Now can we talk about history philosophies? :)

[Hunter]

Actually my son has pretty good idea about different eras. First he split time up to before automobiles and after automobiles. But he does know the difference between Colonial and Victorian due to the clothing differences, hair styles, toys etc. We plow through a lot of vintage books and I am shocked at home easily he can pin point of things happened before or after a certain time.

We are reading through a book about the history of the US. Right now we are focused on the First Americans. He knows that the ice age, crossing the land bridge was all before Columbus sailed to the New World. We watched Pocohontas last night for the first time and he was able to figure out for himself that Pocohontas' tribe was much newer than the First Americas. Because Jamestown colony was after Christopher Columbus. His name is James so the Jamestown colony registers with him. And then he asked me about how many years later the Pilgrima settled at Plymouth and the Boston Tea Party happened. So he is getting a basic understanding of things.

I think for him knowing what order things happened in helps a lot.

 

There is also a picture book we have read many times that illustrates the passage of time. And we visit many local historical sites when we can. He has seen pictures of our town and want it used to look like. I started telling him what things were like a long long time ago. But it was him that asked me point blank how many sunrises ago it was. So now we break it down like that.

I would keep using chronology with this child, right now. He is obviously inferring and categorizing things. That level of inference is VERY unusual in a child so young. Since he has this ability, I would make the most of it. He must be really fun to teach and learn alongside.

 

I have adult students that cannot do this. I try to assist them, by using a video and point out all the clothes and technology, and try to help them make connections and inferences, but...It's really hard for them, and work not fun. There is no joy in the discoveries. They have no desire to use this new tool of inferring about time.

 

I can get them excited about a single event sometimes, but all that connecting and inferring and looking for the big picture is not something that excites them.

[Korrale]

Yup I agree. The chronology really helps. My major in college was history so yes I love teaching him. We have lots of discussions. Honestly I forget most of the time what I have told him. Last night we were talking about canals while reading about The Hohokum. I wanted to make sure that he could tell me what a canal was and he started telling me about the canal system that runs from New York to a nearby town. We haven't been to that canal or really talked about it since he was 2!

[Alice]

I loved the idea of the 4 year cycle when I first read WTM. I feel like I had a horrible history education, partially due to my own lack of interest and partially due to poor teachers. I still like the idea overall, but we’ve modified it a bit and may modify it more. 

 

For my oldest, we did SOTW 1 and 2 for 1st and 2nd pretty much “by the book†using the AG and lots of extra read-alouds. About halfway into SOTW 3 it stopped working for me. I felt like the purely chronological approach was way too scattered. So I put it aside and started focusing on American History, using various resources. Then ds told me he missed SOTW. So we ended up doing American History and also reading SOTW 3 aloud without doing anything else with it. When he was in 4th grade my second son was going to be in 1st. I felt like SOTW 4 wasn’t great for a 1st grader but I wanted to keep them together (at least not in different time periods). So, I did a year of focus on US geography/state studies. That went along well with a long car trip we took in the SE United States. And my 4th grader and I did read SOTW 4 aloud but without really using much extra material. On some topics he was more interested and I’d look for literature to go-along with what the history was. 

 

This year we are doing Ancients with both boys. 2nd grader is using SOTW 1, for his first cycle. 5th grader is using History Odyssey but somewhat modified. And I’m changing the order of SOTW so we’re doing it more as geographical units rather than purely chronological. So we did Mesopotamia, then Egypt, then Africa, then China, etc. We’ll finish off with long (4-6 weeks each) units on Greece and Rome. So far it’s all working well. 

