Crimson Wife Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 DS turned 9 in November and is considered a 3rd grader for the purposes of our charter. He loves, loves, loves science, especially physics, but has bumped up against the limits of what he can do in that subject without algebra. Singapore textbook + IP + CWP has been his math "spine" and he's almost done with 4B. I added in BA 3 towards the end of SM 3 and had waited to start BA 4 since 4C wasn't yet out when I ordered materials for fall semester. I'm finalizing our charter order for spring semester and I'm wondering if I should bother with BA 4. The "out-of-the-box" type BA problems are a good way to review & extend what he's learned in SM. However, he'll finish SM 5 that much faster if I'm not alternating it with BA 4. He likes BA better than SM, but getting to algebra faster would open up more options for him in science. WWYD in this situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 If you can get them to buy it, I'd go ahead and order it, but not necessarily plan to do it as a formal part of your study. My DD LOVES the BA books, and has even when she's done them years after she finished that grade's math, so having them on the shelf as a fun extra (say, for avoiding summer brain atrophy) would be good. I'd also suggest picking up LOF physics unless he completely hates Fred. It's not my favorite LOF book, but it does demonstrate quite a bit of physics without requiring formal algebra, and might help him bridge the gap. I well understand the science-minded kid who is hitting walls in math (which is why, last Spring, I ended up simultaneously doing AP statistics (IE-press these buttons in this order to do this test) and Pre-Algebra with the same kid!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 If you think he will be ready for AoPS preA from the maturity standpoint, just work through SM5. I am thinking about the experience of my older DS. He ran out of BA books in Sept. and finished SM5 at about that point. He has been very successful with AoPS preA, so basically your DS would be in the same shoes having finished only portion of BA and all of SM5. I would supplement only if you think he isn't ready either maturity or math wise for preA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 DS has matured a lot in the past 6 months or so when it comes to tackling the harder Singapore IP and BA problems. I think he's likely to mature that much more in however long it takes him to get through SM 5A & B (I'm guessing at least this spring semester, though who really knows with an "easy is hard and hard is easy" kid like him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 DS has matured a lot in the past 6 months or so when it comes to tackling the harder Singapore IP and BA problems. I think he's likely to mature that much more in however long it takes him to get through SM 5A & B (I'm guessing at least this spring semester, though who really knows with an "easy is hard and hard is easy" kid like him). I would only get BA if he wants it then. While I think having done exponents in BA was very useful for handling preA chapter on exponents, it doesn't appear that not finishing either BA 4 or 5 has been a hindrance to handling preA. I was said when I realized that my older outgrew BA, but at least I have a younger one who will get to do it all, hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 My major regret in math was slowing my son down with AoPS because I thought he was not going to be able to handle it. In hindsight, he was ready and I should have allowed for him to ease into the PreA. We should have just gone slower with the AoPS book in the beginning, rather than me trying to keep the pace the same by providing him simpler resources. I somehow expected that the extra time would then allow Ds to just pick right up with AoPS and run with it like any other curriculum as long as I just waited. I would have the charter buy PreA. If you can get them to purchase both, awesome! Something tells me they met not be on board with that. Beast is fun, and like dmmetler said above it would be great for the summer. If I know right it is cheaper too. So if it turns outs he needs Beast, then purchase out of pocket. Your could always run PreA next to Singapore 5. PreA starts with adding and subtracting series of numbers. It is nothing new at all. It is just a neat new way to think about already known concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Even with two weeks I can see more math maturity with DD. We are in algebra now but still buying BA as it comes out. Kids will be kids - just because they are in Pre-A or algebra doesn't mean that they won't need some time off and work on BA or something below their current math level. We did some Zaccaro, some Foerster, some BA in the last couple of weeks and went back again to AOPS. But you need to move forward, too, so while you are working in SM5, you may want to make sure that you have Pre-A with you, just in case you can fold in some of the beginning chapters. Kids can make huge jumps, stay in place, go back a bit, and I only have one kid to observe, which is why I have loads of math books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Crimson Wife Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 How does this "charter" work. Is it one where you basically homeschool and they give you a "budget"? Are you free to spend it how you like? Yes, out here in California there are "virtual charters" which give a stipend of several hundred dollars each semester that can be used to pay for secular materials and classes of my choice. The charter doesn't care if DS works above grade-level so long as he doesn't forget the on-level material (one reason why I reserve Fridays for review). They'd be fine with buying all 3 so long as I didn't go over budget. However, I don't think it makes sense to buy all 3 this semester since I don't think DS would get to both BA 4 and AOPS Pre-A if he's also doing SM 5. If I order BA 4, then I'd wait until fall to have them buy the pre-a book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Well, we have honestly done Singapore 5A/B, BA 4C and a bunch of other things so far this year. She has had some major math growth this year and is just getting concepts really well so we just keep moving on. We are starting pre-algebra this month... Either AoPS or Jousting Armadillos. Just mentioning because we have the weird situation of having used everything you mentioned within the same year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 We are currently doing BA 4A and AOPs Pre-algebra at the same time. DD loves BA and wants to finish the series. She's worked a little along on the 3A-3D books over the last year as review while she completed MUS Zeta & Pre-algebra and said she wanted to continue while she does AOPs pre-algebra book. She considers it a fun math break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Momling Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Just because he can do AOPS pre-algebra, doesn't mean he should. There's a window of time in your son's life when something like BA is fun and cool. The Pre-Algebra will still be there. So... Is BA still challenging and fun for your son? If so, stick with what's working. It's easy to skip forwards, but much harder to go backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1053 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The