articles on today's announcement about coming changes to SAT (spring 2016)

[Dmmetler]

I could see my DD playing with all the combinations of that density problem and forgetting that she's timed. She's been known to do that with virtual (and real, for that matter, but usually the materials are a limited commodity, while you can reset a virtual one as many times as you want) labs.

[Luanne]

Making it so they can take it on the computer is the only improvement I can see.  America is going to continue to fall and fail at academics because of things like this.  I think they should be improving the education here, not dumbing it down even more.

[regentrude]

Perhaps it's just around here, but our school has quite a few computers - definitely enough for the average number testing - and some schools (in our area) ensure every student has one.  Ensuring the internet works without a hitch could be problematic though.  It can sometimes get VERY slow - or even go offline.

 

How do they ensure every student has one?  I know some schools hand out portable devices to all their students - but you could not have them take the test on their own laptop with internet access, that would create huge security issues. You need to have school owned machines in the testing rooms that run precisely the testing software and nothing else at that time. Monitoring devices brought in from the outside will be extremely difficult.

 

[creekland]

How do they ensure every student has one?  I know some schools hand out portable devices to all their students - but you could not have them take the test on their own laptop with internet access, that would create huge security issues. You need to have school owned machines in the testing rooms that run precisely the testing software and nothing else at that time. Monitoring devices brought in from the outside will be extremely difficult.

 

This is true - they would have to actually block internet access... my brain wasn't thinking tonight!

 

Nonetheless, our school (and those I know of around us) would have enough computers for the average number of students testing.  I have no idea about other schools - esp in poor districts.

 

[Caroline]

This is true - they would have to actually block internet access... my brain wasn't thinking tonight!

 

Nonetheless, our school (and those I know of around us) would have enough computers for the average number of students testing.  I have no idea about other schools - esp in poor districts.

 

 

I live in an affluent district. Our SATs have hundreds of testers. Hundreds that are divided into many different rooms in the schools. We don't have that kind of computer infrastructure. And our computer labs have kids sitting right next to each other. It would be a test security nightmare.

[creekland]

I live in an affluent district. Our SATs have hundreds of testers. Hundreds that are divided into many different rooms in the schools. We don't have that kind of computer infrastructure. And our computer labs have kids sitting right next to each other. It would be a test security nightmare.

 

We have at least 200 computers (more if you count school laptops, but I'd be wary of batteries with those) at our school... so hundreds would be an issue, but we usually have less than 200 testers on any given test date.

 

Some state tests are already given on computer.  They get around the issue with kids sitting next to each other by never having the questions in the same order - and sometimes they also use different versions of the test.  If a student were to be busy looking at what their neighbor were doing, they'd not only be wasting their own time on their section, they also might never get the same question.

 

Already the SAT has different students working on different sections at the same time with the paper version if I recall correctly.

 

[wapiti]

Apparently, the ACT will still have paper exams, just as with the new SAT:

 

“We are moving to a computer-based version, but for the foreseeable future, we will also have the paper and pencil test as an option for schools that don’t have the technological capability,†said Jon Erickson, the president of ACT’s Education Division. “We will probably have the option for students to choose paper and pencil, as well.

 

I don't know how they'll go about the computer issue, but FWIW, our district (>60k total students) uses the MAP test on the computer, at least in elementary schools, 2x per year starting in grade 3.  For my kids' school, that's about 200 students.  It's a short test, 3 sections, each 20-30 min IIRC and not on the same day.  Classes take turns doing the test in the computer room (maybe 30 computers?) over a period of days.  The big difference, of course is that there isn't the huge motivation to cheat, but kids typically aren't working on the same problem at the same time, I believe.

 

[In The Great White North]

 

 

Nonetheless, our school (and those I know of around us) would have enough computers for the average number of students testing.  I have no idea about other schools - esp in poor districts.

 

 

 

 

I live in an affluent district. Our SATs have hundreds of testers. Hundreds that are divided into many different rooms in the schools. We don't have that kind of computer infrastructure. And our computer labs have kids sitting right next to each other. It would be a test security nightmare.

 

 

Our local school, which charges $17,000 tuition for out-of-district kids, has 24 computers in its one computer lab.  Hundreds of kids take the PSAT and SAT.  Maybe it's a good thing they do offer the ACT.

[creekland]

Our local school, which charges $17,000 tuition for out-of-district kids, has 24 computers in its one computer lab.  Hundreds of kids take the PSAT and SAT.  Maybe it's a good thing they do offer the ACT.