 

I’m not sure what we’ll do next year. My oldest really loves history, and I do think that’s in part to SOTW which he has loved. From an early age I assumed he would be a STEM kind of guy as he has an engineering kind of mind and loves science and always has. But in the last year or so I’ve realized that really he loves history as much. And Ancient History happens to be his favorite so right now it’s like interest led learning. :) 

 

I think the biggest thing is that the longer I homeschool the more I become less wed to any particular philosophy other than “what works best for this particular kidâ€. I think once we hit high school we’ll need to have more of a road-map of sorts but right now as long as they are developing strong SKILLS (writing, math, reading for knowledge, study habits) I feel like what we do in the content subjects (science, history, art, music) is less important. I don’t mean to say that they aren’t important. Often that’s where they use their skills and they bring the joy to learning but I’m not sure it matters that much if we cycle in 4 years or 6 years or decide to spend a year on WW II or stay in Ancient Rome for another year. 

[kiwik]

Is there a reason people don't slot their country's history into their world history routine? Or do they and just don't talk about it?

 

Or perhaps everyone else's history is so much more interesting than ours that they really *like* spending an entire year on it here and there...

Most of the people on this board are in the US and they usually add to SWBs recommendations and do proportionally more history on their own country. We haven't got to my country yet - earliest settlement is still 600 odd years away and since it was an oral culture until a few hundred years ago records are a bit sketchy. Our history is important to us but insignificant to nearly everyone else.

[Pen]

Actually my son has pretty good idea about different eras. First he split time up to before automobiles and after automobiles. But he does know the difference between Colonial and Victorian due to the clothing differences, hair styles, toys etc. We plow through a lot of vintage books and I am shocked at home easily he can pin point of things happened before or after a certain time.

We are reading through a book about the history of the US. Right now we are focused on the First Americans. He knows that the ice age, crossing the land bridge was all before Columbus sailed to the New World. We watched Pocohontas last night for the first time and he was able to figure out for himself that Pocohontas' tribe was much newer than the First Americas. Because Jamestown colony was after Christopher Columbus. His name is James so the Jamestown colony registers with him. And then he asked me about how many years later the Pilgrima settled at Plymouth and the Boston Tea Party happened. So he is getting a basic understanding of things.

I think for him knowing what order things happened in helps a lot.

 

There is also a picture book we have read many times that illustrates the passage of time. And we visit many local historical sites when we can. He has seen pictures of our town and want it used to look like. I started telling him what things were like a long long time ago. But it was him that asked me point blank how many sunrises ago it was. So now we break it down like that.

Wow!

 

Could you say what the picture book is ?

 

I think you son is probably unusually advanced in this ability! But also I think you have probably come up with a great way to teach this so that it makes it possible for him to do this--good job, Mom!

 

There also may be again an aspect of what is important to an individual, and for your son it may be that the sense of time (how many sunrises, and before and after automobiles, ideas for example) is not only advanced for him, but also something that strikes him as very important and what to him is of great interest, and perhaps a great strength along maybe with other aspects of sequencing and time related thinking.

 

 

.

[Korrale]

Wow!

 

Could you say what the picture book is ?

 

I think you son is probably unusually advanced in this ability! But also I think you have probably come up with a great way to teach this so that it makes it possible for him to do this--good job, Mom!

 

There also may be again an aspect of what is important to an individual, and for your son it may be that the sense of time (how many sunrises, and before and after automobiles, ideas for example) is not only advanced for him, but also something that strikes him as very important and what to him is of great interest, and perhaps a great strength along maybe with other aspects of sequencing and time related thinking.

 

 

.

Oh yes! I meant to add the book. It is called The House on Maple Street by Bonnie Pryor.

 

www.amazon.com/House-Maple-Street-Bonnie-Pryor/dp/0688120318/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389162583&sr=8-1&keywords=Bonnie+Pryor+maple

 

There are also Usborne books called Now and Then that are really good also.

[Amy M]

Well, if you're feeling philsophical, you might want to write down a personal philosophy of education. :) Here's mine, if it helps give you a starting place. Here's the excerpt I wrote on history. The first few lines refer more to philosophy, and the underlying points are more practical points that I personally wanted for our family.

