Disturbing: abc news story

[poppy]

After reading that second article...the indictment doesn't impress me. Ever hear the saying, "A grand jury would indict a ham sandwich."?

 

The judge certainly thought it was all handled less than ideally.

 

Taking apart the stop: The officer probably should have waited for backup before approaching the vehicle a second time, for his own safety. When backup arrived, they should have blocked the vehicle in so she couldn't drive off.

 

The timing of her driving off the first time suggests that she may have thought she was free to leave. If that is the case, then her leaving was not appropriately responded to. There's been no unedited audio of what was said. By that point, the officer was probably running her license and registration information. They could have MAILED her the ticket. Chasing her down was not the safest move the officer could have made.

 

His angry behavior was probably terrifying. In her position, I might well have taken off for a more populated space as well, even though of course running from the police isn't the best idea, and neither is arguing over a ticket.

 

It's possible she took off because she has a warrant somewhere and didn't want them to arrest or hassle her for it, but that would have turned up in the news by now.

 

As for the drug paraphernalia, they found two pipes in the car. Since they were found without any accompanying drugs, they'll have to be tested to prove they contain some trace of marijuana. If they don't, a pipe is a pipe and there's nothing inherent in it that makes it a marijuana pipe rather than a tobacco pipe. Even if it's got marijuana leaves carved on it--at least that's the case in AZ, and I doubt it'd be much different in NM.

 

Honestly, the fact that CPS has custody of her kids is likely to be the harder thing for her to extricate herself from at this point than the criminal charges. It may well involve getting the kids and the case transferred to TN CPS/juvenile court, if things aren't quickly dropped.

 

I'm glad to hear the teen was let go. Hopefully the experience WILL be educational and he'll have learned what NOT to do when pulled over.

I believe that evading police is a crime that needs to be addressed with more than a mailed ticket. The officer clearly asks her to shut off her engine. You seem to be suggesting that there is an unedited audio somewhere that suggests it went down some other way - but - I can't even think of what that may be.

 

What makes you think it was a marijuana pipe? There are several other drugs that employ pipes. Not the most critical part of the story unless maybe it has to do with her motive to evade.

[TCB]

If *my* 5 kids are ever in a car with an irrational woman who tries to evade police, I HOPE they smash windows and maybe even shoot tires b/c they absolutely are with a kidnapper. Or my mil, which is just as bad. :-p

 

If the police were to approach every situation with an "Eh, I'm sure they're fine" attitude, we'd all be screwed.

You seem to be implying that there are only 2 possible ways of dealing with a situation like this:

 

1. Smash the windows and shoot the tires.

 

2. Say Ëh, I'm sure they're fine"

 

My comment was that surely there was something between these 2 extremes that would have been more appropriate with children in the car.

[Miss Peregrine]

You seem to be implying that there are only 2 possible ways of dealing with a situation like this:

 

1. Smash the windows and shoot the tires.

 

2. Say Ëh, I'm sure they're fine"

 

My comment was that surely there was something between these 2 extremes that would have been more appropriate with children in the car.

How much time does the officer have to decide?

[La Texican]

I didn't google her name, and I didn't realize the story was a month old.

I was surprised to see this in the second link:

"After she was issued the citation, the officer wrote, Ferrell declined to pay the fine and proceeded to drive north in her Kia Sedona minivan."

 

I read in the comments section that she was refusing to pay on the spot and that's what started it. I thought that was made up, but there it is in black and white in that second linked article. I never get speeding tickets because I use cruise control, but I assumed that you were supposed to mail in the fine.

To me, it was scary because it was in the middle of nowhere and it got so aggressive. If there was that kind of corruption involved, that just makes it even scarier.

[Jean in Newcastle]

They had this on our local news tonight - with the video edited to show only the parts that put the police in the worst light. :glare:   It did not show all the things that she did leading up to their action.  

[Mergath]

I didn't google her name, and I didn't realize the story was a month old.

I was surprised to see this in the second link:

"After she was issued the citation, the officer wrote, Ferrell declined to pay the fine and proceeded to drive north in her Kia Sedona minivan."