 

Wow!  The (public) high school I went to back in the 80s had more computers than that.  Of course, at that time some of the students (myself included) knew more about programming (at least aspects of it) than the teacher.  Our school was one of the first "test" schools with IBM - it helped that my dad worked at IBM with that program the year we spent in southern FL.  He volunteered our NY school for the program the following year (my junior year).  Never underestimate connections and networking.  :coolgleamA:  

 

Wow, that all brings back memories.  The internet was pay as you go then, so you put a ton in your cache, disconnected, then read through the pages (mostly academic of some sort) afterward.

 

We've (general) come a long way in a short period of time!

 

[Azalea]

I never even heard of the ACT when I was preparing to go to college.  It was all about the SAT.

Me too. After reading about all the changes to the SAT, I told my daughter she can take either test, I don't care. Of course she wants to take both...

[Haiku]

The kids and I heard something about this on the radio while we were driving yesterday. Dd12 said to me, "If everyone has to take the same test, but everyone goes to different schools, and some kids go to bad schools and some go to good schools, don't the kids from good schools look smarter if they do better on the test even if the kids at bad schools could have done better if they had gotten a better education? This doesn't seem very fair. Lots of people are good at lots of things and may be very smart even if it doesn't show up on a test."

 

Smart kid, that girl. ;)

[Crimson Wife]

How do they ensure every student has one?  I know some schools hand out portable devices to all their students - but you could not have them take the test on their own laptop with internet access, that would create huge security issues. You need to have school owned machines in the testing rooms that run precisely the testing software and nothing else at that time. Monitoring devices brought in from the outside will be extremely difficult.

There are computer testing centers where adults go to take the GRE and other standardized tests (I've been going to one in my area to take the stupid California teacher credentialing tests). I would imagine that these centers could make quite a bit of money renting out their facilities to schools that need to do standardized testing on computer. The cynic in me wonders if there is some sort of shady backroom deal between CB and the operator of these test centers (Pearson I think?)

[MBM]

The problem isn't just poor education, although that is part of it; the problems run much deeper and unless we understand and deal with those deeper problems, the schools cannot easily teach their students. Paul Tough does a good job explaining these issues in his first chapter in How Children Succeed (link is to Amazon). This is from the short Q&A at the Amazon site for his book:

 

Q. A lot of your reporting for this book was in low-income neighborhoods. Overall, what did you learn about kids growing up in poverty?

 

A. A lot of what we think we know about the effect of poverty on a child’s development is just plain wrong. It’s certainly indisputable that growing up in poverty is really hard on children. But the conventional wisdom is that the big problem for low-income kids is that they don’t get enough cognitive stimulation early on. In fact, what seems to have more of an effect is the chaotic environments that many low-income kids grow up in and the often stressful relationships they have with the adults around them. That makes a huge difference in how children’s brains develop, and scientists are now able to trace a direct route from those early negative experiences to later problems in school, health, and behavior.

 

The problem is that science isn’t yet reflected in the way we run our schools and operate our social safety net. And that’s a big part of why so many low-income kids don’t do well in school. We now know better than ever what kind of help they need to succeed in school. But very few schools are equipped to deliver that help

 

[Gratia271]

Sounds like they're dumbing down the test: 

fewer areas of math tested (no geometry? WTH?),

only easy vocabulary words

no guessing penalty.

 

I fail to see how this is "better".

The only positive I see is the no-calculator on some sections. They should make the entire thing no calculator.

 

The old essay was idiotic. I am not sure the new essay is better.

 

  :iagree:   How dumbed down do Americans need to become?  This is getting ridiculous. 

 

[Dmmetler]

The common core tests from the two big providers are both computer-based tests. The teachers in districts that are using them have a LOT of horror stories on the problems of testing more kids than you have computers in the window allowed, internet and hardware glitches causing major problems, and so on.

 

Having said that, the option of a computer test might be good for homeschoolers. I know most computerized tests remove the "only given on X dates and you have to find a place that is offering it" into "You can take this test at a school that's offering it on X date, or pay a fee to your local Prometric testing center", which makes it more doable. I'm in the heart of ACT and Duke TIPS country, but it was still far less of a problem for my DD to take the SCAT than the EXPLORE.  I'm honestly not sure if ANY school around here gives the SAT (as I said, we're in the heart of ACT country).

 

 

[snowbeltmom]

 

 

I'm honestly not sure if ANY school around here gives the SAT (as I said, we're in the heart of ACT country).

It is hard for me to imagine now, but I had never even heard of the SAT when I was in high school.  The only test any of us took was the ACT - and we took that test "cold."  Ahh, the good old days...

[maize]

Has this article been posted already? It fills out more of the background and reasoning behind the changes.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/09/magazine/the-story-behind-the-sat-overhaul.html?action=click&contentCollection=Magazine&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=Blogs

[Barbara H]

There are computer testing centers where adults go to take the GRE and other standardized tests (I've been going to one in my area to take the stupid California teacher credentialing tests). I would imagine that these centers could make quite a bit of money renting out their facilities to schools that need to do standardized testing on computer. The cynic in me wonders if there is some sort of shady backroom deal between CB and the operator of these test centers (Pearson I think?)

 

One challenge with this would be that the Prometric test centers (owned by ETS) are often pretty small. Students scheduling MCAT and GRE are often surprised to find it can take a month to get a slot on the schedule at busy times of the year so it would take quite a bit of expansion.

 

It does seem like it will be a big technical challenge to eventually get all these tests computer for all students.

[Heather in WI]

I just stumbled across this article: The New SAT Doesn’t Come Close to the World’s Best Tests

 

I know we've talked a lot about the Finnish education system, but I'd never heard that:

 

Finland’s test is far more challenging than the SAT (and the ACT) in almost every other way — even in sheer duration. Finland is famous for having very few standardized tests (high school students take a lot of tests, but the tests are designed by their teachers—not a distant testing corporation). But during their senior year, Finnish kids do take one giant standardized test known as the Matura — the mother of all tests. This test lasts about 50 hours, stretched out over three long weeks. By contrast, the new SAT will last 3 hours and 50 minutes with the optional essay (or 3 hours without).

 

And in Finland, the essay is not optional. To the contrary, students spend a day writing short essays in response to several texts over the course of six hours. The next day, they choose one topic out of 14 options and write one long essay — over the course of another six hours. One recent topic was, “Why is it difficult to achieve peace in the Middle East?†That’s 12 hours of writing — compared to 50 minutes (or zero, for those who choose not to do the essay) on the new SAT.

 

Wow!

 

Has anyone read the above author's  book The Smartest Kids in the World—and How They Got That Way?  I think it looks intriguing.

[maize]

Most European countries have some form of cumulative testing at the end of high school, with the results determining both high school graduation and college entrance. The exams tend to be rigorous and lean towards essays and free response questions and away from multiple choice (multiple choice exists only because it is easy for a computer to grade, not because it is a particularly effective testing strategy).

 

I don't know about Finland in particular, but I believe most of the countries with rigorous high school exit exams also have educational options that do not involve college prep high school but allow students to prepare themselves to enter the workforce directly through vocational training and apprenticeships. Not every student is expected to take and pass the rigorous exams.

[regentrude]

I don't know about Finland in particular, but I believe most of the countries with rigorous high school exit exams also have educational options that do not involve college prep high school but allow students to prepare themselves to enter the workforce directly through vocational training and apprenticeships. Not every student is expected to take and pass the rigorous exams.

 

Yes, that is correct for Germany. About 50% of the students attend the college prep track, the other half graduate high school after 10th grade and either continues in vocational  training, trade school, or adds a three year program to achieve admission to university.

 

[regentrude]

 

I just stumbled across this article: The New SAT Doesn’t Come Close to the World’s Best Tests

 

I know we've talked a lot about the Finnish education system, but I'd never heard that:

 

Finland’s test is far more challenging than the SAT (and the ACT) in almost every other way — even in sheer duration. Finland is famous for having very few standardized tests (high school students take a lot of tests, but the tests are designed by their teachers—not a distant testing corporation). But during their senior year, Finnish kids do take one giant standardized test known as the Matura — the mother of all tests. This test lasts about 50 hours, stretched out over three long weeks. By contrast, the new SAT will last 3 hours and 50 minutes with the optional essay (or 3 hours without).

 

And in Finland, the essay is not optional. To the contrary, students spend a day writing short essays in response to several texts over the course of six hours. The next day, they choose one topic out of 14 options and write one long essay — over the course of another six hours. One recent topic was, “Why is it difficult to achieve peace in the Middle East?†That’s 12 hours of writing — compared to 50 minutes (or zero, for those who choose not to do the essay) on the new SAT.

 

Wow!

 

That is pretty much the norm in other countries too - BUT it is completely different from the SAT and ACT.

In Germany, all college bound students will have to take high school finals in several subjects; math, German, a foreign language and a science are mandatory. There will be several written and several oral examinations, spread out over two or three weeks: two written exams of duration 4-5 hours each, one written exam of duration 3-4 hours, two oral exams.

The exams are completely different - there is NO multiple choice, but free response questions, short essays, long essays in literature and languages, oral presentation in foreign languages. There is a lot more content, and gimmicky tricks do not play a role. You can't hack those through a test prep course; it tests cumulative knowledge you have acquired over several years of education. These tests are an indication of actual content knowledge, not of test taking skills.

[Haiku]

These tests are an indication of actual content knowledge, not of test taking skills.

 

As someone who used to write standardized test questions, I have aways said that standardized tests test how well someone took a test on that day, not how much someone knows.