 

History—I want to emphasize God’s sovereign hand throughout history, that it is He who “removes kings and sets up kings.†Daniel 2:21 Children should see His bedrock unchangeableness and faithfulness and develop a Biblical worldview through which they will view all events and philosophies.

• Learning world history chronologically, rather than just American history. I want to stress to the children early on about the big world we live in so they’re not self-centered or myopic Americans. (Charlotte Mason wrote about this as well as classical educators.)
• Using timelines (a Book of Centuries) to help the children gain a sense of their place in God’s plan and to make connections between what was happening in different places of the world that influenced cultures and events.
• Mapwork—again, to cement a sense of the bigness of the world. Americans should know more than just North America on the map.
• A mix of 2-3 “spines†or textbooks and other supplementary “living†books on the subject would be great. We want short, meaningful lessons from “living books,†not twaddle—dry, company-written textbooks, which can be the most boring books written. But I also do want a spine or two, written in living-book style, to be central to our studies throughout the year—to help keep us on track and lessen the potential for “gaps†in our education.
• Using narrations to test listening skills for elementary. Evaluations would be nice for 7th grade and higher.
• Integrating Socratic discussions (preferably with scripts or lots of help for the teacher) and writing on the rhetoric levels.
• I prefer strictly chronological history, but wouldn’t mind using a curriculum that arranged it more sequentially within geographic regions, still following the overall chronological cycle.
• I prefer a 4-year cycle repeated three times, as suggested in The Well-Trained Mind, in order to give the logic and rhetoric stages a full 4 years to interact with the material. But I’m not opposed to a 6-year cycle in elementary, and two 3-year cycles for 7-12 grades.
• I would like hands-on ideas; but this would not be a deal-breaker if it weren’t there.

 

So that's where I'm at right now in our homeschooling journey. I would think Americans should focus more on American history vs. English, if they want to focus on their own country. (in regards to your CM point) I would feel too rushed with my younger kids to try to get history in less than 4 years, but don't mind the idea of stretching it out further for elementary. And I'm not too concerned about retention, outside of trying to memorize VP's timeline.

[TeaCookiesBears]

This is a great thread and I found some really great ideas to use with dd8. For dd15 since I stared homeschooling her in middle school the WTM way of tying history and literature together is working for her and often sets her on a quest to find out more.

 

As for my dd8 this method is not working for her so far so, coming across this thread has really helped.

 

@maize - I like your view that history for younger kids should be fun and for familiarization.

 

@deerforest - I like your idea of wanting to inspire and love history this something I want dd8 to have as I do. And you are right my dd8 is not the least bit interested in dates or facts at this age either. I must admit I got to tied up with meeting state requirements that I lost sight of the true reason for learning history.

 

@farrar - your post also gave me something things to look at as well. I definitely want dd8 to get exposure and enjoyment from reading history. So putting off the history cycle until logic stage may work better. My only issue now is how do I go about implementing ideas in this thread to reality.

 

@ - Kevin'smom - thank you for posting the name of the book by E.H Gombrich. I think I will give that a try as sotw is not working right now.

[stripe]

I think I am having a history crisis.

 

I was reading Ray Raphael's book Founding Myths, and reading about how all those stories are totally fake, and how the worst offender in terms of embracing the invented narrative is Joy Hakim's History of US (which seems to be so roundly criticized by "traditionalists"), and the tendency to create a narrative and lift certain people up when that distorts what happens (i.e. life is not really a pat story), really disturbed my whole thinking on this. 

[Alte Veste Academy]

I think I am having a history crisis.

 

I was reading Ray Raphael's book Founding Myths, and reading about how all those stories are totally fake, and how the worst offender in terms of embracing the invented narrative is Joy Hakim's History of US (which seems to be so roundly criticized by "traditionalists"), and the tendency to create a narrative and lift certain people up when that distorts what happens (i.e. life is not really a pat story), really disturbed my whole thinking on this. 

