Growing Our Educational Philosophy/Priority w/ Our Kids

[Gil]

How has/does your educational philosophy grow(n) and change(d) with your kids over time? I would love to hear from those of us who devise mission statements or develop a homeschooling philosophy as a part of our getting ready to homeschool rituals, or from folk with experience with transitioning from lower to upper elementary and from upper elementary to middle school. I would love to glean info from your hindsight.

 

What skills do you prioritize after the 3Rs are solid?

How do you cultivate better and deeper thinkers?

How do you model and teach discipline inside and outside of academics?

What skills and subjects do you have your students study to help them develop into more rounded, globally aware and socially competent world citizens?

If you have thought about it or done it, then how is your view of lower elementary school different from upper elementary school?

What about upper elementary vs middle school?

 

 

I ask because honestly, I'm drawing some big ugly blanks. :|. I don't want my kids to just spend the years between now and college, I want to invest them. But in what? I mean, once you have a fluent reader, budding writer and skilled arithmetician on your hands how do you put those skills to better use for the upper elementary grades? What about the middle school years?

 

We are on spring break here and I have been thinking more and more on upper elementary (3rd-5th grade) and middle (6th-8th) school and am trying to sort out my thoughts and try and get a rough idea of the path ahead so that we get where we want to be for our middle school years and more importantly for our 9th grade year. I mean...what are we supposed to do for the 6 years between now and 8th grade? The next 10 years between now and 12th?

 

Admittedly we sort of fell into homeschooling because the PS was such an awful fit socially and academically. We have bum-fumbled our way through the early elementary years by way of a happy accident and have been met with academic success at that level, but we are fast heading into upper-elementary territory and I'm trying to collect and organize my thoughts about education more succinctly. Where the heck are we going? What are we going to do along the way?

 

In the beginning, it was just about keeping far ahead of the PS. I never wanted for the boys to be behind in the PS, but now that we've resigned ourselves to never attending the public (elementary ) schools it isn't enough to just "stay far ahead" of the (Elementary) PS.

My kids are bright--not geniuses--but definitely bright and certainly accelerated. It seems like such a waste to just outpace the PS because the PS is really pretty crummy and also because the boys are capable of and interested in doing more with themselves. So I'd like to expand my educational goals beyond "stay far ahead" of the local schools pretty low standards as we head into the upper elementary and middle school years to help them reach higher.

 

Does anyone want to help? :001_huh:

[Clear Creek]

How has/does your educational philosophy grow(n) and change(d) with your kids over time? I would love to hear from those of us who devise mission statements or develop a homeschooling philosophy as a part of our getting ready to homeschool rituals, or from folk with experience with transitioning from lower to upper elementary and from upper elementary to middle school. I would love to glean info from your hindsight.

 

What skills do you prioritize after the 3Rs are solid?

How do you cultivate better and deeper thinkers?

How do you model and teach discipline inside and outside of academics?

What skills and subjects do you have your students study to help them develop into more rounded, globally aware and socially competent world citizens?

If you have thought about it or done it, then how is your view of lower elementary school different from upper elementary school?

What about upper elementary vs middle school?

 

 

I ask because honestly, I'm drawing some big ugly blanks. :|. I don't want my kids to just spend the years between now and college, I want to invest them. But in what? I mean, once you have a fluent reader, budding writer and skilled arithmetician on your hands how do you put those skills to better use for the upper elementary grades? What about the middle school years?

 

We are on spring break here and I have been thinking more and more on upper elementary (3rd-5th grade) and middle (6th-8th) school and am trying to sort out my thoughts and try and get a rough idea of the path ahead so that we get where we want to be for our middle school years and more importantly for our 9th grade year. I mean...what are we supposed to do for the 6 years between now and 8th grade? The next 10 years between now and 12th?

 

Admittedly we sort of fell into homeschooling because the PS was such an awful fit socially and academically. We have bum-fumbled our way through the early elementary years by way of a happy accident and have been met with academic success at that level, but we are fast heading into upper-elementary territory and I'm trying to collect and organize my thoughts about education more succinctly. Where the heck are we going? What are we going to do along the way?

 

In the beginning, it was just about keeping far ahead of the PS. I never wanted for the boys to be behind in the PS, but now that we've resigned ourselves to never attending the public (elementary ) schools it isn't enough to just "stay far ahead" of the (Elementary) PS.

My kids are bright--not geniuses--but definitely bright and certainly accelerated. It seems like such a waste to just outpace the PS because the PS is really pretty crummy and also because the boys are capable of and interested in doing more with themselves. So I'd like to expand my educational goals beyond "stay far ahead" of the local schools pretty low standards as we head into the upper elementary and middle school years to help them reach higher.

 

Does anyone want to help? :001_huh:

 

Lots of questions! I will see what I have to share. My youngest will be in 3rd grade this fall, so I have some experience with the whole progressing to upper elementary/into middle school thing.

 

How has/does your educational philosophy grow(n) and change(d) with your kids over time?

I have become more relaxed (it is a twelve year journey, so there is time to fit everything in) and I have become more focused on teaching the child I have instead of trying to form my child to a specific philosophy/mold. I have a child that is ahead of her PS peers and a child that is behind (and another who is still too young to tell). Those are the children I have, so those are the children I am teaching.

