ELTL

[Hunter]

Time flies, and my memory is just trash, but the fall before last fall, I used some of ELTL when it had a different name. There were less levels, and some of the fables were a bit different, and I'm not sure what other changes have taken place.

 

Can someone get me up to speed on what is going on with ELTL? And how I might be able to fit it into a mostly Simply Charlotte Mason curriculum?

 

Can I just substitute Alpha-Phonics for RLTL?

 

There is poetry in ELTL, right, so I would skip the SCM poetry books?

 

If I were doing SCM picture study, I'd skip the ELTL picture studies? Are there ELTL picture studies all the way through the upper levels? Are they more art, or more language arts prompts?

 

At this point, I'm thinking SCM mostly. Tiner and Mr Q for science. Math Mammoth Dark Blue based on the scope and sequence in the free vintage Eclectic Manual of Methods. And either LLATL or ELTL for language arts.

 

I have used copies of all the LLATL teacher manuals and they are okay. Some of my students prefer printed students pages, and before I invest in any LLATL student pages, I just want to make sure I don't want to switch over to ELTL. I VASTLY prefer the literature selections in ELTL to those in LLATL Yellow-Gray.

[Coco_Clark]

Language Lessons Through Literature was the old name. There were less levels but I was under the impression that the lower levels that have been printed under both titles (1-3) did not change. The upper levels (4+) have only been printed under the new title. Again, at least that's been my impression.

 

I am only familiar with levels 1-3 so I may be of limited use.

 

1-3 have poetry included in every lesson. I love the poetry selections. The picture study is art based, unless you count the "narration" of picture study as a literature prompt. But I'd personally use the SCM art study- I feel it is superior.

[Hunter]

I really like that much of SCM is K-12 and ungraded. I really want an ungraded spine right now for some students. And I need to find a language arts curriculum that complements SCM and doesn't take up too much time, and isn't endless list of resources for me to lose track of.

 

LLATL is good enough, but tracking down and obtaining the literature books when I need them is a pain. It's hard to spend money, especially on the shipping, when I'm not even that thrilled with the selections.

 

I had forgotten about ELTL. The all public domain literature is VERY attractive to me, right now.

[SEGway]

I believe that the very first printing of level 3 (Language Lessons, now English Lessons) had Aesop's Fables, but in a revised edition those were changed to stories about Nasrudin (sp?), instead. I think that might be the only significant change. 

 

I have levels 1-4 (using level 1 for a 7yo 1st grader, and level 3 for a 9yo 4th grader this year). 

 

You could totally use something completely separate for phonics/spelling (skip RLtL altogether) and not be missing anything. It's not integrated/required to pair with ELtL for either to be effective.

 

If you had a different way to study fine art (or wanted to skip it), it wouldn't detract from the rest of the program. (IMO) 

Some copywork and grammar exercises are tied to the literature reading, but the poetry and picture study are kind of independent elements. (Hopefully, this is clear. But, I kind of feel like it's not. Feel free to ask for clarification. :) )

 

I've liked most of the literature selections, but I think (having used two levels for a semester or so) I could now put in just about any substitute literature that I preferred and still get the maximum benefit. (Which I'm considering for next year when I'll have a different 1st grader who just listened to all the stories this year....)

 

Also...I had and sold both of Emma Serl's grammar books (I think SCM uses those for grammar), and personally, I like ELtL much better. But, that might be style more than anything truly substantive. That was a while ago. 

 

 

[SEGway]

Oops! I just looked. Serl is not mentioned at all that I saw on SCM. Feel free to disregard anything I just said that has to do with those books. (Sorry!)

[Hunter]

I looked at the SCM suggested Analytical Grammar resources and panicked. Not only are they expensive, but they are only hardcopy and not eBook.

 

Maybe, Serl was suggested in the past?

 

That sounds right about the fables being changed in book 3. I remember something fairly significant was being changed right as I was bailing, and at least something involved fables. I'm very unclear if that was it, or if there was anything else.

 

Has anyone used books 4 or 5? Is 6 out yet? I was looking at samples today, and now I forget if there was a book 6. The author answered at the yahoo group that there will be a book 8, but I forget exactly what she wrote. I need to read it again. I have a migraine, and I'm really foggy and disorganized today.

[Hunter]

I ended out just reading the books at our own pace and using English for the Thoughtful Child and Climbing to Good English (could have picked one or the other but I like them both :closedeyes: ).

 

Tying all the LA into what we were reading turned out to not be all that, honestly. Obviously I know you're dealing with disparate circumstances and students that I, Hunter :)

What is developing here, is that I'm finding that students need to self-soothe and find some rhythm more than they need to gain skills. I used to VERY skills focused with them. We had very defined and measurable goals and we attacked the holes in their education.

