Gifted Denial and Spouse Support

[EndOfOrdinary]

Previous to this year, I was in a fairly heavy case of gifted denial with my son. The rest of the world outside our family saw it, but due to having a very negative experience being PG in a small mill town my baggage was obstructing my objectivity. Anyway, this year the kid made such incredible strides I could no longer avoid the concept. I'm handling it fairly well at this point - I think - thanks to the support of this forum. We are doing ACT testing next year, as we have access and it is cost effective.

The issue is my husband. He still does not want to consider our son gifted. He is still totally convinced that it is merely that Ds is homeschooled which sets him apart. Anytime Ds begins to talk about some concept in Latin, or direct objects verses predicate nominatives and second accusatives my husband seems to feel threatened and he becomes hyper critical. My husband is an English teacher, so when the boy does something crazy in math or science it is apparently okay. Those are not subjects which my husband feels very strong in. The kid doesn't want to be a STEM major unfortunately. He is Humanities all the way.

I don't really know how to address it. Next year we are kicking up the rigor of our curriculum quite significantly at Ds' request. I am worried my husband is not going to handle this very well. As it stands we do no schoolwork or discussions of any kind when Dh is home. It isn't sustainable, or very realistic if I don't want my son to fell ashamed of his intelligence.

Does anyone have any experience here? Are your spouses supportive? How involved are they in educating your kids?

[8filltheheart]

Our situation is probably irrelevant to yours bc we have so much "life" going on when dh is home that school is just not something that is really talked about a lot. My dh is not actively involved In our homeschool in any way. It really isn't even an option since it is not unusual for him to leave for work around 6-630 and not get home until more than 12-13 hrs later.

He asks the occasional question. If he is home early enough for a family dinner, he'll ask them to share one neat thing they learned that day, etc. But, as far as what they are studying, what I have planned, etc, he is knows in general terms, but in day to day operation he is clueless. He knows more when they are in high school bc some things spill over into our daily lives while he is home.....like chemistry experiments on the weekend bc we couldn't fit them into our weekday days.

Fwiw, we never talk in terms of our kids being gifted. We simply talk about meeting their needs. My dh recognized that our ds was going to completely surpass his college math education from earning his chE degree while ds was in 11th grade. Ditto to dh and his physics background. Our dd surpassed both of us in lang in middle school. ;) But the only reaction either of us have is ok, let's make sure they are getting what they need. It isn't a big deal. We just keep plugging along.

I imagine if I only had 1 or 2 kids then I might have more time to think about it and I might make a bigger deal of it. But, I don't, so it really is just dealt with matter of factly and otherwise ignored except in school work being done and seeking camps or other activities to meet some of their social needs.

[Scarlett]

I don't see this as a gifted issue, but a parenting issue.

As our kids mature there is going to be all sorts of things that they equal us in or surpass us. How is your dh with other people? How is his relationship with your child otherwise?

[Crimson Wife]

{{{hugs}}} It is no fun dealing with a critical spouse. The issue I run into with my own DH is that he doesn't have a good sense of what is and what is not a reasonable expectation for young kids. So he'll get frustrated with the kids when they struggle with a topic that is way advanced for a student that age.

[Uff Da!]

Could you ask your Dh to "Please write your constructive criticisms down for the beginning of the next lesson.  Criticism is received better when given at the time of the lesson." ?  It might give your Dh time to think about what he wants to say and be a participant in the homeschooling process.

 

 

[Dmmetler]

Can you pass something off to him where he has a point of comparison?

 

For my DH, it wasn't that he was in denial that DD was gifted, it was that his scale of "average" is skewed to be in the range of extremely talented to start with, so his feeling was that DD was smart, but that she was only slightly ahead of the curve. That is, yes she was reading fluently at age 4, but most kids enter kindergarten reading novels, so reading college textbooks isn't that far off, right? Certainly not anything that entering K a year early and a nice little weekly GT program can't accommodate. It was a real eye-opener for him to realize just what the actual level of kids entering kindergarten, in a nice, suburban private school that required screening and rarely accepted children who weren't 5 several months before K began, was. It's gotten easier as she's gotten older, and the gap has grown (I do expect that part of the reason she's so far accelerated in some areas is homeschooling, so it's a double whammy).