 

 

What skills do you prioritize after the 3Rs are solid?

I take them deeper with the 3 R's...there are always more math and composition skills to be learned. Latin becomes a requirement and a priority in 3rd grade, as well.

 

How do you cultivate better and deeper thinkers?

We discuss everything that they read, and I mean everything. Not in a formal way, but just as a part of normal, everyday conversation. They love to tell me about what they read (I encouraged it as soon as they began to read independently), and as they get older I ask deeper questions. Should the character have done that, how does this character compare to that character, what do you think these actions will lead to, etc.

 

How do you model and teach discipline inside and outside of academics?

I follow up with everything. If I tell them to do an assignment, I check it. If I give them a chore to complete, I check it immediately after they do it. If they make a commitment to someone, I check to make sure they follow through. Basically, I model self-discipline by following up with everything they are supposed to do. Not that I do it for them, but that I check to see if they did the assignment/job properly often enough for them to eventually develop self-discipline.

 

What skills and subjects do you have your students study to help them develop into more rounded, globally aware and socially competent world citizens?

I discuss current events from around the globe with them, I suggest books to read that are set in locations other than our country, and we get involved with ministries through our church that provide needs such as food/water/education/shelter to people in need in other countries. This is more parenting than schooling, in my opinion.

 

If you have thought about it or done it, then how is your view of lower elementary school different from upper elementary school?

What about upper elementary vs middle school?

In my experience they aren't that much different. Things get increasingly harder, but it is gradual. My goal is for my children to retain their wonder and excitement about things that are new and interesting. For some kids that means making school about the basics and encouraging exploration of a topic outside of school time - my middle child will only show excitement about something if it is unrelated to "school," lol. And don't forget that kids can still learn through play, even when they reach middle school. Heck, I'm an adult and I can still learn through "play" when I experiment with a recipe in the kitchen or try to follow a new sewing pattern.

[albeto.]

My kids are now older, and I am officially the shortest person in my family. So my experiences will have been dulled by forgetfulness. I've learned that rosy colored glasses work both directions. Also, as a heads-up, we don't follow any specific curriculum. What I mean to say is, take my comments with a healthy heaping spoonful of salt if it helps. Sugar is nicer. Jack and Coke work wonders, if you ask me. 

 

Anyway...

 

I brought my kids home between the 3rd and 6th grades and we slowly moved away from organized schedules and academic curricula. In the meantime, I discovered that academics as a tool for learning non academic skills is really only successful when it is successful. There is no way to make it work. However, these skills can be learned outside organized, scheduled lessons. I want to offer that hope to you, is what I'm trying to get around to saying. Skills like identifying problems, brainstorming solutions, paying attention to detail, diligence, perseverance, teamwork, resilience in the face of defeat, these are all things that can be learned away from textbooks and workbooks and assigned projects.

 

Kids learn through play, and these skills make play more... productive, and therefore more enjoyable. 

 

So to answer your questions:

 

What skills do you prioritize after the 3Rs are solid?

For us, the 3Rs support other skills. They're learned because knowledge is power, and empowered people are more likely to be emotionally satisfied people. People who can see the value in compassion and unity find reading the news quite informative. They learn the difference between a scholarly criticism of an event and a propagandist blog post. They learn how to check their own beliefs by defending them against challenges, formal and informal. These are constantly experienced, and we have lots of open dialog around here. No one's beliefs are held to a standard that protects from inquiry or challenge. 

 

How do you cultivate better and deeper thinkers?

Open dialog and access to information from as many different sources as possible. 

 

How do you model and teach discipline inside and outside of academics?

We focus on a problem/solution approach. Problems that are solved in such a way that create more problems for yourself or others is an ineffective solution. So we work on identifying the problem (often finding the problem identified is the effect of applying a previous, ineffective solution, to put it in navel-gazing words, we look for the root of the issue), and then work on predicting possible problems to potential solutions. This is done anywhere from making cookies (oh how I love having teenagers!) to applying to college. The process is the same, and the process can be identified throughout the day in about a million different ways.

 

What skills and subjects do you have your students study to help them develop into more rounded, globally aware and socially competent world citizens?

Information. Without knowledge, one is more vulnerable to emotional manipulation. Knowing what the function of any given information source helps, and is done by being informed about the purposes of these resources. Compassion is a natural human trait, and we illustrate its virtues when we see it. Now that my kids are older, they do the same for me. There are things I grew up with assuming to be fine-as-is, and my kids have shown me where my natural empathy has simply been suppressed in that direction. This shows me they're incorporating these skills, not just regurgitating them for my pleasure. Responsibility is one of those concepts that gets figured out when you're constantly looking to avoid future problems. An ounce of prevention, and all that. Courtesy and other social skills are just like the 3Rs in my opinion. They are tools to gain one's goals more solidly. One can accomplish a goal while being a giant turd, but if one has a strong community of support, they can accomplish much more, and enjoy much more, and that includes keeping an eye out on the feelings and considerations of others. 

 

If you have thought about it or done it, then how is your view of lower elementary school different from upper elementary school?

