I wanted to say "Thank You!!" to Attached Mama for sharing all that detailed info about Memoria Press. I am considering this for next year, and you're descriptions and experience were very helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to type all that out.

Hunter, I am so glad Kathy Jo is letting you take a peek at all the levels. Sometimes no matter what anyone else tells you about a curriculum, you just can't know for sure until you can peruse it for yourself. But I will still give you my assessment of level 4 and you can take it or leave it once you have had a chance to look at it yourself. I find all the lessons in Level 4 to be purposeful and incremental. There is no busy work. Each lesson is written to the student, and my 7th grader reads and does most of the lesson on his own. I think the progym writing exercises are really genius. Once I really thought about it, having them find different ways to say things is an important part of getting comfortable with the writing process. ( My oldest child struggles with not knowing how to say what she is trying to say. I wish I had done progym writing exercises with her when she was younger.) Kathy Jo reminds them each time they do this that it's not about making the sentence better but about making it different. We have really had fun with these exercises. She also includes writing outlines (which we did today), literary writing exercises, condensed, amplified and point of view narrations, etc. Each day the lesson is a little different, but it also has a routine and structure that makes it flow smoothly for me even while managing multiple levels. Couple more thoughts: I like that she has a reminder each day to review the memory work. I really think that those few minutes of reviewing the definitions of the parts of speech, etc, help to solidify the material for my son. The fact that there are only 3 sentences to label and diagram each day is awesome. We do these on the white board together. That's much better than the long list of exercises in R&S. I think that there is a gentle rigor about ELTL that comes because of the drip, drip, drip someone mentioned above. It's very thorough in that it covers all the topics you would expect a grammar program to cover, but it doesn't try to rush the child through or weigh him down with too many follow up assignments. The best part is that we really love the literature choices. My son told me today that he didn't need to read his literature chapter because he read it before he went to bed last night, because it's just a good book. My children are reading and enjoying good classic literature that we weren't getting to before. :thumbup: I hope that helps, Hunter. I am sure once you look through the levels, you will know for sure one way or the other. Let us know what you decide. RuthAnn

Hunter, I am currently using ELTL levels 1, 2, and 4. I am also using RLTL, but as others have said, the two don't need to be done together. Just for background's sake, I have used LLATL, R&S, English for the Thoughtful Child, Easy Grammar, Primary Language Lessons and maybe one or two others. :) I love language arts, but I have some children who struggle in this area and finding a good fit for them has not always been easy. Currently, I have a 7th grade son using Level 4 of ELTL and it is a PERFECT fit. He is understanding and retaining the grammar - first time that has happened for him. He is enjoying the literature selections. He struggles a little with the writing assignments, but that would be the case no matter what we use. (I haven't had him formally tested, but I suspect he struggles with some kind of LD). It has been a very positive experience for him overall. I have my 4th grade son using Level 2. He had already done most of R&S Grade 2 with very little to no retention. Once I switched him from R&S to ELTL in the spring of last year, he went from just putting up with Language Arts to actually enjoying it. One of THE BEST parts of ELTL for this child is the free audio books on librivox. I can get most of the actual books from the library, but this child still struggles with reading unfamiliar words, and I knew that he would have a hard time reading some of the literature selections for ELTL 2 on his own. So, I have had him listen to his literature chapter on librivox while following along in his library book. I really think this is improving his reading ability and comprehension. For him, the grammar lessons are quick and easy at this point, but I think the literature and copywork are the important part for him right now. I know that he will see all the grammar concepts again in the coming years, so we are just working for exposure to these abstract concepts while cementing the primary skills like word attack and reading comprehension. Lastly, I actually have my first grader using Level 1. We enjoy reading the literature selections together and the grammar is just enough, but not too much. The copywork is just the right amount for her at this point. She doesn't struggle with school like her brothers, so I can see her using and enjoying ELTL on grade level all the way through. As far as using ELTL alongside SCM: I don't see why not. I am currently using MFW and it is working just fine. I really do like ELTL. It has enough structure and review to keep this grammar loving mamma happy, but it does it in a gentle, easy to use, all in one book kind of way. I would like it if she had developed the poetry area a little more to include info on the poet (She kinds of sticks with the same one for awhile.) and maybe some discussion of poetic vocabulary (alliteration, personification, etc), but it really wouldn't be that hard for me to include some of that on my own. I just need to plan ahead and do a little research. Maybe something I can work on over the summer to incorporate for next year. Hope this helps a little as you ponder your future direction. If you have any specific questions about the levels I am using, I will do my best to answer them. RuthAnn One who lurks much and posts little:)