 

I find that accusation fascinating, especially since James Loewen (author of Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong and Teaching What Really Happened: How to Avoid the Tyranny of Textbooks and Get Students Excited About Doing History) recommends Hakim. Her volumes have been well loved here. There is no way her books are the "worst offender" for romanticizing fake, storybook history. 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yeah, no way are they the worst.

 

If you want to blow your mind some more, read this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1389400216&sr=1-1&keywords=american+nations

[Alte Veste Academy]

And because I joined the thread but didn't answer the OP... :D

 

I consider the primary goal of history study in the early grades to be exposure and enjoyment. Later, after they are drawn in, my main goal is for them to see connections--between then and now, here and there, different disciplines, etc. 

 

I prefer history chronological, but not necessarily in four year cycles. We are doing 2 American, 4 world, 2 American, 4 world (with kids entering the cycle at different ages). I give more time to American history because I think people should know the history of their own country best and because it allows our world history study to keep American history in its proper perspective. So many people here supplement American history heavily when teaching the 4 year world history cycle, which could give the impression that American history is more important. While I do think my kids should know their own nation's history in greater detail, I want them to keep American history in perspective in the grand scheme of things. The beauty of doing American history separately is that the supplemental reading for our world history rotation is much more multicultural than it would be otherwise. I think Americans are woefully uneducated about the history (and current issues) of other countries. That's not what I want for my kids. It feels like the world is getting smaller every day. 

 

I do not think history actually needs to be taught chronologically, so long as relationships are pointed out and connections are made. 

 

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Oh Kristina, I  :001_wub: this post!  Can I just say, "Me too!"

[stripe]

I find that accusation fascinating, especially since James Loewen (author of Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong and Teaching What Really Happened: How to Avoid the Tyranny of Textbooks and Get Students Excited About Doing History) recommends Hakim. Her volumes have been well loved here. There is no way her books are the "worst offender" for romanticizing fake, storybook history. 

Oh, he praised her for her inclusion of African American and Native American perspectives (although he found her, like everyone else, sorely lacking in the multicultural perspectives on the Revolution), but that her discussion of, say, Paul Revere, was basically repeating the Longfellow poem as if it was fact.

[jar7709]

Oh, he praised her for her inclusion of African American and Native American perspectives (although he found her, like everyone else, sorely lacking in the multicultural perspectives on the Revolution), but that her discussion of, say, Paul Revere, was basically repeating the Longfellow poem as if it was fact.

 

We're in that volume of History of US right now.  :)  I think that's not quite a fair portrayal of  her discussion of Paul Revere etc.  She opens the chapter by quoting four lines of the poem, then goes on to say "here's more of the story..." and as far as I can tell from my other sources, goes on to be fairly accurate, if simplified, ie, there were other men doing the same thing and that Revere never made it as far as Concord. 

 

That said, it does appear that she may have gotten the chronology of events and the meaning of the lantern signals a little askew, so it's another example that no history text can be perfect, and why even at this young age I use a variety of sources with my kids. :)

[MotherOfBoys]

We are doing the chronological 4 yr history and bible story approach. My son loves the order of events to help him understand. We block schedule history one semester and then science so he is totally submerged in the era for a couple months at a time. 

 

With prayer, I think this approach will lead to some familiarity so when he does it again in high school he's not going in cold turkey.

[birchbark]

I have fallen out of love with the 4-yr history cycle for reasons I stated here. My plan at this point is to follow Mrs Twain's approach with a yearly overview with a couple selected areas to study in depth. I now have a way to use all the wonderful narrative histories I've been collecting!

 

My goal for younger students is familiarity with the stories and people and to inspire an interest in other cultures of time and place. As they become older, history becomes a key to understanding why things happen in our world, particularly in the areas of politics and religion. I am more interested in having my students understand the connections between events, than I am in dates and timelines. (Someone on the boards here mentioned a timeline they use, in which the impact of events is linked like rings in a pool. I like this idea.)