My kids came home about this time, so any changes would have been overshadowed by the paradigm shift from conventional school outside the home, to conventional school inside the home, to unconventional school inside the home to organic learning for the sake of enjoying life.

 

What about upper elementary vs middle school?

As I recall, autonomous ideologies began to emerge at this age. I tried to gently, without the appearance of judgement or approval, without any correlation with affection, logically and rationally guide my kids to see their beliefs in terms of logical arguments, and then to pay attention to the details that support those arguments. I learned not to do this as a lesson, but more in a social, friendly, interested-to-hear-what-they-have-to-say kind of way. I also learned, eventually, to let go of expectations that my ideologies would be adopted and accepted by my kids. For the most part, they have, but when they have not, I know it's not a knee-jerk reaction but a well-thought out conclusion. 

 

Also, kids tend to like to be the expert in something. I think we all do to some extent. Let them be the expert in what they're good at or what they enjoy. As they learn more about The Thing They're Expert In, they'll learn to look out for details, they'll learn to look out for intellectual traps, and they'll learn to discern when they're being targeted for someone else's gain.

 

I'll cut and paste a post from another forum, but one that articulates what I'm trying to get at:

 

 

K-6 Here's my idea of what (I think) kids actually need to learn: I call them the Elementary Big Five.

 

1. To read really well. MOST IMPORTANT skill.

2. To organize and write down their own ideas. (Doesn't have to be perfect, just a basic ability to come up with a concept, introduce it, do some exposition, and tie up a conclusion. Spelling and punctuation doesn't have to be perfect either.)

3. Knows arithmetic facts. Can add, subtract, do long division, multi-digit multiplication, decimals, time, money, and has a good understanding of measurements and fractions.

4. Has a basic understanding of the Scientific Method, and can apply it to a real life question.

5. Knows how to use references, the internet, and the public library effectively.

 

That's pretty much it. K-6. Seven whole years for just those five things. Anything extra is gravy.

 

 

Now, I say all this as one who doesn't make assignments, but I don't want to give the impression that I'm advocating one kind of academic approach over another. I'm suggesting that all these skills you're asking about can be, and are learned organically, naturally, in the context of play/socializing/problem solving. If I could do it all over again, I would cut short the lessons we had. You'd be amazed how quickly a clever kid can catch up math and history and science and things like that when they're older and they have some personal context to apply the information. When they have personal motivation, like to apply for a school or college, they'll buckle right down and learn that stuff like nobody's business. I'd do more hands on activities and keep my mouth shut, noting what they knew, and asking them questions as if they were the experts. I wouldn't make an experience tedious by giving them the "wrap up lesson" as I saw it. Instead, I'd let them enjoy the experience without giving the impression of trying to sneak in something intellectually healthy.

 

Curiosity is a human instinct, and the joy of discovery is something that, if lucky, kids won't be conditioned out of. Maya Angelou once said, "Few, if any survive their teens. Most surrender to the vague but murderous pressure of adult conformity." I try to keep that goal in mind - autonomy, creativity, satisfaction, and that requires good intellectual skills like paying attention to details and predicting likely outcomes, and it requires good social skills. Those things are learned in spite of academic lessons, not because of, in my opinion. 

 

Probably not what you were looking for, but perhaps one or two things will jump out at you and inspire a bunny trail in your own head.

 

 

 

[quark]

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[luuknam]

Can't answer the specific questions, as my oldest is in 2nd grade, but I'm definitely interested in reading all the answers!

 

One of the things that happened with us was that before my oldest was born both my spouse and I were planning on unschooling him (though not entirely sure to what degree - came across Sandra Dodd and figured that wasn't our cup of tea, but anyhow - something unschool-ish or child-led). Then, oldest son was born. He was 'different' pretty much from the start. Had him evaluated by early childhood intervention when he was 14.5 months. He was 3.5 months behind in speech/communication, which was half a month too little to qualify for services at that time (he was far enough behind in social-emotional development to qualify, but they didn't know what to do about that for a kid that young). We had him evaluated again at 2.5yo, at which point he was almost a year and a half behind in speech, and did qualify for services. So, he got speech therapy, which didn't make any difference (speech therapist said I'd been doing all the right things, so she was basically just doing more of the same). Then, when he was almost 3yo, services would be transferred to the school district.

 

I was burnt out by that point (and pregnant along with all the nausea and exhaustion that brings), plus doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is questionable as well (although not entirely crazy since kids brains do mature). It was a tough decision but I decided to put him in public school, where he started just after turning 3yo. Ironically, he started making progress in the month before school, which was right after we'd bought a TV (and had the subtitles on all the time). He's continued making progress since then (but has 4 hours of therapy a week in school, along with a full time 1-1 aide).

 

Currently trying to find a balance between child-led vs me playing Tiger Mom (and planning on homeschooling both kids next year - youngest is still at home with me, planning on pulling oldest out of school).

[Guest]

Less Tiger Mom here and more accepting of the limitations of ordinary parents' power to protect our offspring in the society we live in and that my kids' right to pursue their own dreams trumps any desire on my part to raise "winners".

 

 

[luuknam]

Less Tiger Mom here and more accepting of the limitations of ordinary parents' power to protect our offspring in the society we live in and that my kids' right to pursue their own dreams trumps any desire on my part to raise "winners".

