I am Done!!! (long)

[hsmom]

I cannot fight with my son anymore! I just cannot due it. I am tired and I mentally drained! I just cannot due this.

 

I fight him everyday to get up, do his chores, and start school at a reasonable time. Well it is 10 am once again and he is not done with anything and we have not even thought of starting school. Yesterday it was noon before we got to start. He fights me the whole way. Then when I tell him that is it, you are going back to public school I am not fighting with you about this anymore. He starts crying and throwing a fit that he doesn't want to go back. Hey he is not learning what he needs to here, all we seem to do is fight about it. Then there is the when we do, do stuff he diddles around and complains that he is not out doing something else, and this is taking too long.

 

I just cannot fight anymore! I am done. I gave him the whole summer off, thinking the problem was that he needed a break, well that did nothing to help. It is all the same. Everyday is the same. He won't read a book without a fight, he won't do his math with out a fight, the only things he wants to do is spelling and grammar and that is because they are easy and take no time to do. He diddles so bad that 10 problems of math end up taking him over an hour to do. Then he doesn't even try to do them, he just guesses and goes on. He will read a chapter of a book then put it up and never finish it. Then he will grab another book and do the same thing.

 

If it requires effort he wants nothing to do with it. What am I doing wrong? Why is he doing this? And this is nothing new, it is just that I notice it worse now that he is homeschooled and I am the one trying to make a child learn something, that he could care less about. He doesn't want to learn, or do anything because it requires he put effort out. I just cannot figure this out.

 

I need some help, advice, anything! It has just become overwhelming! I need help!

 

I have tried doing things like unit studies on stuff he likes, it is the same he doesn't want to put out the effort to learn something. He expects me to do all the work and everything will be alright. I have told him over and over again, all I can do is give you to resources, opportunities, and some directions. I cannot make you smarter or learn that is up to you. You have to want this. You have to want a better life in your future for you. I cannot give this to you if you are not willing to put something into it.

 

I know he is not seeing this kind of behavior at our home, dh is a very hard worker and dedicated to whatever he does. I am the same way.

 

Now the other thing that is making this hard is my ds 4 is seeing how his brother acts and is trying to do the same thing. I will not stand for this.

 

Dh says that if he doesn't want to try to just send him back. Now I feel as if I have failed him in some way.

 

Help!!!!

 

Sorry for this being so long. I just don't have anyone else to talk to about this.

[Kathleen in VA]

At our house, if you don't do schoolwork, you get to do housework (getting ready for that "ditch-digging" job) ;), and it's not the easy stuff either - it's cleaning the toilets and any other tedious, dirty job that needs doing. If you slack off on the housework, you don't eat. Really. Also, take away any privileges - no fun whatsoever. I'm guessing this may sound harsh to some, but this is really what love is. The real world will not be so kind.

 

ETA: All of this should be handled in a very matter-of-fact way - no yelling, no begging, no second chances, no emotion. Just lay it out in plain English and let him deal with the consequences.

[clwcain]

Have you asked him to articulate why he feels entitled to have everything done for him?

 

Is it the time of day?

 

Is it your attitude towards him?

[hsmom]

I really need to do something like that, maybe that will help. Yet, also then I run into the not effort thing, he would diddle all day and get nothing done. Then you did mention that no work, no food, gosh he would hate me then...

[hsmom]

Have you asked him to articulate why he feels entitled to have everything done for him?

 

Is it the time of day?

 

Is it your attitude towards him?

 

He won't give answers to why. Except it boils down to he really just doesn't want to do it.

 

We have tried different times of day, he would rather do nothing all the time. Well except play with his friends.

 

As for my attitude, I try my hardest to be positive and kind toward him. It is I am finally at my wits end and am frustrated. I know it shows and he reacts the same to the patient me and the frustrated me.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

:grouphug:

 

I have a friend here who is dealing with the same type of things with her dds. She is about to send them to the American school in the City she's so frustrated.

 

I've dealt with this a little bit with my dd13 (almost 14), too. I'm not sure where she gets it, but, I've tried to nip it in the bud. Here's some things I did to help out:

 

1. I made out a schedule for her with deadlines for things to get done. If they aren't she starts to loose privileges like time with friends, time on the computer, time on the phone, tv time, game time, things like that. She is highly motivated by time communicating with friends because she doesn't see them a lot. This is a good thing to get her going.

 

2. I got dh on my side and we, together, talked with her about her responsibility to her education. This is something that isn't an option. He backed me on all the points I made to her. It's been tough on her not to vind an ally in the house.

 

3. I didn't make threats I wasn't willing to follow through on. I've done that and they quickly catch on that I don't mean it. If you are willing to send him to school, then that's something to threaten him with, but, if you really aren't don't start using it becase it undermines you when you do threaten things you will take away or do. It's confusing to them.

 

 

I don't know how much this will help, but, I hope something helps you a little. :grouphug: Hope today is better.

[Amy in Orlando]

At our house, if you don't do schoolwork, you get to do housework (getting ready for that "ditch-digging" job) ;), and it's not the easy stuff either - it's cleaning the toilets and any other tedious, dirty job that needs doing. If you slack off on the housework, you don't eat. Really. Also, take away any privileges - no fun whatsoever. I'm guessing this may sound harsh to some, but this is really what love is. The real world will not be so kind.