jer2911mom, Thanks for the encouragement, and if I do get a good schedule figured out, I will be sure to share. :) Hope you find what you are looking for. RuthAnn

kand, Okay, so you are using MM Blue series to introduce concepts and then following up with CLE? Interesting. Do you think this is helping you get through the grade levels faster? My one son is in third grade and just finished CLE's 2nd grade math. My older son is in 6th grade and is in CLE LU 503. I don't want to slow them down, but I do want to make sure they are "getting it". KWIM? Trying to think through the best way to tackle this. Thanks for your help and input. RuthAnn

Very interesting thread. I am dealing with the same issue - using CLE and finding that the conceptual understanding is not strong enough. My ds just finished CLE LU 210 and we have hit a wall on his understanding of multiplication. It was explained in CLE (better and more conceptually than I remember being taught it), but my son just didn't get it. I have tried explaining it to him myself, but, especially the concept of multiplying zero, has just been more than he can grasp. He tries so hard, and it breaks my heart to see those big tears fall and hear his little voice squeak out, "It's just too hard, Mom. I don't understand it." :sad: Well, I have used MM in the past, but mostly as a supplement. This week I bought and downloaded the multiplication 1 workbook and started that with him today. NOW, he is starting to get it. Hallelujah! My question is this: Could I use the topical series of MM instead of the graded series to supplement conceptual teaching while using CLE? Would that be easier to plug in or not? My 2 sons that are using CLE do very well with the spiral, incremental style of CLE, but I do see where there is room for improvement in the presentation of conceptual material. Thanks so much for this conversation. RuthAnn

Hello Again, You all were so helpful in helping me figure out science, that I thought I would pick your brains about independent history suggestions. I have an up and coming 6th grader that likes to work independently. I like the looks of Notgrass's America the Beautiful, but would like to wait until his younger brother can do it with him. So, for right now I am looking at trying to cover Ancients in 6th and Medieval in 7th and then doing America the Beautiful in 8th. I would like this to be Christian, use living books or an enjoyable text (like Notgrass), and have notebooking or some kind of response element to the reading. I like the looks of Elemental Science for him. Is there something like that, but for history? Any suggestions? TIA, RuthAnn

Thanks so much for everyone's input. I think I will give Elemental Science a go. My current plan: 6th grader - ES Logic Bio 3rd grader - ES Grammar Bio K'er - Intro to Science ( this looks soooo precious) I am excited to find a science program that will fit our family's needs. Thanks again, RuthAnn

This discussion has been very helpful for me and has confirmed what I already was pretty sure of. I am considering using ES next year with my upcoming 6th, 3rd and K'er. I know it is suggested that you may combine younger children into the older's program, but my 3rd grader is not a good one for "tagging" along. He tends to zone out when things aren't on his level. His little K'er sister, however, will probably do great tagging along as she gets older, and I may be able to combine them in the future. My current plan is to do Logic Stage Bio with the 6th grader, Grammar Stage Bio with the 3rd grader and Intro to Science with the K'er. I will either use the 2 day schedule and stagger the older 2, but I may use the 5 day for the 6th grader if it is independent enough. We'll see. :001_smile: RuthAnn

