Delaying reading instruction vs pushing through

[Jenn in CA]

Please, someone tell me to chill out.

 

I have a 6yo (K) who does not like reading lessons. She is very active, not detail-oriented, in general doesn't like formal instruction. Puzzles and learning activities are hard for her. Memorizing is hard.

 

But, she enjoys listening to stories with pictures, and playing games. So for example, while Barton reading is torture (even if only for 10-15 min), playing a bingo game to practice identfying the first sound is fun.

 

I'm already working the learning disability angle. Now I'm asking about the "she's normal, just wait and she'll mature" angle. When do you work even harder at something that's difficult, and when do you stop and try again in 6 months?

[Courtney_Ostaff]

  :chillpill:  There is no research showing that kids who learn to read at 7 are any further ahead by 10 than kids who learn to read at 5 or 6. She may just not be developmentally ready for "sit down" schooling. 30 years ago, no one would have made her sit down to learn to read, and yet, somehow, all those people learned to read. That said, maybe she'd dig this: http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/14583

[PentecostalMom]

Your instincts are right.  She isn't ready and there is nothing wrong with that.  She will learn a lot from games.

[PeterPan]

Well I disagree.  If puzzles are hard for her and you're handing her age-appropriate puzzles, then you could be seeing a vision problem.  My dd totally shied away from puzzles (and was really odd to teach to read) and it turned out she had a bunch of developmental vision problems, including the visual memory of a *2* year old.  She was newly 11 when we got her that developmental vision eval btw.

 

Was this dc adopted?  Any reason to expect exposures, malnutrition, or other causes of developmental delays?  It's totally reasonable to want that eval'd and explored.  You would talk with your ped about it.  

 

The problem with the whole "grow out of it" approach is that kids with SN actually DO continue to progress oftentimes, relative to themselves.  So if you wait and don't eval, yeah she'll probably improve.  She'll just continue to be BEHIND on parameters, which will leave you constantly wondering.  Evals help you get all that out in the open.  The irony is that some things can be intervened on for free at home.  For instance, if you were to find she has adhd and vision problems, you could do vision therapy and then do metronome work and working memory work at home.  The VT would cost money, but the rest can be done at home for nominal cost with big changes, meaning your evals actually helped you improve your lives. 

 

If she's adopted and has SN, isn't there extra coverage through the gov't for evals?  I really don't know much about it.  Just saying to me evals are how you sort through what you wait on and what you intervene on.  They don't preclude allowing for timetable.  They just let you make that decision with better information than just random thoughts about how your description of your kid reminds somebody about their kid at some age.  

 

 

[Alte Veste Academy]

Puzzles and learning activities are hard for her. Memorizing is hard.

 

when do you stop and try again in 6 months?

From someone who always recommends chilling... I would not be concerned about not being ready to read. I would definitely drop it for now or just take the enjoyable baby steps that she likes. However, I would be pretty concerned about difficulty with puzzles (providing they are age appropriate) and learning activities in general. Not liking them wouldn't bother me much. Not being able to do them would worry me. I wonder what kind of stuff she had trouble memorizing also.

[ElizabethB]

Get these charts and point to the charts!

 

https://www.phonovisual.com/products.php?c=1

 

I should have got them 20 years ago, Don Potter finally convinced me it was easier to point to a chart than to say s says SSS 1,000,000 times.

 

(Actually, the little frog teaches s says ssss, the charts are mostly for ai and sh and things like that. I outsourced basic letter sounds to the frog a long time ago.)

 

My concentration game is also fun,

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

:grouphug:

[Ellie]

Please, someone tell me to chill out.

 

I have a 6yo (K) who does not like reading lessons. She is very active, not detail-oriented, in general doesn't like formal instruction. Puzzles and learning activities are hard for her. Memorizing is hard.

 

But, she enjoys listening to stories with pictures, and playing games. So for example, while Barton reading is torture (even if only for 10-15 min), playing a bingo game to practice identfying the first sound is fun.

 

I'm already working the learning disability angle. Now I'm asking about the "she's normal, just wait and she'll mature" angle. When do you work even harder at something that's difficult, and when do you stop and try again in 6 months?