 

Over time, I realized they needed rhythm and relationship, and more of a focus on body and soul as much as mind. I think they need these ungraded rotations and more fiction, preferably fiction that they can download on Amazon whispersync apps on their phones.

 

If CGE was an eBook I'd maybe use it, but I'm way too lazy to scan that series and still figure out what I need to add. It is solid for the skills it covers. I like CGE.

 

LLATL is good enough in general. I'm just really annoyed today while pricing the silly little paperbacks I don't have and think I'll need in the next couple months. And I have one student in particular that likes printed student pages, and I don't want to purchase them before I take a last look at what else is available that will work well with SCM history.

[ncmomof5]

Hunter,

 

I am currently using ELTL levels 1, 2, and 4.  I am also using RLTL, but as others have said, the two don't need to be done together. 

 

 

Just for background's sake, I have used LLATL, R&S, English for the Thoughtful Child, Easy Grammar, Primary Language Lessons and maybe one or two others.  :)  I love language arts, but I have some children who struggle in this area and finding a good fit for them has not always been easy. 

 

Currently, I have a 7th grade son using Level 4 of ELTL and it is a PERFECT fit.  He is understanding and retaining the grammar - first time that has happened for him.  He is enjoying the literature selections.  He struggles a little with the writing assignments, but that would be the case no matter what we use. (I haven't had him formally tested, but I suspect he struggles with some kind of LD).  It has been a very positive experience for him overall.

 

I have my 4th grade son using Level 2.  He had already done most of R&S Grade 2 with very little to no retention.  Once I switched him from R&S to ELTL in the spring of last year, he went from just putting up with Language Arts to actually enjoying it.  One of THE BEST parts of ELTL for this child is the free audio books on librivox.  I can get most of the actual books from the library, but this child still struggles with reading unfamiliar words, and I knew that he would have a hard time reading some of the literature selections for ELTL 2 on his own.  So, I have had him listen to his literature chapter on librivox while following along in his library book.  I really think this is improving his reading ability and comprehension.  For him, the grammar lessons are quick and easy at this point, but I think the literature and copywork are the important part for him right now.  I know that he will see all the grammar concepts again in the coming years, so we are just working for exposure to these abstract concepts while cementing the primary skills like word attack and reading comprehension. 

 

Lastly, I actually have my first grader using Level 1.  We enjoy reading the literature selections together and the grammar is just enough, but not too much.  The copywork is just the right amount for her at this point.   She doesn't struggle with school like her brothers, so I can see her using and enjoying ELTL on grade level all the way through.

 

As far as using ELTL alongside SCM: I don't see why not.  I am currently using MFW and it is working just fine. 

 

I really do like ELTL.  It has enough structure and review to keep this grammar loving mamma happy, but it does it in a gentle, easy to use, all in one book kind of way.  I would like it if she had developed the poetry area a little more to include info on the poet (She kinds of sticks with the same one for awhile.) and maybe some discussion of poetic vocabulary (alliteration, personification, etc), but it really wouldn't be that hard for me to include some of that on my own.  I just need to plan ahead and do a little research. Maybe something I can work on over the summer to incorporate for next year. 

 

Hope this helps a little as you ponder your future direction.  If you have any specific questions about the levels I am using,  I will do my best to answer them. 

 

RuthAnn

One who lurks much and posts little:)

 

[Hunter]

I'm really undecided right now. I have almost all the hardcopy TMs for LLATL, a few of the literature books, one eBook TM, and no student books.

 

In the END it'll cost me about the same amount no matter what I choose. But in the short-term I can muck along using library books and just the TMs. And I KNOW what LLATL is like for ALL the levels I want to use. It's a sure thing.

 

I don't have the ELTL books to see, and don't know for SURE it's going to work all the way through. So, if I invest money and time in just the level I need this term, I could be wasting time and money I could have spent just sticking with what I started.

 

I really need to buckle down and choose. I can immediately buckle down for free if I stick with LLATL.

 

I came so close to buying the level 2 TM this morning and then I chickened out. If I buy that, I can't buy anything to make LLATL easier. Level 2 ELTL is $20 plus $15. $35 is a lot and I think the upper years are more, right? That isn't overpriced! Especially when it uses all public domain texts, but...it'll be a strain for ME right NOW. If I do THAT, that's it. I'm all done and stuck.

 

LLATL is just NOT awful, and not awful is...well...doable and certain. The ELTL public domain texts are SUCH a draw, though!

 

I think I'm going to buy NOTHING, and use what I have of LLATL or a vintage book.

[sarasue7272]

I am about to buy ELTL 2 (ebook version) for $20, instant download. What is the extra $15 for? The hard copy is $25 on amazon.

You can download samples that include 6 lessons, the table of contents, and all the introduction.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/search.ep?keyWords=english+lessons+through+literature+2&type=

 

I was getting kind of bored with level 1 with my second grader, so we are moving up to level 2.

[Hunter]

The optional student pages are $15.00. You don't need them. Or at least the book I used in 2013 didn't need the optional student pages.

 

I have a new printer and some students just REALLY like to have student pages. With either curriculum, I'm thinking of investing in student pages. But as I'm pricing my options, I have the feeling that isn't going to happen with either curriculum.

[Hunter]

It looks like the main text eBooks are $15, $20, $25, $35, $35, and the workbooks for 1-4 are $15.00 each. They are absolutely not overpriced! But, I think I'm going to stick with LLATL, for now. Student pages are the same price for both curricula and thankfully they are not needed for either one, which is just awesome in both cases.

 

Customer service is better with Lulu and ELTL. LLATL eBooks are NOT instant downloads! So you cannot buy LLATL in the middle of the night while having curriculum panic. :lol: It really annoys me that I have to wait days to recieve my eBooks for LLATL.

 

Has anyone else struggled with deciding between these 2 curricula?

 

I'm going around in circles here, and flip flopping from second to second.

 

RuthAnn can you tell me more about level 4. Rigorous can be WIDE as well as difficuly. LLATL is more 1990's public schooly. I'm worried that ELTL might be too rigorous. Sometimes with rigor, it's not just as simple as doing the series slower. Sometimes the scope and sequence is so much wider and covers things that are awsome, but not ESSENTIAL. Often they are essential to completing the upper level of the series, but not essential to daily life. Are the progym exercises pretty practical?

[silver]

My K'er daughter is so in love with ELTL that even though I've been doing level 1 with her older brother, she will sit and do it all with me, including the copywork. She loves stories and loves "cuddle on the couch school" (which is what she calls it). So right now my son uses it a level behind and my daughter uses it a level ahead. If it starts to be too hard for both of them at any level, I'll switch to half pace. If it gets too hard for just the younger one, I'll drop her from it and just do copywork and read Nesbit's Grammarland to her for a year.

[3byzaz]

Butting in here a little.  I am also having some of the same quandries!  My youngest in 6th now has some trouble with LA.  We have always used CLE which I love.  But, I switched him out since it was obviously too much of a struggle.  So, this year we have been doing EG 6, R&S Spelling, EIW and he takes a WriteShop co-op class that I teach.  The EG has not gone well - honestly, I just think he doesn't 'get' grammar...which is totally fine and I imagine it will click at some point.  I also dropped CLE Reading with him...same reasons.  So...I just ordered and received LLATL tan.  It looks OK.  Nothing spectacular...I suspected I wouldn't love it but thought I would try it with him to get in some grammar in a different way and more literature.  Last time I looked at ELTL there were only 3 levels out.  I am happy to see more and it looks really awesome to me.  I like the samples much better than I like the look of LLATL.  

 

I guess my question is to someone who has used it:  is there built in review or does it only do nouns the one place I see them (early on)?  Or, is the review inherent cuz I do see diagramming (yea!)??  Also, as somewhat 'easier' as LLATL seems and I know this is a typical criticism - but isn't always the case, ELTL definitely does not seem to be that.  It seems more advanced.  The level 4 stuff was pretty tough from what I saw.  So, even though i was looking for 6th or 7th work - the 5th level would probably be where he would be??  Does that makes sense?? Also, how teacher dependent is it - not sure I care either way - just curious!   Appreciate any feedback anyone has.  Thanks so much!

[stutterfish]

Hunter,

 

I am currently using ELTL levels 1, 2, and 4. I am also using RLTL, but as others have said, the two don't need to be done together.

 

 

Just for background's sake, I have used LLATL, R&S, English for the Thoughtful Child, Easy Grammar, Primary Language Lessons and maybe one or two others. :) I love language arts, but I have some children who struggle in this area and finding a good fit for them has not always been easy.

 

Currently, I have a 7th grade son using Level 4 of ELTL and it is a PERFECT fit. He is understanding and retaining the grammar - first time that has happened for him. He is enjoying the literature selections. He struggles a little with the writing assignments, but that would be the case no matter what we use. (I haven't had him formally tested, but I suspect he struggles with some kind of LD). It has been a very positive experience for him overall.

 

I have my 4th grade son using Level 2. He had already done most of R&S Grade 2 with very little to no retention. Once I switched him from R&S to ELTL in the spring of last year, he went from just putting up with Language Arts to actually enjoying it. One of THE BEST parts of ELTL for this child is the free audio books on librivox. I can get most of the actual books from the library, but this child still struggles with reading unfamiliar words, and I knew that he would have a hard time reading some of the literature selections for ELTL 2 on his own. So, I have had him listen to his literature chapter on librivox while following along in his library book. I really think this is improving his reading ability and comprehension. For him, the grammar lessons are quick and easy at this point, but I think the literature and copywork are the important part for him right now. I know that he will see all the grammar concepts again in the coming years, so we are just working for exposure to these abstract concepts while cementing the primary skills like word attack and reading comprehension.