Elizabeth Rose, Thanks for the input on Elemental Science. As much as I would like to combine everybody, I have found that to not be the best route for us. It always seems someone is missing out. Either the older ones are not challenged enough or the younger ones are zoning out because it's over their heads. I would, however, like to have "groups" of children studying together. Your suggestion to do the same topic but at different levels is a good one. Will have to ponder that some more. The preschool series is separate from the classic series. They have an Exploring one and an Intro to Science one. I I don't mind if the content seems light at the grammar stage. The important thing to me is that science gets done, my kids enjoy it, and they are hearing and learning scientific methods, ideas, vocabulary, etc. Thanks so much for taking the time to answer. RuthAnn

Thank you for the suggestions. I think if I were just starting out and had the time to study and prepare, BSFU and/or Dr Dave's might be a good option for me. But I really like the looks of Elemental Science. I like that it is affordable. :hurray: I like that it tells me what to say to get them thinking. I like that it has printed science workbooks/coloring pages to go with it. I like that there are a list of suggested library books to add to the study. I like that the preschool one, at least, has nature study included. One question - Which program do I start with? My 6th and 3rd graders are boys who enjoy hands on immensely. I really think the 3rd grader would enjoy one of the preschool programs with his K5 sister. Anyway, any suggestions? Thanks so much for your help in thinking this through. Science has been the bane of my existence lately. :glare: RuthAnn

Is there such a thing? I am NOT a good science teacher, and I would like to be. My older 2 children have struggled through Apologia's Gen Sci and Phys Sci the last 2 years, and I think a good part of that is because I didn't adequately prepare them. I have a K'er, a third grader and a sixth grader coming up behind them. I would like to do better. Any suggestions? By the way - I am YE Creationist, but I am open to more neutral curriculums like Noeo and Nancy Larson. Thanks, RuthAnn

OP and Tuzor, I have recently been looking at heritage history. They may have what your are looking for. www.heritage-history.com HTH, RuthAnn

I haven't actually started to use this, but I wanted to share my experience so far. Maybe it will be helpful. My ds 10 just did his Woodcock Johnson testing and the educational consultant who did his testing uses and recommends Stevenson Reading Skills materials. She felt that their materials would be helpful for him. I had a little trouble navigating their website so I asked my educational consultant for help. She told me that the best thing to do was call them as they are best able to help place your child and help you order the correct materials. I called Stevenson Learning and spoke to Bill Stevenson. He took time to learn about my son's needs as well as his strengths. He helped me choose the best materials to purchase for my son. He also encouraged me to check back in with him or one of their other consultants on a regular basis (every 3 weeks or so) so they can help me get the most out of their materials. He said this was not necessary because their materials aren't difficult to figure out, but his consultants can help me as his teacher use the materials in the best way to meet his particular needs. He emphasized that this was free and that they really do want their customers to take advantage of this help. I was very pleased with their customer service and I look forward to begin using these materials with my son. Hope this helps, RuthAnn

Crystal & Julie, Thanks for the understanding, insight & encouragement. It helps to hear from others who've gone before. I hesitated to put this question out there, because I was afraid I would get a mixed response which in some ways makes deciding even harder. I appreciate everyone' s honest input, but as with almost every curriculum out there you have some who just love it and can't see using anything else. And then you have others who aren't quite so enthusiastic in their reviews. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate everyone taking time to respond, but the truth is I won't know if this works for me and my DD, as is, until we use it ourselves I think I have a better picture of how MFW covers writing in high school, so I'm glad I asked. But I just need to pray and trust that whichever way God directs will be enough. RuthAnn

I wish I could be more relaxed about this and just trust that it will be enough. I am praying that God will guide me clearly. Thanks, RuthAnn

Julie, I understand that MFW has to be concise, but it does make it hard when there is so much out there to compare it to. When you don't really know what you're getting, it's hard to compare. And for me, I want to choose a high school curriculum that we can stick with for the next 4 years. I want to know what I'm in for before I jump in. KWIM? Thanks for your input, RuthAnn

