Math - HELP! :)

[Entropymama]

I need some serious help deciding on a math curriculum. Here's my story: When I started homeschooling my oldest I used Saxon for math. Loved it. We used it for her up through 4th grade. By that time I also had a 2nd and 1st grader and math time was seriously eating up my day (I also had a 3 and 1 year old).

 

The next year, for DD1's 5th grade and DS1's 3rd grade year I switched them to Khan Academy with some speed drills and worksheets thrown in for good measure. I still did Saxon with DD2 who was then in 2nd grade.

 

It seemed to go well but by the end of the year I was frustrated with what looked like low retention and my older two were continually asking me to go back to teaching them.

 

This year (DD1 - 6th grade, DS1 - 4th grade, DD2 - 3rd grade) I went searching for a self-led math program. I found Math Mammoth and it seemed like a dream come true. I ordered the entire light blue series and started all three kids on them in September. It took me 3 weeks to realize that MM would not work for us. The older two asked me for instruction constantly and the 3rd grade book was all "new math" i.e. here are seven different ways to figure out 23 plus 45. 

 

So. I figured I'd have to go back to Saxon, which worked well, but it was October and I was out of curriculum money. Enter MEP. It was free, it was highly praised. We dove in. We love it. Problem is, I'm back to teaching three grades of math every day, plus everything else and wrangling a 5 and 3 year old, and I'm going insane. Originally I decided it was worth it to do all the instruction so that they would get the best education, but after 13 weeks of running myself ragged I'm not sure I can continue. 

 

Here's what I'm thinking. I could continue with MEP and have one of them each day do 45 minutes of Khan Academy, so that I'm only teaching 2 hours of math instead of three. That would mean taking longer to get through MEP, putting them 'behind'. Not real excited about that, but maybe it would be okay. (We already skip the 'review' lesson because we school 4 days per week.)

 

Or I switch it up completely again. I'm looking at Life of Fred for my sixth grader, who is not a math fan. My concern with that is twofold - will it prepare her for college math if she goes all the way through? (Considering she will probably never be a scientist or engineer.) Second, is it really self-led? Can I hand her the books and let her go? My third grader also struggles with math. We've been doing LoF Apples for fun every few days instead of MEP and she enjoys it. My concern is still whether it works as a stand alone program. My 4th grader loves math and is good at it. Not sure if LoF is good for mathy kids. 

 

If you've read this far, I commend you. Thanks for your time and in advance for any advice!!  

[Hunter]

Do you need free resources, or do you have some money to spend?

[Entropymama]

I could spend some money. 

[Tiramisu]

I have a bunch of thoughts. First, my advice would be to think carefully about all the curriculum you've used and try to decide which one worked best for your dc and you and why. (Saxon?) If there's one that really worked, you might want to use that with the understanding that math will take time. It wouldn't be nice for you to lose your sanity in the meanwhile, but eventually they should become more independent. Math is just one of those things you take out what you invest in it, generally.

 

It seems like you did Saxon up to fourth grade. Isn't that around the time that the format changes? It might be more independent now for your oldest than it was before. If she can be independent, I might be inclined to go back to Saxon for her now. With your little ones you could use anything that works, so you wouldn't have to buy new books for all of them. I've heard of kids jumping into Saxon 4/5 from other curricula and doing fine.

 

If you really don't want to go back to Saxon or your oldest couldn't be independent with it--considering your situation with a big family with more little ones coming up who will be starting school in the next few years--I would look at something like Math U See which is one chunk of weekly instruction with practice of the concept and review on the other days of the week. But I hate to recommend anything new and it would be a big investment.

 

If you LOVE MEP stick with it. That's supposed to get independent, too, at some point. Personally, I hate printing things out and find just having a bound book is a lot less stress with a big family.

 

There's a lot of talk on these boards about some curricula being great and some lousy, but a curriculum that you and your kids can get done day in and day out is better than one that you can't. So ignore what everyone says and think carefully about your experiences and do what will work for you and your family.

 

In any case, you have a lot of experience now. Choose something and stick with it. For your sixth grader, try to not jump around too much.

 

 

[Bree]

My friend had her son on MUS for years and switched him over to Fred in highschool. He loved it and has had no problem transitioning over to college math.

[kiana]

Doing 3 lessons a week of MEP would work *IF* you can school through the summer as well. I wouldn't cut down on a weekly basis if you're not going to. If you do cut down, it's even more important not to take breaks from math over any vacations.

 

Quite honestly, though, I would cut out pretty much everything else other than language arts if necessary to get math done and done right. I would also be very reluctant to switch programs now that you have found something that you like AND all your kids like. Their education will be just fine if the only things you do for history and science in elementary school consist of read-alouds (audiobooks if you have to) and nature study. What are your other two doing while you teach math to the one? Could they listen to an audiobook for history, do independent reading for literature, or something similar? Could you work in a rotating style where you deliver part of a lesson to one, have them work a few examples, then set them to independent work and move on to the next while the first works?

[MamaSprout]

Also, consider compacting Math Mammoth (you don't have to teach every lesson for how to do 23 + 5). It might work to alternate it with MEP on the "other days," so that you are not teaching everybody everyday.

 

Because you probably already have it printed out, you could go through and pull out the duplicate learning lessons, and make 2 days a week Math Mammoth days. You may need to drop your kids back a bit in MM. My kiddo that did parts of Math Mammoth 3/4 tested into Saxon 7/8. That one is using Singapore, and disliked MEP and MM with an unnatural intensity, so ymmv.

 

HTH

[ByGrace3]

Math takes time. Saxon takes forever and we didn't lay with it, but if you like it maybe consider doing back.

Math for the younger kids should take an hour. I spend about 30 minutes with my 1st grader and my 3rd grader spends about 45 minutes.

 

Sometimes my 3rd grader works alone sometimes she doesn't. Sometimes I just get her started and sometimes I have to help the whole time.

I think it's just how math is in the early years.

I do think Saxon (and math mammoth fwiw) get more independent as they get older. Do they have Saxon dive for that age?

[mom31257]

Have you looked at CLE? It is solid math and spiral like saxon. There are placement tests that you can order or print.

Math

http://clp.org/store/by_subject/4

Testing

http://clp.org/store/by_grade/21

[Tiramisu]

Have you looked at CLE? It is solid math and spiral like saxon. There are placement tests that you can order or print.

Math

http://clp.org/store/by_subject/4

Testing

http://clp.org/store/by_grade/21

 

We really like CLE. My dd still needed my presence a lot of the time but it's written with very brief, clear instructions, and for that reason, it's great for developing independence for the times that it's necessary--in a big family and when life happens especially. 

 

CLE sometimes gets dumped on on these boards for lacking conceptual problem solving but I studied math through calculus, including calculus-based classes for my economics major, and I learned things by going through CLE with my dd that I find very useful.

 

The light units are cheap.

[MotherOfBoys]

I would go back to saxon. Use what they like and what works. The grass is not always greener.

 

Saxon intermediate for your third and fourth graders should help. Text book instead of the scripted saxon. The sixth grader should be somewhat independent. Maybe try a test in a different curriculum to see if she's not got a concept she's supposed to have by now that is keeping her from being independent.

[mom31257]

We really like CLE. My dd still needed my presence a lot of the time but it's written with very brief, clear instructions, and for that reason, it's great for developing independence for the times that it's necessary--in a big family and when life happens especially. 

 

CLE sometimes gets dumped on on these boards for lacking conceptual problem solving but I studied math through calculus, including calculus-based classes for my economics major, and I learned things by going through CLE with my dd that I find very useful.

 

The light units are cheap.

 

Yes, it does. There are a lot of people who like it. I wasn't taught conceptual concepts the way there is a big push for today, and I have a math degree.  I don't use CLE with ds because he really likes BJU. It doesn't require a lot of time from me, but it might in some situations. 