 

Lastly, I actually have my first grader using Level 1. We enjoy reading the literature selections together and the grammar is just enough, but not too much. The copywork is just the right amount for her at this point. She doesn't struggle with school like her brothers, so I can see her using and enjoying ELTL on grade level all the way through.

 

As far as using ELTL alongside SCM: I don't see why not. I am currently using MFW and it is working just fine.

 

I really do like ELTL. It has enough structure and review to keep this grammar loving mamma happy, but it does it in a gentle, easy to use, all in one book kind of way. I would like it if she had developed the poetry area a little more to include info on the poet (She kinds of sticks with the same one for awhile.) and maybe some discussion of poetic vocabulary (alliteration, personification, etc), but it really wouldn't be that hard for me to include some of that on my own. I just need to plan ahead and do a little research. Maybe something I can work on over the summer to incorporate for next year.

 

Hope this helps a little as you ponder your future direction. If you have any specific questions about the levels I am using, I will do my best to answer them.

 

RuthAnn

One who lurks much and posts little:)

Agreed. I like ELTL. I've used level 2 for my late reader (she didn't read until age 9), and we've recently started level 3.

 

If you find it easy to integrate a variety of language arts and literature and picture study into your day you probably don't need ELTL, but ELTL is one of the few things that actually gets done in our house. It doesn't take long to do each day, it is gentle and at first almost seems too lightweight, but the incremental drip...drip...drip really seems to be working for my dd. We get the books as audio books. I dislike the poetry (far too old fashioned and twee), so we use our own poetry collections.

[stutterfish]

Butting in here a little. I am also having some of the same quandries! My youngest in 6th now has some trouble with LA. We have always used CLE which I love. But, I switched him out since it was obviously too much of a struggle. So, this year we have been doing EG 6, R&S Spelling, EIW and he takes a WriteShop co-op class that I teach. The EG has not gone well - honestly, I just think he doesn't 'get' grammar...which is totally fine and I imagine it will click at some point. I also dropped CLE Reading with him...same reasons. So...I just ordered and received LLATL tan. It looks OK. Nothing spectacular...I suspected I wouldn't love it but thought I would try it with him to get in some grammar in a different way and more literature. Last time I looked at ELTL there were only 3 levels out. I am happy to see more and it looks really awesome to me. I like the samples much better than I like the look of LLATL.

 

I guess my question is to someone who has used it: is there built in review or does it only do nouns the one place I see them (early on)? Or, is the review inherent cuz I do see diagramming (yea!)?? Also, as somewhat 'easier' as LLATL seems and I know this is a typical criticism - but isn't always the case, ELTL definitely does not seem to be that. It seems more advanced. The level 4 stuff was pretty tough from what I saw. So, even though i was looking for 6th or 7th work - the 5th level would probably be where he would be?? Does that makes sense?? Also, how teacher dependent is it - not sure I care either way - just curious! Appreciate any feedback anyone has. Thanks so much!

I can only speak of my experience with levels 2 and the beginning of level 3, but yes there is some review built in within the level. Plus, the beginning of level 3 reviews what has been learned in level 2. It certainly requires teacher input, but it doesn't feel too onerous. My dd does the copywork independently, she listens to audio version of the literature, I read the poetry to her, she narrates the fable, we discuss the picture study together, etc. Because a session can be completed quite quickly and efficiently and it feels like we are sharing the experience, I don't resent the time I put into it. My dd is 11, but i far prefer to work at the stage she is comfortable at than worry about grade level. Hopefully someone can give more input about the higher levels :)

[Hunter]

The author of ELTL is allowing me to preview all the levels. God Bless her!

 

I'll be able to give you all a better review and comparison by tomorrow.

 

My initial impression is that although ELTL is more rigorous than LLATL, and has a more classical flavor, that it will be possible to use it "behind". The scope and sequence is not ridiculously wide for remedial students or gifted students that are being given a compacted curriculum to move them into more rigor more quickly.

[ncmomof5]

Hunter,

 

I am so glad Kathy Jo is letting you take a peek at all the levels.  Sometimes no matter what anyone else tells you about a curriculum, you just can't know for sure until you can peruse it for yourself. 

 

But I will still give you my assessment of level 4 and you can take it or leave it once you have had a chance to look at it yourself. 

