Need help w/ profoundly dyslexic 12 year old (VERY long & detailed)

[queen620]

I am in desperate need of help, advice and any prayers would be appreciated.   Here is a quick background.   I am a mom of 6- 5 boys ages almost 14, 12, almost 9, 4(probably autistic-- slow process getting official diagnosis),2 year old and 9 month old baby girl.  â€¨â€¨I've homeschool all the way through.  I used Sonlight for 5 years.  LOVED Sonlight until about a year ago when I had such an age gap w/ my older 3 and so many learning struggles it became too parent intensive.   I have slowly been moving away from Sonlight,  ï¿¼  because I needed  to be able to spend more time focusing on teaching my 12 year old to read.   â€¨â€¨Now the rest of the family to help people understand why I'm so frazzled...


**DS #1 -13 year old is a typical kid.  He loves to read and learn.  He was getting lost in the shuffle w/ DS #2 --12 year old w/ learning issues.   I started to move him onto more individual work.   This year he is entirely self driven and seems to like it.   He goes to an IEW writing class which has been amazing in helping with his reluctance to write.    He isn't a fan of me switching him from Sonlight for history to Christian Light.   I'll be switching him either to Biblioplan or back to Sonlight.  He loves the living book curricula.  I put him in PS at the same time I put my 8 year old in school. I didn't want my 8 year old to think we were mad at him and he is rather quiet and sensitive.   I also felt DS #1 needed a rude awakening to how good homeschooling was.   He is a good kid, who has really struggled with laziness this year.   I think he learned the lesson and he asked to go back to homeschooling.  After a lot of open discussions we agreed.  â€¨â€¨

**DS #2  I started to think something was wrong when he was 8 and things weren't clicking.   But I asked so many people and the generic answer was, "boys take longer, girls mature faster” or “he’ll catch up.”  And answer to that end.   So we changed curricula from Sonlight to 100 easy lessons (that was painful) to Reading Reflex.   Finally, I new we needed more.  I found a WONDERFUL Barton method tutor in my city.   He started seeing her when he was 11.  He sees her twice a week and has been for nearly 20 months. He is WAY behind in math. He should be in 6th grade, but struggles to do math at a fourth grade level. It is getting harder b/c there is so much more memorizing that he needs to do. I use TT for his math. 




**DS #3 is 8 almost 9.  He seems to be following DS #2 in being dyslexic.   We were using 100 easy lessons (which Ds #1 did GREAT with), Sonlight & had just started using All About Reading in August of 2013.   I abruptly decided to put him in our local public school b/c his needs were falling through the cracks.   It wasn't my first choice, but I live in a great school district.  I am so glad to say he is getting pulled from his class for SEVEN, 30 minute sessions in a week.  The school is also doing more testing, concurrent w/ his current reading help & math help.  I will have some more meetings next month to get a more thorough IEP in place.   DS #3 is in "3rd" grade age wise, but no where near grade level.  He is falling way behind in math.    He isn't too happy with being in PS, but I'm out of options and I don't want him falling through the cracks at home.   My school district is using FUNDATIONS which from what I can tell is based on Wilson's OG method.   



**DS # 4 is 4 1/2 years old.  He is developmentally delayed.  He has been recieving all sorts of services for 2 1/2 years.  He is currently in a DD preK class in my school district.  I think he probably has ASD, but getting a professional to do the diagnosis has been a nightmare.  Anyway he does great in school and is talking more and making more word approximations.   On the flip side he has a hard time at home.   Our evenings can be really difficult.  He seems to work so hard at home that he has nothing left to keep it together at home.   :(   



**DS #5 is 2 1/2 years old.  He is fun and caring and loves his brothers and his sister.  He is the typical 2 year old who talks a lot and is BUSY BUSY BUSY.  So basically he is always on the go!  



** DD is 9 months old and she is as sweet as can be.  she is a dream baby who naps regularly and just loves being around us.    



So now onto the real issue what to do about my 12 year old.   We have been seeing his Barton Method tutor for 20 months @ 2 times a week.    So far he is only up to Level 4, lesson 10 or so, but she frequently has to go way back for constant review. 
 It took him a year to move from level 3/lesson 10 to level 4/lesson 10. 
 I had a real heart to heart w/ her before Christmas.  She is a WONDERFUL lady.  She is so kind and caring.  She is also very good at what she does.  She told me that she is starting to think she isn't doing much to help him.  He is making progress, but it is so slow I might be better off to buy the Barton levels and do it myself.  She said many months she feels bad taking my $$ ($40 a visit) b/c he isn't progressing typically.   She feels he is PROFOUNDLY dyslexic, as in it will have an impact on his entire life.    She went so far as to suggest looking into a private school in our city that specializes in EC type kids.  ($21,000 + fees yearly tuition)
 I just don't know what to say.  I am so upset.  I really felt like we would spend our time seeing her,  and things would get better. It would be OK, that  he was behind, b/c once he could read he would be able to read enough and move forward.   She feels it could take YEARS for him to move through on up through level 8.   She also felt there might be more going on than just the ADD contributing to the dyslexia.

 â€¨â€¨He is on ADD medicine, mainly b/c he was having such a hard time focusing for her we decided to try that.  It hasn't helped much.  The more I've learned about ADD is seems if it isn't actually ADD the medicine won't do much to help.   The more I've been learning about Autism & Sensory Processing Disorder-- learning about while finding more out for my 4 year old-- I'm pretty sure he has SPD.   Reading several books about SPD I am shocked at the categories that describe him.  Things have also gotten really bad behavior wise and emotionally.  I'm pretty sure he is hitting puberty which is really affecting him.   He is moody, aggressive, and temperamental.    He was all of those things before, but this is a NEW level.  