 

I read in the comments section that she was refusing to pay on the spot and that's what started it. I thought that was made up, but there it is in black and white in that second linked article. I never get speeding tickets because I use cruise control, but I assumed that you were supposed to mail in the fine.

To me, it was scary because it was in the middle of nowhere and it got so aggressive. If there was that kind of corruption involved, that just makes it even scarier.

 

And what corruption would that be?

[La Texican]

"After she was issued the citation, the officer wrote, Ferrell declined to pay the fine and proceeded to drive north in her Kia Sedona minivan."

 

I read in the comments section that she was refusing to pay on the spot and that's what started it. I assumed that you were supposed to mail in the fine.

 

Unless I'm wrong and you're not supposed to mail in your traffic fines.

 

ETA: The quoted part was in the second link in this thread. I also read it in the comments section, but I originally thought they were making that part up.

[TCB]

How much time does the officer have to decide?

There's no denying it is a very difficult job. In the video I watched, they came across as angry more than scared, but, of course, it's impossible to know for sure just from a video.

[poppy]

There's no denying it is a very difficult job. In the video I watched, they came across as angry more than scared, but, of course, it's impossible to know for sure just from a video.

 

A police officer who is scared should not look scared, their role is to maintain control.

 

[TCB]

A police officer who is scared should not look scared, their role is to maintain control.

I realize that fear can appear to be anger and I'm sure they are trained to not show fear, however sometimes they have been known to get angry - no profession is perfect. Thank goodness that no one was hurt.

[BarbecueMom]

"After she was issued the citation, the officer wrote, Ferrell declined to pay the fine and proceeded to drive north in her Kia Sedona minivan."

 

I read in the comments section that she was refusing to pay on the spot and that's what started it. I assumed that you were supposed to mail in the fine.

 

Unless I'm wrong and you're not supposed to mail in your traffic fines.

 

ETA: The quoted part was in the second link in this thread. I also read it in the comments section, but I originally thought they were making that part up.

One of the towns near where I used to dispatch would actually bring out-of-town traffic violaters in to the station and make them pay their fines or bond before leaving. If they are from out of state, they may never pay the fine and a small town wouldn't extradite on a traffic warrant.

[Kathryn]

I didn't google her name, and I didn't realize the story was a month old.

I was surprised to see this in the second link:

"After she was issued the citation, the officer wrote, Ferrell declined to pay the fine and proceeded to drive north in her Kia Sedona minivan."

 

I read in the comments section that she was refusing to pay on the spot and that's what started it. I thought that was made up, but there it is in black and white in that second linked article. I never get speeding tickets because I use cruise control, but I assumed that you were supposed to mail in the fine.

To me, it was scary because it was in the middle of nowhere and it got so aggressive. If there was that kind of corruption involved, that just makes it even scarier.

She refused to pay OR sign the ticket is what I read. Not sure where I read what anymore. What corruption?

[Jean in Newcastle]

You have to sign the ticket with the box checked saying if you will pay it or if you will fight it in court.  She didn't sign.  That isn't corruption.  

[La Texican]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Refusing to pay means refusing to sign the ticket (which I guess you can still argue in court). Some comments were saying she was told to pay cash on the spot and refused, which I thought was nonsense. Then I read in the second article that she refused to pay. I guess that's how rumors get started.

[K&Rs Mom]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Refusing to pay means refusing to sign the ticket (which I guess you can still argue in court). Some comments were saying she was told to pay cash on the spot and refused, which I thought was nonsense. Then I read in the second article that she refused to pay. I guess that's how rumors get started.

 

 

In our county (don't know if it's the whole state) it's not uncommon for an officer to take a cash bond from an out of state driver.  They staple it to the ticket, which gets turned in to the court clerk (that was me many years ago), and is either applied to the fine or refunded to the driver if the ticket is overturned by a judge.  If someone doesn't have cash, the officer would staple their driver's license to the ticket, and they have to come up to the court the next day to get it back (and pay their bond at that time).

[ZooRho]

The mother was an idiot.  Other than the shooting at the tires, nothing was even remotely excessive by the officers. 

AMEN, I think the officer's mistake might have been not TAZZING THEM earlier.

[Ravin]

I believe that evading police is a crime that needs to be addressed with more than a mailed ticket. The officer clearly asks her to shut off her engine. You seem to be suggesting that there is an unedited audio somewhere that suggests it went down some other way - but - I can't even think of what that may be.