 

He also will sometimes get on the "Well, yes, she's doing it, but does she understand it?" Especially with math and science. And it doesn't help that DD tends to shut down when quizzed, even by DH.

 

The single thing that helped most was to pass off math enrichment to DH, so that the two of them are now regularly doing an hour or so of math together at night, which has moved through number theory, combinatorics, problem solving, formal logic, famous unsolved problems, etc. That, more than anything else, has convinced him that "Yes, she DOES understand it" and "Yes, she really is demonstrating skills that most of the entry level college graduate programmers that you work with don't possess or understand".

 

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Our situation is probably irrelevant to yours bc we have so much "life" going on when dh is home that school is just not something that is really talked about a lot. My dh is not actively involved In our homeschool in any way. It really isn't even an option since it is not unusual for him to leave for work around 6-630 and not get home until more than 12-13 hrs later.

He asks the occasional question. If he is home early enough for a family dinner, he'll ask them to share one neat thing they learned that day, etc. But, as far as what they are studying, what I have planned, etc, he is knows in general terms, but in day to day operation he is clueless. He knows more when they are in high school bc some things spill over into our daily lives while he is home.....like chemistry experiments on the weekend bc we couldn't fit them into our weekday days.

Fwiw, we never talk in terms of our kids being gifted. We simply talk about meeting their needs. My dh recognized that our ds was going to completely surpass his college math education from earning his chE degree while ds was in 11th grade. Ditto to dh and his physics background. Our dd surpassed both of us in lang in middle school. ;) But the only reaction either of us have is ok, let's make sure they are getting what they need. It isn't a big deal. We just keep plugging along.

I imagine if I only had 1 or 2 kids then I might have more time to think about it and I might make a bigger deal of it. But, I don't, so it really is just dealt with matter of factly and otherwise ignored except in school work being done and seeking camps or other activities to meet some of their social needs.

 

I don't think it's really a numbers issue as much as personality, lifestyle, background, etc. I only have one, but have much the same experience as you in regards to the OP's question.  We talk in terms of needs and the term "gifted" rarely arises, for many reasons.  DH isn't involved in our day-to-day homeschool and is not home as much as many husbands are due to the nature of his work. He often asks, "What grade is she in again?"  ;)    However, he is usually the one that seeks out camps and other experiences for her to help meet social needs. We have lots going on and don't spend much time thinking about her being gifted. (We do spend time thinking about needs.) Making a big deal of her being gifted is something I try to avoid, as I see it as unnecessary.  I think it really boils down to something beyond numbers.

 

OP, what you mention would concern me greatly. I hope you are able to find a path that allows your son to grow and shine in his own way (just like every child should--"gifted" or not) without feeling stifled at home. :grouphug:

 

 

 

[Scarlett]

One point that may or may not apply. My son is not gifted, but he is very bright. He has had to learn that there is a time and place to express himself. For instance he is never to correct someone's grammar or otherwise embarrass someone on their lack of knowledge over any subject.

Is it possible your child needs to learn this skill as well?

[SKL]

I surpassed my dyslexic dad in reading and spelling by age 6.  It was never an issue in how we interacted with each other.

 

When you say your husband criticizes, is it constructive as in "that's not quite right, let me tell you the more precise answer," or is it in a discouraging/threatening tone?  If it's closer to the former, I think that is OK as long as your son can take constructive criticism (and if he can't, he needs to learn to).  If it's the latter, then I might ask your dh what he is feeling when this is happening.  Maybe brainstorm for some better way to share this common interest of the two.