 

ETA: All of this should be handled in a very matter-of-fact way - no yelling, no begging, no second chances, no emotion. Just lay it out in plain English and let him deal with the consequences.

 

Yep. I would also stop threatening him with public school unless you're going to follow through.

 

There would be no screen time here, no interesting food, no phone, no outside activities, nothing until he changed his attitude. I would also remove anything interesting from his bedroom.

 

And, like Kathleen said, I would do all of this with no big explanations, discussions, arguments, shouting or emotion.

[Rich with Kids]

I have had similar issues. We changed our curriculum to Switched-On-Schoolhouse and they are actually enjoying school. It's computer based so there is much less required from me, so I'm more relaxed and easier to deal with.

 

I agree with Kathleen. Boys need to stay busy. We have the same policy. School hours ate 8-2:30 with reasonable breaks. They do not get free time unless their work is completed. Period. I have implemented a very structured schedule and they are responding well to it. And we have a much larger school load this year. I hardly clean my house at all anymore because i have divided up the chores among them. My house is swept, dusted, wiped down, toilets cleaned and laundry done every single day.

 

I'm lucky that I have 5 kids. They spend about a total of 45 minutes a day keeping the house clean.

 

As for boys in particular, you have to ride their butts. They need to stay busy. Don't worry about being his friend. He needs you to be his parent and it's OK to be firm.

[Remudamom]

Just like some of the ladies are telling you, everything shuts down until his attitude changes. Food, friends, activities, toys, games, everything.

 

I'm guessing this is nothing new, attitudes like this don't spring up over night. The longer they've been allowed to develop the harder they are to change.

[NevadaRabbit]

At our house, if you don't do schoolwork, you get to do housework (getting ready for that "ditch-digging" job) ;), and it's not the easy stuff either - it's cleaning the toilets and any other tedious, dirty job that needs doing. If you slack off on the housework, you don't eat. Really. Also, take away any privileges - no fun whatsoever. I'm guessing this may sound harsh to some, but this is really what love is. The real world will not be so kind.

 

ETA: All of this should be handled in a very matter-of-fact way - no yelling, no begging, no second chances, no emotion. Just lay it out in plain English and let him deal with the consequences.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Start with a few chores and a small dry-erase board or posterboard. List, say, 4 morning chores. To have breakfast, those chores must be done (to Mom's approval). Make your bed, comb your hair, wash hands and face, set the table. Voila! Breakfast. No nagging, no begging yelling whining threatening etc. Tell him once, do your jobs. No jobs, no breakfast. He won't starve. And don't let him raid the pantry behind your back either - that's dishonest and warrants a less-than-desirable chore in response.

 

Now do that with schoolwork. We'll break for lunch when you've completed these tasks: x, y, z. No schoolwork done, no lunch. Or no "free play" time, or he gets a computer game break of 15 minutes (with a timer!) when he's done.... You'll have to decide what his currency is - what motivates him to get things done so he can have it/do it. Yes, it sounds like bribery. Guess what - we all work for some sort of extrinsic motivation. For now, you need to totally manipulate his universe to make him see that being diligent to complete a task brings pleasure. He will learn over time that intrinsic satisfaction is part of that reward, but don't expect that realization to come quickly nor across-the-board.

 

You can do it! We paid a hefty price for letting discipline (I mean structure and expectations) slide over the summer. I am having to "crack down" on us all, myself included, to get things back into line. It is practice for later in life, when being on time and doing what is expected of us is a reality. We're doing no favors to our kids when we let them get away with minimal effort as we chase them around nagging them through every step. That wears me out!!

[Christy B]

You have just described my oldest daughter. She entered 8th grade this year at a local Christian school. Like you, I got to the point where I simply couldn't continue. My struggles with my older child took over to the point where my younger child is now a full grade level "behind".

 

It was hard, hard, hard for me to give up MY ideal of homeschooling. Note -- MY. IDEAL. That was my focus -- homeschooling was about me. At one point, I literally thought my heart was going to break, giving it up.

 

But, here's why I did, and here's why I'm glad (so far!): Homeschooling takes two -- the teacher and the student. And, I'm convinced, this is more true in homeschooling than in a classroom setting. A classroom teacher can take a different approach with a child that she gets to walk away from at the end of the day. Homeschooling requires a unique dynamic between parent and child. You know how often we glibly say "well, homeschooling isn't for everyone"? Well, perhaps it *really* isn't for every parent, or for every child.

 

Clearly, what you are doing is not working -- not for you, not for your child, and not for the rest of your family. Your dh seems to be willing to consider another option. You seem ready to consider another option. Granted, ds pitches a fit at the mention of another option -- that's okay, you don't have to let an 11 year old tell you what to do.

 

So -- the question you need to ask yourself, is this: Do I really and truly want to do "whatever it takes" to make homeschooling work? If the answer is no, then joyfully and with great enthusiasm consider all of the other options available to you. Make it your mission to find the best possible choice to try for this year. Determine that you will evaluate at the end of the first semester.

