CLE Math Help

[LAmom]

My 9yo is doing CLE Math 4.  We go over the new concept together, after he does the speed drill, and then he does the review.  EVERY DAY he gets A LOT of problems wrong in the review, especially the addition, multiplication section, and all the word problems.  I go over the problems with him EVERY DAY and tell him to slow down, think about his math facts.  What is going on here?  Do I back up and just review math facts?  He understands adding and multiplying.  It usually is off by 1 number or so.  It has been so frustrating.  He spends an hour doing math and then when I correct it, he has to redo it all.  I don't know what is going on.  ??  

[Critterfixer]

I have noticed a much lower rate in simple math errors when the boys are checking each section in CLE after they complete it. It might force him to slow down if he had to check every problem before moving on to the next. 

Having them check seems to make the error register with them far better than having me point it out. Don't know why it is that way, but it seems to be the case.

[ktgrok]

I agree, check each problem as they complete it. That way they get annoyed at redoing and are more careful on the next one. Teaching Textbooks works that way and my son lost all of his careless habits using it. 

[OneStepAtATime]

You might also consider getting an eye exam from a Developmental Optometrist to check for things like convergence issues, heterophoria, etc.  DS has more that perfect visual acuity.  He passed every single eye exam through a normal optometrist or ophthalmologist for years.  It wasn't until I had him screened through a Developmental Optometrist that they finally discovered why he seemed to have some weird eye hand coordination issues (not severe at all, just a bit off) and lining up math problems, etc. was challenging.  He has heterophoria.  One eye tracks slightly out of alignment, but it isn't noticeable unless you know what to look for.  Vision Therapy helped.

[sbgrace]

If I am understanding that your son remembers the concepts, but makes basic math calculation errors, I would keep moving on.

 

I check my inattentive son after each heavy on calculation problem. This means his math takes me longer. I also give him a bit of a reward (coins towards media) for correct work.

[ktgrok]

You might also consider getting an eye exam from a Developmental Optometrist to check for things like convergence issues, heterophoria, etc.  DS has more that perfect visual acuity.  He passed every single eye exam through a normal optometrist or ophthalmologist for years.  It wasn't until I had him screened through a Developmental Optometrist that they finally discovered why he seemed to have some weird eye hand coordination issues (not severe at all, just a bit off) and lining up math problems, etc. was challenging.  He has heterophoria.  One eye tracks slightly out of alignment, but it isn't noticeable unless you know what to look for.  Vision Therapy helped.

 

Good point, I have eye convergence issues. Never diagnosed until recently. I have a horrid time reading the numbers off my credit card. If there are 3 or 4 zeros in a row I can't tell how many. 

[lorisuewho]

I'm in CLE Math 4 with my second son and it has been rough for us.  He is making a lot of errors and there has been crying.  So what I did was to cross off lightly half of the review problems.  Then when I check his work if he has any errors he must do the other problems in that section.  So for instance if he carelessly made an addition mistake in a multiplication problem, then I erase the X over the multiplication problems he wasn't required to do and have him do those.  It has made him a bit more careful so he can avoid doing extra work.  However, I will say that I think CLE 4 is just too much work for my child.  It is easy to get a lot wrong when there are so many problems to do and he is getting tired.  We are looking at switching programs at this point if the crossing out problems doesn't work.

[sbgrace]

I'm in CLE Math 4 with my second son and it has been rough for us.  He is making a lot of errors and there has been crying.  So what I did was to cross off lightly half of the review problems.  Then when I check his work if he has any errors he must do the other problems in that section.  So for instance if he carelessly made an addition mistake in a multiplication problem, then I erase the X over the multiplication problems he wasn't required to do and have him do those.  It has made him a bit more careful so he can avoid doing extra work.  However, I will say that I think CLE 4 is just too much work for my child.  It is easy to get a lot wrong when there are so many problems to do and he is getting tired.  We are looking at switching programs at this point if the crossing out problems doesn't work.

 

Lori, I mark the problems that aren't calculation heavy (quick stuff) for my son to do independently. This will usually be about 1/2 a lesson. Then, later, I sit with him for the remainder (new stuff and calculation heavy). This splits every CLE lesson into two, lets me adjust the number of problems to his understanding/tolerance, and lets me note mistakes before he gets so far he has to start all over.