I put the 8 year old in school, b/c I don't have the $$ right now for him to see our tutor. The tutor evaluated my 8 year old and felt he also needed some speech therapy before he would be ready for reading.     â€¨â€¨So I'm out of steam.

 Currently my daily schedule includes nearly 2 1/2 hours a day taking 2 kids to and from school as the bus isn’t a good option for my non-verbal 4 year old. His school is out of my district. And if i have to pick him up it doesn’t add much time to drive my 3rd grader.  I also drive twice a week to 12 year old's reading tutor.  She lives 30 minutes from my house-- so that is a HUGE interruption.  
Take oldest kid to writing class once a week-- 30 minutes from my house.



I'm not sure what kind of advice or help I'm looking for.  I think I want to buy the Barton system and do it myself, but I do want to take him once a week to see the reading tutor.   I'm not sure what to do about the other issues.   The private school's tuition is $21,000+ a year.  We don't have that kind of money.  So I don't really see that as an option. From what I can tell there are tax credits, but I have to pay up front and then file it with my taxes. I haven't had an official evaluation done, but I do think that it is time to pursue more serious testing to rule out it being more than just dyslexia.    I do have a few calls out to get going on that process

Any thing would be helpful.   I'm one exhausted, upset & frustrated mama.

[PeterPan]

:grouphug:   That's a lot!

 

I don't have anything brilliant to add, but I can do the easy comments.  On your ds' speech, have you rules out apraxia?  I've read that in 50% of spectrum cases it's apraxia behind the speech problem, and apraxia responds best to the therapy PROMPT.  Look it up.  My ds has verbal apraxia but is not on the spectrum, and that's the therapy we get.  

 

Yes, it sounds like you need to go ahead and buy Barton, sorry.  Maybe space out the tutoring sessions to once a month to save money?  Then use the money you save that way to pay someone else to do some of that driving.

 

Yes, evals for the dc who hasn't had them would be good.

 

Have you had their vision checked by a developmental optometrist?  Have they had OT evals yet?  When we did our OT eval, they found the low tone.  What I've read since then gives this path of dots from sensory to low tone to mitochondrial disorders to developmental vision problems.  So there's the *possibility* that there's a developmental vision problem that could be worked on that would help the reading.  You'd go to COVD to find a developmental optometrist.

[OneStepAtATime]

Yes to what OhElizabeth said.  And as for Barton, I ended up much preferring doing it at home.  I could pace it to the needs of the kids, instead of being stuck with a tutor schedule.  I found that when we were doing it for only about 30 minutes a day (sometimes less), but doing it every week day, even sometimes on Saturday, and in between Levels we reviewed, played the games, etc. then did the post tests, then reviewed whatever came up as still glitchy in the post tests, and DID NOT take more than 2 weeks of between levels, things went much, much better.  However, it sounds like there may very well be other issues going on with your child.  Without knowing what those issues might be, it could be hard to determine whether Barton will really help.  If you could determine if there are unusual vision issues (many don't show up in a standard vision screening) or apraxia, etc. then you would be in a better position to help.  

 

I will mention some other advantages to owning Barton, though:  1.

you can use it with your other kids, even NT kids if you need to, just move the NT kids through faster with less review

2.  the Levels resell for a really high amount.  

3. You can take it with on trips.  

4. You aren't paying by the hour when your child needs significant review of areas already covered.  

5. You don't have to worry about your child missing a session because of bad weather or a lack of transportation.

6.  Also, later on you could even offer tutoring yourself to other families for extra money, instead of reselling (when things aren't so crazy).

 

Big hugs and best wishes to you and your family.  I know this is all a bit overwhelming.  Cudos for reaching out and trying to find a better path.  I hope you can find some answers that help.

[queen620]

Thanks for all the ideas. I've never really worried about his vision, but his reading tutor did
suggest a more thorough vision evaluation. I have googled "PROMPT" and pinned it to read more about.

I posted on Sonlights forums and several people suggested Verticy online.
I just started looking at the website & catalogue it looks very interesting.

[OneStepAtATime]

Thanks for all the ideas. I've never really worried about his vision, but his reading tutor did
suggest a more thorough vision evaluation. I have googled "PROMPT" and pinned it to read more about.

I posted on Sonlights forums and several people suggested Verticy online.
I just started looking at the website & catalogue it looks very interesting.

Again, with regard to vision, certain issues would NOT show up in a normal vision screening at all unless the screener were trained to look for those issues and you asked them to.   These are not vision issues that would easily be noticeable in day to day life, but which may be causing significant problems with reading, among other things. Going to a Developmental Optometrist, preferrably one off of the COVD list, could confirm whether there were unusual vision issues.  If you read old posts, you will find many parents who did not believe there were vision issues, and assumed their child only had dyslexia, only to find that there were definitely unusual vision issues and once those were dealt with, the dyslexia appearing issues were far less or even, in a few instances went away entirely.

[Lecka]

Welcome :)

 

I also have one with dyslexia, one with autism. 

 

I think Level 4 Barton is nothing shabby -- that is an achievement, whatever the age he is.  Even if he is going slower -- he is getting it.  Does the tutor think that more time spent would yield faster progress?  If so -- working with him at home might really help. 

 

I am an after-schooler, my older son is 8 and my younger son is 5 and in special needs pre-school.  He also has 12 hours of ABA at home.  It took a long time for him to get diagnosed, too, there was a long waiting list.  He was having difficult evenings last year, but this year it has been a lot easier for him.  I put my older son in after-school care for several months last year, b/c my younger son had such low reserves at 4:00 p.m.  Anyway -- it has gotten a lot better. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Thanks for all the ideas. I've never really worried about his vision, but his reading tutor did
suggest a more thorough vision evaluation. I have googled "PROMPT" and pinned it to read more about.

I posted on Sonlights forums and several people suggested Verticy online.
I just started looking at the website & catalogue it looks very interesting.