 

If the answer is yes -- if in your heart of hearts you just know that you can make this work, and that your life will be richer if you do make this work -- then make it your mission to find the best possible options for homeschooling. Maybe this needs to be your "make or break" year: Son, if we have not resolved these issues by Thanksgiving, then at Easter we will start interviewing and taking placement tests for schools.

 

Maybe your son would thrive with a little more outside accountability -- look for outside classes. Maybe your son really hates Saxon math with a white-hot intensity (I do.) -- perhaps you could try Teaching Textbooks math, which is SELF GRADING and has a really high "neat-o" factor. Maybe your son actually prefers textbook or workbook learning for history and science, but doesn't know how to articulate that. Maybe he is overwhelmed with the "literature rich" curriculum of Sonlight. (My dd despised literature based curriculum, much to my dismay. But she thrived on programs like Mystery of History, and the history workbooks published by EPS.)

 

Don't be afraid to make drastic changes. Don't be afraid to step away from classical, literature based homeschooling (I know, I know -- it's the be all and end all for us parents, but frankly, not every child is best served by it.) Midway through 7th grade I realized that homeschooling was failing my daughter, so I ditched everything we were using over the holidays, and we finished out the year with Life of Fred Math, Our Mother Tongue for English, and I begged a friend to tutor writing. We dropped all of MY fancy notebooking and listened to Story of the World without doing timelines, mapwork, etc. The year ended on a positive note, thankfully.

 

As an aside -- there is a line of thinking that would indicate that you should never quit homeschooling for "discipline issues". I used to wholeheartedly agree with that -- now, not so much. For our family, homeschooling was falling more into the "provoking children to wrath" category than it was "bringing up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord" category. I am NOT saying that is the case in your family -- obviously, I could not and would not try to make that assumption from a single post -- but, do not feel pressure to use homeschooling to try to solve every discipline and relational problem that arises.

 

I understand that feeling of failure. I felt like I was not only failing my daughter, but my homeschooling friends (whose children are all younger than mine) and the homeschooling community within our church. Huge, huge guilt. Try not to go there, okay? It serves no purpose. If I had allowed myself to continue homeschooling out of a sense of guilt or obligation, I would have likely not been able to meet the needs of *either* of my children this year -- now, THAT would have been a failure on my part -- a failure to choose the best that I could for the best good of my family as a whole.

 

Hang in there; no matter what you decide, you will get plenty of support and understanding here. There are folks who can help you regroup and find homeschooling success, and there are folks who have discovered that other school options were actually a better fit for their child or their family. And, it's perfectly normal to grieve the loss of something you love, even if you're convinced it's the right decision to give it up. We understand that.

[Mama Lynx]

Hmmm.

 

My kids are computer crazy, but there is no computer time until school is finished. Nor is there any TV until school is finished. And like someone else mentioned, if you choose to not do school, you do chores.

 

In the end, in my house, school and chores really are choices. When they go to work, their boss will not physically force them to do the work - if they don't do the work, there will be consequences to face.

 

Here, if you don't do the work, you don't get the perks.

 

How does he feel about the idea of public school?

 

I always present it to the kids: "it is the law that you do school. If you don't do it with me, you will have to go to school and do it there." My kids do *not* want to go to ps (except my youngest, but that's another story ;-) Do this very matter of factly. It's not an issue of you failing him. It's simply the fact that it is your job to do your best to see that he is educated, and if he refuses to cooperate with you, then he'll have to go elsewhere.

 

Learning and chores are the child's job. Teaching, chores and mothering are mine. We all have our jobs to do. No one gets to not work. We're all in this together.

 

I work hard to not fight my kids on school. If they are resistant, then we don't do the work ... but they don't get the computer or TV. That's usually enough to motivate my kids. Could his skateboarding be used as motivation? Also, if they fight me when I'm ready to work with them, then later on in the day when they realized they're going to miss out on their computer time they come to me begging to do school. However, then they have to wait on me. I was ready at the normal time - if they choose to not work then, then they have to wait on me and my schedule ... and my good will ;-)

 

In the "real world," if you don't work, you get fired. If you get fired, you don't eat. Or own fun things. That's life.

[Nestof3]

Joanna,

 

I'm assuming you've already restricted him from the things he likes to do since he isn't willing to do what is required of him -- skateboard, bike, motorcycle. Oh, and television, computers, gaming.

 

I know parenting is frustrating, but it just seems to me that life for him is pretty good -- he's calling all of the shots. He sounds like he's in complete control of everything.

 

I personally would make life miserable for him until he realizes there's a better way. I would also make him work so hard that school actually seems like a break.

[CalicoKat]

I cannot fight with my son anymore! I just cannot due it. I am tired and I mentally drained! I just cannot due this.

 

I fight him everyday to get up, do his chores, and start school at a reasonable time. Well it is 10 am once again and he is not done with anything and we have not even thought of starting school. Yesterday it was noon before we got to start. He fights me the whole way. Then when I tell him that is it, you are going back to public school I am not fighting with you about this anymore. He starts crying and throwing a fit that he doesn't want to go back. Hey he is not learning what he needs to here, all we seem to do is fight about it. Then there is the when we do, do stuff he diddles around and complains that he is not out doing something else, and this is taking too long.