 

:chillpill: 

 

I would not *even* begin thinking about a learning disability in a child who is only 6yo. I would be far more inclined to think that she doesn't like Barton, especially since it sounds as if you started when she was 5.

[Momling]

My 6 year old is in public school and the entire (quite good) district happily de-emphasizes academics in kindergarten. So if your 6 year old is behind, so is our entire town's population of 6 year olds. And yet, they all read in the end...

[HappyClassical]

I agree with other posters regarding less concerned about reading; more concerned about puzzles. For the reading, setting aside possible LD, I don't believe in stopping once you start. Change the program, change the pace, reduce the amount of time each lesson - but don't just put it away... Because my DD was a slow progression and then suddenly it just CLICKED and now we are flying along. We had to change up how we were doing things a bit but it's all working. I don't. Relieve in making kids miserable; it reduces their desire to want to learn, but I think, and have seen, kids who lose esteem, or feel like they've failed if they perceive it as "quitting." So, I'm in the persist, but persist with changes camp.

[a27mom]

I had a 6 y/o in a similar place w/ reading. (Although she did enjoy puzzles etc..). First she did have a vision issue, convergence and divergence issues. Very basic vision therapy made a big difference and now that is not a problem.

 

But she is still not a kid who "reads". I switched to a very game and activity oriented curriculum for LA. This has made a big difference. She enjoys it. But I also stopped "making" her read. I try not to do any torture reading with her. That required me to just chill. She is still not reading books, but it her reading is much improved. She will occasionally read instructions in her math workbook, without my prompting her to try. She reads short informational signs in the community "please don't touch the glass" etc... But 5 months ago she didn't do any of this.

 

I do have to keep telling myself over and over to chill. :). It is ok if she doesn't start reading books until 7, or even later.

[Walking-Iris]

I wouldn't necessarily try to use Barton with a Kinder! 

 

Have you tried anything else? A primer approach such as OPGTR. A writing first approach such as Spalding? Any workbooks such as ETC or Plaid. Manipulative type like AAR or AAS.

 

My 6 year old was having trouble with reading, he still balks at practicing a read aloud with me. The thing that helped was to change my approach. I think Barton would be a bit much to use right out of the gate.

 

When you say puzzles are hard---do you mean a typical 34 piece type puzzle or logic thinking type puzzles?

 

I wouldn't worry too much. If games are what she likes---play those games. I had to make learning to read an amusement park when my ds was K. He has to write/spell everything first now. 

 

Working on handwriting/spelling and using fun workbooks that encourage writing really helps him. Just straight practice reading is not the best. H estill doesn't willingly sit down with a book, but I do insist on short practice reading every day.

 

I wouldn't delay reading. I'm very much in the camp of do it early and work on it gently and get to that finish line. And expect to take two steps back and review review. 

 

 

 

[FO4UR]

Happy Phonics.  You can cover plenty of ground through games.

 

 

Meanwhile, I'd look into underlying problems as advised above.  Don't "push" to the point of frustration.  Don't overlook signs that something deeper is going on.  Do switch your methods to something that she clicks with.  Do keep plodding on, slow and steady.

[Courtney_Ostaff]

This is interesting:

Reading Experience May Change the Brains of Dyslexic Students

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

I would have her eyes checked by a developmental eye doctor, simply because my now 8-year-old was exactly that age when he was struggling to learn to read.  It was literally torture for him.  Your child's difficulty with puzzles would also concern me.

 

Our son has vision issues we were unaware of, in spite of the fact that he had had regular eye exams since he was a tiny babe (he has a medical condition that warranted careful monitoring of his eyes for corneal scratches).

 

Once the vision issues were addressed, he very quickly became an avid reader.  It is worth ruling that possibility out now.

[Crimson Wife]

I agree with the recommendation for a vision eval by a developmental optometrist to rule out tracking issues.

 

My wiggly boy really liked the "hands-on" phonics activities in the Evan-Moor "Take it to Your Seat Phonics Centers" book. http://www.evan-moor.com/p/501/take-it-to-your-seat-phonics-centers-level-b

[Courtney_Ostaff]

.... I pushed through, but VERY slowly and carefully.  Lessons were 5 minutes a day.  ... Apparently I was boring him to death.