And I don't want to discourage you at all, but I just can't see Verticy helping tremendously if an extended period with a Barton trained tutor is not moving him forward much.  If you read reviews from unbiased sources, some have had great  success with Verticy, but many have not.  I looked at this for my own kids at one point but decided the cons from reviewers seemed to outweigh the pros, at least for our family.  At the same time, if he is really not wanting to take instruction from you, then maybe this would be a possibility.....Also, I know some are able to get this for free in their state, so if you could then it might be worth giving it a try.  If not, and you haven't had formal assessments, I think I would put my money into assessments first, since Verticy is pricey (or used to be).

 

What assessments have you had and through whom?  How did you know he was dyslexic?  Maybe you mentioned it in your original post and I missed it.  If so, I apologize.

[queen620]

What assessments have you had and through whom?  How did you know he was dyslexic?  Maybe you mentioned it in your original post and I missed it.  If so, I apologize.

My 12 year old hasn't had any formal evaluations. He has always been home
schooled and I honestly naively thought we would do our time w/ the tutor and then we would be done. There would be no need to find anything out, b/c well...he was dyslexic. Our Barton tutor doesNOT diagnose, but that being said she is very
good at what she does and felt he was dyslexic. She didn't need a "formal"
diagnosis to start tutoring him, so we didn't do any.

I do have a call in to a Dr. that my reading tutor used when getting a evaluation done for her son. She felt he was very very thorough. Sorry don't remember
what kind of dr. he is.

Very glad to hear the more neutral opinion on Verticy. I had never heard of it. Of course it looks promising, but right now I'd buy snake oil if I thought it
would fix anything!

[imagine.more]

I think i would get a neuropsychological evaluation done. Then you could have some hard evidence to pinpoint the root of the problems because while it's likely dyslexia there could be more and without an evaluation you're kind of groping in the dark for answers. We just got our DD's woodcock-johnson test results and it was very interesting to see where she was stronger and weaker. And a neuropsychologist can get even deeper than that and help in interpreting those test results with you. 

 

((hugs)) I would be extremely overwhelmed too. Actually, I would be hiding in the closet rocking back and forth, lol! So if you're like functioning day-to-day then you're doing pretty darn well imo ;)  

 

I'm currently considering getting trained in Orton-Gillingham as well so I also think doing the tutoring at home might be useful, especially since you can then re-use the knowledge and materials with your younger children who show signs of dyslexia or learning delays. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Welcome :)

 

I also have one with dyslexia, one with autism. 

 

I think Level 4 Barton is nothing shabby -- that is an achievement, whatever the age he is.  Even if he is going slower -- he is getting it.  Does the tutor think that more time spent would yield faster progress?  If so -- working with him at home might really help. 

 

I am an after-schooler, my older son is 8 and my younger son is 5 and in special needs pre-school.  He also has 12 hours of ABA at home.  It took a long time for him to get diagnosed, too, there was a long waiting list.  He was having difficult evenings last year, but this year it has been a lot easier for him.  I put my older son in after-school care for several months last year, b/c my younger son had such low reserves at 4:00 p.m.  Anyway -- it has gotten a lot better. 

Actually, Lecka brings up a good point.  Just getting the kids through Level 3 was no small feat for me.  If he is on lesson 10 of Level 4, that seems pretty darn good unless the tutor feels that he is not internalizing any of the rules.  What is the reason for the concern, specifically?  Why, specifically, does the tutor feel that he is not doing very well, in other words?  Have you seen any improvement at home in reading and spelling?

 

One side note, this system would replace all other Language Arts through Level 4.  Are you using other language arts programs at home?  That might be confusing.

 

My 12 year old hasn't had any formal evaluations. He has always been home
schooled and I honestly naively thought we would do our time w/ the tutor and then we would be done. There would be no need to find anything out, b/c well...he was dyslexic. Our Barton tutor doesNOT diagnose, but that being said she is very
good at what she does and felt he was dyslexic. She didn't need a "formal"
diagnosis to start tutoring him, so we didn't do any.

I do have a call in to a Dr. that my reading tutor used when getting a evaluation done for her son. She felt he was very very thorough. Sorry don't remember
what kind of dr. he is.

Very glad to hear the more neutral opinion on Verticy. I had never heard of it. Of course it looks promising, but right now I'd buy snake oil if I thought it
would fix anything!

 

I fully understand your feelings.  Honestly, you have a really full plate.  I admire your tenacity.

 

I think i would get a neuropsychological evaluation done. Then you could have some hard evidence to pinpoint the root of the problems because while it's likely dyslexia there could be more and without an evaluation you're kind of groping in the dark for answers. We just got our DD's woodcock-johnson test results and it was very interesting to see where she was stronger and weaker. And a neuropsychologist can get even deeper than that and help in interpreting those test results with you. 

 

((hugs)) I would be extremely overwhelmed too. Actually, I would be hiding in the closet rocking back and forth, lol! So if you're like functioning day-to-day then you're doing pretty darn well imo ;)

 

I'm currently considering getting trained in Orton-Gillingham as well so I also think doing the tutoring at home might be useful, especially since you can then re-use the knowledge and materials with your younger children who show signs of dyslexia or learning delays. 

 

imagine.more is right, without a full picture of what is going on, you could spend years spinning wheels trying to help and not actually address the real issues.  And he may have a lot of untapped strengths that could help him if those strengths were known.  So many here can attest to those scenarios.  A tutor would almost certainly not have the training and expertise to understand all of the various issues that could be tripping up your son or the various underlying strengths that might be masking his real issues. I realize that this may seem overwhelming (I would certainly feel that way in your situation, and I did, once upon a time.) You ought to at least consider getting an evaluation through a neuro-psychologist.  And a developmental optometrist if you can.  It may give you real answers with concrete paths to follow, instead of guessing and throwing money at hoped for solutions.  