 

What makes you think it was a marijuana pipe? There are several other drugs that employ pipes. Not the most critical part of the story unless maybe it has to do with her motive to evade.

I said she might have believed she was free to leave the first time she pulled away. Not that she actually was. I suggested from the audio it wasn't clear to me. If all it was at that point was a traffic stop, it wasn't worth a chase, from a safety perspective. Obviously, it got the officer mad. The officer's extremely angry demeanor the second time he pulled her over was over the top (though certainly an understandably human reaction) and his approaching the vehicle at that point without backup not the safest move. His demeanor would have terrified me, too. Her second flight was clearly to somewhere populated, with cameras. At that point I'm guessing she was terrified of violent treatment of herself and her son, in front of her kids.

 

Let me be clear: her flight, both times, was not the smartest move. But the police did as much or more to allow escalation of the situation. Forcing entry to the car, but not positioning vehicles to block her in?

 

The later article about the indictment specified marijuana pipes. It just struck me as odd to charge paraphernalia by itself. I suppose if it smelled of mj, there's probable cause, but it'd take a lab test for trace drugs to prove up the charge in court, because a pipe is a pipe.

[SKL]

The first time, the cop told her to turn off her engine, and she drove off instead.  Is she arguing that she thought the cop said something else when he said turn off the engine?  I can think of no other reason for her to think driving off was a good idea.  At that point there was nothing to be afraid of unless she had a record that would cause him to detain her.  He had not asked her to get out of the car at that point; he didn't even go up to the driver's side window.  Can't really say she thought he was dangerous to her at that point.

 

As for the "angry" demeanor, I don't get the impression he is actually angry.  It seems to me that he was putting on the big-and-bad persona because he has been trained to do that when people resist/evade.  If he were really such a jerk by nature, he would not have been so calm prior to that point.  Possibly she did get scared of him at that point.  And I can understand her not wanting to be arrested and cuffed while traveling out of state with her kids.  I wouldn't, either.  But at that point it was pointless to resist the way she did.  And with two cop cars on the scene, she really couldn't argue that she thought they were all impersonators.

 

No matter what, driving off that second time was a very bad choice and the consequences should not surprise anyone.

[MyThreeSons]

The timing of her driving off the first time suggests that she may have thought she was free to leave. If that is the case, then her leaving was not appropriately responded to. There's been no unedited audio of what was said. By that point, the officer was probably running her license and registration information. They could have MAILED her the ticket. Chasing her down was not the safest move the officer could have made.

 

And along with the ticket, he would have had to mail her the vehicle registration and her driver's license. The officer typically takes those documents with him to his car while he runs the info and writes up the ticket. He clearly says, "I'll be right back", and tells her to turn off the engine. There is no way to interpret that as "free to leave". 

 

Last year, I was pulled over for speeding. The officer approached my vehicle on the right side. Not only did he take my license, but he asked for my son's license as well. (He was sitting in the front passenger seat.) To this day, I have no idea why he did that, and I briefly thought about questioning the need for that, but I just nodded to my son and he handed over his state ID, explaining that he doesn't have a license. We had nothing to hide, and I knew that co-operating with a good attitude was my best action. The officer was nice in return, and gave me reduced points and fine. 

[DragonFaerie]

Last year, I was pulled over for speeding. The officer approached my vehicle on the right side. Not only did he take my license, but he asked for my son's license as well. (He was sitting in the front passenger seat.) To this day, I have no idea why he did that, and I briefly thought about questioning the need for that, but I just nodded to my son and he handed over his state ID, explaining that he doesn't have a license. We had nothing to hide, and I knew that co-operating with a good attitude was my best action. The officer was nice in return, and gave me reduced points and fine. 

 

Not really anything to do with the topic, but your comment about him requesting your son's license reminded me.  When I was younger, my then boyfriend was pulled over, but the officer came around to my side (passenger) of the car.  He asked me to step out of the car, which I did.  He then asked me if I was in the car of my own free will and if I felt safe.  It was very strange and quite unnerving for me.  Turns out that they had had a report of a girl kidnapped in a car just like BF's.  They pulled us over and responded appropriately.  Afterward, I jokingly told my BF that he totally owed me for keeping him out of jail. LOL..