trouble is, BA is not there. They can't do grade 5 BA because it doesn't exist yet. No, she's talking about this next semester and BA 4C. She said her son enjoyed it but she thought she could get him to algebra sooner if she stopped alternating it with SM5. I'd argue that we shouldn't stop using what is working well. Big algebra textbooks come soon enough but BA has a fairly small window of time in which a child will enjoy it. Math isn't a race to some imaginary Algebra or Calculus finish line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'd be tempted to buy workbooks only, not the guides, for 4C and D along with Prealgebra. Eta, I don't know how much MM you have, but I'd also be tempted to use the BA workbooks for the fun/extra/different topics and extra depth sections in "regular" topics, and then compact lessons in MM5 (or more likely the blue topic books) to cover the fifth grade stuff required before the Prealgebra text (whatever parts of fraction/decimal/percent topics and negative numbers he hasn't learned already). As another alternative I wonder how tricky it would be to fish through MEP for the topic coverage you'd need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SierraNevada Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 We have started pre-a using (just Life of Fred) with the idea of going to Aops next for a second round. We also did SM and BA alternating (also LOF). I ended up not finishing out the SM5b books because it was just easy for him and with two rounds of Pre-A planned he will get plenty of everything in 5b. We also only used the BA chapters that were new/oddball topics. But seeing as how all those topics will be covered anyway, again, in AoPS I don't know that it is necessary. It certainly seems like an acceptable way to accelerate. I guess the thing you ought to question is do you want to accelerate into Algebra because he is really ready for it now and needs the acceleration to stay engaged/challenged in math. Or do you simply want to accelerate into it to help him move up in physics, but he really could use more time developing in lower math? Both are fine, so long as you know your intentions. For us it was the second answer...DS really wants to do the LOF Chemistry book he got and I told him he needed to at least cover all the LOF Pre-A books before he started it. So we started them while still not completely finished with BA4 and SM5b. I will probably have him finish them off as they won't take much time, maybe one day a week. But the more I see pre-A, the more I realize that it will completely review anything I missed and I expect that Aops will do a very thorough job of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 If you are near your quota, BA4 workbooks and PreAlgebra. SM5 can be finished in weeks so not worth it if you intend to get to AoPS PreAlg faster. If you can teach the math needed for the physics he want to learn then just teach it. Maybe borrow a algebra textbook from your charter's library. A child can learn trigonometry, simultaneous equations, differentiation ... out of sequence to PS textbooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Crimson Wife Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Just because he can do AOPS pre-algebra, doesn't mean he should. There's a window of time in your son's life when something like BA is fun and cool. The Pre-Algebra will still be there. So... Is BA still challenging and fun for your son? If so, stick with what's working. It's easy to skip forwards, but much harder to go backwards. DS would be fine with BA 4 and if it weren't for the science, I wouldn't be conflicted. He's chomping at the bit to get to more in-depth physics study but he needs algebra for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Math doesn't need to be linear. You could always go through quickly now so he can get to the algebra, and then pull out BA 4 for fun stuff if he hits a frustrating bump in the road. There are often so many good little bits in the AoPS/BA series that anyone, with any math background, can enjoy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 If you can teach the math needed for the physics he want to learn then just teach it. Maybe borrow a algebra textbook from your charter's library. A child can learn trigonometry, simultaneous equations, differentiation ... out of sequence to PS textbooks. Because of wanting to get ahead of my older student, I already have a number of high school math texts on my shelf. He's been introduced to some easy algebra via BA, SM, and HoE, but I'm thinking he'd need quite a bit more in order to move on in physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 He's been introduced to some easy algebra via BA, SM, and HoE, but I'm thinking he'd need quite a bit more in order to move on in physics. Try Intermediate Algebra by Lial, Hornsby, and McGinnis 10th ed. I borrowed a copy through ILL/Link+ last year to look through as it was the recommended text for EPGY. Or you can just move on to AoPS for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 That's where, if he likes LOF, Fred physics may be a good fit. Since it's designed to be used before Algebra, it shows ways to get the desired results without relying on algebra. I also think it could be used as a bridge to algebra-my DD did it after LOF PA and Key to Algebra, and often would look at the sets and then ask "what about doing it like this?"-so it was a good chance to show her that, yes, she was right (and to introduce a little bit of calculus. We ended up getting several Calc texts-everything from the Cartoon Guide to Calculus and Calculus for Dummies to DH's old Anton book from undergrad school). We also ended up doing much the same for statistics-working backwards from the tests she needed/wanted to figure out what she needed to do. And if that meant integration under a curve, so be it. As a Math Ed grad student, I would have shuddered at the idea of teaching a kid calculus before they'd completed pre-algebra, but honestly, when a kid WANTS to know something and has need of it, it's surprising what they can pick up and run with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_go_gadget Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 When my DS9 ran out of BA we used a few pages from the MM blue series to cover topics (integers, decimals, order of operations review) that would be covered in fifth grade, and went straight into Pre-A. He's doing very well with it, so you might try that. My daughter should be finishing 4C as 4D is published, and it sounds like it might be pretty much the same for your son. She won't be able to wait around for BA5, but BA4 will cover the topics that my son missed because 4C and 4D hadn't been published yet when he needed them. I plan to start her on Pre-A when she finishes 4D, and if we need to pause occasionally to acquire background for a Pre-A topic, that's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 DS would be fine with BA 4 and if it weren't for the science, I wouldn't be conflicted. He's chomping at the bit to get to more in-depth physics study but he needs algebra for that. Another option may be going forward with physics and your son can learn math through physics. I did that with my science-lover when he was in elementary math. He was more motivated to learn the math that way too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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