 

I just cannot fight anymore! I am done. I gave him the whole summer off, thinking the problem was that he needed a break, well that did nothing to help. It is all the same. Everyday is the same. He won't read a book without a fight, he won't do his math with out a fight, the only things he wants to do is spelling and grammar and that is because they are easy and take no time to do. He diddles so bad that 10 problems of math end up taking him over an hour to do. Then he doesn't even try to do them, he just guesses and goes on. He will read a chapter of a book then put it up and never finish it. Then he will grab another book and do the same thing.

 

If it requires effort he wants nothing to do with it. What am I doing wrong? Why is he doing this? And this is nothing new, it is just that I notice it worse now that he is homeschooled and I am the one trying to make a child learn something, that he could care less about. He doesn't want to learn, or do anything because it requires he put effort out. I just cannot figure this out.

 

I need some help, advice, anything! It has just become overwhelming! I need help!

 

I have tried doing things like unit studies on stuff he likes, it is the same he doesn't want to put out the effort to learn something. He expects me to do all the work and everything will be alright. I have told him over and over again, all I can do is give you to resources, opportunities, and some directions. I cannot make you smarter or learn that is up to you. You have to want this. You have to want a better life in your future for you. I cannot give this to you if you are not willing to put something into it.

 

I know he is not seeing this kind of behavior at our home, dh is a very hard worker and dedicated to whatever he does. I am the same way.

 

Now the other thing that is making this hard is my ds 4 is seeing how his brother acts and is trying to do the same thing. I will not stand for this.

 

Dh says that if he doesn't want to try to just send him back. Now I feel as if I have failed him in some way.

 

Help!!!!

 

Sorry for this being so long. I just don't have anyone else to talk to about this.

how old is this child? I'm assuming he's 10ish or so. . . if not please disregard.

 

my knee jerk reaction when I first read your post is that there is something else going on here.

1. perhaps ADHD

2. perhaps a fear of some sort that makes him push you away. Like the fear of abandonment.

3. perhaps it's a problem with his vision or some other physical issue.

4. perhaps some of the curriculum you've choses is beyond his abilities. If he's coming from the ps, chances are that he's facing some gaps in his learning.

5. he's a perfectionist?

6. homeschooling is more than academics. Its about reaching our kids hearts too.

 

If you're dedicated to homeschooling (for the year) it's time to stop threatening public school. Rather I would say, "Homeschooling is the choice daddy and I made for you this year. You can choose to make it miserable for us all or you can choose to give it a go. Of course, we'd prefer you give it a try, but the choice is yours. " Then apply the techniques other posters have given you. Also, don't forget to reward big for the slightest step in the right direction.

 

If he's still struggling then set up some doctor's appointments for him and explain to him that you know he's a great kid but perhaps there's other things that are keeping him from being able to perform well. Or perhaps go back a level in your curriculum and try something below his grade level.

 

My case worker suggests a bowl of M&M's during math. One reward:One equation done/attempted. That will help establish his abilities.

 

You're the parent, don't offer him an ultimatum to butt his head against. Step aside and let consequences be his enemy. Don't be afraid to let the big consequences teach even though he might be loosing out on a great opportunity.

 

My dd was told to get her tennis shoes packed in her overnight bag for a stay with her sister at gma's farm. She was delighted to go. GM met us halfway and after a meal at a restaurant we were loading the kids in her car when I noticed dd didn't have her tennis shoes on. I said, " did you pack your shoes?" DD reassured me she did and they were in her suitcase. I asked her to show them to me (mom's intuition at it's best). They weren't there. DD had lied to me.

 

I was sooo torn. I wanted her to go. I needed the break. DD loves the farm. But I couldn't let it slide. I put her stuff back in our car. GM hugged a sobbing little girl. We went home. Sister went without her.

 

She's never forgotten her shoes since. And she's been more truthful too.

 

Consequences teach more effectively than my frustrated, angry yelling.

[orangeblossom]

I was having this exact issue with my dd and my dh pointed out that I shouldn't be arguing with her. I should just tell her what was expected and that was it. If it wasn't done without arguments, there would be consequences, period. We sat her down and explained what was expected, from this moment forward. We even made a written statement of consequences (so there'd be no misinterpretations) and hung it right on the fridge. Nothing long, just short and simple.

 

It was so freeing for me! I was free to stop arguing. I just cut her off, reminded her of the consequences, and if she continued, I handed them out. Period. That was it. If she still continued, I sent her to her room until she was ready to comply. If her work wasn't getting done, she'd have to do it at night with Dad. She really hated that because the rest of us were free while she had to continue working. She'd have to sit there until it was done. We would be very pleasant during the evening 'sessions', we were available if she needed help and we wouldn't argue. If she started we'd just walk away.

 

It took about a week and a half, but she realized that I just wasn't going to argue with her anymore and she stopped. That was the year before last, and she just does her work now, now problem.

 

Our consequences were extra math drill, housework, no screen time and early bed. But that would really depend on what hits home for your child.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

You have not failed him. You just have to learn to stop fighting him. It was so easy for me to type that just now, but this is SO HARD to do. I struggle with this myself.

 

As I type, my dd is working on defining 6 words for logic. Six words. She has been working on this for over an hour. I have said nothing, except I have told her she is not going to get lunch until she finishes this assignment. I have heard several complaints of being "starving", which I have answered with, "work quickly so you can make your lunch."