 

Big hugs of support.  So sorry you are having to juggle so much.

[PeterPan]

Thanks for all the ideas. I've never really worried about his vision, but his reading tutor did
suggest a more thorough vision evaluation. I have googled "PROMPT" and pinned it to read more about.

I posted on Sonlights forums and several people suggested Verticy online.
I just started looking at the website & catalogue it looks very interesting.

Uh, if the tutor said you need to get his eyes checked, you need to.  You don't yet realize the type of eye problems we're talking about.  There are things a regular optometrist TOTALLY MISSES that a developmental optometrist will catch.  My dd would never sound out words for reading and instead learned to read the words taking them in whole on flashcards after we spelled through them with SWR.  She spontaneously started sounding out on her own after 1-2 months of VT at age 12.  Seriously, it can make THAT big a difference, that quickly.

 

If you've never had formal evals for this ds 12, I'm sorry but you're missing a BOATLOAD of information that good evals would give you.  I'm shocked the woman is continuing to take your big bucks and not making you get the evals.  Go do it.  You're going to get WAY more than a label, and you're going to get information on things you never even dreamed about.  You really, really need that information to target your teaching.  Evals were, for us, the step that OPENED EVERYTHING UP.  They explained all kinds of quirky things we hadn't had words for and allowed us to make radical changes with confidence that we were targeting the exact problem and that there were very good reasons for the changes.  Now, two years later, we're finally very happy with our situation.  The evals for us turned up things I never dreamed of as issues (processing speed, word recall, working memory, motor control, etc.), and I'm guessing they will for you too.  It's not just about the top label.  If it were, you needn't bother.

[merry gardens]

While it is taking your son a very long time to get through Barton with his tutor, is his reading improving?

It sounds like he may have memory troubles and perhaps more like eye problems, in addition to dyslexia. I agree with the suggestions for more evaluations, especially if you aren't sure how to proceed. But I also know that finding the right people to do those evaluations can be difficult.

My son's progress through Barton was also slow and he often forgot material and needed to repeat some lessons. In addition to Barton, I threw in the proverbial "kitchen sink" approach. We worked on working memory with various activities. We worked on writing and eyes together with Callirobics and a few other things.

I dragged my feet on the type of eye evaluation the Oh Elizabeth is discussing, but we did eye exercises. Eventually we went for the eye exams with a covd--and then a second one, because the first blamed all his reading struggles on his eyes when he had a documented history of remediation for phonemic awareness struggles. We eventually did do vision therapy with the second covd, who recognized he had both dyslexia and eye issues.

And we did Barton 5 times a week, working for short periods of time with lots and lots of review. You mentioned interest in trying to teach Barton yourself at home instead of continuing with the tutor. If you are up to it, I think more frequent but shorter lessons with lots of review might be worth a try.

[queen620]

Thanks for all the advice. I wish I had come and posted a few weeks ago when all this came to light.
It has been a very heavy burden. Between my 12 year old and 4 year old it has been a lot on my mind & plate. We got really bad news about my 4 year old and how he can't be placed in the school districts ASD classes without an official diagnosis. Which the school system won't repeat. So we are waiting on a referral. He saw a neurologist who merely ruled his issues weren't neurological (?) He had a EEG done--- it was only 20 minutes-- so I don't expect to get much info from that. So now we are waiting on another referral. Several places in my area the wait is upwards of a year to get a diagnosis. :(

I think I've decided we are going to forgo the reading tutor until I get an evaluation done. I'm am out of money until next month when we get our tax refund. Usually it is a nice amount. If that hold true this year, it should be enough to cover the evaluations out of pocket. What we were running into was finding someone who was in network on our insurance-- at least with getting my 4 year old possible ASD diagnosed. I think if we pay out of pocket we might have more options and can possible submit some with the insurance...maybe. I also don't have the $$ to pay the reading tutor and buy the barton level at the same time.

I've been learning a lot about Sensory Processing Disorder in an attempt to understand my 4 year old. The more I've learned about SPD I get confused which son I'm reading about. I think a good evaluation would give us a lot of answers and how to address his needs better.

[OneStepAtATime]

Thanks for all the advice. I wish I had come and posted a few weeks ago when all this came to light.
It has been a very heavy burden. Between my 12 year old and 4 year old it has been a lot on my mind & plate. We got really bad news about my 4 year old and how he can't be placed in the school districts ASD classes without an official diagnosis. Which the school system won't repeat. So we are waiting on a referral. He saw a neurologist who merely ruled his issues weren't neurological (?) He had a EEG done--- it was only 20 minutes-- so I don't expect to get much info from that. So now we are waiting on another referral. Several places in my area the wait is upwards of a year to get a diagnosis. :(

I think I've decided we are going to forgo the reading tutor until I get an evaluation done. I'm am out of money until next month when we get our tax refund. Usually it is a nice amount. If that hold true this year, it should be enough to cover the evaluations out of pocket. What we were running into was finding someone who was in network on our insurance-- at least with getting my 4 year old possible ASD diagnosed. I think if we pay out of pocket we might have more options and can possible submit some with the insurance...maybe. I also don't have the $$ to pay the reading tutor and buy the barton level at the same time.

I've been learning a lot about Sensory Processing Disorder in an attempt to understand my 4 year old. The more I've learned about SPD I get confused which son I'm reading about. I think a good evaluation would give us a lot of answers and how to address his needs better.

Big hugs. :grouphug:  I am so very sorry there is so much on your plate right now.  

 

Honestly, I don't see that you would need both a reading tutor AND your own Barton Levels, but I agree, with funds tight, just wait on buying Barton or continuing tutoring until you can get evals.  In the meantime, though, if there is any way you can get books on CD from the library for him to listen to so he is still being exposed to vocabulary and concepts, and maybe doing some reading and spelling practice for what he has already been exposed to with Barton, hopefully he won't lose much of the ground he has already painstakingly gained.  If the tutor is not able or is not willing to provide you with practice pages and other resources for him to continue working at home, then if you want to PM me I might have some suggestions....

 

Best wishes to you and your family.  Keep us informed.  You have friends here.

[queen620]

 In the meantime, though, if there is any way you can get books on CD from the library for him to listen to so he is still being exposed to vocabulary and concepts, and maybe doing some reading and spelling practice for what he has already been exposed to with Barton, hopefully he won't lose much of the ground he has already painstakingly gained.  If the tutor is not able or is not willing to provide you with practice pages and other resources for him to continue working at home, then if you want to PM me I might have some suggestions....
 
Best wishes to you and your family.  Keep us informed.  You have friends here.

As far as books on tape we use learning ally extensively. He is always.always.always. listening to a book on his iPod. So much so that it drives me crazy! If he has his earbuds in he is oblivious to what is going on around him. And with no earbuds I'm being forced to listen to a lot of half-books ;)

We have lots and lots of homework pages from the tutor as we've been just tossing them in the folder when we get more. So I will definitely not be quitting that until I can buy the level next month.

[OneStepAtATime]

As far as books on tape we use learning ally extensively. He is always.always.always. listening to a book on his iPod. So much so that it drives me crazy! If he has his earbuds in he is oblivious to what is going on around him. And with no earbuds I'm being forced to listen to a lot of half-books ;)

We have lots and lots of homework pages from the tutor as we've been just tossing them in the folder when we get more. So I will definitely not be quitting that until I can buy the level next month.

Sounds like you are pretty set for functioning sans reading tutor for a while.  

 

It also sounds like you are still thinking of purchasing Barton eventually.  I was thinking about someone jumping in to start tutoring from scratch with a higher level, instead of from the beginning, and I thought I should mention something.  Since you did not tutor him yourself through the lower three levels, there may be some weird hand gestures, and structure of presentation, etc. that you will have to get used to.  Watch the DVD a few times until you are comfortable with the presentation.  The lessons are supposed to go without a ton of dialog so hand gestures are used quite a bit.  He will (or should) already be trained in how to respond, etc.  You'll just need to practice a bit without him around before teaching the lessons.

 

Oh, an added benefit of ordering Level 4, it also comes with a specialized speller that also lets the student play spelling games, etc.  It is for helping with spelling words that do not follow any normal rule and are hard to teach as an exception.  That little machine is actually pretty cool.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed that only good things happen from here on out....

[Timberly]

.

[OneStepAtATime]

I was so excited to get my 9 y.o. ds's LD Diagnosis for many reasons. One of which was qualifying for what I mistakenly thought was a free subscrition to Learning Alley. My understanding of their website is that even with an "official diagnosis", their annual subscription is no longer free. Since they lost their federal funding, it now cost $119 for an annual subscription   Ugh!  I had not realized it was no longer free.  That is going to negatively impact quite a few....

I'm hoping to have that much money available next year... For now I'm thrilled with taking a gamble that Barton would be a good fit. Nothing has been a good fit for language arts before. But Barton is what I wish we'd started in K.

 

Have you done the student and tutor screenings yet?   When are you starting?  Or have you already?  Best wishes!

I think LIPS would help tons too, but again, no money available to find out.  Why is everything so expensive?

 

[Pen]

:Grouphug:

 

just a few thoughts to add to what else I saw above:

 

To use your travel time as wisely as possible for everyone, including yourself, whatever that may mean--recorded books for all, classical music, workbooks in the car etc.

 

Evaluation(s) when you can get them would be likely to help you make decisions.

 

Any possibility of there being scholarships to the private school that specializes in dyslexia? My understanding is there are only a few really excellent such schools in the country, but that if you have one of these excellent ones, and he fits it, and there were a way to do it, it could be wonderful for him...and maybe be a help to ease things up for time for the others as well.

 

I dealt with tutoring my son myself mainly with a program from http://www.highnoonbooks.com which goes less far up in levels than Barton, but is much less expensive (not why I chose it, but it did help), and which for my ds worked extremely well. However, I would like to say that we worked extremely intensively on reading,

 

I am starting to forget now, but I think it was either 2 hours or 2 and 1/2 hours Mon to Fri (in half hour at a time sessions) and half an hour Sat and Sun.  And we did not take off any time at all from the schedule, because doing so allowed too much slippage.

 

It can take a lot of time, practice, and time and practice to remediate reading (and still may never be the same as for someone without dyslexia). It took around a year for him to come up to grade level doing that, but if I had done less I do not think he would have made it, but just slower. I think it took that much time and intensity. And I think something I read (maybe Sally Shaywitz) it emphasized the intensity that is needed, and that the older the child gets the more time and intensity tends to be needed.  Your son may not be progressing because of how severe his dyslexia is, or other co-factors, or it may be that he needs more time and intensity.

 

From people I know doing Barton, I gather it is hard to do that much time and intensity because it tends to be exhausting, I have been told. I don't know if it is more or less exhausting than what we did. It was a marathon! At first I was giving in to his pleas that it was too much, but with what I think was Shaywitz, plus a reading teacher's advice, plus a physician's advice (which was something like to tie him to a chair if needed, but we did not do that :)) we went with a length of time that would equal a full language arts session in a ps plus a pull out for an extra half hour daily for reading time.

 

 

[FairProspects]

My understanding is that Learning Ally had a government grant which they lost to Bookshare and that is why they now charge a subscription fee. How is he getting access to Learning Ally with out a dx? Is it because the Barton tutor can get him access?

[OneStepAtATime]

 

 

To use your travel time as wisely as possible for everyone, including yourself, whatever that may mean--recorded books for all, classical music, workbooks in the car etc.

 

Wish we had done this all those years we were driving to and from school. ..

 

From people I know doing Barton, I gather it is hard to do that much time and intensity because it tends to be exhausting, I have been told. I don't know if it is more or less exhausting than what we did. It was a marathon! At first I was giving in to his pleas that it was too much, but with what I think was Shaywitz, plus a reading teacher's advice, plus a physician's advice (which was something like to tie him to a chair if needed, but we did not do that :)) we went with a length of time that would equal a full language arts session in a ps plus a pull out for an extra half hour daily for reading time.

 

Pen is right, Barton is hard to do for an hour or more.  Many kids wear out.  Some can do it, but many can't.  I can say that for my kids and a couple of families I know well that are using Barton,  once we stopped trying to make the lessons last an hour or more, and just moved to half hour sessions each day, sometimes even Saturday mornings, things actually worked much better, but that might not be true for everyone.  For our kids, though, the shorter sessions worked a lot better.  They began to internalize the lessons more quickly.  They didn't tire out and lose focus like they had been with the hour plus sessions.  Both are now making huge leaps in progress. DD (12 at the time) was reading at what amounted to a 2nd grade level at the beginning of 2013.  DS (9) wasn't even at that level.  Even 3 months ago they were both still struggling some.  After we finished Level 3 and spent a week reviewing again with games, etc. it just clicked.  DD read a nearly 500 page 7th grade level reader over Christmas in 5 days and has started on the second book in the series for fun.  DS is doing well, too, and was reading some pages out of an above grade level historical novel just a couple of days ago, but he has other issues that are slowing him down compared to DD and which cause him to wear out quickly.  I know we need additional assessments.  Just having a hard time finding reliable people to do them locally so we are seeking answers in other cities, but those are several hours away...

 

[Timberly]

.

[queen620]

How is he getting access to Learning Ally with out a dx? Is it because the Barton tutor can get him access?

Yes, his Barton tutor filed all the paperwork for him last year. Last year we
applied for a scholarship, but I don't know if I have to reapply or what when our subscription runs out next month. Even if I have to pay for it out of pocket it is worth EVERY penny. B/c it is a "family" membership we have been able to listen to books all the time for nearly every person in the house.

[OneStepAtATime]

He flunked the Barton screening. I called Barton and gave her his LD test results and she said to hire a LIPS tutor. I explained that my health, nor my calendar (1 hr drive each way to nearest tutor), nor my budget can afford LIPS, even if my mommy sense said it's what he needs. And he needs 15 minute sessions of Barton.

She said to redo the pre-test in a few days, when he's well rested, not stressed, not tired... and have him really focus on my lips

Ta da, he passed it on try #2.

We started Level/box one on Nov 9, 2013, both LD 9 y.o and 11 year old big brother (no LDs, learns anything easily, scores above grade average on standardized testing - except for spelling where he tests 3 years behind!).

These two boys have had vigorous homeschool phonics and spelling instructions since they were 4, their spelling doesn't reflect it.

Big sister did all the Hooked on Phonics" levels in a month, and then Abeka spelling thereafter. She won spelling bees from K on up to middle school. She tested into the public school gifted program (one class per grade for our entire state). I homeschooled her 7 yrs, public school 3 year, Private school 1 year, College full time at age 16.

Anyway, I began Barton Level/box 1 on 11/9/13. Ld ds is now on level two/box two, lesson 2.

Every time we begin new lesson, I think LD kid will never retain the new info. The new info of the week is "ck" "ch" " sh" and "th". How on earth is Barton going to get LD ds to remember the sounds that go to DIGRAPHS?!?!?!

But since I spent the $, watched the training DVDs and everything prior to this lesson has "stuck" solidly in his brain, I'm forging ahead.

If it doesn' work, I'll try to get money for LIPS, because I'm out of other ideas.

Both sons enjoy barton, but it does exhaust their brain mightily. We do Barton 5-7 hours a week. LD ds does it in 5-20 minute sessions.

His working memory and short term memory are in the 4th percentile. Processing speed and phonemic awareness are horrible (don't rember scores).

But his ability scores, vocab and algebraic reasoning are high, so he got 2e label.

Gifted athlete, no clue what coaches are saying.

Algebra - Yes

11-2= ? NO.

Composition (transcribed via mom) - scary good, grades above his age. Kid should make a living out of it.

Writing his ABCs - scary hard.

How can this be real? Such a smart kid. Once dry info is in his long term memory, he's got it solid. But to get it there takes way too many years of effort on his part.

Wow.  Must be a very exciting day to try teaching such a wide range of abilities even within one child.  More power to you, Mom!

 

As for Barton, at the beginning there were times when I was thinking there was NO WAY they were going to internalize all the rules.  At least for us, what helped was not rushing through the lessons. doing the extra lessons available when necessary, playing the Barton based games, doing every single one of the extra practice pages available on the website, and a lot of review after Level 2 and again after Level 3.  We reviewed before each post test, then went back and worked on the couple of areas they tripped up on in the post tests, then reviewed again after the post test.  

 

If you can afford them, the card games available through Spelling Success for Barton Level 2, 3, and 4 might be really helpful.  We didn't use any for Level 2 (didn't know about them), but we used two of the sets for Level 3 and it was a GREAT way to solidify and then review the rules, etc.  With one of the games, multiple people can play so all three of us play.  With the other game only two can play but I enjoy playing opposite each of the kids because it helps me to internalize the rules and the kids love that there are many opportunities for them to win without my dumbing down my own responses (there are strategies to winning).  I plan to pull the cards out on Monday and do another quick review, along with some practice pages from Level 3 before we start Level 4.  I want to get the contraction ones, too, but haven't ordered them yet.  They are usually about $12 for a deck.

[queen620]

I think LIPS would help tons too, but again, no money available to find out."
[/quote]
 

I don't know a lot about LIPS. His Barton method tutor suggestion LIPS at one
point, but the closest location is an hour & half a way. So it isn't feasible.