 

I find all the lessons in Level 4 to be purposeful and incremental.  There is no busy work.  Each lesson is written to the student, and my 7th grader reads and does most of the lesson on his own.  I think the progym writing exercises are really genius.  Once I really thought about it, having them find different ways to say things is an important part of getting comfortable with the writing process. ( My oldest child struggles with not knowing how to say what she is trying to say.  I wish I had done progym writing exercises with her when she was younger.) Kathy Jo reminds them each time they do this that it's not about making the sentence better but about making it different.  We have really had fun with these exercises.  She also includes writing outlines (which we did today), literary writing exercises, condensed, amplified and point of view narrations, etc. 

 

Each day the lesson is a little different, but it also has a routine and structure that makes it flow smoothly for me even while managing multiple levels. 

 

Couple more thoughts:

I like that she has a reminder each day to review the memory work.  I really think that those few minutes of reviewing the definitions of the parts of speech, etc, help to solidify the material for my son.  The fact that there are only 3 sentences to label and diagram each day is awesome.  We do these on the white board together.  That's much better than the long list of exercises in R&S.

 

I think that there is a gentle rigor about ELTL that comes because of the drip, drip, drip someone mentioned above.  It's very thorough in that it covers all the topics you would expect a grammar program to cover, but it doesn't try to rush the child through or weigh him down with too many follow up assignments. 

 

The best part is that we really love the literature choices.  My son told me today that he didn't need to read his literature chapter because he read it before he went to bed last night, because it's just a good book.  My children are reading and enjoying good classic literature that we weren't getting to before. :thumbup:

 

I hope that helps, Hunter.  I am sure once you look through the levels, you will know for sure one way or the other.  Let us know what you decide.

 

RuthAnn

 

[Hunter]

Ruthann, thank you for that review. That is exactly what I am seeing in the books.

 

I have been reading translations of ancient progym curriculums since the 90's but find that modern interpretations are a bit...I struggle for the word. Impractical? Unwieldy? As much as I liked the THEORY of progym, I had pretty much given up on it, at least for my remedial students. I have some renewed hope for using progym after looking at the upper levels.

 

I still haven't had time to read the books as well as I want, but the more I read, the more hopeful I am.

 

I don't need ELTL to be better than LLATL, and it can even be inferior in a few places in exchange for the huge benefit of the public domain literature selections. But it has to be DOABLE. It's fine if it rigorous, but works well "behind" schedule, as long as it's DOABLE. In my quick look it looks practical and doable. How many times am I going to use the word doable? :lol: I think that is enough times to get my point across. :D

[Hunter]

Oh, and when the introduction mentions a 2 book series, is it meaning levels 4 and 5, or levels 5 and 6?

[Hunter]

I like that book 4 includes a couple extra chapters of book 5, for students that are using the series below grade level, to get them up to speed with introductions and conclusions. That is very useful.

[Hunter]

Is anyone using the plan of 2 lessons a week instead of 3, and spreading 2 books over 3 years? That would mean books 2-5 would take 6 years and could be used alongside a 6 year SCM rotation. If the 2 book series is books 4 and 5, that looks like a nice tight curriculum.

[Hunter]

 So, even though i was looking for 6th or 7th work - the 5th level would probably be where he would be??  Does that makes sense?? Also, how teacher dependent is it - not sure I care either way - just curious!   Appreciate any feedback anyone has.  Thanks so much!

 

The 5th grade book is pretty rigorous. If the student has been doing the earlier levels, the program looks solid enough that some 5th graders will be ready for that work, but coming into the program from something else, book 5 is pretty advanced.

 

I'm still stuck in the back-to-basics era of the 1980's and 1990's with narrow scope and sequences, and the efficiency of later introductions to topics, but expectations of mastery of what is presented. I'd have no trouble doing book 4 in 7/8th and book 5 in 8/9th grade, if I followed the book 4 instructions of adding the introductions and conclusions chapters from book 5. But, like I said, I'm stuck in pre-Y2K thinking, and that is NOT internationally competitive.

[Hunter]

 ELTL is one of the few things that actually gets done in our house.

 

That is my priority right now. Number 1, will it get DONE? LLATL was getting done, but keeping up with tracking down affordable copies of the literature selections was a challenge. It wasn't an insurmountable challenge, but more of an annoyance.

[CherryBlossomMJ]

*following* (I use ELTL1 and RLTL1 with Wayfarers Ancients with an advanced 5 year old. We call it K5 but she's doing mostly 1st Grade stuff.)

[vaquitita]

Nm

Edited December 12, 2015 by vaquitita

[Hunter]

I have decided to give ELTL a try for the next few month and see how it goes.

 

My plan is to use the ELTL picture studies and the poetry and NOT use the SCM poetry and picture studies. When considering price, that is another savings, that frees up more money to afford the ELTL books themselves.

 

I think I will be using the plan of 2 books stretched over 3 years.