 

My early years hsing were very history-centric along the lines of WTM, MFW,and HoD. After the big Circe thread of 2012 I realized I was spending way too much time and effort on history. My emphasis shifted to Language arts and the sciences. I still consider history important, but it has taken a quieter seat.

[threedogfarm]

 

I also don't want to hear all about the big plans of students that are not willing to do the work it will take. I've gotten caught up in big plans one too many times. I was the only one working. I'll only work as hard as the student, now.

 

The bolded, underlined sentence is definitely worth remembering.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I do think there are limits to chronological history.  Shannon and I decided that we prefer to do a topical study, rather than jumping around from topic to topic and era to era in order to be strictly chronological.  The last book of SOTW was practically unreadable for her in the order written, because she found it frustratingly disconnected and was having a hard time connecting all the threads.  Once I organized our studies chronologically by topic, I was able to pick the chapters from SOTW and other sources and present them in a more logical (for our goals) order, and she's much happier. It does mean you sacrifice chronology to some extent:  We are studying WWII now, and then we will study the Cold War and follow the thread all the way to 1989.  We will then have to do some backtracking to fill in non-CW events, and we will spend some focused time on other regions (Africa, the Middle East, Asia) and survey 20th century events within the region chronologically.

 

Just a twist on chronological history, but for us it's the twist that has made all the difference.  It's also why I'm excited to start using the OUP books next year, because they are organized this way, and it really works for us.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Because birchbark mentioned the big Circe thread, which was a big revelation to many posters here when it was going on, I would like to add that I do not see history as more important than any other subject and we do not treat it as such. What the subject of history does have going for it is that all other disciplines are easily related to it. Science, music, art, geography...really almost everything can be pretty easily placed on a branch somewhere along the giant trunk of history. Even current events can be related back to events we have studied. Seeing those connections makes history seem enormous!

 

We use the ease of those connections to our benefit here, and it seems most HS curricula do the same. It is easy to see how history can come to feel like the most important subject, but it can be kept central for organization purposes without completely taking over. I do think many people let it take over their homeschool though. Balance can be hard to find. I still remember being perplexed as to why the Circe thread made such an impact on people. I think I even asked about it. Like birchbark said, many people realized at that time that their homeschool was becoming history centered, to the detriment of time spent on other subjects. I especially remember that many people linked all their literature to the history cycle. We link some literature with history (although we generally lean more heavily toward non-fiction supplements), but we never slowed down literature reading (at lunch, at bedtime, independent reading).

[Alte Veste Academy]

I do think there are limits to chronological history. Shannon and I decided that we prefer to do a topical study, rather than jumping around from topic to topic and era to era in order to be strictly chronological. The last book of SOTW was practically unreadable for her in the order written, because she found it frustratingly disconnected and was having a hard time connecting all the threads. Once I organized our studies chronologically by topic, I was able to pick the chapters from SOTW and other sources and present them in a more logical (for our goals) order, and she's much happier. It does mean you sacrifice chronology to some extent: We are studying WWII now, and then we will study the Cold War and follow the thread all the way to 1989. We will then have to do some backtracking to fill in non-CW events, and we will spend some focused time on other regions (Africa, the Middle East, Asia) and survey 20th century events within the region chronologically.

 

Just a twist on chronological history, but for us it's the twist that has made all the difference. It's also why I'm excited to start using the OUP books next year, because they are organized this way, and it really works for us.

Yes, I had a similar serendipitous discovery planning for my oldest's 1st-2nd grade years. I just could not find what I wanted in an early grades American history study. Because I never found the Holy Grail of one perfect spine, I stumbled onto the idea of doing history as a series of sequenced unit studies instead of strictly chronological.

 

We love the OUP books! I would be interested in hearing details of your SOTW4 era plans if you would like to share them. :D We are going to do that period next year and I have not found anything I love to replace the OUP volumes (the Pages from History books look good, and I am sure we will use them some, but they do not have the same feel to me). I do have K12's Human Odyssey volumes, but I would be very interested in what you used. DS will be in 6th next year.