 

I hear about people not being able to stand their kids' surpassing them, but I can't relate.  I'm over the moon when I see my kids easily doing something I found challenging.

 

How is your son bringing these things up?  Is he trying to show off, or asking a humble question?  If my child were constantly showing off her "superiority," I might point out that there's a lot more that she doesn't know, or that her understanding isn't mature.  Meanwhile I'd encourage her to be more of a team player than a solo act.

[quark]

:grouphug: I've sent you a PM. Take care.

[WinsomeCreek]

I realize that isn't a lot of information on the interaction to go on, but would it help to separate two issues mentioned: gifted denial and criticism? Since you deal with gifted denial you can understand how hard it can be to have a reasonable measuring stick and how easy it is to find excuses for exceptional behaviors. It sounds like you have grappled with (maybe still do) this and could really use some validation in the household. But maybe if you had more confidence then your dh's denial wouldn't phase you? (Just offering thoughts that may be totally off base) My dh works long hours, is minimally involved in school or running of the household, has minimal exposure to daily life. When he is around we either go about our business or he whisks in for brief fun. He really doesn't care about giftedness, just wants to know the kids are doing school. So I think there's some gifted denial, but not the criticism. On the other hand your post hit a nerve with me because it describes my experience with one of our music teachers. Marvelous artist level, Uni prof teacher is critical. I get upset almost every single lesson at how my boy gets reamed. He plays collegiate level and all he hears is criticism. Truly, I have come home near tears many times. Recently dh took the kid to lesson while I had another obligation and he came back with a *totally* different perspective. He was so pleased at the level of care, depth and attention to minutia. He saw nothing to be offended by. I was stunned and had to take another look at my own reactions. Your post makes me wonder if your dh isn't so much in gifted denial, rather he has higher expectations where he is knowledgable. Is it possible to say directly to him that you would like for him to listen to your ds and find one positive comment to say? I can't do this with teacher, but I have used the direct 'you don't need to know why- just do this' approach with dh. On the other hand I'm curious if this even bothers your ds.

Feeling threatened by being passed by the kid is another whole thing. But I think the interactions you describe can have other explanations.

Sorry if the above is rambling... Haven't had coffee yet.

[Black-eyed Suzan]

:grouphug:  We don't struggle with this at our house, but I can see how stressful it would be.

 

About the gifted denial, it seems to me that IQ testing would be the only way to alleviate this, but I can also believe that a determined person could even discount that. And my understanding is that the ACT is an achievement test, so your son's performance could still be attributed to homeschooling. But honestly and gently, as long as your son's needs are being met, does it matter who believes he is gifted? I say this as a person who still sometimes struggles with impostor syndrome and sometimes projects it on her children, too.

 

Thoughts I had about the criticism: my father is the type who is always pushing his kids for more achievement. It was not enough for me to get an A, I had to be the best in the class. I see him interact the same way with my brother, even now when my brother is an adult.  When an achievement is presented to him, my father sees that as an opportunity to motivate his child to do more/improve/etc. He rarely praises, and when he does it is usually mentioned to someone else, not directly to his child. His behavior feels like criticism (and I don't think it is a healthy way to communicate), but I actually don't think that is his intent. I think he doesn't want his children to rest on their laurels. Could something similar be happening with your husband? Could it be that he is criticizing more in his area of expertise just because he knows more about that subject? Could he be thinking he is helping and not realizing that it is coming across as criticism?

 

No matter what the cause, if this was happening in my home now, I would talk to my husband in a very non-threatening, non-confrontational way about my view of his behavior toward our son.

 

:grouphug: 

[EndOfOrdinary]

Fwiw, we never talk in terms of our kids being gifted. We simply talk about meeting their needs.

 

We don't talk much about Ds being gifted. I feel like it is a loaded term. It does come up with issues of asynchronous learning, Ds' avoidance of writing, and trying to find a peer group. Not that such concerns can be avoided, but more that these are struggles many gifted kids have.