 

[lorisuewho]

Lori, I mark the problems that aren't calculation heavy (quick stuff) for my son to do independently. This will usually be about 1/2 a lesson. Then, later, I sit with him for the remainder (new stuff and calculation heavy). This splits every CLE lesson into two, lets me adjust the number of problems to his understanding/tolerance, and lets me note mistakes before he gets so far he has to start all over.

 

Thanks for the idea!  I'm open to any suggestions, and this seems like a good one.

 

 

[Sahamamama]

My 9yo is doing CLE Math 4.  We go over the new concept together, after he does the speed drill, and then he does the review.  EVERY DAY he gets A LOT of problems wrong in the review, especially the addition, multiplication section, and all the word problems.  I go over the problems with him EVERY DAY and tell him to slow down, think about his math facts.  What is going on here?  Do I back up and just review math facts?  He understands adding and multiplying.  It usually is off by 1 number or so.  It has been so frustrating.  He spends an hour doing math and then when I correct it, he has to redo it all.  I don't know what is going on.  ??  

 

My recently-turned 10 year old is doing CLE Math 4 this year, also. If we were having the same experience, I would be concerned. Just as a point of reference -- (1) a lesson does not usually take my daughter any longer than 20 minutes, 30 at the most; one hour for a CLE lesson would be a big red flag for me, but I honestly don't know what I'd do about it :huh: ; and (2) she usually gets nearly all the review problems correct, BUT if not, there are a few things I've noticed about her errors:

• In the review/skill builders sections, she sometimes will add instead of subtract or subtract instead of add. Now I insist that when she begins any section with mixed problems, she is to circle the subtraction signs with a red pen. She doesn't confuse multiplication or division, because they are set up differently. But with + and -, she can just blip out and not pay attention. So, the red pen has really helped her to switch gears when she hits the subtraction problems.
• She has left something blank. Just blip. ;) Now, when she says, "I'm done," I tell her to take a minute and "look it over" to be sure all the problems got done, word problems labelled, units of measurement added in, etc.
• It's off by one number, same as your son. I don't know of anything to resolve this, except practice, experience (to build number sense), and time for maturation.

I would be concerned if my student was missing most of the problems, though. That, and taking an hour to complete a lesson. Hmm... if he had errors on most of the problems, I don't think I'd hand it back to him the same day. Maybe you could make the next day's math a "work together" session to take a look at all the little glitches in the errors. You tell him where the errors are, but not what they are. Can he figure out how he went wrong? Then brainstorm to see what he might be able to do over time to have fewer of each type of error. Is he reading the instructions carefully? Simplifying fractions? Changing remainders to fractions? Doing the checks on problems? Do his "checks" turn out to match his answers? Is he using digit sums to check his answers? So, I might make some of the time I spent with him for math just focused on building his understanding of the kinds of errors he makes, and what he thinks might help him to work more accurately the first time through.

 

Or, instead of moving on, could you just park on the lesson, until he realizes that such a high level of errors is going to keep him parked. ???  Not sure about that approach. I'm not sure how much energy I'd want to focus on achieving "perfection." If anything, I think I'd try to shift the focus away from Number-of-Errors to What-Can-We-Learn-from-This? For example, if my daughter does her math work while I am teaching her sisters, she just doesn't focus as much as she does when she works in a quieter setting. This leads to those kinds of errors. So, we've learned to minimize distraction. At the same time, she hates being alone while doing math, because then she associates math with feeling lonely. Sooooo......... we've learned to arrange her math work for a time when we are (or I am) in the room, working quietly, and that is the best of both worlds (quiet, with company).

 

Maybe one lesson per day is too much for him? Could you do three lessons every four days? That would be 3/4ths of a lesson each day, just a slightly slower pace. You could check each section as he completes it, or even watch him while he works, just like we do when our children start copywork or take dictation. HTH.

[Storygirl]

I agree that an hour is too long. My younger kids have just completed the 300 and 400 levels, and none of them would spend that long on a lesson, even my son with ADHD. Perhaps level 400 is too advanced? Your child is only nine, so that seems young for fourth grade materials.

