Prealgebra transition: need BTDT for young student

[MamaSprout]

What have you done with your young accelerated students in math?

 

Dd9 is on the last couple pages of Singapore 5b. She flew through other levels, bogged down for a couple weeks in 5b, we took a break and started back up last week. She's flying through again. She'll be done this week, easily. We've only used the textbook twice for 5b. She seems to know this stuff intuitively- she's the kind of kid who added up grocery prices as a preschooler in her head and could do simple math with negative numbers before she could read. We unschooled math until she was 7, and she's done Singapore 3b-5b in the last 18 months, along with some Alcumus, Dolciani PreA New Edition for set theory, Zaccaro and Lechner stuff.

 

I originally thought we'd do DM7, but in my working ahead, the book seems unnecessarily complicated as a next step. I see how "6th grade math" is probably used just to get kids doing elementary math with more complicated numbers. She likes the layout (she's a bit artistic, so visual matters to her.), but it "feels" wrong for her as a next step. She's not really asynchronous, although writing out 60 problems from any curriculum would be too much for one day. She's sort of running 2-3 years above grade level across the board, maybe a smidge lower on output.

 

Other stuff I own:

Russian Math 6

Dolciani Prealgebra- Accelerated Course (also own the New Edition- but too easy for this year)

Math Mammoth 1-6 (would consider buying 7, but she doesn't really like the layout.- I love to tutor from MM, but have never done it start to finish)

Auffman PreAlgebra (a lot like Lial's)

 

Also own

Foerester Algebra

 

Considering starting her on the Google Docs sample of Jacobs Algebra to see if that would fly, but 9 seems too young to start algebra.

 

She's not interested in AoPS at the moment.

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

[Kathy in Richmond]

That's about where my dd was at nine. AoPS wasn't published yet. We continued through Singapore 6 + Topical Problem Sums 6 (their old challenging word problem series), then NEM 1 and 2, & Jacobs Algebra and Geometry. I had her do ALL the challengers in NEM and Jacobs, and sometimes I pulled the harder word problems out of Dolciani algebra, too.

 

We supplemented with problem solving from AMC 8 and MathCounts materials, and later from AoPS traditional problem solving vol 1.

 

This took her to about age 12, when I transitioned her over to AoPS materials and classes.

[madteaparty]

I feel like an impostor posting on this board, but responding only bc DS is 10 and also in the very final pages of 5B. We're concurrently doing 70 Word Problems , 5th level (ostensibly 6th grade) and Process Skills in Problem solving (level 5). I plan to take 2 weeks to work on ratio (we had a hard time with the more complicated ratio word problems in the above resources), and then we start Tabletclass Prealgebra when back from vacation on Sept 10. I have no idea how that will go or the time commitment.  I plan to do CWP 5 concurrently. We have used equations forever to solve SM word problems as  we dislike the bars. I plan to really take our time in pre-A with the tabletclass, AOPS pre-A as supplement, and videos and what have you.

[Dmmetler]

We used LOF at age 7/8 along with Key to Algebra between SM 5B and AOPS PA. She really needed a little more time and to get used to working from a book in a notebook before moving on to AOPS, and it ended up being a good fit. She did Fractions, Decimals/Percents, and both PA books (physics wasn't out yet, so we did it last year).

 

 

[Gil]

Why are you skipping Singapore PM6?

[MamaSprout]

Why are you skipping Singapore PM6?

 

We've done 3b-5b PM Standards, and I guess 6a/b Standards is really written for schools. She's ready to move on from bar models. The multiple book format is really not working for us, either.

[MamaSprout]

That's about where my dd was at nine. AoPS wasn't published yet. We continued through Singapore 6 + Topical Problem Sums 6 (their old challenging word problem series), then NEM 1 and 2, & Jacobs Algebra and Geometry. I had her do ALL the challengers in NEM and Jacobs, and sometimes I pulled the harder word problems out of Dolciani algebra, too.

 

We supplemented with problem solving from AMC 8 and MathCounts materials, and later from AoPS traditional problem solving vol 1.

 

This took her to about age 12, when I transitioned her over to AoPS materials and classes.

 

This is very helpful.

[Gil]

We've done 3b-5b PM Standards, and I guess 6a/b Standards is really written for schools. She's ready to move on from bar models. The multiple book format is really not working for us, either.

 

I don't know what the bolded part means. Do you mean that its just to "fill in the time" of 6th grade but doesn't really do anything?

I would assume that PM6 moves into stronger problem solving, but I don't know. I've never used the program myself.

 

What about Keys to Algebra? We used it and it was a fantastic gradual, clear and thorough introduction to much of the Algebra 1 material, which the boys have been covering this summer along side some other stuff.

[Dmmetler]

We skipped it because DD was dying to get to "real algebra", and placement tests showed she was ready for it content-wise. I wanted to make sure she was solid on PA, and I knew I wanted to get to AOPS. Math isn't her biggest thing, though-she sees math more as fun puzzles and a means to an end, not as an end to itself, so LOF PA 1 being biology focused was perfect.

[MamaSprout]

I don't know what the bolded part means. Do you mean that its just to "fill in the time" of 6th grade but doesn't really do anything?

I would assume that PM6 moves into stronger problem solving, but I don't know. I've never used the program myself.

 

What about Keys to Algebra? We used it and it was a fantastic gradual, clear and thorough introduction to much of the Algebra 1 material, which the boys have been covering this summer along side some other stuff.

 

Correct. It does not cover any new material, but does extend some of it. In my mind it's too expensive for what we'd get out of it- and while dd rolls along pretty well, I don't think either of us could muster much excitement for it as anything more than maybe a supplement.

 

I do have Key to Algebra and CLE's similar series for my tutoring students. I don't think they'd be a good fit at the moment, although I do like both.

[kiana]

Considering starting her on the Google Docs sample of Jacobs Algebra to see if that would fly, but 9 seems too young to start algebra.

 

If she's ready for the abstraction and has mastered arithmetic, no reason why not -- as long as you're ready to 1) Take however long it takes and 2) Drop back to plan B if it does not work. In PS there are more issues because someone who is ready for algebra in 4th grade may very well not be ready for geometry or algebra 2 in 5th, yet repeating the course is not a good option. In homeschooling you can play it by ear and figure these options out.

 

FTR, my math progression looked as follows:

 

5) PS

6) PS, then de-schooling, a little hands on equations for fun

7) developmental college arithmetic book similar to lial's bcm done in a diagnostic-prescriptive manner

8) pre-algebra with a class (too easy, as you said about the modern dolciani. I think we used glencoe but it might have been ucsmp)

9) algebra with a reasonably rigorous out-of-print college beginning + intermediate algebra textbook.

 

AOPS would have been absolutely perfect for the way I learn but it was nowhere near out yet.

[MamaSprout]

That's about where my dd was at nine. AoPS wasn't published yet. We continued through Singapore 6 + Topical Problem Sums 6 (their old challenging word problem series), then NEM 1 and 2, & Jacobs Algebra and Geometry. I had her do ALL the challengers in NEM and Jacobs, and sometimes I pulled the harder word problems out of Dolciani algebra, too.

 

We supplemented with problem solving from AMC 8 and MathCounts materials, and later from AoPS traditional problem solving vol 1.

 

This took her to about age 12, when I transitioned her over to AoPS materials and classes.

 

Which would you recommend beginning first after the Singapore 6 books- the NEM or Jacob's books?

 

Thanks!

[Kathy in Richmond]

Which would you recommend beginning first after the Singapore 6 books- the NEM or Jacob's books?

 

Thanks!

 

I let dd choose, so we started in NEM 1. I think that you could go either way next, though. Personally, I love Jacobs for young kids.

 

[Momof3littles]

I really don't know how advisable this is but I'll tell you what we did:

 

In his 4th grade yr:

Did Singapore 5a and 5b

CWP for Singapore 5

While doing the above, we worked through LoF Fractions, Decimals and Percents then LoF Prealgebra with Biology and the Physics books.  We slowed down, but explored a lot of different things last year.

 

I don't love Fred, but DS1 likes it, and can self teach with just some help here and there.  He does it with reasonable cheerfulness, which I don't get with a lot of other work.

 

We dabbled in a bit of Jacob's Algebra and AoPS pre algebra last year.  He didn't seem ready to struggle with AoPS.  He likes to be right :P  We are trying AoPS again now (rising 5th grader) and it is going better so far.  He has been exposed to a lot of the arithmetic, but AoPS is calling on him to dig deeper about the problems.  We'll see how it goes.

 

I don't know that the above is advisable, but that's what we've done :)

[Momof3littles]

double post, sorry.  Got a board error after the first.

[lewelma]

My younger is doing MEP secondary, available free online. It has some really nice investigations, and two decently hard problems per section of each chapter (each taking my son about 15 to 20 minutes to do). There are a lot of new topics compared to Singapore Math, like Mathematical Diagrams, Statistics, Trig, etc, which are mixed in with review of fractions, factors, decimals etc.  It is a mastery program that rotates topics every 2 weeks, so ideal for this boy.

 

Biggest downside is that it is written for schools so the easy, medium, and difficult material is all intermixed and you have to use the teacher's schedules to mark out where the hard problems are.  It takes me about 30 minutes every 2 weeks to print and mark out the work to make it open and go on the day.

 

I should add that this is of prealgebra level, but not so algebra focused as Singapore Math 7A.  My son was also bored with SM6, so we decided to move on, but both SM7A and AoPS preA were too difficult.  MEP has been great intermediary.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

[MamaSprout]

She doesn't like Fred enough for me to buy them, although we have borrowed them from the library.

 

She loves math, so I don't need to sweeten it up (Murderous Maths went over very well, though). She does not love it when her mother flounders around looking for math books for her.

 

She's willing to "test through" MM6 if paired with the logic and math contest books we already own. Only because "Kathy who knows about MIT had her kids do sixth grade math". (Sorry Kathy, to use you as a math deity of sorts). That will probably hold us until January.

 

After that, maybe try DM 7 and Jacobs.

 

I think she'd like math contests, but I don't think there is anything near us. Not sure about math camps, either. That all seems like a big ol' mountain to climb.

[EndOfOrdinary]

My son began working with the ideas and concepts of early algebra around seven or eight, but we used Khan and a fair,y standard Holt text for practice and exposure. I did this because is felt AoPS was too difficult. I thought that if I eased him in, then he would do better with the struggle of AoPS. Totally backfired! He thought he was great at pre-a and even some algebra stuff because he was rocking the easier programs. There were lots of meltdowns and stigma about math initially. What I thought would give him confidence, did the exact opposite.

 

I cannot speak for your child. However, I have very much learned to begin as I wish to end. We now do the hard programs from the start, only take the pace way down and suppliment with "fun stuff" along the way.

[MEmama]

Have you looked at Jousting Armadillos?

 

I did make DS get through MM6 in 5th but in retrospect, he would have been better served doing something like JA instead (I didn't know about it in time, unfortunately). MM6 sounds like how you are describing SM6-- basically more of the same, a bit more complex. It didn't challenge my math- intuitive kid at any rate; he found it pretty boring. This year for 6th he's more than ready for algebra--he's another who considers it "real" math. :)

 

Zaccaro is another one I often see mentioned for bridging some time if you don't want to make the jump to algebra just yet. .

[MamaSprout]

Have you looked at Jousting Armadillos?

 

I did make DS get through MM6 in 5th but in retrospect, he would have been better served doing something like JA instead (I didn't know about it in time, unfortunately). MM6 sounds like how you are describing SM6-- basically more of the same, a bit more complex. It didn't challenge my math- intuitive kid at any rate; he found it pretty boring. This year for 6th he's more than ready for algebra--he's another who considers it "real" math. :)

 

Zaccaro is another one I often see mentioned for bridging some time if you don't want to make the jump to algebra just yet. .

 

I eliminated JA because it's too narrow a scope for the cost. Looking at Jacob's Algebra, I think she could jump directly into it.

 

We liked Zaccaro's elementary book. I had originally thought of putting together Zaccaro's Real World Algebra, Patty Paper Geometry and AoPS Number Theory book for PreA.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the MM6. I'll use it sparingly. Since I already have it, I won't be out anything but the pages I print, unless we work off the iPad. I'm concerned if I throw her right into DM7, the complexity of the numbers will obscure the concepts and frustrate her. I know she'll love the word problems.

 

 

[MamaSprout]

My son began working with the ideas and concepts of early algebra around seven or eight, but we used Khan and a fair,y standard Holt text for practice and exposure. I did this because is felt AoPS was too difficult. I thought that if I eased him in, then he would do better with the struggle of AoPS. Totally backfired! He thought he was great at pre-a and even some algebra stuff because he was rocking the easier programs. There were lots of meltdowns and stigma about math initially. What I thought would give him confidence, did the exact opposite.

 

I cannot speak for your child. However, I have very much learned to begin as I wish to end. We now do the hard programs from the start, only take the pace way down and supplement with "fun stuff" along the way.

 

AoPS is a real option for this kid, but we've decided against the PreAlgebra book. I don't like it as a transition from elementary math. She very well may end up in AoPS later, though.

 

She spent last year across the table from a tutoring student who was doing "PreAlgebra", while she was doing her own work (I tutored extensively- almost a small school). She's been exposed to much of it. I see what you mean. Especially if she were basing her idea of what to expect on what this student had done, some of which she helped him with.

[8filltheheart]

I used MUS's alg and geo. The workbooks are mostly white space and simple in presentation. The instruction is not in the student book. That makes it little kid friendly.

 

MUS served as a nice bridge to alg. You could follow with any alg program of your choosing.

[MamaSprout]

I had her work through a few pages of a few of the options this morning.

 

Something to my surprise, she choose the Dolciani Prealgebra, An Accelerated Course.

 

This thread has been very helpful- I do think we'll probably do a DM/ Jacob's combo after Dolciani PreAlgebra. I have an old Dolciani Algebra, but I doubt she'd be interested. I don't think I'll sell it quite yet, though. :0)

 

Thanks!

[MEmama]

I eliminated JA because it's too narrow a scope for the cost. Looking at Jacob's Algebra, I think she could jump directly into it.

 

We liked Zaccaro's elementary book. I had originally thought of putting together Zaccaro's Real World Algebra, Patty Paper Geometry and AoPS Number Theory book for PreA.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the MM6. I'll use it sparingly. Since I already have it, I won't be out anything but the pages I print, unless we work off the iPad. I'm concerned if I throw her right into DM7, the complexity of the numbers will obscure the concepts and frustrate her. I know she'll love the word problems.

FWIW, we just started Jacobs and DS loves it. I think it will be a great fit. I have no doubt he could have jumped in last year at this time without MM6.

[Space station]

I feel like an impostor posting on this board, but responding only bc DS is 10 and also in the very final pages of 5B. We're concurrently doing 70 Word Problems , 5th level (ostensibly 6th grade) and Process Skills in Problem solving (level 5). I plan to take 2 weeks to work on ratio (we had a hard time with the more complicated ratio word problems in the above resources), and then we start Tabletclass Prealgebra when back from vacation on Sept 10. I have no idea how that will go or the time commitment. I plan to do CWP 5 concurrently. We have used equations forever to solve SM word problems as we dislike the bars. I plan to really take our time in pre-A with the tabletclass, AOPS pre-A as supplement, and videos and what have you.

I'm glad you posted, and don't feel like an impostor. Post wherever you feel you can get the best advice or wherever you feel you have something to offer. I also feel that way sometimes, but that is what I tell myself.

[MamaSprout]

I'm glad you posted, and don't feel like an impostor. Post wherever you feel you can get the best advice or wherever you feel you have something to offer. I also feel that way sometimes, but that is what I tell myself.

 

I agree. It feels weird with the disappearing like buttons.

[boscopup]

I think Dolciani PA followed by Jacobs is a good choice.

 

We went from 5B to AoPS PA last year at just turned 9. I've had to fill in with Dolciani sometimes, as he still needs drill more than AoPS provides. We're spending a year and a half on AoPS PA, then I'll do Jacobs Algebra (which I own) before doing AoPS Intro to Algebra. He should start Jacobs about halfway through 5th grade (at age 10.5), but since we'll be doing two algebra courses, I'm not concerned about his age. He'll come out the other side not that far ahead of his age mates.

 

I don't know that we'll continue using AoPS long term. Right now, I use it to give him challenge and slow him down. As I said above though, he needs more drill than AoPS provides, so the later books may not be a good fit for him when we don't have time to do multiple books for a course. Right now, we have all the time in the world, so I'm cool with what we're doing. Some chapters can be done with AoPS alone (usually topics he's fairly familiar with and ready to go deeper), and some he needs Dolciani to drill and kill the basics before going deeper. Usually those are topics that Singapore didn't do much with. I think many public school kids using AoPS are getting a regular course at school followed by AoPS version of the course online, and that's what seems to work for my son (except we're not using the online option right now).

 

Anyway, you shouldn't have any issues going from Singapore 5B to Dolciani PA. The topics that Singapore doesn't hit very hard (negative numbers and exponents) Dolciani drills very well, starting from the basics. :)

[MamaSprout]

I mapped out a schedule for Dolciani PreA. I'm thinking of meshing it with the SMSG free texts, using the Dolciani as a spine. I think the two will be complementary, and meets my "2 programs for math" limit.

[madteaparty]

I think Dolciani PA followed by Jacobs is a good choice.

 

We went from 5B to AoPS PA last year at just turned 9. I've had to fill in with Dolciani sometimes, as he still needs drill more than AoPS provides. We're spending a year and a half on AoPS PA, then I'll do Jacobs Algebra (which I own) before doing AoPS Intro to Algebra. He should start Jacobs about halfway through 5th grade (at age 10.5), but since we'll be doing two algebra courses, I'm not concerned about his age. He'll come out the other side not that far ahead of his age mates.

 

I don't know that we'll continue using AoPS long term. Right now, I use it to give him challenge and slow him down. As I said above though, he needs more drill than AoPS provides, so the later books may not be a good fit for him when we don't have time to do multiple books for a course. Right now, we have all the time in the world, so I'm cool with what we're doing. Some chapters can be done with AoPS alone (usually topics he's fairly familiar with and ready to go deeper), and some he needs Dolciani to drill and kill the basics before going deeper. Usually those are topics that Singapore didn't do much with. I think many public school kids using AoPS are getting a regular course at school followed by AoPS version of the course online, and that's what seems to work for my son (except we're not using the online option right now).

 

Anyway, you shouldn't have any issues going from Singapore 5B to Dolciani PA. The topics that Singapore doesn't hit very hard (negative numbers and exponents) Dolciani drills very well, starting from the basics. :)

We are also taking this approach of supplementing AoPS or having AoPS be the supplement but using Tabletclass instead. Franky I cannot keep track of which Dolciani is the correct one to own ;) and I need answer explanations in case we get stuck.

 

[MamaSprout]

We are also taking this approach of supplementing AoPS or having AoPS be the supplement but using Tabletclass instead. Franky I cannot keep track of which Dolciani is the correct one to own ;) and I need answer explanations in case we get stuck.

I own two different Dolciani PreA's, and about convulsed when "An Accelerated Approach" arrived because it had been my PreA. I almost burned it, actually. We've sort of landed on it because it's what she needs, and really, I've run out of other options (video based is not her thing). It's our Goldilocks book I guess. We picked up a copy of Real World Algebra at Half Price books today (which she almost hugged), so we'll hold off on the SMSG for the time being, although she still wants to do the "cannibals" chapter...

[boscopup]

I'm using the Accelerated Course version. I haven't felt a need for solutions or anything. It's just Prealgebra, and it's not AoPS level problems. ;)