 

CGE is a lot more independent than ELTL. CGE covers some poetry but does not include narrative works of literature. CGE is expected to be used alongside Pathway Readers and workbooks and vocabulary workbooks, Pentime Handwriting, and a separate spelling curriculum. The Amish curriculum is EXCELLENT, but I cannot afford the shipping especially on all those workbooks and it's just too time intensive. CGE is an EXCELLENT curriculum depending on your needs, and one that I would go back to using in certain circumstances with certain students.

 

I have not seen Wayfarers, so cannot comment in it. About half my students tend to be KJV ladies, and BIble is often the main and sometimes ONLY literature book. My plan is to stick with SCM for now, but if there are more levels of Wayfarers published, I'll take a look at it, then. Any K-12 family style rotation catches my attention.

[Coco_Clark]

I've been following this thread with interest, because I keep going back and looking at ELTL. I like he looks of it, but am unsure how it compares to what we are using (CGE) and how practical it is for me.

 

I love the way it teaches grammar in context of real books. And the copy work wnd dictation I would use. It's the poetry and picture study that gives me pause, we currently do these as a family. It doesn't make sense to do these individually, it just adds to my workload. OTOH if I did use ELTL with all my kids, than I no longer have to pick and schedule poetry and art study... And those do sometimes get pushed aside. We do them often enough, but if they pushed aside now, what's going to happen when more of my kids are school aged and my day is even busier? And then the literature you have to read, do you read his in addition to your other lit? Or do you use the ELTL lit as your only lit? Next year I was going to simplify by combining my kids in lit, but with ELTL I would have to have separate lit for each kid? OTOH, if it combines the CGE, copywork, poetry and art study we currently do... Then it would mean less pieces to our day, and I could read separate lit books. Actually, I was going to read one lit book to all my kids and assign another to my oldest to read himself, so we could just use the ELTL lit picks instead of what I picked. What happens if the lessons use a book you've already read?

I have two kids at different places of ELTL.

 

Anyways, I do one kid M/W/F and the other T/TH. It wouldn't be too hard to do M/W/F and M/T/TH if I didn't have DS5 going at part speed.

 

We use the poetry, fables, and picture study on the oldsters schedule together. They listen to the chapter book alone (generally on audio book as long as the librivox reader is good) and then come to me for the lesson, memory work, and copywork. It's an extremely do-able program.

 

Since it's only three days a week we use other books as our literature. I have toyed with the idea of going 5 days a week, using it as my lit, and then taking a "break" after each ELTL book to read our own lit choice and choose our own poetry and copy-work. But I've never done it.

 

If its a book we've done and don't want to do again then I simply assign a different book, choose a copy work sentence from it, and teach the lesson according to that different sentence. It's a little work to find a sentence that pertains to the lesson, but not much. I've also done it when we didn't particularly want to read that book.

[vaquitita]

Nm

Edited December 12, 2015 by vaquitita

[vaquitita]

Nm

Edited December 12, 2015 by vaquitita

[Slache]

I have decided to give ELTL a try for the next few month and see how it goes.

 

My plan is to use the ELTL picture studies and the poetry and NOT use the SCM poetry and picture studies. When considering price, that is another savings, that frees up more money to afford the ELTL books themselves.

 

I think I will be using the plan of 2 books stretched over 3 years.

 

CGE is a lot more independent than ELTL. CGE covers some poetry but does not include narrative works of literature. CGE is expected to be used alongside Pathway Readers and workbooks and vocabulary workbooks, Pentime Handwriting, and a separate spelling curriculum. The Amish curriculum is EXCELLENT, but I cannot afford the shipping especially on all those workbooks and it's just too time intensive. CGE is an EXCELLENT curriculum depending on your needs, and one that I would go back to using in certain circumstances with certain students.

 

I have not seen Wayfarers, so cannot comment in it. About half my students tend to be KJV ladies, and BIble is often the main and sometimes ONLY literature book. My plan is to stick with SCM for now, but if there are more levels of Wayfarers published, I'll take a look at it, then. Any K-12 family style rotation catches my attention.

Tell us what you think and how you think the 2 days a week goes. I was contemplating starting level 1 in K because 1 & 2 are supposed to be really easy, but I don't want to completely overwhelm him in level 3. 2 days a week seems like the perfect solution.

[Hunter]

Tell us what you think and how you think the 2 days a week goes. I was contemplating starting level 1 in K because 1 & 2 are supposed to be really easy, but I don't want to completely overwhelm him in level 3. 2 days a week seems like the perfect solution.

I really like the memory work list at the end of the books. I want to spend more time on the memory work and reinforcing the lessons in reading the BIble. I think the 2 days will work well.

 

The more I read the books and talk to the author, I think finishing book 5 will be my end goal for some students. Books 2-5 can be spread out over either a 4 or 6 year history rotation, depending on whether 2 or 3 lessons are completed. It all looks nice and tidy to me.