 

We will still be doing school at 4PM today and dd will still have homework, I can tell you that right now. For her, this means she will not have a whole lot of time to do as she pleases. If she does not complete today's work, I will not be taking her to the movies tomorrow as expected.

 

I have to make it look like this does not phase me at all. I like sitting here for over an hour. Really I do. Really. I do my best to keep this: :banghead::cursing::toetap05: internal. I'm not perfect, but I try.

 

My dd has a wonderful imagination, so being trapped in a desk is really not a punishment for her because she can zone out like a pro. The punishment comes later...when she realizes she missed a favorite show, or she hears the neighborhood kids outside playing.

 

I build rewards into my day. If dd has finished a lot of her work by noon, she can take a whole hour break. If not, she eats and then gets right back to it. If she has done a good job during the week, we will do art on Friday. Every now and then, when dd bangs out an assignment neatly, accurately, and quickly, I might just bring in a treat for her to enjoy while she does her next assignment. I don't do it often so that she doesn't come to expect a reward every time for doing something she should be doing anyway.

 

Breaking news: dd finished logic assignment. Whew!

 

As the mother/teacher *I* can suspend or amend the schedule. We have a light day on Friday and I plan a lighter week every 4th week so if *I* choose to go on an outing or do a special project we can make up work then. But I am not likely to do this if it is taking forever to get our work done, so that's even more incentive to work hard.

[Peri]

I cannot fight with my son anymore! I just cannot due it. I am tired and I mentally drained! I just cannot due this.

 

I fight him everyday to get up, do his chores, and start school at a reasonable time. Well it is 10 am once again and he is not done with anything and we have not even thought of starting school. Yesterday it was noon before we got to start. He fights me the whole way. Then when I tell him that is it, you are going back to public school I am not fighting with you about this anymore. He starts crying and throwing a fit that he doesn't want to go back. Hey he is not learning what he needs to here, all we seem to do is fight about it. Then there is the when we do, do stuff he diddles around and complains that he is not out doing something else, and this is taking too long.

 

I just cannot fight anymore! I am done. I gave him the whole summer off, thinking the problem was that he needed a break, well that did nothing to help. It is all the same. Everyday is the same. He won't read a book without a fight, he won't do his math with out a fight, the only things he wants to do is spelling and grammar and that is because they are easy and take no time to do. He diddles so bad that 10 problems of math end up taking him over an hour to do. Then he doesn't even try to do them, he just guesses and goes on. He will read a chapter of a book then put it up and never finish it. Then he will grab another book and do the same thing.

 

If it requires effort he wants nothing to do with it. What am I doing wrong? Why is he doing this? And this is nothing new, it is just that I notice it worse now that he is homeschooled and I am the one trying to make a child learn something, that he could care less about. He doesn't want to learn, or do anything because it requires he put effort out. I just cannot figure this out.

 

I need some help, advice, anything! It has just become overwhelming! I need help!

 

I have tried doing things like unit studies on stuff he likes, it is the same he doesn't want to put out the effort to learn something. He expects me to do all the work and everything will be alright. I have told him over and over again, all I can do is give you to resources, opportunities, and some directions. I cannot make you smarter or learn that is up to you. You have to want this. You have to want a better life in your future for you. I cannot give this to you if you are not willing to put something into it.

 

I know he is not seeing this kind of behavior at our home, dh is a very hard worker and dedicated to whatever he does. I am the same way.

 

Now the other thing that is making this hard is my ds 4 is seeing how his brother acts and is trying to do the same thing. I will not stand for this.

 

Dh says that if he doesn't want to try to just send him back. Now I feel as if I have failed him in some way.

 

Help!!!!

 

Sorry for this being so long. I just don't have anyone else to talk to about this.

 

Honest to God, I think its an age thing. I have done a couple of things differently this year and it seems to be helping. We wake up earlier. School can be dreadful and feel so much like you've wasted your day when its afternoon time and your still working. I have noticed that she is much more "on-it" when we start earlier. I've been waking at 6 am. This way, by early afternoon, she's done and she can go outside to play with her friends. I also use a timer. I let her know that she's got this amount of time to finish and that seems to be working too. When it comes to reading I have learned that I need to assign her pages to read instead of telling her to go read for 1 hr. I came to realize she can actually handle 25 pages in 1 hr ... I was impressed by that! With math ... If he's doing that badly I would actually work with him with his work problem by problem. I would also put it very plainly ... If I don't see any improvements then no skateboarding for a week ( I noticed yours likes that alot by your siggy). Don't engage in arguments with him. You are the queen of your domain. You make your ruling, with all fairness of course, and if he argues about it you snap your fingers in a Z formation and let him know that MAMMA HAS SPOKEN!

[Kathleen in VA]

I really need to do something like that, maybe that will help. Yet, also then I run into the not effort thing, he would diddle all day and get nothing done. Then you did mention that no work, no food, gosh he would hate me then...