 

Perhaps have him take the CLE placement tests to see if he is in the proper level. Did he use the 300 level before this, or did you switch to CLE from something else? If he did not previously complete the 300 level, 400 might be the wrong placement for him. Are you just starting 400?

 

I also want to say that my kids miss a lot while doing their independent work. I sit with each of them and go over every problem that they made a mistake on. They do not redo their work without my help, because I consider that the prime teaching time, where I address the issues that they are struggling with. Even though they make so many mistakes on their daily work, I know that CLE is working for them, because they score well on the quizzes and tests (A's and B's). I just don't let myself get caught up in the idea that they must be completing their work without mistakes in order for them to be learning. They learn through correcting their mistakes.

 

Does your son get most of the speed drill problems right? If so, then I would assume that the problem is not in mastering the math facts. If there ARE a lot of errors on the speed drill, then I would consider math fact memorization to be a weakness to work on.

[Ewe Mama]

We are going to be starting level 400 very soon, so I am making note of your great ideas. I know we will have to move more slowly than we are now.

[Mommy22alyns]

An hour is definitely too long for a CLE lesson.  My ODD just completed 6th grade and didn't take that long.  I have had both girls do xtramath alongside CLE until they mastered all four operations.  I recommend that and trying to just sit with him while he does a lesson and watch over his shoulder if you can.

[FO4UR]

He may just be fatigued too.

 

 

Have him do a 2-page spread daily instead of a whole lesson.  If that reduces the # of careless errors, then you might consider keeping that pace and just doing math through the summers to keep up.  Or do a 2-page spread in the morning, and the rest of the lesson in the afternoon.

 

An hour is a long time for a child to spend working on math.  20min, and then give him a break.

[Jennifer132]

Can you have him double check his work? Since he's only a number or two off, it sounds like he isn't being careful enough. Double checking could help with that. You could also have him start a bar graph to track number of problems wrong. It could be motivating to see the graph moving downwards on a daily basis.

[kathkath]

Probably needs more automaticity in his fact recall. I'd have him do reflex math daily starting now. Start with addition/subtraction then switch to the multiplication/division part.

[hermione310]

If he's taking a while to complete a speed drill (which would be an indicator that his fact recall isn't very quick), then I second the recommendation for Reflex Math. It worked wonders with my daughter. I also second the recommendation for the CLE placement tests if he hasn't already taken them. I assumed my daughter would start with 300 last year, but after the placement test, it was clear there were some areas CLE covers in 200 that DD hadn't encountered yet.

 

DD's completing CLE 4 now and typically takes no more than 30-45 min. on each lesson. And the 45 min. sessions really only occur if it's late afternoon and she's dilly dallying. An hour seems like an awfully long time.

 

Does it help to have him walk you verbally through the problems he's missed? Might give insight regarding the problem area (if regrouping is the issue vs. multiplication facts, etc.)

 

 

[LAmom]

Thank you for all the helpful suggestions.  I think part of the -taking an hour- is that he is easily distracted by siblings, or basically anything.  Not ADD, just distractible.  Anyways, I do have him redo the problems he gets wrong and he generally then gets them correct.  I want him to carefully do his work so after sitting for a long time doing his math he doesn't have to then go back and correct a lot of it because of sloppy mistakes.  He is slow in his math facts and we are working on that.  I will try some of the above suggestions and see if that works.

 

Also, Reflex Math is $35 per student?  It looks great but I would want to use it for 3 kids.  $$$ Any free things like it?  

[OneStepAtATime]

Does he have a quieter place he can go?  Could you let him do something more physical before starting math?  It might help with focus.

 

And I would cross out some of the review.  It can be overwhelming.  I don't know about you, but when I feel overwhelmed, I sometimes slow down.  

 

Is he using his reference chart?  Let him work on math facts with the flash cards and drills separately and use the reference chart when he is stuck during normal lessons.  Math facts will continue to be worked on with targeted, separate, review all through Level 500, too, so there is time.

 

Maybe skip the quizzes and have a fun math day on Fridays, or something, to break things up but still work on math.  Do some mathy games, do just a limited number of problems with colored markers on a dry erase and make up word problems to base them on.  Just anything to bring some joy into math.  It might also help.

 

Good luck.