[Hunter]

Thank you. Audio books is a great idea. My kids love audio books and would like listening to these books again, I'm the one who doesn't want to reread them.

I adore whispersync sets and I think all the ELTL selections come in a whipersync set, most for just 99 cents.

[Hunter]

 

Well, I am not using the pathway workbooks or vocabulary workbooks or pentime or a spelling curriculum....

 

I had chickened out of switching because I felt like I have switched too much in the past when I should have just made it work. (Otoh I stuck with italic for a long time even though it was not working and now I wish I'd switched sooner) but when I woke up this morning my head as full of all the good reasons to switch to ELTL, which is funny since I went to bed thinking the opposite.

 

Right now my son can do CGE and copywork independently, but I know I really need to be working with him to improve because these are his weak areas... And to be honest with myself, picture study and poetry are definitely getting neglected. And I struggle with scheduling these and that's just going to get harder next year. Having them (along with copywork and dictation!) already scheduled in for me, less things to worry about and plan, would be nice. With the aesops fables in it, hthat would give me a good chance to work with him on narrating... i felt like ELTL was redundant with what we were doing, but really only with what we used to do and what I currently plan but don't accomplish. I need to go look over the samples again and decide whether to put my son in level 3, which he could do, or in level 2 to make it easier than what I think he could do and build him up...

I don't like switching myself and I don't like to encourage others to switch. CGE is a strong program and does what it does well. I personally cannot keep up with buying the workbooks and I personally cannot devote that much time to just comp and grammar, without it including more of the other language arts. Right NOW I don't have any students that I want to reduce the literature and Bible reading enough to do more composition.

 

One thing I like about starting students with level 2, is that level 2 starts the Wizard of Oz series.

[stutterfish]

One thing I like is that it encourages me to introduce books to my dd that I'd never have chosen to read to her. I loathed 'Wind in the Willows' when I read it as a child and tbh I'm not often a fan of the so-called children's 'classics', but if it's on the ELTL 'list' I feel obliged to download the audio book and give it a go. And you know what? I found out that Wind in the Willows wasn't so bad, after all ;)

 

Oh, and for those who prefer a more secular approach, although there are biblical quotes for copywork, these are additional to the literature copy work, so easy to skip if needed. We do :)

[vaquitita]

Nm

Edited December 12, 2015 by vaquitita

[Slache]

I really like the memory work list at the end of the books. I want to spend more time on the memory work and reinforcing the lessons in reading the BIble. I think the 2 days will work well.

 

The more I read the books and talk to the author, I think finishing book 5 will be my end goal for some students. Books 2-5 can be spread out over either a 4 or 6 year history rotation, depending on whether 2 or 3 lessons are completed. It all looks nice and tidy to me.

Yes, that's a huge part of what gets my attention. I love the look of MCT, LLATL, LREG, but they're so complicated. ELTL just seems... more complete and easy to teach. Then there's classics, poetry, and picture study. Boom. Covered.

 

Do you know if she's doing 5 with a 6th year of review, 6 with a 7th year of review, or 7 with an 8th year of review? She hadn't decided last I checked.

[Hunter]

I hope I'm getting this right! I think the author said the 2 book set was cancelled. Book 6 will be mostly review of 5. Book 7 will introduce new topics. Book 8 is probably a definite, but I forget exactly what she said about it. There might be some review for high school, maybe keyed to a history text in Wayfarers.

 

In the meantime, I think a student can hop from ELTL 5 to LLATL pretty seamlessly. Green would be quite a bit of review, but might be a good place to jump back in. I think a strong student, with a teacher able to fill in some very small holes could go straight from ELTL 5 to LLATL Gold. LLATL Gold isn't as comprehensive as the earlier levels and focuses on an overview of American and British literature.

 

This is just ONE possible scope and sequence

 

ELTL 1 grades 1-2

ELTL 2-5 grades 3-8 (2 lessons a week and 4 books over 6 years)

LLATL Green grade 9 (optional)

LLATL Gray grade 10 (optional)

LLATL Gold American grade 11

LLATL Gold British grade 12

 

[Coco_Clark]

We have split ELTL1 over 2 years and adored the pacing of it.  Well, more like 1.5 years.  I started them as soon as they were reading well enough to read the copywork sentences and writing well enough to be trusted to write the copywork with proper letter formation.  For DS5 that was only a few weeks into his Pre-K year, and he will finish as he finishes K.  For DS7 that was the middle of his K year and he will finish it as he finishes 1st this Spring.

 

I'd never considered drawing ELTL2 over two years as well.  Since they will be starting it in 1st and 2nd grades respectively, that might be a good idea.  I have ELTL3 and it is a pretty big jump (IMO), I know the author herself uses it as a 4th grade program.  
 