 

I don't see this as a gifted issue, but a parenting issue.
As our kids mature there is going to be all sorts of things that they equal us in or surpass us. How is your dh with other people? How is his relationship with your child otherwise?

  

When I really thought about these questions, it occurred to me that the conflict seems to also occur anytime Dh perceives his authority to be questioned. He gets extremely defensive immediately and lashes out. As a Southern, white male growing up in a military family, he believes his maleness makes him grand-master of our household. He also works in an extremely authoritative position and believes very strongly in the cultural hierarchy of authority. I chalked much of the social conflicts between Dh and Ds to the rising testosterone levels as we approach puberty years. However, this could all be related to the idea that my husband is having a very hard time feeling authoritative in our homeschool like he always has as a teacher in his classroom. It might help to find a specific subject he can help DS in that would allow him to feel more like an instructor.

Do recognize that individual instruction can proceed at a faster place than group, so naturally he is ahead just from that alone.

[i] I kept hoping this was the case. I mean one-on-one instruction in an individualized environment of course you would be ahead, right? Only, he isn't just a little ahead. He is quite significantly ahead (like a handful of years) and thinks about concepts in fantastical ways.

[Arcadia]

 
However, this could all be related to the idea that my husband is having a very hard time feeling authoritative in our homeschool like he always has as a teacher in his classroom. It might help to find a specific subject he can help DS in that would allow him to feel more like an instructor.

 

:grouphug:

 

My dad is a retired public school teacher brought up in a traditional patriarchal style.  I surpassed him on his teaching subject when I was around 11. The "gifted" label ironically help my dad accept that I would surpass him in many areas.  My dad is great at woodwork though and taught me and my brother carpentry.  

My hubby thinks our kids are advanced because we school at home. He is very laid back neutral kind of person and if I ask for specific help from him I get it. 

[EndOfOrdinary]

{{{hugs}}} It is no fun dealing with a critical spouse. The issue I run into with my own DH is that he doesn't have a good sense of what is and what is not a reasonable expectation for young kids.

  

Can you pass something off to him where he has a point of comparison?
 
For my DH, it wasn't that he was in denial that DD was gifted, it was that his scale of "average" is skewed to be in the range of extremely talented to start with, so his feeling was that DD was smart, but that she was only slightly ahead of the curve. That is, yes she was reading fluently at age 4, but most kids enter kindergarten reading novels, so reading college textbooks isn't that far off, right? Certainly not anything that entering K a year early and a nice little weekly GT program can't accommodate.

I think there is a lot of this. The students my husband teaches are admittedly low. They are at risk and have so much blowing up in their world's the point is just to get their butts in seats and across the stage for graduation alive. He is fantastic at that, but it doesn't help his view of normalcy. If our son can surpass them, it can still be blown off since he is not struggling with existence. As far as he is concerned public school accommodates all kids and GT programs get so much funding they have to work.
 

He also will sometimes get on the "Well, yes, she's doing it, but does she understand it?" Especially with math and science. And it doesn't help that DD tends to shut down when quizzed, even by DH.
 
The single thing that helped most was to pass off math enrichment to DH, so that the two of them are now regularly doing an hour or so of math together at night, which has moved through number theory, combinatorics, problem solving, formal logic, famous unsolved problems, etc. That, more than anything else, has convinced him that "Yes, she DOES understand it" and "Yes, she really is demonstrating skills that most of the entry level college graduate programmers that you work with don't possess or understand".

I think I might pass off practicing speeches and presentations over to Dh if he will take it. He is far more emotionally patient when it comes to large presentations because they terrify him. Either that or maybe a lit discussion hour after dinner once a week? Something to let the questioning stop. Dh has actually accused me of cheating for Ds before because he is just so sure the boy could not have come up with some things on his own. Because there is so much incentive to cheat in homeschool, especially when the kid is so young that no one cares about portfolios or transcripts.