 

Joanna,

 

Let me try to gently say that you should not be concerned with how he feels about you. He is disrespecting you in a very huge way right now. That is not love either. God does not require children to love their parents - he requires that they obey and honor them, neither of which your son is doing now. I'm guessing he does not respect you because he can manipulate you. You may not achieve a cozy, affectionate kind of relationship with him right now - that is ok, really. He needs to learn to obey and respect you first. Later on, maybe even sooner than you might imagine, when you stand firm and do not allow him to rule you he will develop a new found respect for you which will blossom into a deep, sincere love for you. If he doesn't get to that point soon, he will come to it eventually and you will have saved him and yourself from some very severe heartaches in life.

 

I know this is hard - I am speaking from experience with ds19. We went through some very rough years and now he is dear and helpful and one of my best friends. Hang in there, stand your ground, be kind but firm and unyielding; be cheerful and sweet, but do not relent. This really is the way you can love him best. You must try to look past how everyone "feels" today and look forward to what might happen in ten or so years if you do not take the reins now.

 

I hope this does not sound harsh - I am truly trying to help you to reestablish your authority with your son and gain peace in your home. The warm affectionate feelings will come - it will just take time.

 

ETA: When I said God does not require that children love their parents, that isn't altogether accurate. He does not require that they have warm, "loving" feelings towards their parents. Obeying and honoring parents is the *way* children love their parents. That's really what I meant.

[Peri]

At our house, if you don't do schoolwork, you get to do housework (getting ready for that "ditch-digging" job) ;), and it's not the easy stuff either - it's cleaning the toilets and any other tedious, dirty job that needs doing. If you slack off on the housework, you don't eat. Really. Also, take away any privileges - no fun whatsoever. I'm guessing this may sound harsh to some, but this is really what love is. The real world will not be so kind.

 

ETA: All of this should be handled in a very matter-of-fact way - no yelling, no begging, no second chances, no emotion. Just lay it out in plain English and let him deal with the consequences.

:iagree:

[Peri]

I really need to do something like that, maybe that will help. Yet, also then I run into the not effort thing, he would diddle all day and get nothing done. Then you did mention that no work, no food, gosh he would hate me then...

 

He'll get over it. When he grows up and enters the real world and realizes how tough everything is and has learned to become a hard working member of society, he will be gratefull for what you have done for him.

[sweetTN]

:iagree:

[astrid]

Just like some of the ladies are telling you, everything shuts down until his attitude changes. Food, friends, activities, toys, games, everything.

 

I'm guessing this is nothing new, attitudes like this don't spring up over night. The longer they've been allowed to develop the harder they are to change.

 

Yup......."shock and awe," baby! Please don't take this the wrong way, but I was a dog trainer long before I had a kid, so I"ve always applied many of the same principles.......and the most important one I"ve found for both applications (dog and kid raising) is

 

NSTAAFL

 

No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Works wonders.

 

Good luck to you; I know how difficult it must be for you.

 

Astrid

[clwcain]

I was having this exact issue with my dd and my dh pointed out that I shouldn't be arguing with her.

 

:iagree:

 

To the OP, this is where I was headed with my question about your attitude towards your son.

 

Also, you may want to give thought to your actual attitude towards school, education, and home school. You may be starting with a hostile attitude that he's working with to his advantage.

 

If his goal is to do nothing, and that's the net result of your threats and arguments, then he's still achieving his objective.

 

At the end of the day, his answer to the question may simply be, "because I can [get away with doing nothing]."

 

But, don't despair. I sit in an office all day with uneducated folks who do nothing. They get paid better than I do. So, all the dire warnings about his penniless future are, I suspect, nonsense.

 

Ultimately, he won't learn anything if he doesn't want to. So you need to either figure out how to get him to want to engage, or throw in the towel and hand him off to the "experts".

 

Think about why you're homeschooling and why this fight is so important this minute. Are there state requirements you're worried about failing to satisfy? Health and safety issues? Your own pride?

 

And, perhaps its the POV of your post, but I'm compelled to ask (being one), "Where's dad?" Especially for an adolescent boy, his example, and his attitude towards academics is essential. Even if Dad "works hard" that may simply send a message that education isn't important.

 

Really, there's almost too much unknown for any of us to give you specific advice. But mine would boil down to 1) Take a time out; 2) Evaluate what you're trying to do (desired objective); 3) Determine the acceptable means of achieving your desired objective; 4) Get your husband more involved.

 

I can speak from experience: in a contest of wills with a teenage boy, you will lose.

 

FWIW

HTH

yada, yada, yada

;)

[Alaska Mom]

I cannot fight with my son anymore! I just cannot due it. I am tired and I mentally drained! I just cannot due this.

 

 

 

:iagree: - So don't. Period. End of story. Stop complaining, stop threatening and very simply, VERY, VERY calmly, make it HIS problem. Let me repeat that MAKE IT HIS problem, not yours, all of it.

 

I'm in a rush here for time, so I didn't read all the posts (so there's likely advice much better than mine)....but just had to reply, so for what it's worth, here goes:

 

I FEEL YOUR PAIN and I'm SO sorry for you sweetie. But this IS something you can fix. I would suggest looking here www.loveandlogic.com and look around for a dvd or book or something that "speaks to your heart" and order it - today. I've not read any books, but took a live course and it was outstanding. Every parent leaving a hospital with an infant should go home with a video from these guys.