 

I meant it more like trying to cram skills down kids' throats, rather than trying to prep them to win competitions. I don't really care about competitions. I just want my kids to be able to support themselves and their dependents when they're grown-ups, and I suspect it will get harder to obtain a middle class standard of living in the coming decades.

 

It's a little odd to me that what's (often) seen as good parenting for special needs kids (intensive ABA 40+ hours per week) is (often) seen as bad parenting for regular kids (Tiger Mom). I'm aware that not everyone sees it that way (nor that you were saying that)... it's just my impression of what the average parent thinks.

[JennW in SoCal]

We also "fell" into homeschooling, and once we had settled into it I too started filling notebooks with planning ideas and books lists, trying to figure out what we would do to fill those years. Looking back on it all now, those years were over in a flash!  None of those plans I labored over were ever used, though the pages of book titles I'd jotted down were very helpful. But there were never times when I worried that we didn't have enough to study, that I wasn't investing enough in them.  I just held on tight for dear life, and kept my eye on a general educational path. If anything I felt, and sometimes still feel, that I didn't do enough, but of course I couldn't possibly teach them everything they need to know, and my boys have matured into the kind of life long learners I was striving to mold.

 

My educational philosophy never changed. It sounds awfully simple and cliched, but the gist of it was that learning happens all the time -- meaning that learning doesn't come solely from "doing school", yet there is still a body of knowledge that needs to be introduced and a skill set that must be taught and practiced. It was my "classical/unschooling" schizophrenic approach to homeschooling that seems to have worked!

 

What skills do you prioritize after the 3Rs are solid?  

The 3Rs are never done.  You do them at a higher and higher level til they leave the house for college or work. I added in logic, but mostly focused on doing the next thing in math, and was constantly feeding them great, good and decent literature -- fiction, non-fiction, poetry and drama.  The backbone of our homeschool was reading sharing books through discussions.  The WTM and WEM were my inspiration for what to read and how to discuss.

 

How do you cultivate better and deeper thinkers?

Through reading and discussing better and deeper literature, through doing logic.

 

How do you model and teach discipline inside and outside of academics?

It's a long process. I think it was through how my dh and I live our lives, and it was through the fine adult mentors my kids had in their outside activities.  Academic deadlines were something that we dealt with for a period through outsourcing classes in middle school and high school. 

 

What skills and subjects do you have your students study to help them develop into more rounded, globally aware and socially competent world citizens?

Other than discussing a broad range of books, we listened to NPR in the car on the way to and from activities, and we met and interacted with lots of interesting people from around the world.  My kids volunteered from an early age so were comfortable interacting with adults.  Their various internships and volunteer positions as teens did quite a bit to teach them how to be mature and socially competent.

 

If you have thought about it or done it, then how is your view of lower elementary school different from upper elementary school?

What about upper elementary vs middle school?

I just found my schooling evolved as my kids matured, though there were some sudden seismic shifts when I'd have panic attacks that I wasn't doing enough!  I'd have a knee jerk reaction to my freak out moments, amp up some particular subject, then when I'd calm down I'd realize that things were actually alright and I could back off. 

 

I had kids with strong interests, so much of school revolved around that. The biggest difference as they aged was the time they gave in pursuing those interests with adult mentors.  For one of my boys it made a huge difference in middle school to have someone outside the house who shared his passions, who could see his strengths at a time when I was despairing that he would ever be able to graduate high school, much less go to college. His mentor saw so much potential in my ds and patiently taught him.  My boy went on to college and is now a professional in that field.

 

High school wasn't that different from 1st grade.  Math was the first topic of the day, often done while sprawled out on the living room floor. I read aloud or we listened together to audio books and we talked about them and they wrote about what they read.  Yes they had foreign language and history and formal science courses in high school, but it was still part of exploring the world.  And, occasionally, even in high school, we'd drop everything and go to the zoo in the middle of the day or to the movies or a museum.  Life with these kiddos is over before you know it -- make sure you always take time to enjoy it!

[Guest]

I don't really care about competitions. I just want my kids to be able to support themselves and their dependents when they're grown-ups, and I suspect it will get harder to obtain a middle class standard of living in the coming decades.

 

It's a little odd to me that what's (often) seen as good parenting for special needs kids (intensive ABA 40+ hours per week) is (often) seen as bad parenting for regular kids (Tiger Mom). I'm aware that not everyone sees it that way (nor that you were saying that)... it's just my impression of what the average parent thinks.

 

No, of course I wasn't judging you and I have no idea what it is like to walk in your shoes. Sorry about that.

 

I have been reading too many old copies of GWS from the '70s. Holt and the other pioneers used the term "raising winners" to describe grooming children to climb the corporate ladder as in "the Rat Race" as in "There are two kinds of people in this world, winners and (Iron Ethel Flint, lol)".

 

I still think that my profoundly gifted child would have made a good theoretical physicist or psychologist, but that was not something he ever wanted to do and in time I grew to respect his choice not to take on soul crushing student loan debt and became very proud of my appliance salesman/National Guardsman/part time college student/devoted son and big brother.

 

I'll bore you to tears bragging about him if you'll let me.

[pehp]

This is an interesting thread!! I am going to ponder it a bit. I also have two very close friends who were homeschooled (strangely!  we met as adults--when I was growing up I didn't know h'sing existed).  They are so refreshingly different that I have tried to figure out what makes them so unique.  It informs my own homeschooling choices, for sure, and has expanded my "educational philosophy" way beyond the boundaries of academics.  

[Mystie]

I'll play! I love to talk homeschool philosophy. :)

 

Here's my summary of my principle/vision goals for each grouping:

 

 

Toddler-4yo: grow a secure identity through love and trust, learn to be responsible for actions (pick up what you get out, clean up your own spill, ask for forgiveness when you do something wrong, etc.), play outside a lot, play primarily unstructured creative/pretend play.

 

early elementary: learn to read, do basic math as desired (I only do math with this age when they want to), be read aloud to a lot (I include audio books in this category), play outside & unstructured a lot (you start to see them playing out the stories they're being read and it's so fun!)

 

--the transition between these two happens when they can read fluently--

 

elementary: to grow in skill (reading, handwriting - not composition, math), to be introduced to the world as an interesting place and be interested in all manner of things (so, like Charlotte Mason, my goal isn't that they *know* many facts, but that they *care* about all manner of things)

 

--the transition between elementary & middle school is more gradual than hard-and-fast and depends on each child--

 

 

middle school: begin to apply skills to studying and learning, transition to being more responsible and independent in studying, make connections and learn conversation and questioning skills, learn to write to communicate a point

 

high school: grow in independence and responsibility, make own goals and execute them, transition into adulthood and university-like learning

 

The high school part is still vague to me because we're only now transitioning into middle school. However, I do think that what is typically done as a college freshman today should really be high school work. I did 2 years of college in high school, as did my husband.

 

How do you cultivate better and deeper thinkers?

 

Reading, reading, reading - and let conversation be natural and organic, don't push it. They need lots of broad experience and connections made on their own before they can become thinkers. But to think, they need material. So they need lots of stories, lots of books (above their level through audio books, too), and lots of time outside. Then they'll develop the material with which they will be able to think as they mature.

[albeto.]

Reading, reading, reading - and let conversation be natural and organic, don't push it. They need lots of broad experience and connections made on their own before they can become thinkers. But to think, they need material. So they need lots of stories, lots of books (above their level through audio books, too), and lots of time outside. Then they'll develop the material with which they will be able to think as they mature.

 

Man, I wish you wrote this years ago, before I bored my kids to death!

[Yolanda]

Great questions!

 

Love all the time put into these thoughtful answers.

 

I admire that ability to phrase your thoughts and phrase them well.

 

Bravo and thanks!

[luuknam]

No, of course I wasn't judging you and I have no idea what it is like to walk in your shoes. Sorry about that.

 

I have been reading too many old copies of GWS from the '70s. Holt and the other pioneers used the term "raising winners" to describe grooming children to climb the corporate ladder as in "the Rat Race" as in "There are two kinds of people in this world, winners and (Iron Ethel Flint, lol)".

 

I still think that my profoundly gifted child would have made a good theoretical physicist or psychologist, but that was not something he ever wanted to do and in time I grew to respect his choice not to take on soul crushing student loan debt and became very proud of my appliance salesman/National Guardsman/part time college student/devoted son and big brother.

 

I'll bore you to tears bragging about him if you'll let me.

 

That does sound like something to be proud of.

 

I had no clue you were talking about Holt. I think I read some of his writings several years ago, but, I don't recall. I read the The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother a few years ago because people would refer to Tiger Moms and I wanted to read the source, and she's not the kind of mom I'd want to be (she doesn't use the word winners, iirc, but...).

 

I mostly meant that I'm not sure to what degree unschooling would work for my oldest, and I'm not sure to what degree he needs someone to tell him to learn x, y, and z skills and to make him do it. Unschooling appealed to me because as a kid I learned almost nothing in school because I'd already learned a lot by reading library books just because I wanted to. But for a special needs kid, it gets complicated. Everybody is a great parent (with an excellent parenting philosophy) until they have kids, no? One thing I'm trying to tell myself that there are many ways to have a kid turn out alright, and that there probably isn't a perfect way to parent a kid - that there just are different upsides and downsides to various parenting choices (okay, there are obviously ways to parent wrong, like beating your kid into the hospital, but you probably get what I mean).

[Runningmom80]

So I obviously can't answer these as I have an 8 year old, and am still very much at the beginning of all of this, but I wanted to chime in that I'm right there with you, having a home school existential crisis of sorts (for lack of a better term) as evidenced by the two WTM conference sessions I signed up for, "beyond elementary years" and "creating the home school of your fantasy." (Or something to the effect.)

 

I get it.  I really and truly do. :huh: :huh: :huh: :lol:

 

I'm on the path.  I can *feel* the answers, I'm just having a hard time articulating them.

[MrsWeasley]

That does sound like something to be proud of.

 

I had no clue you were talking about Holt. I think I read some of his writings several years ago, but, I don't recall. I read the The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother a few years ago because people would refer to Tiger Moms and I wanted to read the source, and she's not the kind of mom I'd want to be (she doesn't use the word winners, iirc, but...).

 

I mostly meant that I'm not sure to what degree unschooling would work for my oldest, and I'm not sure to what degree he needs someone to tell him to learn x, y, and z skills and to make him do it. Unschooling appealed to me because as a kid I learned almost nothing in school because I'd already learned a lot by reading library books just because I wanted to. But for a special needs kid, it gets complicated. Everybody is a great parent (with an excellent parenting philosophy) until they have kids, no? One thing I'm trying to tell myself that there are many ways to have a kid turn out alright, and that there probably isn't a perfect way to parent a kid - that there just are different upsides and downsides to various parenting choices (okay, there are obviously ways to parent wrong, like beating your kid into the hospital, but you probably get what I mean).

 

I actually saw Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mom very differently...she definitely pokes fun at her former self and relaxed after she realized that as much as that worked for her firstborn, it didn't work for her second daughter. I admire how she holds her children to high standards but ultimately adapts to the people her kids are and tries to support them (like when her younger child takes up tennis and then when her daughter doesn't like her enthusiasm, she backs off).

[MrsWeasley]

So I obviously can't answer these as I have an 8 year old, and am still very much at the beginning of all of this, but I wanted to chime in that I'm right there with you, having a home school existential crisis of sorts (for lack of a better term) as evidenced by the two WTM conference sessions I signed up for, "beyond elementary years" and "creating the home school of your fantasy." (Or something to the effect.)

 

I get it.  I really and truly do. :huh: :huh: :huh: :lol:

 

I'm on the path.  I can *feel* the answers, I'm just having a hard time articulating them.

 

I'm going through this, too, like "Oh schnizzle! She's eight! What are we doing? What is even the goal here?"

[albeto.]

 Everybody is a great parent (with an excellent parenting philosophy) until they have kids, no? One thing I'm trying to tell myself that there are many ways to have a kid turn out alright, and that there probably isn't a perfect way to parent a kid - that there just are different upsides and downsides to various parenting choices (okay, there are obviously ways to parent wrong, like beating your kid into the hospital, but you probably get what I mean).

 

So here's what we learned along the way... You're absolutely right in that everyone is a good parent until they have kids, and to that I would add, everyone knows how to be a good parent to a special needs kid until their own child has special needs. Advice comes out of the woodwork, and most of the time it just makes you cry. But I digress. The point is, I guess, being a good parent is far and above more important than being a good homeschool teacher. I think that because we all deal with stress differently, including our children, and none of us know until the time comes which ones of our children will know how to weather the storms in their lives without digging themselves into deep holes. Having a strong relationship with a parent will do more to keep that hole from getting too deep, or at least will provide a rope should the child clear his/her head enough to look for one. Academic skills are really quite helpful tools to meet nearly any goal in one's life, but knowing how to navigate life without loosing yourself is a skill precious few people think about until it's too late. Between the two extremes - having a well educated child spending weeks in the hospital as an inpatient, juvenile detention, or dead by their own hand, or having a child with average academic credentials who knows how to pass on conventional "quick fixes" for stress (drugs, alcohol, sex, porn, theft, etc), I'd prefer the latter. Of course most of the time we fall somewhere in the middle of those two extremes, yet we can kind of, sort of, sometimes, guide our families towards one end of the spectrum or the other. I think in general we tend to guide towards academic success, but if the other seems to be the unavoidable trajectory the child seems to be slipping into, I just want to offer hope that putting academics secondary to relationships isn't a bad thing. Sacrificing a child's well-being at the altar of academics doesn't sound like what anyone is proposing, but sometimes we don't realize our kids' cries for help. So what I'm saying is, if someone does, listen, and give yourself permission to relax on the academic expectations. That's all. Just a little bunny trail of my own. Back to your regularly scheduled topic. ^_^

[Runningmom80]

So here's what we learned along the way... You're absolutely right in that everyone is a good parent until they have kids, and to that I would add, everyone knows how to be a good parent to a special needs kid until their own child has special needs. Advice comes out of the woodwork, and most of the time it just makes you cry. But I digress. The point is, I guess, being a good parent is far and above more important than being a good homeschool teacher. I think that because we all deal with stress differently, including our children, and none of us know until the time comes which ones of our children will know how to weather the storms in their lives without digging themselves into deep holes. Having a strong relationship with a parent will do more to keep that hole from getting too deep, or at least will provide a rope should the child clear his/her head enough to look for one. Academic skills are really quite helpful tools to meet nearly any goal in one's life, but knowing how to navigate life without loosing yourself is a skill precious few people think about until it's too late. Between the two extremes - having a well educated child spending weeks in the hospital as an inpatient, juvenile detention, or dead by their own hand, or having a child with average academic credentials who knows how to pass on conventional "quick fixes" for stress (drugs, alcohol, sex, porn, theft, etc), I'd prefer the latter. Of course most of the time we fall somewhere in the middle of those two extremes, yet we can kind of, sort of, sometimes, guide our families towards one end of the spectrum or the other. I think in general we tend to guide towards academic success, but if the other seems to be the unavoidable trajectory the child seems to be slipping into, I just want to offer hope that putting academics secondary to relationships isn't a bad thing. Sacrificing a child's well-being at the altar of academics doesn't sound like what anyone is proposing, but sometimes we don't realize our kids' cries for help. So what I'm saying is, if someone does, listen, and give yourself permission to relax on the academic expectations. That's all. Just a little bunny trail of my own. Back to your regularly scheduled topic. ^_^

 

Maybe it's because I just finished Running with Scissors, or maybe it's because mental illness runs in my family, but this really resonated with me.  Not that I'm any sort of academic dictator, but it's prudent to remember the people behind the brains. :)

 

[Minerva]

Thank you so much for posting these questions, and thank you to for all of the thoughtful responses. So encouraging. 

[Carrousel]

Add me to the list of the 8 year old freak out stage.  I'm having the same, where do we go after the 3R's panic as I'm researching next year's curriculum.  Thus far, I've taught 3R's and just strewed/interest led/unschooled the rest.  Feeling like "official" third grade is time to buckle down and work, but trying to figure out exactly what that looks like is proving daunting!  Really appreciating the thoughtful replies here!

[Guest]

Man, I wish you wrote this years ago, before I bored my kids to death!

 

I'm glad you wrote it now, though, because I was feeling guilty about reading aloud to my 7yo (who CAN read at about a middle school level for no more than five minutes if you make him, but doesn't like to) for so long that the clock says it's normal people's dinner time when we start morning seatwork.

 

:p

[Mystie]

Add me to the list of the 8 year old freak out stage.  I'm having the same, where do we go after the 3R's panic as I'm researching next year's curriculum.  Thus far, I've taught 3R's and just strewed/interest led/unschooled the rest.  Feeling like "official" third grade is time to buckle down and work, but trying to figure out exactly what that looks like is proving daunting!  Really appreciating the thoughtful replies here!

 

BTDT with my own 8-year-old freak out stage. 

 

Now I'm working through the 12-year-old freak out stage. :) 

[idnib]

A couple of years ago DS was really into the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books. It made me think that what I really want is a "Choose Your Own Homeschool Adventures" book. The "s" is really important here! I wish I could do it classically, then try unschooling, then radical unschooling, then Charlotte Mason/Ambleside, then discovery approach, then history-led, and so on. 

 

Gil, thanks for asking these questions. I've had some of the same thoughts but haven't put them into coherent sentences and ideas.

[birchbark]

I too love to talk education philosophy, but I have noticed (even in recent threads) that people tend to complicate it unnecessarily. Remember, simple is always best. Don't let high-sounding philosophies intimidate you. You can do this.

 

How has/does your educational philosophy grow(n) and change(d) with your kids over time?

(Edited to add this in; I forgot it the first time around!) I would say it has changed in three major ways. 1, I have greatly simplified. 2, I am much more in tune with developmental readiness. I used to think the earlier you started something, the stronger the finish. 3, I'm more aware of the end result I am shooting for, and use that goal to constantly assess our curriculum and lifestyle. I feel like I've completely dropped the desire to emulate public or private schools. 

 

What skills do you prioritize after the 3Rs are solid?

Interests and giftings. The ability to pursue these is the beauty of homeschooling. But as pp's stated, the 3R's are never done. They are the backbone of education, and the tools that give our kids the ability to go down any path they desire.

 

How do you cultivate better and deeper thinkers?

Good books and good discussion. Play the devil's advocate on occasion.

 

How do you model and teach discipline inside and outside of academics?

Inside: Making school the priority of your day. Do not let other things easily brush it aside. Frequently point out how this or that particular skill or subject will help them in real life. I do not demand large amounts of academic discipline from my prepubescents. I agree with the theory that they best learn discipline through chores and hands-on work.

Outside: Chores and hands-on work. :)  No fun stuff til the responsibilities are done.

 

What skills and subjects do you have your students study to help them develop into more rounded, globally aware and socially competent world citizens?

During childhood, we focus on being family-aware, and then local-community-aware. Their circle expands as they get older. I also like to expose them to other cultures through books and stories from other places. Books on the food, houses, and clothing of other cultures is fascinating to them as well. Getting kids to care is important.

 

If you have thought about it or done it, then how is your view of lower elementary school different from upper elementary school?

Lower elementary is all about reading here. Writing and math take a back seat while learning to read and reveling in books and language. Picture books, chapter books, non-fiction, poetry, reading-aloud and audio books. . . you can't do too much.

 

In upper elementary we start focusing on writing and math, while keeping a rich diet of reading.

 

What about upper elementary vs middle school?

For me, middle school is still all about the 3R's. I will be eternally grateful I ran across this old post by JennW on preparing for high school. It slowed this zealous mom-of-a-firstborn in her ambitious, middle-school-planning tracks. (Whenever you ever see JennW's username, be sure to sit up and take notes. :) )  Keeping our subject load streamlined and focused on math, writing, and reading good literature was the best thing we could have done for middle school. Again, use extra time to work on interests and hands-on skills.

[Chrysalis Academy]

 

 

What about upper elementary vs middle school?