 

[mamamindy]

I've tried to keep up here, and have been wanting to respond, but sadly my computer time has been limited this week.  You probably already have your questions mostly answered, especially if you've taken a look at all the levels, but I thought I'd share our experiences as well.  I am so happy with ELTL.

 

As for using it in a remedial sense, I think it would be very easy to use "behind" (we are) and still have great benefit.  My oldest is very sensitive to things being babyish (or having a grade level written on the front) and she is using a level "behind" and still feeling challenged and respected - YKWIM?  I used FLL previously, and while I think it's a very effective and well-written program, my DD always felt patronized with the script and repetition.  (Yes, even with modifying it for her.)  As and adult, *I* like reading and learning from this program (I did NOT have the benefit of a CM or Classical style education, and I'm assuming most of us did not.)  HTH with making decisions for your adult students.

 

Even though my DD knew some parts of speech (and is generally advance in LA), the sentences chosen for the grammar exercises are from actual literature, so they are plenty challenging.  Initially I had my two oldest working together, but my younger needed to slow down a bit.  Now I've split them up, we're doing something similar to Co_Co Clark, using 2 levels.  I have one DD listening to the literature via librivox (sometimes I have a copy of the book, either that we own, or from the library, for them to follow along) while I do the lesson with the other child.  The lessons are short, and I am so thankful LA aren't taking up our entire day!I 

 

 

 

My K'er daughter is so in love with ELTL that even though I've been doing level 1 with her older brother, she will sit and do it all with me, including the copywork. She loves stories and loves "cuddle on the couch school" (which is what she calls it). So right now my son uses it a level behind and my daughter uses it a level ahead. If it starts to be too hard for both of them at any level, I'll switch to half pace. If it gets too hard for just the younger one, I'll drop her from it and just do copywork and read Nesbit's Grammarland to her for a year.

I appreciate you sharing what you plan to do if you drop your younger.  As it is, my younger has done part of level 1, and part of level 2, and we might need/want to fill in some space for her before level 3.  She probably wouldn't mind re-doing the lessons she's already done...but I had forgotten about Grammarland.  

 

 

ETA:  Oh, I'd wanted to add that while I appreciate classic literature (although I haven't read a lot of the books used throughout ELTL!) I don't really appreciate reading it all.  Some of it is difficult for me to read aloud.  So I gave myself permission to let my DDs listen to the books for ELTL during our "school" day and I save the books I've been wanting to read to them for before bed.  Win-win. ;)  All that to say, I think it's easy to add more literature, get to the history and science read alouds, etc. since there isn't too much to do with ELTL.  Hope that makes sense!

[CherryBlossomMJ]

The first (maybe two) weeks of Wayfarers is available to download as a sample. That is a 5-day set up. M/W/F an ELTL Lesson and phonogram review with T/Th being a RLTL (spelling) list and next (Elson Reader) story. FYI. The Narration in Wayfarers varies as it focuses on different subjects, so not literature narration 3 days/wk.

 

I've just set my daughter up with a Kindle for Christmas, but I'm not sure how to set her up with audiobooks. Surprisingly that's something I cannot put in the FreeTime settings. Blah. I'd be glad to hear how others use a Kindle for audiobooks with their students. Just give it and go? Plug it in auxiliary?

[Hunter]

I use the Kindle app, but on everything but the Kindle tablet.

 

I just install the Kindle app, and download a whispersync compatible ebook (previously purchased), and then click on the audio (previously purchased) and download that.

 

Then I start the audiobook and then click back over to the eBook to read along.

 

I did take a very quick look at the Wayfarers sample yesterday. I mostly was looking at science yesterday. I think I really want to use a 4 year rotation for science, not a 6 year, and that affects what I'm going to do for history. I have both 4 and 6 year ideas for combining Tiner and Mr Q for different level students, but I like the 4 year plan better. I have KJV ladies that would love the SCM 6 year rotation, but I think I'm going to alter it by combining the first 3 years into 1 year. I did look at Wayfarers since it's already a 4 year, but I've already invested some money and time into SCM.

 

I don't know. It probably doesn't matter what I use for History as I'd probably never really follow it that closely anyway.

 

The added Bible would be the make or break feature. The more I've actually used the Bible of SCM, I'm not so sure it makes as much sense I thought it did. The samples of later volumes are too small to really tell. I just printed out the stick figure visuals pages of BSGFAA vol 1 and gave that to a student as a coloring/picture book and read along schedule for now.

 

As with EVERYTHING now, I want to READ more and study less. So the Bible needs to be a READING schedule that actually makes sense in being somewhat evenly divided over the years.

 

I may need to write my own history and Bible. That doesn't have to be much more than a schedule, unlike language arts.

[Marsha]

I have these for sale if anyone is interested...Level1-5 and Wayfarers guide.