I guess what I've really been worried about is if I could really use the Barton
Method myself. I think from what I'm hearing it might be doable. I'm not so
worried about the time spent per day. To be honest stopping twice a week to go to the reading tutor is a HUGE interruption to our school days. The tutor is 30
minutes each way. By the time I load the 2 babies up and get over there it is
really a 2 1/2 --3 hour interruption to our day. Then throw in the gas spent to get there I feel guilty driving into town and not combining other errands. So
really it is huge time drain. I think when you factor that I'm spending nearly 5 hours a week going to and from the reading tutor & waiting around. I can just
"shift" that time to staying at home and doing the work.



What will I face starting out w/ level 4 vs level 1? To be really really honest, I don't want to back track and buy levels 1,2 or 3. That would be nearly $1,000 and still need to buy level 4.

[queen620]

I don't know if this will help add anymore pieces to the puzzle, but the 12 year old spent nearly a year in speech therapy when he was 5. He was a late talker, but once he talked, he talked a lot. It was
one of his preschool teachers who pointed out how garbled his speech was. When he finished ST he had mastered most sounds except th/sh/ch.

[PeterPan]

Not to be dumb, but if he needs LIPS, why didn't the tutor do it herself???  It's about $200 to buy the set, and Barton only wants you to use about half of it.  So it's not like this huge experience, considering what I assume you're paying her.  And the skills of LIPS are foundational.  Sorry, I'm just having a b&w moment.  Either he needs LIPS or he doesn't.  Barton said LIPS is hard to implement, but it's not rocket science.  The dialogues are incredibly well-done.

 

These programs are NOT rocket science.  I went to high school with a kid who now works for NASA on the mars programs.  THAT'S rocket science.  This is not.  You CAN do this stuff.  Jump in with both feet.  :)

[queen620]

 It's about $200 to buy the set, and Barton only wants you to use about half of it.    And the skills of LIPS are foundational.


I just checked out LIPS website. Is there another place to order from? Or do I need "training" to do it myself? Is this in place of Barton Method or alongside Barton?

My head is spinning with options. BUT for the first time in nearly a month I
think I have a plan of attack.
*Suspend meeting with tutor
*Keep using the tons of worksheets we have, until
*He gets eval done-- neuropshcologic AND
vision-COVD (located a Dr & will call Monday)
*After Eval take those results and "digest" them.
*Most likely buy Barton level 4 and carry on at home.


Ladies (I'm guessing by usernames!) ;)
Thank you so much for all the helpful insight. I can't tell you what a weight has been lifted. I've loved homeschooling for the last 9 years, but teaching my
kids to read has been the hardest part with each child. I've always felt like I was failing them and I must not be doing it right. I think that is why I was so content to see the reading tutor, b/c I just didn't trust myself with something
this important.

[FlyingMOm]

 

I've always felt like I was failing them and I must not be doing it right. I think that is why I was so content to see the reading tutor, b/c I just didn't trust myself with something
this important.

 

As someone who knows you personally, I can say that you are THE hardest working homeschool mom I know.   You are doing a GREAT job- just because it's hard doesn't mean you aren't doing it "right".    So glad to see all the great responses you've received above- I know it feels good to have a game plan!

[OneStepAtATime]

I think LIPS would help tons too, but again, no money available to find out."
[/quote]
 

I don't know a lot about LIPS. His Barton method tutor suggestion LIPS at one
point, but the closest location is an hour & half a way. So it isn't feasible.


I guess what I've really been worried about is if I could really use the Barton
Method myself. I think from what I'm hearing it might be doable. I'm not so
worried about the time spent per day. To be honest stopping twice a week to go to the reading tutor is a HUGE interruption to our school days. The tutor is 30
minutes each way. By the time I load the 2 babies up and get over there it is
really a 2 1/2 --3 hour interruption to our day. Then throw in the gas spent to get there I feel guilty driving into town and not combining other errands. So
really it is huge time drain. I think when you factor that I'm spending nearly 5 hours a week going to and from the reading tutor & waiting around. I can just
"shift" that time to staying at home and doing the work.



What will I face starting out w/ level 4 vs level 1? To be really really honest, I don't want to back track and buy levels 1,2 or 3. That would be nearly $1,000 and still need to buy level 4.

O.k. I know  this is confusing and stressful.  Let's start over.  

1.  Do you know if your son pass the student screening test for Barton?  If the tutor was asking about LiPS that makes me wonder if he may have failed section 3.  If he failed section 3, and he wasn't incredibly tired and/or stressed the day he took it, then he should have done LiPS first, BEFORE Barton.  LiPS takes the basic components of language and breaks it down even further than Barton.  If someone fails section 3 then Susan Barton recommends doing the first half (essentially) of LiPS first for remediation, then starting Barton (at Level 1).  

      My daughter breezed through all three sections.  My son did not make it through Section 3 and there was a definite pattern to the parts he wasn't functioning well with.  We went back and did the first part of LiPS (my mom trained herself with that system while I was training with Barton, then she tutored DS while I started DD on Barton).  Once DS was done with LiPS up through the part he was struggling with on the student screening, I readministered the Barton student screening and he passed the third section just fine so I started him on Barton.

 

2.  You can administer the student screening yourself.  It is free, it is accessible to the public on the Barton website, it is easy to administer, and it doesn't take very long.  If he passes all three sections, then maybe you don't need LiPS.  I am uncertain of the efficacy of the test now, though, since he has already done a lot of Barton.

 

3. You would need to do the tutor screening test, first, to be able to administer the student screening, but it is also easy to administer to yourself, and doesn't take very long and is free.  You would need to take the tutor screening test anyway, before you could tutor him in Barton, so giving yourself that test now might help you know if this is an option.  The Barton system is designed so that even another dyslexic can tutor someone IF they can pass the Tutor screening.  The screenings are not spelling or reading tests.  They deal with various aspects of sound discrimination, etc.

 

4.  Until you have evals, this is all kind of moot, but I think in your position I would go ahead and give myself the tutor screening so you know you can actually tutor in this system.  Then I would readminister (assuming it was administered in the first place) the student screening to your son.  Then, after evals (or maybe even before) I would contact Susan Barton, explain your situation and the results of the screenings and ask her what her advice would be at that point.  She is very approachable.  OhE and I have both been in contact with her.  She genuinely seems to want to help.

 

5.  Finally, you had asked if you needed to buy the early levels.  No, I don't see why, but having not done the earlier levels, you need some training in the system.  I wonder, would the tutor be willing to loan you the training disks for earlier levels just for you to watch one weekend?  So you can see how the system builds on itself from level to level and the processes you need in place to be an effective tutor?

     What you WILL need from earlier levels are the tiles.  However, if you have an I-Pad you could get the tile app for about $30 a level, instead of buying the physical tiles.  I think you need permission to purchase tiles for Levels that you have not purchased yourself, which is where contacting Susan Barton could be really, really helpful.  You wouldn't need to purchase Level 1 tiles, I don't think, but you would need the tiles from Level 2 and Level 3 and Level 4 (roughly $90 total).  I don't recommend the tile app for Level 1 and 2 because I think you need the real tiles for those levels, but starting with Level 3 the tile app works really pretty well....

 

I don't know if I have covered everything.  Sorry.  Trying to do too many things at once.  I will check back later.  Best wishes...

[PeterPan]

OneStep gave you a ton, so I'll just give you a link to the tutor screening and student screening.  http://www.bartonreading.com/bartonIntroSystem_Part01.html  

 

[OneStepAtATime]

OneStep gave you a ton, so I'll just give you a link to the tutor screening and student screening.  http://www.bartonreading.com/bartonIntroSystem_Part01.html

Thanks, OhE.  I should have done that.  Such a ditz.  Sorry!

[BlsdMama]

Can I emphasize get a full, real evaluation done by a competent professional? I can't even begin to explain to you how good this is to be the first step instead of the last straw if desperation.

We didn't realize Grandpa was dyslexic. We didn't realize Dad was dyslexic. (Oh, we knew there were some serious spelling issues b but the idea that it was dyslexia was totally off our radar.) We also didn't know dyslexia was hereditary.

DS (14) reads beautifully. He's moderately dyslexic presenting as mild. Why? Because he has an insane memory. Tests show he ""reads" at a twelfth grade and above level. Further testing shoes, for Phoenix, nonsense works, he spells and reads BELOW a fifth grade level. He has memorized everything. I would have NEVER picked up on this on my own. And when he starts to lag because he's dealing with unfamiliar territory I might have blamed a lack of effort. Evaluation? Necessity.

Second son? We knew something was up. Probably dyslexic but maybe something else? Had an evaluation done through the school. Their results? Lower than average cognitive ability. We decided to get a private evaluation done. Result? Completely normal IQ. Problem? Incredibly low working memory function and profoundly dyslexic. We NEEDED those evaluations. How do you get home if you don't know where your are? You have someone draw you a map. A map. That's what the evaluations were to us.

[zoobie]

For anyone who's interested in Learning Ally, it's on a group buy at homeschoolbuyerscoop for $69 instead of $119.

We've had it a few months, but my DD doesn't enjoy listening to it. The different styles of the volunteer readers are distracting or something. We should try more.

Good luck, OP. Sorry to be slightly off topic, but I thought I would mention the deal as several had commented on the expense.

[FairProspects]

For anyone who's interested in Learning Ally, it's on a group buy at homeschoolbuyerscoop for $69 instead of $119.

We've had it a few months, but my DD doesn't enjoy listening to it. The different styles of the volunteer readers are distracting or something. We should try more.

Good luck, OP. Sorry to be slightly off topic, but I thought I would mention the deal as several had commented on the expense.

 

This is only for NEW subscriptions though. If you have been using it or have already done this deal once you are out of luck. :(
 

[Julie of KY]

You have a lot on your plate. It sounds like you are doing a great job!

I use Barton at home and I think you could easily do this. You could back off on the reading tutor saving both money and time.

I agree that an evaluation for learning disabilities is very important as well as screening by a developmental optometrist for vision problems. While I think both are very important, I might start with the vision screening as if he needs vision therapy you might see a big improvement quickly in his ability to do schoolwork.

[talantine]

I know this post was from a while ago, but I imagine it is still relevent.  I stumbled upon it and I just wanted to add that my 10 year old son is dyslexic and apraxic.  He goes to a school specifically for language-based learning disabilities and it is fabulous.  My other children are homeschooled.

 

The tuition at is school is over $50,000 a year but we do not pay nearly that amount.  At these schools, there is a lot of financial aid available.  We are not poor, just a middle class family here in NY, and they have reduced the tuition to a managable amount for us.

 

 I absolutely believe that special needs can be taken care of at home, but sometimes a special needs private school is a great option.  My son is in a language arts class with 8 students and 2 teachers.  He has made fabulous progress and is so much more confident. 

 

If you at all think a school might be an option, visit it and talk to the admissions and financial aid people.  For us, it would mave been more expensive to hire a tutor twice a week than to send my son to one of the top schools for dyslexia in the country.  Don't look at the price first.  So many people don't apply when they see the big tuition number, but in reality it could cost much less.

 

Best to you,

Tammie

[lmrich]

I agree with the poster above. Ask the private school before you rule it out. I would also ask thr public school; I assume it is an option if two of the kids are there. Ask and see what they would do. Maybe nothing but at least you would know for sure.

Many, many, many hugs!