latin progression question

[beachpotato]

Ok - I know I'm probably getting a little ahead of myself, but please humor me. What do you think for a wordy girl?

 

K - SSL 1

1 - SSL 2

2 - Minimus, GSWL 1

3 - Minimus Secundus, GSWL 2 (?)

4 - I Speak Latin

5 - Lively Latin 1

6 - Great Latin Adventure 1

7 - Great Latin Adventure 2

8 - Latin in the Christian Trivium 1

9 - LitCT 2

10 - LitCT 3

11 - LitCT 4

12 - AP Latin

[Slache]

I don't know all of those programs, but you're mixing whole to parts and parts to whole. We don't know when GSWL 2 will be out.  :crying:

 

You could teach Greek and Latin simultaneously thereby allowing you to take longer with the programs and keep with one company. Here's my plan (not that I'm one of those crazy people that plans 12 years out from the time their kid is 2 or anything :leaving:)

 

K-Hey Andrew Primer, Spanish(as a pre-Latin, personal strong point)

1-Hey Andrew 1, Spanish

2-Hey Andrew 2, SSL

3-Hey Andrew 3, SSL 2

4-Hey Andrew 4, L4C A

5-Hey Andrew 5, L4C B

6-Hey Andrew 6, L4C C

7-Athenaze 1, LA! 1

8-Athenaze 1/2, LA! 2

9-Athenaze 2, LA! 3

10-12 Greek & Latin Literature

 

Hey Andrew is supposed take less time than one a year so I hope to actually finish all 8 levels. SSL, L4C, and LA! are all by Classical Academic Press. Jumping around just seems too hard to me, not that I have any idea what I'm talking about.

[Ms.Ivy]

A lot of your progression would have significant overlap, which may lead to boredom.  There is so much English to learn prior to 3rd grade anyway, I just don't see the point of doing Latin that early.  We love language around here -- we do Greek and Spanish and Latin.  But our Latin progression, which is working well so far, is: 

 

3rd Grade -- GSWL 

4th - 5th Grade -- Lively Latin 1-2

6th - 9 Grades -- Latin Alive! all levels

 

Even with this progression, there is still lots of overlap and review.  But I feel it is a slow ramp-up and we are enjoying it.  I just can't imagine doing even more than that.  This may be because I have a large family and I would be over-loaded if we did more at earlier grades.

[SilverMoon]

Frankly, I think my kids would fry on Latin with that much repetition and end up not getting the hoped for benefit.

 

We prefer to just stick with the CAP books and drag books out longer than a year. Song School can start as soon as they're reading well enough and show interest. Latin for Children is a great follow-up, and when they get mature enough for a bigger kid approach, Latin Alive livens it up and keeps them interested.

 

Not having Latin being a full-time subject keeps it more fun and gives us more time for other languages and interests.

[SarahW]

There's a discussion of options in this thread: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/536929-help-me-plan-a-latin-path-from-grammar-to-rhetoric/

 

I'm not familiar with the curriculum you listed. But that thread may give you some ideas about types of programs that go together.3

 

 

[SarahW]

Oh, and while I think Latin can start early, SSL2 would be tough before 2nd grade I think. My kid is pretty enthused about the program and generally good at grammar, but as we approach the last section it has become more difficult, both in terms of Latin grammar and the amount of thinking and writing involved.

 

If you do want to start in K, I would drag it out and do 1 & 2 over three years. Do all the activity pages, games, videos, etc. etc. to fill it up. 

[SarahW]

And another thing, it's not necessarily a bad thing to use different curriculum to learn a language. Different books have different strengths, and weaknesses. You could, I think, use ISL along with SSL. But you don't want to spin in one place for too long, kwim?

[ALB]

Don't want to be a wet blanket (and I'm using Memoria Press Latin which I see didn't make your list), but I think you may be better off waiting until like 2nd grade or later to get started. There are so many basic things that need to be figured out in K and 1st. My 2nd grader this year struggled to keep up in Latin because his writing skills still need work.

 

There are quite a few paths to AP Latin without starting in K. From what I've read (and I'm only 1 year in myself), even with starting an entry program in 5th grade, you can still get to Henle in middle school and do more difficult translation courses in high school.

I agree with fairytalemama.  Second grade is a great time to start Latin, since reading and writing skills are fairly cemented by then.  I can see how you might want to start in first with a competent reader, but keep in mind that most programs increase in difficulty and in the amount of writing and grammar knowledge needed.  

I'm not familiar with all the programs you listed.  We also use Memoria Press for Latin.

[EndOfOrdinary]

My wordy and language oriented son started a full Latin program at 6 after having a couple years of Spanish under his belt. It is doable if your child is motivated and enjoys languages. I do not know if you have looked at all the programs you have listed, but Minimus was an absolute bore with my son. He vetoed it right away and had easily covered all the content within the first year of learning Latin. Others speak very fondly of it, so check it out if you haven't. GSWL was wonderful, but very quick for a kid interested in language. It could very easily be done in two months, just so that you are aware. You might want a back up plan to stretch them out a bit more.

 

More than anything, I would go with the flow until you figure out which way your daughter wants to learn the languages. My son wants very grammar focused, incremental instruction. No discovery. No immersion. Lots of small bits fitting together. Minimal repetition of the same task, but repetition in slightly different ways is not bad. Cambridge was a total no go unless just oral practice of passages. Jenney's was a total hit. GSWL, big time success. Henle was the same topic over and over, so eh. Minimus was boring and a lot more discovery than he wanted.