  

One point that may or may not apply. My son is not gifted, but he is very bright. He has had to learn that there is a time and place to express himself. For instance he is never to correct someone's grammar or otherwise embarrass someone on their lack of knowledge over any subject.
Is it possible your child needs to learn this skill as well?

 

The boy doesn't do this. Dh considers it quite a grand gesture that our son does not have to refer to us as Sir and Ma'am and that he can refer to Dh by his first name (definitely not Dad). There is no way Ds would openly question. It is more questions that Ds asks not realizing that Dh might not know. Last week DS asked for clarification on how to punctuate a sentence to differentiate an appositive from a second accusative or a predicate adjective. My husband got very ruffled up because, though he can correctly punctuate, he did not know how to explain it or which terms to use. It was not meant as a slight, in fact just the opposite. DS still assumes Dad knows everything you could possibly need to know about grammar.

 

When you say your husband criticizes, is it constructive as in "that's not quite right, let me tell you the more precise answer," or is it in a discouraging/threatening tone?  If it's closer to the former, I think that is OK as long as your son can take constructive criticism (and if he can't, he needs to learn to).  If it's the latter, then I might ask your dh what he is feeling when this is happening. 

I see it as critical, but it might not be if I was emotionally detached. At this point my son wants his father's approval quite desperately so I can see the comments hurt Ds. My husband does not like asynchrony. He thinks that a nine year old who can think great thoughts needs to be creating serious thesis papers. While my son has done this (because I was trying to please Dh) it was making him hate writing and be highly adverse to the mere thought of essays. I backed off, and things are beginning to look better. It is more comments like "Sure, he can analyze the literature, but if he can't write about it it doesn't matter." These are said in front of Ds. Or "it doesn't matter how smart you are if you can't prove it. Smart doesn't mean anything without a test." They strike me as bullying and a way to try and regain personal ego. Ds has often said he feels trapped. When he asked Dh to teach him creative writing, Dh told him to create a story with dialog. That was all the instruction given. When Ds didn't understand the specifics, I encouraged him to ask. Again, no specifics. So story was written. It wasn't fabulous, but not terrible. Dh listed a whole stack of things wrong with it which mainly pertained to nuance. Ds corrected, and really spent time trying to understand. More encouragement came to ask specific questions if he didn't understand, again no specifics offered. Story was handed back and Dh lit into it again with a stack of specific details. Ds finally asked Dh to teach him these specific details and talk about nuance before the assignment and Dh replied, "I can't teach you how to write. You are either good at it or you aren't." Kid was crushed and asked to stop lessons about three weeks later when the same issues continued to arise. I know Dh doesn't talk to his public school students this way, so I don't understand the malicious nature with our son. Dh did not have positive parental mentoring from his family, so maybe he doesn't realize how damaging he is being.

[EndOfOrdinary]

One thing you might ask your husband to do is go down and talk to one of the school psychs about the characteristics of students who are in stanine 9 on the cogat.

Good idea! Reaching out to the various resources in Dh's public district (much wealthier than our rural district) has been very helpful in the past. I'll have to look into it. Thank you.

[SKL]

  
..."it doesn't matter how smart you are if you can't prove it. Smart doesn't mean anything without a test."

 

Why the focus on "how smart he is"?  Why does it matter in the first place?  What matters is meeting your son's needs.  It is OK for your son to be asynchronous.  I think it isn't going to ever do him any good to keep fishing for compliments from his dad or anyone else.  I wouldn't set him up for stress/disappointment.  Let him do what he's interested in and let his dad find something they can do together that's rewarding for both of them.  Why does it have to be Language Arts?  Maybe something completely removed from "smart" stuff would be a better place to connect.  LIke a hands-on hobby - cooking, fishing, whatever.
 

[EndOfOrdinary]

It is not that my son is fishing for compliments. It is more that the criticisms seem to come directly related to his intelligence. It isn't a criticism that the child is lazy, sassy, unclean, hasn't made his bed, rude, etc, but always seems to center around the intellect. That is my main concern with the above examples. If criticisms were well rounded, because we are all broken and imperfect, that would be fine. However when they stem from only one aspect of ourselves, then we begin to feel shame.

I do not focus on being smart. I directly shy away from such statements because it can perpetuate perfectionism. I try to focus on perseverance, caring, thoroughness, and work ethic. I could care less about how smart my son is, but I do not want him denigrated for it either.

I don't know many people on earth that wouldn't want to feel like their parents are proud of them, or seek approval from the most significant figures in the child's life. It doesn't have to be LA that they connect over. It was just an example of ways Ds has attempted to bridge the gap by asking for assistance and to show the level of bizarre hostility my husband seems to have anytime he feels inadequate (though I am now wondering if it is an disconnect in his attempts to critique, or forgetting my son still has the emotions of a 9 year old by regardless of his vocabulary.)

My son is not the stoic, tough guy and has not had the emotional beatings of public school to harden him. I am thinking there might be a bit of bootstrapping going on, or potentially my husbands conservative values wanting to raise a boy who "can take it."

[Harriet Vane]

Honestly, your husband's reactions are so damaging I would probably take him entirely out of the realm of academic instruction for ds and encourage more non-academic "guy" stuff. I wouldn't make any big announcement; I would just deflect all of ds' questions or academic desires to my (your) realm.

[JeanM]

Have you done any testing? Maybe your dh would handle it better if he heard it from an outside professional?

 

I have to agree with Harriet Vane, in that your dh's reactions sound very damaging to your ds.

[ebunny]

First,  :grouphug: . 

 

Maybe it's time you had a long and matter of fact conversation with your DH regarding his parenting skills or lack thereof? IME, overly critical individuals cannot take criticism gracefully, so they become defensive and angry, which defeats the whole purpose.

 

IMHO, The only way to deal with such individuals, especially family members, is to explain the effects of their criticisms in as unemotional and patient manner as possible, Something on the lines of  "DS seeks your approval all the time, and when you say____, it hurts him. And over time, I am afraid his relationship with you will be damaged beyond repair" Or something to that effect.

 

You could also share some literature on super bright children who are also asynchronous, with him. As Maya Angelou says "When you know better, you do better". Hopefully, educating him on asynchrony will change his behavior towards DS....a good link to start with is http://www.sengifted.org/archives/articles/asynchronous-developmen

 

 

 

 

[SKL]

OK, so now I am seeing the comments as an awkward attempt by Dad to encourage.  Awkward because it is not appropriate to your son's emotional age.  Maybe introduce Dad to asynchronous development (in a positive way), and also give the LA (and all the cerebral stuff) a rest during family time.  You can tell your son that family time is not the time to dig deep into academics, as his dad deserves a rest from that after doing it all day.

[SKL]

By the way, my brother, who is almost certainly ASD, is also pretty awkward in communicating with his son.  It's not that he doesn't love his son fiercely.  He couldn't love the kid more, nor be more proud.  He is a lousy communicator with a good heart.  I think his son inherited this as well.

[MinivanMom]

My husband has a colleague whose husband was a tennis pro (world ranked in his day). When their children were born, her husband wasn't very interested in being a hands-on father so the mom got the kids involved in tennis as a way to draw him in. Huge mistake. The father was hyper-critical of the children and very nearly destroyed his relationship with them (much longer story than I'm sharing here). A similar situation played out with a friend of my sister who was a professional ballerina. She was hyper-critical of her daughter's ballet progress and eventually pulled her from dance completely. It worked out fine (daughter pursued music instead, attended a performing arts high school, & is now a music major in college), but the (otherwise nice) mother still talks about her daughter's time in dance with a level of derision that is way out of proportion considering her daughter only took a few classes when she was small.

 

My point is that sometimes people - who are otherwise kind and supportive - can be a tad crazy in their area of expertise. It takes a certain amount of talent, drive, and perfectionism to be the standout in any field, whether it's sports, arts, or academics. That's okay when they're pushing themselves, but can cross the line when you are pushing someone else, especially a child. What is hard-driving perfectionism when directed at your own performance can become hyper-critical and damaging when directed at your child's performance.

 

I would stop involving your husband in any of your homeschooling. I would also be very careful not to share any of your son's work in the humanities with your husband. If it comes up in spite of your efforts, I would gently say in the moment (for ds's benefit), "Husband, your expectations are not age appropriate. Ds is performing above grade level." Then I would change the subject. Later I would have a conversation about that specific moment, "Husband, your comments earlier were unnecessarily critical. When you criticize ds in that manner, you are hurting your relationship with him." Repeat as often as your husband criticizes ds. I would also work very hard to not let myself get drawn into any discussions about giftedness or any comparisons of ds to older students.

 

I agree with previous posters that it may help to direct dh and ds toward emotionally safe activities they can do together in the evening or on weekends. Perhaps it could be a sport or a new hobby. Maybe it could be as simple as a weekly family hike or Sunday brunch. It sounds like they need an safe neutral environment where they can connect emotionally.

[Crimson Wife]

When I really thought about these questions, it occurred to me that the conflict seems to also occur anytime Dh perceives his authority to be questioned. He gets extremely defensive immediately and lashes out. As a Southern, white male growing up in a military family, he believes his maleness makes him grand-master of our household. He also works in an extremely authoritative position and believes very strongly in the cultural hierarchy of authority. I chalked much of the social conflicts between Dh and Ds to the rising testosterone levels as we approach puberty years. However, this could all be related to the idea that my husband is having a very hard time feeling authoritative in our homeschool like he always has as a teacher in his classroom. It might help to find a specific subject he can help DS in that would allow him to feel more like an instructor.

DH grew up in a border state in a Scotch-Irish family. He is also a former military officer. So he and the kids definitely struggle a bit with issues of respect and learning how to disagree without talking back. Not with DS so much (he's still a little kid) but mostly with oldest DD and her hormonal-driven 'tween attitude.

[Crimson Wife]

IME, overly critical individuals cannot take criticism gracefully, so they become defensive and angry, which defeats the whole purpose.

Sometimes. But sometimes they are the type to not take criticism at all personally so they actually believe they are "helping" when they offer criticism to others. They simply don't understand why anyone would get upset by feedback and have little patience for tears or anger when their "help" is received poorly.

[WinsomeCreek]

This does sound damaging. Gifted kids are set apart more by rate of learning and ability to synthesize and innovate, moreso than by the stuff they know. Would you be able to send your dh, ds, and a more NT friend of your ds off to do something that none have done before? Learn a new skill or tackle a new sport or activity. This would give your dh a chance to have some perspective: to see how his son learns relative to both another kid and himself. The key would be to have it be a learning process from scratch for your dh as well. Sometimes there's no other way to get the point across than experience. Having another kid present can also help diffuse the inclination to be harsh. Alongside this it would be worth spending a few months providing literature on asynchronous behavior and dropping authoritative comments reinforcing the points of the literature. Just be absolute and matter of fact- and have the facts. I tend to forget, given my nonconfrontational and peacemaking nature, that it can take a forceful and authoritative voice to get through to with those used to stricter hierarchy.

[ebunny]

Sometimes. But sometimes they are the type to not take criticism at all personally so they actually believe they are "helping" when they offer criticism to others. They simply don't understand why anyone would get upset by feedback and have little patience for tears or anger when their "help" is received poorly.

 

I agree!

 

The tricky part is to find out how a over-critical person views 'criticism'. Does the criticism stem from a genuine intention of 'helping' or 'coaching'? Or does it stem from a place of insecurity with one's own abilities?

[raptor_dad]

Can you pass something off to him where he has a point of comparison?

 

For my DH, it wasn't that he was in denial that DD was gifted, it was that his scale of "average" is skewed to be in the range of extremely talented to start with, so his feeling was that DD was smart, but that she was only slightly ahead of the curve. That is, yes she was reading fluently at age 4, but most kids enter kindergarten reading novels, so reading college textbooks isn't that far off, right? Certainly not anything that entering K a year early and a nice little weekly GT program can't accommodate. It was a real eye-opener for him to realize just what the actual level of kids entering kindergarten, in a nice, suburban private school that required screening and rarely accepted children who weren't 5 several months before K began, was. It's gotten easier as she's gotten older, and the gap has grown (I do expect that part of the reason she's so far accelerated in some areas is homeschooling, so it's a double whammy).

 

I don't think this is the OP's issue, but this is still a critical point. A few months ago we were discussing math acceleration and my wife said she didn't see any signs that DS had uncommon needs. She then said that he seemed to be on the same path she followed. I then pointed out that she was on her state's ARML team... So yeah... the comparison window here is key.... I get it I spent my school years in the same cohort as Lenny Ng. From my experience and those of other people I know in the south... I believe there is a bumper crop of physicists and CS people that came out of this... Getting blown away in middle school tends to redirect your interests, especially if no one bothers to tell you that you are in the presence of a once in a generation talent.
 

[EndOfOrdinary]

Thank you to everyone who has commented. I have needed not only your support, but a different perspective on the issue from others not as emotionally involved.

Dh will take over practicing Ds' speeches with him. It isn't exactly English, but very high flash, and the boy is well versed in public speaking so it should run smoothly (I hope). When Ds succeeds, Dh will hopefully feel successful too. Other than that, they can just have ultra traditional male activities together. The spring run will be starting on April first, so they will be out fishing salmon together quite frequently.

We are going to have Ds take the ACT next year. It is an affordable option in our rural area. Though it is achievement based, the test is over five grade levels above my son's "normal" grade in school (he has already formally skipped one year to place him in fifth grade next year). I do not expect the kid to blow the test out of the water, but from the work he is already doing, it shouldn't be negative. It will hopefully be enough to wake his dad up a bit.

Thank you all again.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Just an quick update:

 

Through some other random twist of fate, I found a thread somewhere on the forums about Central Auditory Processing Disorder.  My husband had an LD when younger and still has some issues with letter flipping when he is tired, but he is now an English teacher with a master's degree.  I discarded the information - the IEP worked, he modifies, and works hard.  Now that I have seen a couple other threads, it has become really apparent that I had missed the largest issue - CAPD.  Dh is a classic case of many behaviors.

 

My son and I are talkers.  We talk to process.  We get excited when we talk.  We bounce off each other, ramble, link conversation, and in general discuss, discuss, discuss. It was not complicated when he was younger, but in the last year he has really taken some significant leaps in his schooling and interests.  I can't even imagine how exhausting/frustrating/and insecure this must make my husband.  He doesn't track the conversations well, and now the complexity has just exponentially increased.  Traditional schooling does not use discussion, they use tests and writing.  It is not that he is upset at my son being gifted, he is upset at the way we are presenting the information.  That doesn't excuse his outbursts or comments to Ds, but it definitely helps with an answer to the reason for the aggression and hostility.

 

We are still going to implement many of the suggestions others have given: create non-academic areas for Dh and Ds to interact, allow a lot more down time when Dh is home, remove the academic subjects from much of our conversations and family life. 

 

Thank you again!  I don't think our family would have survived many more years with the level of tension which was mounting, and I don't know if I would have ever been able to have found answers without these forums!

 

 

[Black-eyed Suzan]

I'm so happy to hear your update, EndofOrdinary! That has happened to me more than once - in researching/learning about issues my children have, I come across information that helps me and/or my husband. I wish you the best as you implement the knowledge.