QueenCat Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 In light of other recent discussions, I thought some of you might find this article interesting. It shows income distribution in several different major cities, which lends some perspective to why people have differing thoughts on what is middle class income. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The differences shown are quite large, but none of the cities had medians even close to $250,000 per year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 At the bottom of the article, it said Silicon Valley's top 13% earn $250,000 or more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The data shows that the middle, even in HCOL areas, is still not $250k+ or even $125k+. Plenty of people who are not poor are getting by in cities with far less than $250k. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 One reason why we haven't taken a transfer to the city DH's company is in, and DH has chosen to stay at a satellite office is that he currently has a salary that would be middle class in the urban area the company is in-and is in a much lower COL area. A house that is $500K there is under $200K here, for example. It's definitely easier to have a parent home full-time here than it would be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't recall anyone saying $250K was poverty, though I might have missed that thread. I think the link does a good job of explaining why the line between "middle class" and "rich" depends on where you live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't recall anyone saying $250K was poverty, though I might have missed that thread. I think the link does a good job of explaining why the line between "middle class" and "rich" depends on where you live. I agree -- did we ever have a discussion about $250K? I thought the big huge debate was about people making $150K a year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't know how convinced I feel by a comparison of 30 cities though. There are so many cities! I was surprised by some of the averages listed for some of those cities. I have read the stats for the city I reside in, and I just have a tough time believing them. Of course the stats tend to be rather dated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I agree -- did we ever have a discussion about $250K? I thought the big huge debate was about people making $150K a year.The $250k was about the college girl who thought her family was middle class earning that much near Silicon Valley (?). The data in this thread shows that despite the high cost of living where she grew up, her family was still very much in the affluent range. I think the $150k debate was in a different thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I agree -- did we ever have a discussion about $250K? I thought the big huge debate was about people making $150K a year. There was a shorter discussion about an article (referenced in the link in the OP) written by someone who considered herself middle class when her family made $250,000 in a HCOL city. This data clearly shows that a $250,000 salary is going to put you in the highest wage brackets anywhere in the US. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I agree -- did we ever have a discussion about $250K? I thought the big huge debate was about people making $150K a year. I know I pointed out that $250k, while quite privileged, is not elite in that it's not enough money to translate into substantial political power. I think that some people felt I was making a semantic argument but I don't think so. No way in heck did I intend to suggest that $250k was in any way middle class. Obviously not. (ETA--For the record, I have worked in the public sector my whole life and have the salary to prove it, lol. I'm not in the business of defending anybody.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 I agree -- did we ever have a discussion about $250K? I thought the big huge debate was about people making $150K a year. 250k is mentioned in a quote at the top of the article linked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't trust that article. I have lived outside Boston (in Cambridge) and while my husband had a base salary of around $50K at the time, he brought home more due to bonuses and other things. Also I was working at the time (we were just married and had no children). I felt like we were lucky to be doing as well as we were but I also know that a lot had to do with MY additional income. I also assume that things have went up since we last lived there 10 years ago! Our rent back then for a 1 bedroom, 800 sq foot (which I know is large for a 1 bedroom) was $2000 a month. Now I live 1 hour outside NYC and I have a REALLY hard time believing there is ANY family that is living in NYC that is only earning 100K a year. Maybe a few single people living in something smaller then my living room (which trust me is small) but certainly no families! And those that are, are living in what I would think of as poor areas and probably are still barely making it, if that. 11 years ago when I was a nanny, the family I was with had a brother that was purchasing in NYC (Manhattan after 9/11) and he was paying an insane amount PER foot! That is how they priced it! And he had to fix it up! Luckily his dad was architect. Look I am not some privilege person. I was on food stamps a few times in my life, but those numbers compared to the real world... well lets just say I see now why entitlement programs are