 

It's all about teaching consequences and responsibility, not threatening. You put the choice on him - you give him two choices that YOU (mom) can live with: "You (child) do A, or B. That's your choice if you don't like those choices, the consequence is C". You walk away, and leave him in complete control of what HE will choose to do... and if A or B are not followed up on.....no surprise, no rage...simply and calmly give him C. Let him be the one that turns into a crazy, raging fool!!!!! That's (a small part of) our job as parents....to make our kids miserable!

 

The underlying premise of Love & Logic is: it's better to have YOU (mom or dad) make him miserable at a young age, and let HIM figure out how to deal with it, or deal with the consequences, than it is for him to have to learn this at say age 20 - possibly in a jail cell somewhere..... It's about interacting in a calm manner with him now, in a way where he can actually start processing in HIS own mind (not you doing it for him) what it means to be responsible and deal with consequences if you don't live up to what is expected of you (those expectations are dictated by by mom and dad now....or...by outside law enforcement later....you chose which one you want him to learn the lesson from). I know it's sounds like an extreme comparison, but it's a darn reality in today's society......

 

Just my, probably not so gentle thoughts here....but I'm in too big of a rush to be gentle and soft with my words.....I just saw your post, and new I had to reply....you CAN fix this have have wonderful kids where people say...."hum....how does she do that?"!

 

Hang in there :D !

[hsmom]

Ahh... The dad question. Well his father is a dead beat to state that nicely.

 

Dh has raised him since he was 3. Dh works away from home for a week and then is home a week. He doesn't act like this when he is home, nor does he act like this when he goes to his "fathers" house. This is how he acts to me and only me.

 

I am thankful for all of your help. I did sit down and tell him, not argue, no chance for debate that things are going to change and change now. I told him that going back to ps was not on the table, nor was doing nothing. I did tell him he will earn everything he does, it doesn't matter if it is tv, friends, or lunch. He will have to earn his way for now on. He was not pleased, but did take me serious (well for the moment) and went and got his math without being asked and did it. Then I told him before he gets to have lunch the dishes had to be done. Well the dishes are done. Now he did try to turn on the tv a minute ago and I told him no, he did not earn the right to watch it. He turned it off and walked away.

 

I know a lot of this is me, I need to learn to be firm and not a "push over"mom. This is very hard for me, but after reading your responses I believe if I don't do something now it is just going to get worse. Thank you.

[hsmom]

Thank you all for not being "soft" with your response. This situation requires upfront, straight forwardness.

[orangeblossom]

You go Mom!! Just stick with it and don't forget to balance the strictness with lots of love.

[hsmom]

You go Mom!! Just stick with it and don't forget to balance the strictness with lots of love.

 

Well so far he has done what he was suppose to do today, so in a little while we are going out to the lake to catch frogs.:D

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Well so far he has done what he was suppose to do today, so in a little while we are going out to the lake to catch frogs.:D

 

Awesome!!!

 

Just a warning- he probably will try to revert back to his old ways to test you, he might even appear worse, but stick to it because it sounds like you are doing great!

[hsmom]

Awesome!!!

 

Just a warning- he probably will try to revert back to his old ways to test you, he might even appear worse, but stick to it because it sounds like you are doing great!

 

 

Good to know. Thank you for your advice.

[LaMere Academy]

Well so far he has done what he was suppose to do today, so in a little while we are going out to the lake to catch frogs.:D

 

Sounds like fun!

I struggle with similar issues to, not to that extent though. I've also had to give my then 13 yr. old son a day of chores. All day. I told him if he didn't want to do school work, then he'd do another kind of work. My house got clean and he got the message. Hang in there.

[milovany]

I have told him over and over again, all I can do is give you to resources, opportunities, and some directions. I cannot make you smarter or learn that is up to you. You have to want this. You have to want a better life in your future for you. I cannot give this to you if you are not willing to put something into it.

 

 

I personally think there's a false assumption behind this paragraph (no offense, just my opinion!); and that assumption is that we do not by nature want to learn and grow. It seems like you're fighting so hard with him because you're operating from the belief that he doesn't have it in him to want to accomplish something worthwhile with his life.

 

But I think we DO have it in us from the beginning to want to learn and grow and master things. We do it when we learn to talk, we do it when we learn to read, we do it when we get potty trained, we do it when we learn to ride a bike, etc. If something is important to us and we discover its usefulness, we usually will put forth the effort to master it.

 

[*Caution, unschooler alert!* :001_smile:]So what's important to your son? What DOES interest him? What would he spend his days doing if he was allowed? Have you talked to his heart along these lines? Or have you come up with a curriculum that he is being required to follow? Can you tailor some lessons based on his interests? I know you've thought of some of these things, but there's a frustration there, and it's NOT just a behavioral issue -- there are some big heart things going on here. I agree with the others about working if they're not going to do schoolwork and not eating until chores are done, etc. BUT I also think it does a great deal of good to look at the heart behind the behavior and not just the behavior itself.

 

Another side comment: You mentioned doing chores before schoolwork and we used to struggle with that, too. The solution? Move chore time to another time of day! Get the kitchen cleaned up from breakfast and move right into table time. We do chore time at 4p.m., right before dh gets home. Some big benefits: We all start table time together right after breakfast, moving into chores in the late afternoon is a great transition into late afternoon/evening activities, and the house is CLEAN when dh walks in the door.