 

So see what your student likes, that way you are not dragging her through curriculum that just doesn't fit.

[JDoe]

Maybe a silly question, but should not the last year(s) of Latin (and Greek) consist of reading latin? Ovid, Vergil, Horace, Terence, Livi, Seneca, Taciti, etc?

[G5052]

I agree with what the others said.  Delay a bit.

 

I tried Latin in the Christian Trivium years ago, and was disappointed.  There were a lot of errors (maybe fixed by now?), and I found it overly complicated to use.  I'd also go with something that has a proven track record with the AP exam, and perhaps also the National Latin Exam if that's a goal as well.

 

We actually didn't start Latin until 7th grade and my oldest did the AP last year with a "5."  We began with Henle and then did Wheelock's.  I found that just couldn't get beyond Latin 2 teaching it myself, so we outsourced to Lukeion beyond that.

 

[8filltheheart]

I agree with G5052 in that it just doesn't take that long to master Latin.  Starting in late elementary/ middle school will get you to the point of being able to read Latin poetry and prose during high school. 

[Haiku]

Wait, you forgot Latin Prep, So You Really Want to Learn Latin, Latin for Children, and Latin Alive!  :laugh:

 

No, seriously, you look like you are running all over the place just to find a program to stick into a time slot.

 

Aside from the fact that I would not start Latin in K, I would pick one program you like and go with that. There's no point to jumping all around in programs. You're just going to end up with a huge amount of repeat, which will bore your kiddo and cause you to just be spinning your wheels.

 

My dd started Latin in 5th grade and is already at a high school level here at the end of 7th grade. You don't have to study Latin for 12 years. By the time you have seriously studied Latin for a few years, you should be able to progress to a reading study. Going through multiple years of grammar study programs is going to be overkill and boring.

[mjbucks1]

I agree with G5052 in that it just doesn't take that long to master Latin. Starting in late elementary/ middle school with get you to the point of being able to read Latin poetry and prose during high school.

 

:iagree:

 

My kids started Latin in 4th grade, but it was low key and fun.  My ds did Memoria Press Latina Christiana, and dd did Latin for Children.  Both of them transitioned to Wheelock's in 7th grade (ds started at home, but dd started with Lukeion Latin 1).  Ds completed AP Latin in 10th grade and dd is on that same path.  I would concentrate on building strong English grammar in the early years.  It will make Latin so much easier!

[KrissiK]

Wow! That's a lot of Latin. Now, I am not an expert, but I have three kids doing Memoria Press's program, a 3rd grader, a 5th grader and a 6th grader. And I think they are getting a pretty good Latin education. We start in 3rd grade. As a pp mentioned, you're mixing up a whole bunch of programs. Pick a program and stick with it, is my advice. At least with MP's program, you really don't want to start much earlier than 2nd or 3rd grade. Prima Latina already starts in on grammar (nouns and verbs) and young children aren't learning that yet. So, unless you want to spend a couple years just memorizing vocabulary.... Although I don't really know what those programs teach. Maybe they are appropriate for early elementary. No offense, but your plan looks like overkill.

[Laura Corin]

Honestly, that's an awful lot of years when other things could be learned.  My boys did a living language first, then added in Latin.  Calvin is at university studying classics now, and is in no way disadvantaged.

 

His progression went something like:

 

 

Age 5 - 9 Mandarin

Age 9-10 Added in Minimus 1 and part of 2 quite casually

Age 10 to 13 Continued Mandarin, did Latin Prep 1-3, added in French

Age 13-16 Cambridge Latin (at school); continued French at school and Mandarin privately

Age 16-18 IB Latin (literature study) and French

 

L

Honestly, that's an awful lot of years when other things could be learned.  My boys did a living language first, then added in Latin.  Calvin is at university studying classics now, and is in no way disadvantaged.

 

His progression went something like:

 

 

Age 5 - 9 Mandarin

Age 9-10 Added in Minimus 1 and part of 2 quite casually

Age 10 to 13 Continued Mandarin, did Latin Prep 1-3, added in French

Age 13-16 Cambridge Latin (at school); continued French at school and Mandarin privately

Age 16-18 IB Latin (literature study) and French

 

L

 

 

What Laura modestly omits is that her son attends one of the best universities for classics in the world, whose students are probably some of the best prepared in the world.  If she knows, be interested to learn what the typical Latin/Greek progression is for these students -- I bet that very few of them started so young.

[Laura Corin]

If she knows, be interested to learn what the typical Latin/Greek progression is for these students -- I bet that very few of them started so young.

Standard progression at a UK state (public) school would be:

 

Begin Latin at age 11, using either a parts to whole curriculum such as Latin Prep or whole to parts such as Cambridge Latin. Start studying literature between ages 14 and 15. Continue with literature study from ages 16 to 18.

 

Private schools might start Latin a bit earlier, but Latin Prep (which is designed for this market) is recommended for year 5 (age 10) on the Galore Park website.  It is an ab initio course - expecting no previous knowledge of the language.

 

Minimus exists as a bit of fun in order to entice pupils into studying seriously later. It was designed to be used in after-school clubs or casually in school - the author used to teach at my old school, so I know a little about it.

 

Greek might be studied from age 10 too, but is fairly rare, even in private schools.

 

L

[beachpotato]

Thanks all for your help - I think I will just put it off for awhile and stick to Spanish.  :)