Crystal, Without ever really seeing MFW high school or using it, it's hard for me to "see" the skills covered with the explanations that they provide on the website. After looking at EIW's scope and sequence with: Lesson 1 - cover this, Lesson 2 - cover this, it's easy for me to clearly see what they will cover over the course of the year. But, when I look at MFW's description of how they teach writing, it's more of summary of we'll cover this, that, and the other plus some other stuff. Oh, and I totally get the: "we teach you how to do it in 9th and 10th and now you just do it." I did think that maybe 4 years of Essentials in Writing might be overkill. Like I said, I do want to make sure they get the writing instruction in the first place so they can write effectively throughout high school and beyond. Melissa in CA, Your list of writing assignments makes me feel better. That is what I am looking for. I want to know exactly what kind of assignments will be covered. Thank you for writing that out for me. Thanks for you input, ladies. I really appreciate it. RuthAnn

Crystal, I guess I shouldn't use the abbreviation for EIW, yet since it is new (and it is so close to IEW). EIW stands for Essentials in Writing. The high school programs won't be out until the end of August, but he has the scope and sequence info up on the essentials in writing website. I know that there must be more than meets the eye when it comes to writing instruction in MFW it's just hard to make an educated decision when they don't really lay it out for you to see. I got most of my information about what grammar and composition is covered in MFW high school from the FAQ section. It would be nice if they would clearly show all the writing that is covered so that parents can know exactly what will be taught each year. Thanks, RuthAnn

Hello, I have been comparing the scope and sequence of MFW high school grammar and composition to the new EIW high school writing and it looks to me like MFW does not cover as much as thoroughly as EIW. EIW covers 5 different types of essays and a research paper each year of high school while MFW formally covers the argumentative essay in 9th grade, the research paper in 10th grade and 11th and 12th grade don't really show any formal essay/writing instruction. I know that MFW has more writing than just the 5 argumentative essays in 9th and the research paper in 10th, but after looking at how much EIW covers each year of high school it makes me wonder if MFW has enough writing instruction. I did not receive enough writing instruction in high school, and I want to make sure that my children are as well prepared to express themselves in writing as possible. Anyone looked at EIW high school scope/sequence or have a better idea than I do what writing instruction should look like over the course of the high school years? Thanks, RuthAnn

Melissa, Thank you for responding. I agree with you that MFW is not pricey. I find their packages to be very affordable for what you get. It was more the fact that I was going to have curriculum lent to me which would make it cheaper (something I have to consider with 5 children). But, since so much of MFW is reusable, it really is a good deal since I will be able to pass it down to the younger ones. I really was asking to see if others felt that I could duplicate what MFW offers by using an eclectic set of materials and just organizing them myself. It seems that is what MFW does, but it's hard to see all that's there from the sample. I am really leaning toward using MFW AHL just for the peace of mind that it will all be covered and I can hand my dd the manual, books, etc. and she can be independent. Honestly, I wish MFW's younger years were set up just like this (but that's another story :001_smile:). Thanks, again, for all those who responded. I appreciate your taking the time to share. RuthAnn

Thanks, ladies! Those are some good points. I appreciate the food for thought. RuthAnn

Hello, I have been trying to decide whether I should spend the $ to buy MFW for my dd for next year or if I should pull the resources together myself. I am able to do a lot of planning/scheduling on my own, but I am a little more hesitant about doing it with high school. Also, I will have 4 other children in grades 8, 5, 2 and K next year, so that is a consideration. Also, a friend of mine is going to let me borrow her Biblioplan Family Guide and Companion for next year, reducing the cost of History and Literature for me. These are the 2 options am I considering: Either using MFW for Bible, History and Literature/Writing or using Starr Meade's book, The Most Important Thing You'll Ever Study for Bible, Biblioplan for History, Literature and Geography, and Essentials in Writing or Epi Kardia's Essay course. Does MFW AHL really bring things together so well that it is not worth it for me to go to all the work of doing my own thing? When I look at the samples it looks like mostly just a grid with assignments plus a few notes. I do that now on my own. Sell me on why MFW AHL is better than me pulling together the resources myself. Pretty please??:001_smile: Thanks, RuthAnn

MOH = Mystery of History RuthAnn

Bumping this up for Michelle My Bell. :001_smile: