All over the board with Phonics... Help Me Do Something

[arliemaria]

My son is five and beginning official kindergarten in September.  I need to make a decision on reading instruction.  I am just all over the board and cannot narrow anything down.  Pretty scatter brained on this subject even though or perhaps in spite of my belief that this is the utmost importance for early education foundation.

 

We have a very language-rich environment.  My husband and I have read to and in front of our children forever.  We do not have cable or satellite in our homes.  Reading and discussion is constant.  We have read many many picture books, wordless books, magazines, chapter books (Homer Price, The Littles, Three Tales of My Father's Dragon, Chronicles of Narnia, etc.).

I watched Denise Edie's LOE video a few years ago and loved it.  It made so much sense to me.  I had thought of using her program for a long while.  We have the Doodling Dragons app on the kindle.  

 

We have the Leap Frog Letter Factory and my son has watched and played the game many times.  We have the fridge phonics.

 

We have a beautiful wooden TAG toys ABC puzzle.  We have Montessori sandpaper letters.

My son has played different phonics games on PBSKids and Between the Lions.  He has been playing Teach Your Monster to Read recently.

I own the OPGtTR.  I have an old Bobbs Merrill Primer.  I have The American Speller by Crowell.  I have ETC Primers B and C.  Somehow I don't have A.  I have Ruth Beechick's The Three R's.

Then my husband bought me the Simply Charlotte Mason Learning and Living: Homeschooling the Charlotte Mason Way DVD Set.  In this video she describes a reading lesson and says not to use a phonics intensive program for reading instruction because this leads to analysis paralysis.  This scares me.
 

Now I am lost.  I don't know what I should use.  I have gone all over the place with what I need, perhaps out of fear.  I first thought I would buy 100 EZ Lessons because my dear friends used this to great results with their daughter this past year.  Then I thought I wanted to buy Spell to Read and Write.  Then I found AphaPhonics.  I've known about Spalding.  Then I found TATRAS Great Saltmine and Hifwip.  

 

I am just nervous and can't make a decision on something and just follow through.  Please set me straight!

[ByGrace3]

I cannot fathom wanting to teach a child to read without intensive phonics. Teaching via phonics is critical. Other than that, just pick a program. If you like LOE teach that...if you like OPGTR teach that. Find something you like and use it. Consistency in whatever you use is more important than the right program anyway. While some things don't work for some kids, you probably won't know that until you try anyway. Just jump. ;)

[Raining Pineapples]

Wow! With a language rich environment, do you need a reading program? My son learned to read from us reading to him and him reading to us. We did not use a curriculum. I did buy AAR for my daughter (2nd child) and I just don't understand the need for them. Maybe someone will set me straight? We used AAS for phonics and spelling and love them, even though we rarely use the tiles anymore. It is the only curriculum I will not trade in for something shiny and new. We started with level 1 at 5 yrs and are starting level 3 this year. 

 

I understand where you are at. I'm all over the place with math and own 6 different 3rd grade sets.

 

I would imagine they all get you where you need to go. Remember, what works for one family may not work for you. Don't base your choice off of fear! 

 

-

[Raining Pineapples]

I cannot fathom wanting to teach a child to read without intensive phonics. Teaching via phonics is critical. Other than that, just pick a program. If you like LOE teach that...if you like OPGTR teach that. Find something you like and use it. Consistency in whatever you use is more important than the right program anyway. While some things don't work for some kids, you probably won't know that until you try anyway. Just jump. ;)

Agree- consistency! 

 

 

My son was reading well before we began any phonics instructions. We did not think to teach them until we decided to homeschool.  We just read to him (almost daily since birth) and helped him sound out words he did not know (light phonics maybe?). But intensive phonics never even crossed our mind. In fact, I think he learned phonics by learning to read. 

[OneStepAtATime]

 

Then my husband bought me the Simply Charlotte Mason Learning and Living: Homeschooling the Charlotte Mason Way DVD Set.  In this video she describes a reading lesson and says not to use a phonics intensive program for reading instruction because this leads to analysis paralysis.  This scares me.

 

Now I am lost.  I don't know what I should use.  I have gone all over the place with what I need, perhaps out of fear.  I first thought I would buy 100 EZ Lessons because my dear friends used this to great results with their daughter this past year.  Then I thought I wanted to buy Spell to Read and Write.  Then I found AphaPhonics.  I've known about Spalding.  Then I found TATRAS Great Saltmine and Hifwip.  

 

I am just nervous and can't make a decision on something and just follow through.  Please set me straight!

This really depends on the child.  Some kids will pick up reading and even spelling and writing with little or no formal instruction, including phonics training (I was one of those) but many kids do need explicit phonics instruction.  Without it they may find reading/spelling/writing very challenging.  In fact, it can be crippling without it.  

 

Honestly, now that I am teaching my own kids using a phonics program I REALLY REALLY wish someone had taught reading/spelling to me this way.  Oh my goodness, spelling was never a huge issue but I spent gosh knows how much time studying for spelling tests.  My kids, who are dyslexic by the way, can spell so much better than I could because with rare exception they understand WHY a word is spelled the way it is.  If they have been exposed to the rules and have internalized them then they hardly study at all for spelling tests.  And reading turned around SIGNIFICANTLY  with phonics instruction.  And spelling in their writing improved 10 fold when we started using a phonics based program.  Does that mean they spell everything perfectly?  Do they decode all words correctly when reading?  No, but we haven't finished the program.

[Ellie]

Here's the secret: pick one and stick with it. Really. All the products/methods you mentioned are good. Just pick one.

 

You're welcome. :D

[arliemaria]

Here's the secret: pick one and stick with it. Really. All the products/methods you mentioned are good. Just pick one.

 

You're welcome. :D

 

Ellie, I thought you'd tell me to buy Spalding 4th Ed.  :)  Which is in my Amazon cart.  I am really feeling crazy ocd about phonics at the moment.

[FairProspects]

Wow! With a language rich environment, do you need a reading program? My son learned to read from us reading to him and him reading to us. We did not use a curriculum. I did buy AAR for my daughter (2nd child) and I just don't understand the need for them. Maybe someone will set me straight? We used AAS for phonics and spelling and love them, even though we rarely use the tiles anymore. It is the only curriculum I will not trade in for something shiny and new. We started with level 1 at 5 yrs and are starting level 3 this year. 

 

Really? This argument seriously bugs me. You just got lucky and have natural readers. There are many of us with dyslexics who work hard at reading with explicit phonics for YEARS. It doesn't matter how rich of a language environment I provide, my kids are not going to pick up reading. I'm glad you didn't need it and your kids took off. But please don't think this is true for every child or look down on the resources I use and work that I do. You have NO idea how much of a challenge it is to teach reading to a dyslexic, just as I have no idea how hard it is to raise someone with ASD, or ADHD, or any other number of challenges.

[Ellie]

Ellie, I thought you'd tell me to buy Spalding 4th Ed.   :)  Which is in my Amazon cart.  I am really feeling crazy ocd about phonics at the moment.

 

Spalding is my favorite. :001_wub:

 

But millions of children learn to read and spell who have never heard of Spalding. You already have good things in your hand, so I didn't see the need to send you on another hunting expedition, lol.

[OneStepAtATime]

Wow! With a language rich environment, do you need a reading program? My son learned to read from us reading to him and him reading to us. We did not use a curriculum. I did buy AAR for my daughter (2nd child) and I just don't understand the need for them. Maybe someone will set me straight? We used AAS for phonics and spelling and love them, even though we rarely use the tiles anymore. It is the only curriculum I will not trade in for something shiny and new. We started with level 1 at 5 yrs and are starting level 3 this year. 

 

I understand where you are at. I'm all over the place with math and own 6 different 3rd grade sets.

 

I would imagine they all get you where you need to go. Remember, what works for one family may not work for you. Don't base your choice off of fear! 

 

-

Wow, it is great that your kids never needed phonics.  Honestly, I never did either.  But there are a LOT of kids that just cannot learn to read effectively without phonics instruction.  Their brains just don't work that way.  Doesn't mean they are any less smart (and honestly may even be incredibly gifted), they just process language differently and need the explicit instruction to be able to decode with any fluency and solid comprehension.  It is just like some people are natural painters, mathematicians, musicians, etc and can pick up those skills with little explicit instruction while others need lots of detailed instruction and tons of practice to achieve in these areas.

[ElizabethB]

Spalding is my favorite. :001_wub:

 

But millions of children learn to read and spell who have never heard of Spalding. You already have good things in your hand, so I didn't see the need to send you on another hunting expedition, lol.

😱 Do we need to worry about aliens here and add you to the celebrity aliens thread?

[KrissiK]

Here's the secret: pick one and stick with it. Really. All the products/methods you mentioned are good. Just pick one.

 

You're welcome. :D

Yes! Your child needs phonics. It's more than just teaching the child how to read. Phonics is word study. That's one of the overwhelming things about homeschooling - the plethora of curriculum out there.

[ElizabethB]

I have taught remedial reading for 20 years with hundreds of students. Most of my remedial students come from whole word based methods, but a few are from poorly implemented phonics programs that caused guessing, for example Alphaphonics word families (you can teach across instead of down if up your child starts guessing) or the fast pace of MFW phonics combined with learning about the stories before reading them or poorly taught Spalding, it is complicated and uses frequent words so it can lead to guessing if you teach it without fully understanding it.

 

I have not yet had a failure from a good used at your own pace phonics program like PP or OPG, and people who understand Spalding get good results from it.

 

I have also had a few older students who were reading 1 and 2 syllable words well after phonics but having trouble with multi syllable words, some people need explicit instruction in syllable types and syllable division.

 

My daughter learned quickly and was reading at the 12th grade level after completing Webster's Speller. My son needed a lot more repetition, he was not reading above grade level until the end of last year. He needed to work through several phonics programs. I will continue working with him with Webster's Speller and other multi syllable resources until he is also reading at the 12th grade level.

[kiana]

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

The vast majority of kids will learn to read with any conscientiously applied and correctly taught phonics-based program, as long as they are developmentally ready. Pick whichever one of the ones you already own you feel you would enjoy teaching out of the most and implement it.

[arliemaria]

Yes! Your child needs phonics. It's more than just teaching the child how to read. Phonics is word study. That's one of the overwhelming things about homeschooling - the plethora of curriculum out there.

I do agree that they will need phonics.  I just feel like they are all different.  They all have differing phonograms, rules, methods.  Then the lists--Ayres, Dolch.  So many things!!!  There isn't much difference between math facts.  1+1=2 in every program.

[arliemaria]

Agree- consistency! 

 

 

My son was reading well before we began any phonics instructions. We did not think to teach them until we decided to homeschool.  We just read to him (almost daily since birth) and helped him sound out words he did not know (light phonics maybe?). But intensive phonics never even crossed our mind. In fact, I think he learned phonics by learning to read. 

I third consistency and will strive for that, but first I have to have a plan.  I cannot be consistent without a plan.

[ElizabethB]

The Dolch words can be learned phonetically. The Ayers list was originally not a phonics list, it was a list used for spelling, it is, like the Dolch list, a most frequent word list.

 

Here is how and why to teach all but 5 of the 220 Dolch words phonetically:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/sightwords.html

[ElizabethB]

Of all the programs you own, OPG is probably the most complete, it and PP teach to the 4th grade level. Basically, any good phonics program is eventually going to teach all the sound spelling patterns, they just start in different orders because small people's brains cannot learn them all at once while learning to blend words, they work on a few, then work on blending them, then add a few more...

 

Eventually, all of them should be taught but they all fit on one page:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/Resources/letter%20sound%20read%20new%202011.pdf

 

The spelling based programs work on spelling to learn the phonics, but you should incorporate a bit of spelling even with a reading based phonics program, you can spell a few words on the white board or with a few sets of magnetic letters on a cookie sheet or magnetic white board.

 

Some students also need to learn syllable division, either something like my syllable division rules and exercises or a multi syllable spelling program like Mega Words or Marcia Henry's Words, which combines vocabulary, root study, spelling, and syllabication.

 

Webster's Speller teaches phonics to a 12th grade level. The adapted American Speller by Crowell is not as complete and does not teach to as high a level as the original Webster's Speller.

 

If you teach all the sound spelling patterns and focus on the left to right nature of sounding out words and spelling, you will be good.

[Raining Pineapples]

Really? This argument seriously bugs me. You just got lucky and have natural readers. There are many of us with dyslexics who work hard at reading with explicit phonics for YEARS. It doesn't matter how rich of a language environment I provide, my kids are not going to pick up reading. I'm glad you didn't need it and your kids took off. But please don't think this is true for every child or look down on the resources I use and work that I do. You have NO idea how much of a challenge it is to teach reading to a dyslexic, just as I have no idea how hard it is to raise someone with ASD, or ADHD, or any other number of challenges.

 See, someone did set me straight :) I'm not looking down on anyone, far from it. I was curious because my kids were reading and we didn't use a phonics program until we got to spelling. I was going to start a post asking if we were missing something by not using a program. I completely understand that children learn differently, and you are correct- I have no idea what it is like to teach anyone other than my own 2 (and I will quite possibly screw that up!)

 

Ah, I think maybe my Wow! should have been explained. I was amazed at how many different things were being considered. I thought maybe I was the only one who did that. 

 

Sorry if I offended anyone. It's hard to remember tone is not conveyed through the text.

 

ETA: I did not consider dyslexia or learning disabilities because they were not mentioned in the opening post. 

Edited August 6, 2014 by Raining Pineapples

[amazzie]

I think you are thinking about it too much! I agree with picking a good phonics method and ignoring the reading advice from SCM.

[PeterPan]

I'll take amazzie's good advice one step further.  Everybody has good advice, but you have to learn to listen to advice from people who are in your situation.  Do you know SCM's situation and what she taught to know *why* she said that?  OneStep and FairProspects have their situations.  So what is YOUR situation?  How was your learning to read in school?  How was your dh's?  If either of you struggled, those would be huge clues to lean a certain direction.  If, on the other hand, both of you learned to read on your own at age 3, that would be another clue.  My guess is you both learned to read in school in a pretty typical way (sounding out, using curriculum).  Your kids are PROBABLY therefore pretty ho-hum and able to work with ANY of the mighty fine options you've been looking at.

 

For the average kid, ANY of the things you've looked at would work.

 

Now I speak as a bit more veteran.  Homeschool from a position of peace.  If you are a believer, your lack of peace is sometimes your gut (or providence) saying it's time to look for something, that something is amiss.  But don't let all the voices steal your peace. You are going to have to be decisive, and you're not always choosing between bad things or clearly good/bad.  Sometimes it's literally four good choices, all of which could work, and picking one.  At that point, when ANY of them could work, it's ok for you to pick the one that looks like it fits YOU the best.  You may need open and go or color or whatever, and it's ok to pick something based on that.  For many kids, ANY of those options will work.  

 

Keep your peace, be decisive, and you're making the right decision for you.

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

I am a strong advocate of the need for phonics (and especially resistant to the whole word approach).  My oldest is a natural reader and speller and took off reading in K, and my husband and I read before kindergarten, but I still believe in phonics.  When you approach larger words and tricky spellings as you get older, those phonics rules as a foundation come back to you.  They're important and set a strong foundation for vocabulary and advanced reading, IMO.  I really disagree with CM on this.

 

I went to private school as a kid with Abeka and ACE, and they were both strong in good, old-fashioned phonics rules.  My oldest took off with SSRW, and we are now using it with my second son.  It is great in that it also teaches handwriting, reading comprehension and spelling in a very fun way.  However, pick whatever you want and appeals to you the most.  Don't go with something just because your friend likes it if it doesn't appeal to you.  From your post, it sounds like you are drawn to LOE.  Consider your child and how it would fit their learning style.  I also think that if you enjoy something and are drawn to it, that enthusiasm will spill over to your child, provided it is not a completely poor fit for the child.  Personally, TOPGTR and 100EZ is not attractive to me, and a lot of people on these boards have expressed their displeasure in it.  They may get the job done, but I don't think they are much fun, personally.  If you like LOE and you think your child would enjoy it, go for it and spend your time getting acquainted with it instead of stressing over what all the experts say.

[calihil]

I also have a K'er this fall (she'll turn 6 in December) and for the last 2 months or so we've just been doing one Phonics Pathways page a day and then every so often she'll read a BOB book or read from McGuffey's Primer. It's working for us!