growing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't trust that article. I have lived outside Boston (in Cambridge) and while my husband had a base salary of around $50K at the time, he brought home more due to bonuses and other things. Also I was working at the time (we were just married and had no children). I felt like we were lucky to be doing as well as we were but I also know that a lot had to do with MY additional income. I also assume that things have went up since we last lived there 10 years ago! Our rent back then for a 1 bedroom, 800 sq foot (which I know is large for a 1 bedroom) was $2000 a month. Now I live 1 hour outside NYC and I have a REALLY hard time believing there is ANY family that is living in NYC that is only earning 100K a year. Maybe a few single people living in something smaller then my living room (which trust me is small) but certainly no families! And those that are, are living in what I would think of as poor areas and probably are still barely making it, if that. 11 years ago when I was a nanny, the family I was with had a brother that was purchasing in NYC (Manhattan after 9/11) and he was paying an insane amount PER foot! That is how they priced it! And he had to fix it up! Luckily his dad was architect. Look I am not some privilege person. I was on food stamps a few times in my life, but those numbers compared to the real world... well lets just say I see now why entitlement programs are growing! Do you mean manhattan? Because all those dishwashers and hotel maids live somewhere. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Do you mean manhattan? Because all those dishwashers and hotel maids live somewhere. I guess I do mean Manhattan. I know that there has to be cheaper housing off Manhattan, but honestly I don't consider maids and dishwashers middle class. Those jobs are jobs you start out on (well maybe not a head maid but certainly a dishwasher) when you first start out. Anyway, I know I certainly wasn't middle class when I was a nanny... even though I was a live in... though maybe people would consider me middle class because I wasn't paying for my housing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Do you mean manhattan? Because all those dishwashers and hotel maids live somewhere. Do you really think it's Manhattan, though? In Seattle, most workers commute in from other places, much cheaper towns. So, for example, in south Renton you can rent a cheap apartment or share a house and then you commute in one or 1.5 hours for your 3-4 hour shift, hang out at the Safeway (local supermarket, middle priced) cafe until the next shift, verrrry slowly eating a bag of potato chips. In our city people are moving further and further out. Even we live 30 minutes out. The "old guard" has homes in Seattle that they bought in the 70s through early 90s. People in my generation without question either have no kids and live in a studio or single room of a house, or if they have kids, and work in our "median income" workplace, live elsewhere and commute in from at least 20 minutes away plus traffic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Even in the cities there are renters. I know a lot of middle income families in Seattle specifically who rent (we have a high rate of rental housing here). A lot of families I know earning around $100k have bought in the city limits or very near in. We will probably buy in West Seattle, Rainier Valley, South Park or Beacon Hill or that odd spot where the ID hits Rainer near Pill Hill the next time we buy and we were previously in Lake City. Not massive pockets of affordable housing but some. My sons homeschool groups includes scores of these families both renters and homeowners. I know some younger homeowners who make it work by renting an ADU/MIL out to make the mortgage. Others with 2 or 3 kids that prefer a small condo in the city to the suburbs. It's a higher level of density but it's simply not true that only wealthy people, poor people or older people live in the city. ETA- Binip, I am literally sitting in a room outside a kids' art class with a dozen families you imply don't exist, at this very moment :p. I know that there are a lot of workers and families in the situation you outline but again, I am not seeing that as being all there is. I've worked for homelessness, housing and family services organizations and written a large number of grants where I needed housing data. The picture is way more nuanced than "no young families live in the city". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Do you really think it's Manhattan, though? In Seattle, most workers commute in from other places, much cheaper towns. So, for example, in south Renton you can rent a cheap apartment or share a house and then you commute in one or 1.5 hours for your 3-4 hour shift, hang out at the Safeway (local supermarket, middle priced) cafe until the next shift, verrrry slowly eating a bag of potato chips. In our city people are moving further and further out. Even we live 30 minutes out. The "old guard" has homes in Seattle that they bought in the 70s through early 90s. People in my generation without question either have no kids and live in a studio or single room of a house, or if they have kids, and work in our "median income" workplace, live elsewhere and commute in from at least 20 minutes away plus traffic. Of course I don't think it's Manhattan. They probably live in Queens or the Bronx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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