[hsmom]

I would move the chores to another time, but then I am one that will be distracted by the fact they are not done. I have a hard time concentrating when the world around me is a mess. So, in order for me to give him my all we get chores done in the morning, that way he has my undivided attention.

 

Also morning chores include, making his bed, taking out trash, feeding animals, you know the usual stuff. While he does this I clean the rest of the house.

[Heather in Neverland]

I would move the chores to another time, but then I am one that will be distracted by the fact they are not done. I have a hard time concentrating when the world around me is a mess. So, in order for me to give him my all we get chores done in the morning, that way he has my undivided attention.

 

Also morning chores include, making his bed, taking out trash, feeding animals, you know the usual stuff. While he does this I clean the rest of the house.

 

Those sound like reasonable morning chores. In our house, ds (10yo) does his chores BEFORE breakfast. My best friend asked me how I get my ds to make his bed and clean his room every morning. She says her son won't. My response? "Does he like to eat breakfast? Because my son does not get breakfast until his chores are done."

 

That's how they did it when I was growing up and how my mom had it too. Works for us!

 

I also agree with the others...here, all chores and lessons are complete before he gets free time. Work then play...that's our motto. He gets to make the choice: he can do his lessons in a reasonable amount of time and then have all the rest as free time or he can sit at the table until the lessons are done or it is bed time...it is up to him.

[kalanamak]

[quote name=NevadaRabbit;468925

Start with a few chores and a small dry-erase board or posterboard. List' date=' say, 4 morning chores. To have breakfast, those chores must be done (to Mom's approval). Make your bed, comb your hair, wash hands and face, set the table. Voila! Breakfast. No nagging, no begging yelling whining threatening etc. Tell him once, do your jobs. No jobs, no breakfast. He won't starve. And don't let him raid the pantry behind your back either - that's dishonest and warrants a less-than-desirable chore in response.

!

 

I agree, however, I would look at a few websites for symptoms of other things like oppositional defiant disorder, etc. There may be something more severe going on that should be handled more specifically. Undiagnosed dyslexia?

 

Just a thought.

[SonshineLearner]

Can your husband take him to work? Otherwise lots of physical labor with him having a good attitude every night (or morning) with Dad. Also, lots on the weekend. Physical Labor (hard) is VERY important to preteens and teens. If he won't do work, have dad wake him before he goes to work. (You have to be willing to make them work until they are exhausted.) My husband offered to do this with my daughter (9) and it's great. Dads can be great motivators, especially boys!

 

Carrie:-)

[hsmom]

No Dh works on the oil and gas rigs, so it would be too much to try to do that. There is just too much that could go wrong.

 

Great idea though...

[Alana in Canada]

Joanna--if it's any comfort to you--my son is 10, going on 11.

 

He has had the summer off--and he spent it watching TV and playing computer games.

 

We started school two days ago--and today I had to turn the TV off SIX times. Everytime there was a little "break" (while I was working with his sister) he'd run and turn it on. The rule is, no TV or computer until school is done. For my daughter it is the same--as well as no time with her friends. And that includes their "assigned reading" times of one hour for the 10 year old and 1/2 hour for the 8 year old.

 

Atually--my eight year old is the real scrapper in our house. I've taken to closing my eyes and covering my ears and sayng, "I will not argue with you. I don't want to nag you. You don't exist right now." --This is usually my strategy after she's been sent to bed. You aren't supposed to be here, therefore you aren't. It's really, really hard for me to break MY pattern of arguing--but I keep telling myself, "Somebody has to be the grown-up here." (Yes, I actually talk to myself like that!)

 

This thread has been wonderful for me. I really admire those of you who

1) stay calm

2) impose consequences like doing chores! (My son would dawdle through those, too)

3) not feed them. I think that's wonderful, actually, but I'm not quite so frustrated as to do that just yet.

 

But it is a learning process for the parent, too, isn't it?

And there will be days when you "give in" before you ought to. I read this somewhere once and it helps me: "You just have to be the one who holds out that one last time."

 

Hang in there, fellow trench mate. Just remember today. And go on from there.

Hugs.

[anissarobert]

Joanna-thank you for starting this thread. I have read some great ideas for my son.

[Christine]

I cannot fight with my son anymore! I just cannot due it. I am tired and I mentally drained! I just cannot due this.

 

I think you should state what you expect done and by when. Even to the point of writing it out and putting it on the frig.

 

Then, do the same for consequences. (If you don't do "xyz" then the consequence will be "abc".) And make them HARD. Like for every misdemeaner it's one priviledge taken away and one extra assignment (be it an extra chore or more school work).

 

Make sure you go over the above with him in advance.

 

Then, sock it to him.

 

"Oh, wow, honey you didn't get ready for the day by 0800. According to the consequences you just lost tv and have an extra writing assingment due by 1700. Bummer! Too bad you didn't consider that when you decided to goof off."

 

I've had to go through this with DS1 and DS2. I don't know if it's a male thing, as I don't have females to compare to, but I get pretty ruthless at this stage (9-12 is when it hit my older two).