[Parrothead]

After reading that second article...the indictment doesn't impress me. Ever hear the saying, "A grand jury would indict a ham sandwich."?

 

The judge certainly thought it was all handled less than ideally.

 

Taking apart the stop: The officer probably should have waited for backup before approaching the vehicle a second time, for his own safety. When backup arrived, they should have blocked the vehicle in so she couldn't drive off.

 

The timing of her driving off the first time suggests that she may have thought she was free to leave. If that is the case, then her leaving was not appropriately responded to. There's been no unedited audio of what was said. By that point, the officer was probably running her license and registration information. They could have MAILED her the ticket. Chasing her down was not the safest move the officer could have made.

 

His angry behavior was probably terrifying. In her position, I might well have taken off for a more populated space as well, even though of course running from the police isn't the best idea, and neither is arguing over a ticket. 

 

It's possible she took off because she has a warrant somewhere and didn't want them to arrest or hassle her for it, but that would have turned up in the news by now.

 

As for the drug paraphernalia, they found two pipes in the car. Since they were found without any accompanying drugs, they'll have to be tested to prove they contain some trace of marijuana. If they don't, a pipe is a pipe and there's nothing inherent in it that makes it a marijuana pipe rather than a tobacco pipe. Even if it's got marijuana leaves carved on it--at least that's the case in AZ, and I doubt it'd be much different in NM. 

 

Honestly, the fact that CPS has custody of her kids is likely to be the harder thing for her to extricate herself from at this point than the criminal charges. It may well involve getting the kids and the case transferred to TN CPS/juvenile court, if things aren't quickly dropped.

 

I'm glad to hear the teen was let go. Hopefully the experience WILL be educational and he'll have learned what NOT to do when pulled over.

 

I don't know about this instance.  I've yet to read further. Back up is not guaranteed. Even if it was available the training is not such that one pulls one's patrol car in front of the stopped vehicle.  This is for officer safety.

 

As for the driving off, the officer had her license, registration and proof of insurance.  Legally she shouldn't be driving without those three things in the vehicle with her.  By driving off she compounded her criminal activity.

 

Don't ever leave a legitimate traffic stop until released by the officer.  If one feels unsafe during a traffic stop, call 911 from the cell phone.

[City Mouse]

I should probably stay out of this but I will speak up since Iive near where this happened.

 

The full 40 min recording has been released to the public. I watched it all this morning.

The woman was not expected to pay right then, she just had to choose weather she wanted to pay(mail in) the fine or go to magistrate court. That is the way it works in NM for any traffic ticket. Shen she refused to sign, the officer offered to arrange for her to see the judge right then.

 

Taos nm is actually a pretty small town with a police force of about 15 officers total that have differing days of and different shifts, so there may only have been 4 officers working in Taos at that time. She was actually pulled over by state police outside of Taos. In rural NM it is not unusual for police back up to be 15, 20, 30, or even 45 minutes away. If he had made some crazy lady wait on the side of the road for back up who knows what she might have done. She didn't want to get out of the car at the second stop because she knew that she was going to be arrested. The officer did get her out of the car and to the back of the van. When he asked her to turn around she ran back to the car to try to get in and presumably run again as she eventually did.

 

The video does show her driving in an unsafe manner. What it doesn't show you is that she was headed into the main part of Taos where that 4 lane divided road quickly becomes a small one lane in each direction road through historic Taos that is usually filled with stop and go traffic. I hate to think of the damage she could have caused then.

 

The only, only thing I saw on that video that was questionable as far as the officers behavior was the one who shot at the tires. Depending on state law and/or department rules, he may or may not have done anything wrong. I know that it Texas there are certain police departments who can shot at moving cars and other departments which prohibit shooting at moving cars.

 

I thought that what was shown on the video go the final stop actually showed a lot of restraint by the officers.

 

For what it is worth, there is a juvenile facility in Toas where I would assume the boy was taken. The juvenile laws in NM are actually very lenient, so I seriously doubt he will serve any time even if he is found guilty. There are kids here that do so much worse that are not locked up.