 

Been there, done that! Last fall, I was so frustrated, because she was SUCH A PITA! about reading lessons (I was at things like st and th at that point, IIRC). Drove me bonkers (also, I was pregnant and tired). Finally, one afternoon, I said, "Fine! I'm tired and I'm tired of arguing.Go pick any book you want off the shelf and read it to me. We'll call that reading lessons for today." So she went, picked The Giving Tree (Grade level Equivalent: 2.9) off the bookshelf, and proceeded to read it to me. I didn't know whether to laugh in relief, or cry at my stupidity. :lol:

 

FWIW, my daughter despises puzzles in all shapes and forms. She draws beautifully, makes elaborate collages, etc. She just hates puzzles. It's not always a sign of vision issues.

[Reefgazer]

I would hold off on pushing her to read; 6 years old is awfully young to push reading aggressively, IMO.  My daughter learned to read fluently rather early and my son a bit late, so I was panic-stricken with him, as you can imagine.  I should have chilled out.  He became a fluent reader when he was darned good and ready, and the truth is, my pushing did nothing to speed up the process and just made him stubbornly refuse to do what I asked.  Now that he is in third grade, he is at the same place my DD was in third grade and you can't tell he was a late reader.

[Tanikit]

I wouldn't push at 6, but I would expose her to words and phonics all the time - put up letters or sounds in the passage or the bathroom and read them to her, pointing them out as you pass. Sound out words for her, model, model, model and keep reading to her, but stop the testing and stop expecting her to do it for you. Blend for her, but don't make her blend. If you do want to "test" her then put cards on top of a hill and make her run and fetch the one you ask for - you'll soon see if it is the testing or the formal instruction that she dislikes (or both). I had to keep my eldest moving constantly to learn anything (she did learn very young, but it was not in any way formal).

 

I agree that you should get vision tested too. And when you start with seatwork try and start with something she does enjoy (maybe art, crafts, or maybe she really does like math) and then see how she sits (does she wiggle, knock over her chair, is she concentrating and so on) and you can use that to see how you might teach reading - probably NOT at a table.

[PeterPan]

Been there, done that! Last fall, I was so frustrated, because she was SUCH A PITA! about reading lessons (I was at things like st and th at that point, IIRC). Drove me bonkers (also, I was pregnant and tired). Finally, one afternoon, I said, "Fine! I'm tired and I'm tired of arguing.Go pick any book you want off the shelf and read it to me. We'll call that reading lessons for today." So she went, picked The Giving Tree (Grade level Equivalent: 2.9) off the bookshelf, and proceeded to read it to me. I didn't know whether to laugh in relief, or cry at my stupidity. :lol:

 

FWIW, my daughter despises puzzles in all shapes and forms. She draws beautifully, makes elaborate collages, etc. She just hates puzzles. It's not always a sign of vision issues.

My dd sculpted beautifully and has drawings from before VT that are quite intricate and good. (I still have them!)  She still had vision problems.  The way you eliminate them is with a developmental optometrist check.  (for the op)  COVD.org is where you find them.  If you search my old posts from back then, I was going on about how my dd not coloring, not this and that was because she was so artistic.  She was and is creative and artistic, but that wasn't the reason she was skipping developmentally normal tasks.  If they CAN and just don't PREFER to, that's one thing.  If they melt down, struggle, or can't, that's another.

[Alte Veste Academy]

If they CAN and just don't PREFER to, that's one thing. If they melt down, struggle, or can't, that's another.

:iagree:

[Dory]

As someone who constantly had people telling me to chill and be patient with both my boys. I wish I hadn't listened to them. Have her vision checked, get an eval if you can, and move from there. At least you would have some answers then. Waiting until she's older might be all she needs, but if she does have a problem, waiting till she's older won't fix it. There are a few problems my boys have that we would be much further ahead with dealing with, had I simply started earlier.

 

Don't push her. That will just leave her hating it all. But make sure there isn't something going on that is making it harder for her then it should be.

[mhaddon]

What is her best learning style? What kind of memorization are you working on? My son that has dyslexia had trouble memorizing his letters and still messes up small sight words. He can read large words well. He is very, very audiotry. I am very, very visual. So you can see how that has been :)  I recomend figuring out how she learns and working around that. We also work hard for a few weeks on reading, and then take a break. He knows if he pushes through he will have a break. During that time I read to him a lot. We are now to the point he is reading on level with assistance. However, for pleasure he still isn't picking up anything more than the smaller books to read to his siblings (like frog and toad level)  Anything put to song he pickes up on much quicker.  I feel bad because I am sceptical about the VT, I had a horrible experience and a good friend went to the same place and had similar trouble. After going to another place, much much further they gave her a completly different diagnosis. However, I knew the exercises wouldn't hurt so I bought this book, it may be worth looking into :)

http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Ocular-Visual-Perceptual-Skills/dp/1556425953/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1400373307&sr=8-3&keywords=vision+therapy

[PeterPan]

What is her best learning style? What kind of memorization are you working on? My son that has dyslexia had trouble memorizing his letters and still messes up small sight words. He can read large words well. He is very, very audiotry. I am very, very visual. So you can see how that has been :)  I recomend figuring out how she learns and working around that. We also work hard for a few weeks on reading, and then take a break. He knows if he pushes through he will have a break. During that time I read to him a lot. We are now to the point he is reading on level with assistance. However, for pleasure he still isn't picking up anything more than the smaller books to read to his siblings (like frog and toad level)  Anything put to song he pickes up on much quicker.  I feel bad because I am sceptical about the VT, I had a horrible experience and a good friend went to the same place and had similar trouble. After going to another place, much much further they gave her a completly different diagnosis. However, I knew the exercises wouldn't hurt so I bought this book, it may be worth looking into :)

http://www.amazon.com/Developing-Ocular-Visual-Perceptual-Skills/dp/1556425953/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1400373307&sr=8-3&keywords=vision+therapy

This is a great book and a GREAT choice for people who can't get access to VT for whatever reason.  The one caveat is that if you *can* get a proper vision eval by a developmental optometrist (one of good reputation!) you're going to be a lot happier.  That way you're not shooting in the dark.  Also, VT with a good therapist will bump up the pace of what you're accomplishing.

 

 

As someone who constantly had people telling me to chill and be patient with both my boys. I wish I hadn't listened to them. Have her vision checked, get an eval if you can, and move from there. At least you would have some answers then. Waiting until she's older might be all she needs, but if she does have a problem, waiting till she's older won't fix it. There are a few problems my boys have that we would be much further ahead with dealing with, had I simply started earlier.

 

Don't push her. That will just leave her hating it all. But make sure there isn't something going on that is making it harder for her then it should be.

This is SO true.  It is SO unfun to have things go on and on till the child is 10, 12, 15... My dd was 12 when we finally did evals.  When you wait like that, you realize you could have saved yourself SO much grief by getting that information sooner...

[mhaddon]

Unfortunatly the one near us has many bad reviews. The only good reviews come from those that have state insurance and do not have to pay out of pocket. Some things to look for:  She/he is willing to work around your ability to pay, even if that means every other week or once a month, with extra homework that you are responsible for. This one was unwilling.  Also make sure that you are fully approved before beggining and don't take their word that they cleared it with your insurace, call yourself. She has gotten thousands of dollars this way from other people in our area. My friend drove further the other direction and it was $40 a session, not $150 and they were willing to do once a month if needed. I would highly recomend a second opinion if possible.

[Jenn in CA]

Thank you to everyone for your thoughtful replies. They have given me much to consider. Some thoughts I've had since posting this (and kind of in summary of many of your comments):

* It's appropriate to teach reading to a 6yo (K) if it's not painfully difficult, or causing tension or too much frustration.

* It's good to keep it fun. [thank you for all the game ideas!!]

* Teaching a child reading doesn't necessarily mean they'll get it right away.

* It's not out of the normal range to not "get it" at age 6.