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

I have 5 kids, too, and understand how busy you are.  But math is so important that I make the time to teach it well.  My youngest two students only work for about 30 minutes a day (however long the lesson takes) and I am with them the entire time, even while doing worksheets.  My oldest dd does math for 30-60 minutes a day.  Her program is set up that I read the text with her one day, then she works on a problem set for 2-4 days, depending on how long/complicated it is.  She is able to do the problems mostly by herself but she does have questions for me.  We use a lot of teacher intensive programs and I find it easier to work with the kids one at a time.  This means that the other kids are available to play with the younger kids.

[Ewe Mama]

Once we found CLE, we stopped looking. We found what works best for our family. It has plenty of conceptual math.

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with previous posters:

 

Summarizing from your posts:

- you know what kind of math instruction fits your students' learning style

- time is a concern

- finances are a concern

 

 

Sounds like it has NOT been a bad thing trying out other programs. You now have a clearer idea of what works/doesn't work for your DC, and why. MEP and CLE are traditional methods, similar to Saxon. Saxon is spiral-based, traditional method, very scripted in the early years, more abstract in presentation starting at 4th grade -- BUT has lots of helps (DIVE CDs; can be taken as an online course; Art Reed's Saxon video tutorials; etc.) Teaching Textbooks is also similar, and has all video-based lessons, which can be a great time-wise for parents.

 

In contrast, programs like Math Mammoth, Singapore, and Life of Fred are *drastically* different in presentation and way of thinking about math, and are all fairly teacher-intensive. Either these programs are not going to match up with your students' learning style, or would take a full year for both your students (and YOU as teacher) to get used to.

 

As previous posters have said, at this point (esp. for your 6th grader, so you don't end up with a shaky foundation or "gaps"), it's best to just stick to one program, and if time is the issue, focus your energies on finding ways to adjust the way you school in order to make time for the math program that works.

 

 

Time-wise:

As Lisa in the IP of MI said in her post, can you rotate through all the children one-on-one for math while the others entertain youngers, do chores, or do some work that is independent?

Can you spend 10 minutes on the lesson with the oldest student, and then have them go to the DIVE for additional help?

Can dad help with math in the evenings?

Know an older student you could hire cheap as a tutor?

What about a retired person who might love to volunteer time by tutoring?

 

 

Financially:

If you like the free MEP, then case closed! :)

If you want to go with Saxon, can you borrow from a friend (with DC in a different grade cycle from yours)?

How about buying used copies of older editions, which tend to go very cheaply? (Homeschool Classifieds)

Request donated materials from Book Samaritan?

 

 

[SnMomof7]

I'm hearing that you need something independent with ongoing review that you don't have to pull together. I have 5 myself and lots of littles, CLE was our answer. Independent for the most part, lots of review, it has worked incredibly well for us. I've stopped looking. My children are confident and content. Around $40/grade the first time through, $33 after that. Do get the flash cards for 1st and 2nd. Counting chart. The multiplication flash cards are skip worthy though, any deck will do.

[Entropymama]

Thanks everyone! 

 

To answer some suggestions: 

 

Right now I cycle through the three in the afternoon when the younger two are sleeping. I do an hour with each and they do reading and other independent work while I'm not with them. This is okay, except that it means we finish school around 4:30 and mama is burnt crispy. Especially when the toddlers wake up around 3:30. 

 

Dad can't help. :) He's tried but he is not a math guy. He could maybe do the 3rd grader but I'd have to explain it to him first. 

 

I'd love to do Saxon DIVE but my sixth grader just needs a lot of one on one. That's why we ditched Khan. 

 

I've heard good things about CLE but at this point I think you're all right - I know what works and it's Saxon and MEP. It just means a lot of intense time for me. 

 

Here's hoping they can be more independent soon!

[kolamum]

We kinda followed your pattern:  Saxon, for K-1, moved to self led for a few years, & then switched to TT which my strong math child wasn't challenged enough. Went back to Saxon, but found it ate up TOO much time in our day & left us with little time for other stuff. Moved to MUS & have been content since. :)