.

 

She can't really explain democracy, how the systems of government work nor remember what were some of the factors/causes in World War 2.

 

She did the work, read the books, etc.

 

How might I better determine if it was my lack of discussion with her or lack of taking tests (this company doesn't require tests - just read and discuss), if it was the books, or just a matter of her simply not remembering?

 

 

It might be related to lack of discussion or lack of testing.  I guess I would be thinking through what kind of output I had her do and whether that was sufficient?

 

Don't beat yourself up.  I also remember a time several years ago I was going through older school work when my oldest walked through the room.  "What's that?" he asked me.  Ummmmm, only your history notebook from a year ago with your very own writing and drawings....  "Really?  I don't remember that at all."  Great......

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have a hard time explaining those things myself FWIW. 

 

Some stuff I just don't remember.  Maybe I'm not interested or maybe there is just so much to remember. 

[regentrude]

Lack of discussion. These are things that would, in our house, come up in normal conversation completely without taking a designated course and are retained when they become meaningful in discussions with people about regular stuff  like current events (in other words, not as part of "school")

I do not see any connection with retention and tests; cramming into short term memory is useless for long term retention.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Lack of discussion. These are things that would, in our house, come up in normal conversation completely without taking a designated course and are retained when they become meaningful in discussions with people about regular stuff  like current events (in other words, not as part of "school")

I do not see any connection with retention and tests; cramming into short term memory is useless for long term retention.

 

This.

 

It's not going to happen for everything; the world is just too big. I know that my boys have an awful lot of information just shelved somewhere in the brain, details forgotten...the hope is that if they need it, they'll remember. More importantly, they've learned the Story of the World, so to speak, to know where people and events belong. It's enough.

 

But a goodly amount of knowledge is retained through use. If we cover the content in our homeschool setting for the first time (usually), we can dig the knowledge back out as it relates to the day's current events, movies, museum exhibits, family memories, whatever.

 

Or sometimes, we first encounter the facts through all of those things, and then review and learn more in school when we come to that topic.

 

To me, this is one of the top advantages of homeschooling. I know what my children learned about in second grade (because I taught them and lived with them), so I can make those connections when they appear to me, six years later.

[EKS]

I do not see any connection with retention and tests; cramming into short term memory is useless for long term retention.

 

Memory formation is not improved by cramming for the test--it is improved by the act of retrieval required by the test.  

 

That said, I don't give my kids history tests.  We do a lot of discussion, and they write some.  I'm just happy that my kids have enjoyed our history lessons over the years.  I figure that they remember what they remember, and I'm not going to worry about what they've forgotten.

[CAtoVA]

I would consider  what I had required as "output" like another poster suggested. Did you ask your child to apply, synthesize or evaluate any information as you were learning it? I'm not against testing per se, but I also like "projects" where a student needs to create/develop something "new" with material/information learned. If a child interacts deeply with information he/she most likely will remember more (and will find it more useful and engaging, hopefully).

[Tranquility7]

Learned information fades extremely quickly without regular retrieval of it (whatever the format that retrieval takes), so I'd say for your daughter, the problem is simply normal forgetting that occurs with lack of use/retrieval of the information.

 

Memory formation is not improved by cramming for the test--it is improved by the act of retrieval required by the test.  

 

That said, I don't give my kids history tests.  We do a lot of discussion, and they write some.  I'm just happy that my kids have enjoyed our history lessons over the years.  I figure that they remember what they remember, and I'm not going to worry about what they've forgotten.

 

:iagree:  Regular retrieval of information is how it gets stored in longterm memory. Retrieval + elaboration upon that information (which happens during discussions, particularly when we are connecting new information to previously learned information) makes that longterm memory even more solid.

 

Our society and education system tend to regard tests as a "measure of learning" when really they should be regarded more as a "tool for learning". I never "test" my kids in the traditional sense - only for required standardized testing do they sit for a written test - but 4-5 times per week we do our Anki reviews which are a prime time for all of us (myself included) to practice retrieval of info, as well as elaborate upon it based on what we have learned since the last time we encountered that bit of info. Without that regular review, we simply start forgetting what we have learned.

 

[Tranquility7]

By the way, you might like this book - Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning. Fascinating stuff, and an enjoyable read imho.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The cause of WWII is a pretty broad thing with multiple answers.  Asking more specific questions might get better answers and not a deer-in-the-headlights look.  Ie.  What caused the US to enter WWII in Europe?  What caused the US to declare war against Japan?  

[klmama]

Lack of interest leads to lack of review which leads to forgetting.  One of mine loves history, spent years reading history for fun, makes all the connections easily, and remembers the details.  Another only reads what I require and tends to give somewhat vague responses to questions.  That one needs a lot more discussion time, and game-playing with the material helps to cement it.  I'm planning to use AP history review cards this year to play some games.