For me, middle school is still all about the 3R's. I will be eternally grateful I ran across this old post by JennW on preparing for high school. It slowed this zealous mom-of-a-firstborn in her ambitious, middle-school-planning tracks. (Whenever you ever see JennW's username, be sure to sit up and take notes. :) )  Keeping our subject load streamlined and focused on math, writing, and reading good literature was the best thing we could have done for middle school. Again, use extra time to work on interests and hands-on skills.

 

 

Hear, hear!  :hurray:

[KeriJ]

JennW doesn't know that I'm her secret WTM board stalker.  Well, she does now. :)  But seriously, so much wisdom from her!  

[JennW in SoCal]

A friend e-mailed to tell me to check the WTM boards --- you all are so very sweet!  I have WTM stalkers! 

 

I can write these posts with a breezy confidence because my kids are all grown up now and doing well. My crazy ways apparently worked.  But trust me, 10 years ago when my oldest was in middle school...I was freaked out on a regular basis. 

 

And, I'm repeating what I've posted before, but my kids have thanked me for how I homeschooled them. They appreciate that we read aloud and explored the world together. (Even though they rolled their eyes with much drama during the middle school years).  They thanked me because they've enjoyed college and thrived there while so many of their college peers have been cynical and unengaged and failing or dropping out. 

 

 

[lllll]

..

[pehp]

Well, I am a total baby at homeschooling seeing as how my oldest is SEVEN, but I think a lot about this business of 'the long haul.' I have no idea how to answer your questions simply b/c I am not at the point of having any kind of hard-earned confidence.  

 

However! I have a friend who successfully homeschooled two children (now adults) and I have 2 amazing friends who were homeschooled. One was h'sed all the way through and one was homeschooled until 11th grade, when she went to private school out of fear that she would not be prepared for college.  She told me "what a joke! homeschooling was so much harder than private school!!!" ;) 

 

My two friends are such unusual specimens in my own world of public-schooled friends that I have spent a lot of time thinking about exactly what makes them different.  A few things: 

 

*they are not daunted by the everyday.  They learned how to manage cleaning and cooking when they were younger, so it's just a part of life now.  (Whereas I was trained as an attorney and felt paralyzed by the dishes for years.  What?!)  They just do it and they don't sweat the small stuff. At all. 

 

*they have a sense of possibility--their worlds are expansive.  One friend taught herself to tile the bathroom floor by watching youtube videos.  The other friend runs a catering business "for fun" sometimes and doesn't sweat it.  They don't stay hemmed into a tight routine or schedule, though they do have a general routine.  They are engaged in knowing people and constant learning.

 

*they are smart as whips.  One of them had the highest SAT score in her state the year she took the SAT.  Full ride to a state university, as you can imagine.  She mostly seemed to spend her childhood in the woods and reading books, with some curriculum thrown in between (and also plenty of chores and hands-on learning--she once rebuilt a carburetor for fun).  I'm not saying everyone can nail the SATs by wandering the woods and reading books (there's natural intelligence there), but it sure feels reassuring. 

 

*they see needs in others' lives and in their community and they fill it, because their parents did this!

 

My friend whose children are grown now spent a lot of time just reading to them as well.  She told me that the relationship she built with them, the heart-to-hearts, was the most important thing.  Their relationship seems healthy and happy now.  I admire this because I want my children to know how much I love them, regardless of their academic status or goals.  She also once told me that the most selfish kids she knew were homeschooled kids, b/c they had been catered to most of their lives.  I can see how this would be possible. (She wasn't talking about her own kids, though.)

 

In some ways I think much of this boils down to example: we have to have a good relationship w/ our homeschooled children, and if we want them to be socially-engaged, deep thinkers, then we need to model that.  

 

I also have this idea that my children will learn a marketable skill during their high school years.  Because I don't care how amazingly deeply you can ponder philosophy, if you don't have a skill when the going gets tough, you might have a rough go of it later in life.  I say this without any malice as someone with a philosophy degree! 

 

I love this thread and I love reading the wisdom of those who have walked this road ahead of me. 

[Mrs Twain]

Being a Tiger Mom is bad? LOL.

(I only skimmed over a lot of the posts.)

Here are my priorities through 8th.
1. Writing well. Besides all else, there are two aspects that are frequently overlooked. First we need to edit all of our kids' papers. This is exceedingly time-consuming but absolutely necessary. We also need to either read aloud or play audio books to our kids of good quality literature. Listening to good writing (with the ears) is a significant factor in learning how to write well.

2. Become solid in math, particularly in math facts and pre-algebra skills. Take algebra in 8th grade or sooner if appropriate.

3. Reading. What everyone else said.

4. Systematic program to learn history, geography, and science facts. This one is especially ignored or rejected by most modern, progressive educators as well as by the homeschool community which parrots what the progressives say. Sorry for sounding so negative in the last sentence, but that is the truth. If you want to a summary of the evidence about why our kids should learn facts through 8th grade, read Hirsch's book called The Knowledge Deficit.

5. Standardized test-taking skills.

6. Note-taking and how to study for a test.

7. Civics, basic economics, and state history.

8. Cursive and typing.

9. Foreign language

10. Art/music. At least gain a basic appreciation of these areas for core knowledge purposes.

11. Public speaking.

12. Leadership and community service.